Hey I was Just wondering u put all this 23rd century stuff up but it doesn't do much the constitution class starship is a leutenant level which sucks due to the fact i got when i was a leutenant commander and now im a commander i was thinking can u make the ships more powerful depending on ur rank or even maybe make missions about where u stay in the past and due similiar mission because back in the 23rd century the federation was still at war with the klingons
It doesn't make much sense for a TOS conny to out-pace a TNG Galaxy - 23rd shouldn't beat 24th era ships - that's why they're weak in comparison and meant mostly for lower-level chars - as for the time travel thing... that's possible but this is the 24th era fedoration (not the 29th) so we're not allowed to fiddle around with the time line
Hey I was Just wondering u put all this 23rd century stuff up but it doesn't do much the constitution class starship is a leutenant level which sucks due to the fact i got when i was a leutenant commander and now im a commander i was thinking can u make the ships more powerful depending on ur rank or even maybe make missions about where u stay in the past and due similiar mission because back in the 23rd century the federation was still at war with the klingons
I've been a long time proponent of having a TOS Connie, which would still be useable at upper levels.
Not as powerful as a Tier 5, or as survivable as a Tier 5, but more useable than the current Tier 1 Config.
I suggested this in another thread:
Tier 3.5 "Retrofit" TOS Constitution Class Available at Captain rank and above
Based on these specs, you'd be able to engage in Normal Level PvE, maybe Advanced Level if your tactics were right, and it would not be "as powerful as a Sovereign" which is the issue most people who object, are concerned about.
Having it available at Captain means you'd use the T1 version through Commander (to prevent people using a Tier 3.5 ship while others are relegated to Tier 3) then you'd get this version at Captain, to play the rest of the way through.
In comparison to other Cruisers at Captain Rank and above:
Hull - Higher than Tier 3, Lower than Tier 4
Turn - Equivalent to Tier 3 Excelsior
Consoles - Higher than Tier 3, Lower than Tier 4
Bridge Officers - Equivalent to Tier 4
Weapons - Equivalent to Tier 3
Crew - Equivalent to Tier 3
Devices - Less than Tier 2
So obviously, based on these specs, the ship wouldn't be a match for Starfleet's latest and greatest, but it would still be a functional ship for those who want to adventure "old school" style, which is near impossible to do currently in a Tier 1 starship.
It doesn't make much sense for a TOS conny to out-pace a TNG Galaxy - 23rd shouldn't beat 24th era ships - that's why they're weak in comparison and meant mostly for lower-level chars - as for the time travel thing... that's possible but this is the 24th era fedoration (not the 29th) so we're not allowed to fiddle around with the time line
Who cares if it makes sense! Yesh. If I wanted stuff to make sense I'd play a single player game or watch a Star Trek series. Let people use what they want to use.
Who cares if it makes sense! Yesh. If I wanted stuff to make sense I'd play a single player game or watch a Star Trek series. Let people use what they want to use.
Canon purists ftl :-P This is one of those situations where really stuck up people ruin fun for others. This game could be so much more entertaining if y'all would calm down, take a deep breath and well I won't finish. But fact is, you can feel free to not use these ships. No one forces anyone to use a tier 5 anything. You don't like a ship don't buy it. Let those of us who wish to pay cryptic to make ships we want to use available do so.
So it's so very important that the 'non-canon lovers' are kept happy over the 'evil canon lovers' ? That's just as 'one sided' as you claim 'we' are
Seeing the NX class 91138 USS DEFIANT SCREWER TRIBBLE a Negh'Var or a Sovereign in combat should bother many people - I'm not a canon fanatic (I use the TOS and the NX despite their age and all my ships come armed with blue phasers) but T5 for those ships bothers me because it seems wrong for the NX to beat the defiant. The Raptor in use by the Klingons isn't a carbon copy - it's seen numerous refits and can be seen from its skin and scale. If the NX was introduced as a refit skin for the akira - gaining that classes scale and armament - I'd have no problem with it... but seeing a tiny NX class that's basically a carbon copy of the original... not so kewl
Still, seeing as the 'canon-lovers' are made up of such a 'small group' then I'm sure you'll have no problem getting the t5 NX passed
Canon purists ftl :-P This is one of those situations where really stuck up people ruin fun for others. This game could be so much more entertaining if y'all would calm down, take a deep breath and well I won't finish. But fact is, you can feel free to not use these ships. No one forces anyone to use a tier 5 anything. You don't like a ship don't buy it. Let those of us who wish to pay cryptic to make ships we want to use available do so.
I may not buy that ship at T5, but I still have to see it in pvp. You can cry about 'canon purists' all you want, but there's a difference between bending canon a little bit to make things work, and knocking canon to the ground, stomping on it, smashing it to tiny bits, setting it on fire and scattering its ashes to the wind. I also like this little thing called common sense, which apparently isn't as common as it should be.
I may not buy that ship at T5, but I still have to see it in pvp.
I have no problem with TOS constitutions being totally dis-allowed in PvP. A hull integrity "penalty" (i.e. Hull = 76% of excelsior) would also ensure that it would not appear in PvP.... and win.
1. Gives the people a way to have a TOS Connie at Vice Admiral, and have it be a fun ship to fly, unlike it's T1 counterpart, which is just plain painful to fly at Vice Admiral.
2. Pretty much ensures the ship won't be kicking the Sovereign's aft. Sure you might see someone enter PvP with it, but your immersion would be secure in just how quickly they would blow up against you.
Truly, a win-win. By finding the middle ground (in this case, in the middle between Tier 1 and Tier 5) not only can the people who want aa better TOS Connie at Vice Admiral have what they want, but the objectors concerns are addressed as well.
1. Gives the people a way to have a TOS Connie at Vice Admiral, and have it be a fun ship to fly, unlike it's T1 counterpart, which is just plain painful to fly at Vice Admiral.
2. Pretty much ensures the ship won't be kicking the Sovereign's aft. Sure you might see someone enter PvP with it, but your immersion would be secure in just how quickly they would blow up against you.
Truly, a win-win. By finding the middle ground (in this case, in the middle between Tier 1 and Tier 5) not only can the people who want aa better TOS Connie at Vice Admiral have what they want, but the objectors concerns are addressed as well.
But you're overlooking a VERY big thing:
A Mk X Shield Array is worth a different amount of shield HP depending on what Tier ship its loaded onto. Your specs are really good, but the ship would still need to be "catagorized" as a Tier 5 starship, so it could reap the rewards from Mk X + equipment just the same as other VA ones.
Extra:
The Excelsior-class Retrofit sees a +50% from its initial Hull Integrity HP. (or a + 13000 HP) Applying the same rules to the Constitution, you would get either 29250 HP or 32500 HP, depending on which rule you follow. I'd call it an even 30000 HP. (Same as the Intrepid-class Retro) So in PvP, there is no incentive to choose a T5 Constitution over another T5 cruiser, as you mentioned.
A Mk X Shield Array is worth a different amount of shield HP depending on what Tier ship its loaded onto. Your specs are really good, but the ship would still need to be "catagorized" as a Tier 5 starship, so it could reap the rewards from Mk X + equipment just the same as other VA ones.
Extra:
The Excelsior-class Retrofit sees a +50% from its initial Hull Integrity HP. (or a + 13000 HP) Applying the same rules to the Constitution, you would get either 29250 HP or 32500 HP, depending on which rule you follow. I'd call it an even 30000 HP. (Same as the Intrepid-class Retro) So in PvP, there is no incentive to choose a T5 Constitution over another T5 cruiser, as you mentioned.
Bing Bang Boom - solved
I agree. The power penalty applied to lower tier ships would need to be overcame.
I would naturally assume that part of that penalty would be handled through natural progression, because I think the penalty increases as you drop in Tier. Meaning a Tier 4 ship with MK X gear doesn't experience as big of a drop in power as a Tier 3, and a Tier 3 experiences less drop than a Tier 2.
But classifying the ship (purely on an internal level) as a Tier 5, would solve the problem, at which point, the stats take over as the primary reason to not take a T3.5 TOS Connie into PvP unless you have a death wish.
In another thread, I made the suggestion of creating a "Light Cruiser" categoy within Tier 5, and within that categoy, you could place Refits of the Tier 2 ships. (Nova, Excalibur, Sabre) The idea being create a Refit of those ships, give them Universal Bridge Officer slots, mid-range defensive stats, mid-range weapon category stats, and evenly distributed console slots and suddenly you have tailorable ships at Tier 5, which also brings some fan favorite ships up to the Vice Admiral level. They wouldn't be a Min/Max ship as the Sovereign or Luna or Prometheus ships are, but rather ships you could tailor to how you want to play, and allow you to fly that ship you really like.
That sort of idea could be applied to the TOS Connie as well, making it's T5 Retrofit more of a Light Cruiser than a true T5 cruiser, based on the stats I listed previously.
So it's so very important that the 'non-canon lovers' are kept happy over the 'evil canon lovers' ? That's just as 'one sided' as you claim 'we' are
Seeing the NX class 91138 USS DEFIANT SCREWER TRIBBLE a Negh'Var or a Sovereign in combat should bother many people - I'm not a canon fanatic (I use the TOS and the NX despite their age and all my ships come armed with blue phasers) but T5 for those ships bothers me because it seems wrong for the NX to beat the defiant. The Raptor in use by the Klingons isn't a carbon copy - it's seen numerous refits and can be seen from its skin and scale. If the NX was introduced as a refit skin for the akira - gaining that classes scale and armament - I'd have no problem with it... but seeing a tiny NX class that's basically a carbon copy of the original... not so kewl
Still, seeing as the 'canon-lovers' are made up of such a 'small group' then I'm sure you'll have no problem getting the t5 NX passed
I honestly believe y'all are a small and very rabid vocal minority.
So it's so very important that the 'non-canon lovers' are kept happy over the 'evil canon lovers' ? That's just as 'one sided' as you claim 'we' are
Seeing the NX class 91138 USS DEFIANT SCREWER TRIBBLE a Negh'Var or a Sovereign in combat should bother many people - I'm not a canon fanatic (I use the TOS and the NX despite their age and all my ships come armed with blue phasers) but T5 for those ships bothers me because it seems wrong for the NX to beat the defiant.
That would be extremely funny if it wasn't true. I agree it is wrong for a "tissue paper" ship to trounce a 24th century ship, but I will conceed that some people will not be satisfied. It is the "Old Guard vs. New Generation" dilemma. (Note, I don't call them The Next Generation, that title is reserved for those such as myelf who grew up on TNG, DS9 and Voyager and are now in their mid to late Twenties and early Thirties.)
Anyone have a ST Tech Manual laying around? I don't but somewhere in the back of my mind, I remember Worf saying what weapons the galaxy class Enterprise had on it, and I'll be willing to bet that the one in our game isn't anywhere near close to that.
This is... and was planned to be... a game that LOOKS like Star Trek, it's NOT balanced like it, or frigate class explorer ships would die instantly when attacked by 3 enemy frigates, and NO we are not immortal heroes, just SF officers, so that's not a good enough reason your frigate can kill a Battleship that should blow you in half in two shots. With these kinds of discrepancies, no other differences seem important to me, personally.
I honestly believe y'all are a small and very rabid vocal minority.
The "rabid fans" are a big reason as to why STO is still even around. People who care about canon are not a minority, as a great deal of the people who play this game play it because of the shows. I'm not particularly huge on the Star Trek universe ( I've only seen a a season or two of TNG, and that's it) but I sympathize with those that don't want the canon completely ****** over.
Really we're having the wrong argument :-P The ship tiers/ranks design for the game are fundamentally flawed. Canon wise, unless a ship gets destroyed or upgraded it the crews usually stuck with the exact same ship the whole time. It was as much a character as the actors. It'd be nice to pick your ship at the beginning and still be using it at max level. Sure you upgrade weapons and such along the way, and the health increases as you level to show you're more experienced at avoiding damage or whatever.
A lot of people love a certain ship, some of us are unlucky that our ship of chioce isnt' availablelin tier 5. They've expanded the selection thankfully.
I used a Defiant all the way up to VA until I got the new upgrade to defiant refit, and all through the whole stuck at RA 5 since feb. That's a tier 4 ship taking out borg cubes itself, really doesn't make sense either.
Star Trek has always been about how the crew overcame adversity and challanges they shouldn't be able to overcome :-P
And as for 23/22nd century ships at Tier 5 I could totally see starfleet using the old designs. The Federation is under siege, war on all sides, and the more they fight the more they start to get themselves as dirty as their opponents, ships like the non-refit Connie, and the NX class, harken back to the glory days of the Federation, when exploration and first contact were the name of the game. When humans were bright eyed with wonder at the stars... I could also see Kirk holograms spreading propaganda about the Federation just being as strong as it ever was too....
Comments
I've been a long time proponent of having a TOS Connie, which would still be useable at upper levels.
Not as powerful as a Tier 5, or as survivable as a Tier 5, but more useable than the current Tier 1 Config.
I suggested this in another thread:
Based on these specs, you'd be able to engage in Normal Level PvE, maybe Advanced Level if your tactics were right, and it would not be "as powerful as a Sovereign" which is the issue most people who object, are concerned about.
Having it available at Captain means you'd use the T1 version through Commander (to prevent people using a Tier 3.5 ship while others are relegated to Tier 3) then you'd get this version at Captain, to play the rest of the way through.
In comparison to other Cruisers at Captain Rank and above:
Hull - Higher than Tier 3, Lower than Tier 4
Turn - Equivalent to Tier 3 Excelsior
Consoles - Higher than Tier 3, Lower than Tier 4
Bridge Officers - Equivalent to Tier 4
Weapons - Equivalent to Tier 3
Crew - Equivalent to Tier 3
Devices - Less than Tier 2
So obviously, based on these specs, the ship wouldn't be a match for Starfleet's latest and greatest, but it would still be a functional ship for those who want to adventure "old school" style, which is near impossible to do currently in a Tier 1 starship.
Who cares if it makes sense! Yesh. If I wanted stuff to make sense I'd play a single player game or watch a Star Trek series. Let people use what they want to use.
I care. So do a lot of people.
Canon purists ftl :-P This is one of those situations where really stuck up people ruin fun for others. This game could be so much more entertaining if y'all would calm down, take a deep breath and well I won't finish. But fact is, you can feel free to not use these ships. No one forces anyone to use a tier 5 anything. You don't like a ship don't buy it. Let those of us who wish to pay cryptic to make ships we want to use available do so.
Seeing the NX class 91138 USS DEFIANT SCREWER TRIBBLE a Negh'Var or a Sovereign in combat should bother many people - I'm not a canon fanatic (I use the TOS and the NX despite their age and all my ships come armed with blue phasers) but T5 for those ships bothers me because it seems wrong for the NX to beat the defiant. The Raptor in use by the Klingons isn't a carbon copy - it's seen numerous refits and can be seen from its skin and scale. If the NX was introduced as a refit skin for the akira - gaining that classes scale and armament - I'd have no problem with it... but seeing a tiny NX class that's basically a carbon copy of the original... not so kewl
Still, seeing as the 'canon-lovers' are made up of such a 'small group' then I'm sure you'll have no problem getting the t5 NX passed
I may not buy that ship at T5, but I still have to see it in pvp. You can cry about 'canon purists' all you want, but there's a difference between bending canon a little bit to make things work, and knocking canon to the ground, stomping on it, smashing it to tiny bits, setting it on fire and scattering its ashes to the wind. I also like this little thing called common sense, which apparently isn't as common as it should be.
I have no problem with TOS constitutions being totally dis-allowed in PvP. A hull integrity "penalty" (i.e. Hull = 76% of excelsior) would also ensure that it would not appear in PvP.... and win.
1. Gives the people a way to have a TOS Connie at Vice Admiral, and have it be a fun ship to fly, unlike it's T1 counterpart, which is just plain painful to fly at Vice Admiral.
2. Pretty much ensures the ship won't be kicking the Sovereign's aft. Sure you might see someone enter PvP with it, but your immersion would be secure in just how quickly they would blow up against you.
Truly, a win-win. By finding the middle ground (in this case, in the middle between Tier 1 and Tier 5) not only can the people who want aa better TOS Connie at Vice Admiral have what they want, but the objectors concerns are addressed as well.
But you're overlooking a VERY big thing:
A Mk X Shield Array is worth a different amount of shield HP depending on what Tier ship its loaded onto. Your specs are really good, but the ship would still need to be "catagorized" as a Tier 5 starship, so it could reap the rewards from Mk X + equipment just the same as other VA ones.
Extra:
The Excelsior-class Retrofit sees a +50% from its initial Hull Integrity HP. (or a + 13000 HP) Applying the same rules to the Constitution, you would get either 29250 HP or 32500 HP, depending on which rule you follow. I'd call it an even 30000 HP. (Same as the Intrepid-class Retro) So in PvP, there is no incentive to choose a T5 Constitution over another T5 cruiser, as you mentioned.
Bing Bang Boom - solved
I agree. The power penalty applied to lower tier ships would need to be overcame.
I would naturally assume that part of that penalty would be handled through natural progression, because I think the penalty increases as you drop in Tier. Meaning a Tier 4 ship with MK X gear doesn't experience as big of a drop in power as a Tier 3, and a Tier 3 experiences less drop than a Tier 2.
But classifying the ship (purely on an internal level) as a Tier 5, would solve the problem, at which point, the stats take over as the primary reason to not take a T3.5 TOS Connie into PvP unless you have a death wish.
In another thread, I made the suggestion of creating a "Light Cruiser" categoy within Tier 5, and within that categoy, you could place Refits of the Tier 2 ships. (Nova, Excalibur, Sabre) The idea being create a Refit of those ships, give them Universal Bridge Officer slots, mid-range defensive stats, mid-range weapon category stats, and evenly distributed console slots and suddenly you have tailorable ships at Tier 5, which also brings some fan favorite ships up to the Vice Admiral level. They wouldn't be a Min/Max ship as the Sovereign or Luna or Prometheus ships are, but rather ships you could tailor to how you want to play, and allow you to fly that ship you really like.
That sort of idea could be applied to the TOS Connie as well, making it's T5 Retrofit more of a Light Cruiser than a true T5 cruiser, based on the stats I listed previously.
I honestly believe y'all are a small and very rabid vocal minority.
This is... and was planned to be... a game that LOOKS like Star Trek, it's NOT balanced like it, or frigate class explorer ships would die instantly when attacked by 3 enemy frigates, and NO we are not immortal heroes, just SF officers, so that's not a good enough reason your frigate can kill a Battleship that should blow you in half in two shots. With these kinds of discrepancies, no other differences seem important to me, personally.
The "rabid fans" are a big reason as to why STO is still even around. People who care about canon are not a minority, as a great deal of the people who play this game play it because of the shows. I'm not particularly huge on the Star Trek universe ( I've only seen a a season or two of TNG, and that's it) but I sympathize with those that don't want the canon completely ****** over.
See, this is a lot more reasonable and compromising then just demanding that all old ships are as powerful as end tier ships.
A lot of people love a certain ship, some of us are unlucky that our ship of chioce isnt' availablelin tier 5. They've expanded the selection thankfully.
I used a Defiant all the way up to VA until I got the new upgrade to defiant refit, and all through the whole stuck at RA 5 since feb. That's a tier 4 ship taking out borg cubes itself, really doesn't make sense either.
Star Trek has always been about how the crew overcame adversity and challanges they shouldn't be able to overcome :-P
And as for 23/22nd century ships at Tier 5 I could totally see starfleet using the old designs. The Federation is under siege, war on all sides, and the more they fight the more they start to get themselves as dirty as their opponents, ships like the non-refit Connie, and the NX class, harken back to the glory days of the Federation, when exploration and first contact were the name of the game. When humans were bright eyed with wonder at the stars... I could also see Kirk holograms spreading propaganda about the Federation just being as strong as it ever was too....