Sorry guys, if you've ever read any of my previous posts regarding the KDF's state in the game I've always defended the Klink players as opposed to Feds (Even though I mainly a Fed player myself). I'm not asking for Klingons to be nerfed, I'm not asking for Feds to have a carrier or battle cloak, what I'm asking for is for something to defend against Klinks in pvp. The reason why I dont want Feds to have carriers or battle cloak is because I think it would take away reasons to play a Klink.
However, FvK is becoming very lame for the Feds. Before it was understandable but now with the new carriers it opens up new tactics for the KDF that the Feds cannot defend against. I know people will come on here and talk about how stupid Feds are at pvp, and that we don't have tactics and that was a good reason before, when you guys just made us sweat instead of completing obliterating us in every single match. Do you really think it's a tactic thing? If so, what's this brilliant secret strategy that you know of that Feds could use against the KDF?
Even with the carriers, for a while I was denying that you just had a much more advantage but I've been in several FvK matches where we did have a good team and a good strategy and we still got completely owned by KDF with maybe 4 or 5 kills.
I know there's going to be at least one person to come on here and say "Well, I just did 20 matches and the Feds won one of them!" That is not a good example and doesn't help your arguement. 1 in 20?! And I'd be willing to bet that it was a VERY close match too. On top of these characters the Klinks are finally getting the chang BoP, awesome for them!
But guess what? That's just one more ship that can't be defended against.
I've narrowed the problem down to one solution, one thing that I think could bring the Feds back up to somewhat of a balance with Klinks - Give us our cloak seeking torpedo and make it a tac ENSIGN ability.
I'm only half serious about the last part of my request because I understand that it might be too powerful of an ability for ensign, but I suggest it because the currect ensign tac abilities are useless, in my opinion anyways. This ability should be allowed to both Klingons and Feds, so KDF can't say "Awe, Feds get everything!"
The reason why I think the problem evolves around this is because every time my team mates and I get a BoP's shields down it flies off and cloak and then all the escorts Fed side get hit by carriers and the BoPs fly in and help finish them off. It's a flawless strategy, there's no way escorts would be able to pull that off, therefore, escorts are the weakest link in pvp. So I say instead of giving us battle cloak, instead of giving us carriers, let us get at least a cloak seeking torpedo.
I'm starting to feel that Klink players are in a way a minority that pulls the race card every time they don't get what they want (please don't take that statement the wrong way - It's not intended to be racist, just making a point). Every time Klingons get something with rediculous power and Feds say something about it we get the whole "Well you guys have all the content, ships, costumes, etc." which is true! It's a very good point but that just means Klingons should also get THOSE things, not ships that throw PvP completely off balance.
and yes, spawning tons of ships is better than any new ship Feds have ever gotten. Our saucer sep, cloak, etc. is pretty useless compared to being able to fire cloaked or spawn dozens of ships at once.
No, all the other threads are suggesting Feds get carriers, I'm stating that pvp can be balanced without giving us carriers or anything that makes the Klingon faction unique.
No, all the other threads are suggesting Feds get carriers, I'm stating that pvp can be balanced without giving us carriers or anything that makes the Klingon faction unique.
There is nothing wrong with PVP! Storm even said it as well. The problem is the player. The only people that think pvp is broke are the people that can't seem to win because they just haven't figured out how to do it. Look I flew into arena last night with 4 Carriers on my team... We got mopped and it wasn't even a close match. If the pvp system is so broke and in favor of Klinks or Carriers how did they win? was it my team? was it our strategy? was it my build? exactly...
Dude... if this is simply a lengthy discussion about the Klinks having an unfair advantage in pvp then I disagree, Fed has always sucked. They're disorganized unless they have some form of team speak going on to coordinate attacks.
If this is a discussion about the Fed's having a carrier and people won't play Klinks because of it, your waaaayyyy off. People won't play Klinks because of the lack of PvE content that desperately needs to be added.
I feel that the arguments really shouldn't be focused on PvP Klink content right now, it really should be focused on PvE content and the fact that they really need some more story PvE.
What?
We finally get some love and the whole sky falls in?
If you wish to learn about defeating carriers then find one of the many threads on it and learn.
How about a phaser spread. it could fire a burst of low power phaser beams in an arc around the front of the fed ship. If it hits, it should decloak the klingon. It oculd drain phaser power just like beam overload does. That way the klingons will need to think about their strategic positon in relation to the fed ships when cloaking,
Dude... if this is simply a lengthy discussion about the Klinks having an unfair advantage in pvp then I disagree, Fed has always sucked. They're disorganized unless they have some form of team speak going on to coordinate attacks.
If this is a discussion about the Fed's having a carrier and people won't play Klinks because of it, your waaaayyyy off. People won't play Klinks because of the lack of PvE content that desperately needs to be added.
I feel that the arguments really shouldn't be focused on PvP Klink content right now, it really should be focused on PvE content and the fact that they really need some more story PvE.
I honestly couldn't agree with you more, I do think Klingons should get more content and I was honestly kinda angry that they had to pay for the new cruiser in the c-store - But I guess it's somewhat understandable, havent played it myself.
All I'm saying is Klingons have more tools to winning PvP and like you said, I think they should focus more on the PvE part of the KDF. It seems like Feds have to work twice as hard to win a match.
@Godsrage, you have a good point in that Feds are usually disorganized, but I have been a part of a lot of groups that did go in organized with a plan and still got obliterated. Feds shouldn't have to work 3 times as hard just to win an occasional match. I'd be willing to bet that the same group that beat you were just as surprised as you were that they won like that.
I disagree with your statements about Carrier fighting, mainly because I just built a Nebula for Carrier hunting, and it works, I control the spawn mobs, and my teammates take care of the Carrier, and the BoP can't do a thing about if my team can watch my back properly.
However..
I have been, and continue to be, a strong proponent of the idea that tactics can and must be part the proper progression of an arms race. Instead of seeking a new technology, one must always consider altering the way one goes about waging the battle. But then, sometimes, new Technology is the reasonable answer.
As such, I agree with your conclusion regarding the cloak seeking torpedo, and I propose the following statistics:
Seeking Torpedo I, Lt Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does no damage, is as fast as a Photon Torpedo, but "wanders" as it seeks the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo II, Lt.Com. Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo III, Com. Tactical ability, launches two non-targetable seeking torpedoes that do the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, and will not hit friendly cloaked ships, the target ship decloaks and cannot cloak again for 5 seconds. Can be trained by Tactical Captains with 9 ranks in Starship Weapon Systems Performance.
Sorry guys, if you've ever read any of my previous posts regarding the KDF's state in the game I've always defended the Klink players as opposed to Feds (Even though I mainly a Fed player myself). I'm not asking for Klingons to be nerfed, I'm not asking for Feds to have a carrier or battle cloak, what I'm asking for is for something to defend against Klinks in pvp. The reason why I dont want Feds to have carriers or battle cloak is because I think it would take away reasons to play a Klink.
However, FvK is becoming very lame for the Feds. Before it was understandable but now with the new carriers it opens up new tactics for the KDF that the Feds cannot defend against. I know people will come on here and talk about how stupid Feds are at pvp, and that we don't have tactics and that was a good reason before, when you guys just made us sweat instead of completing obliterating us in every single match. Do you really think it's a tactic thing? If so, what's this brilliant secret strategy that you know of that Feds could use against the KDF?
Even with the carriers, for a while I was denying that you just had a much more advantage but I've been in several FvK matches where we did have a good team and a good strategy and we still got completely owned by KDF with maybe 4 or 5 kills.
I know there's going to be at least one person to come on here and say "Well, I just did 20 matches and the Feds won one of them!" That is not a good example and doesn't help your arguement. 1 in 20?! And I'd be willing to bet that it was a VERY close match too. On top of these characters the Klinks are finally getting the chang BoP, awesome for them!
But guess what? That's just one more ship that can't be defended against.
I've narrowed the problem down to one solution, one thing that I think could bring the Feds back up to somewhat of a balance with Klinks - Give us our cloak seeking torpedo and make it a tac ENSIGN ability.
I'm only half serious about the last part of my request because I understand that it might be too powerful of an ability for ensign, but I suggest it because the currect ensign tac abilities are useless, in my opinion anyways. This ability should be allowed to both Klingons and Feds, so KDF can't say "Awe, Feds get everything!"
The reason why I think the problem evolves around this is because every time my team mates and I get a BoP's shields down it flies off and cloak and then all the escorts Fed side get hit by carriers and the BoPs fly in and help finish them off. It's a flawless strategy, there's no way escorts would be able to pull that off, therefore, escorts are the weakest link in pvp. So I say instead of giving us battle cloak, instead of giving us carriers, let us get at least a cloak seeking torpedo.
I'm starting to feel that Klink players are in a way a minority that pulls the race card every time they don't get what they want (please don't take that statement the wrong way - It's not intended to be racist, just making a point). Every time Klingons get something with rediculous power and Feds say something about it we get the whole "Well you guys have all the content, ships, costumes, etc." which is true! It's a very good point but that just means Klingons should also get THOSE things, not ships that throw PvP completely off balance.
and yes, spawning tons of ships is better than any new ship Feds have ever gotten. Our saucer sep, cloak, etc. is pretty useless compared to being able to fire cloaked or spawn dozens of ships at once.
I agree completely with what has been said here, granted the Klingon's need A LOT and by A LOT I mean A MASSIVE amount of new content so they can level easier but that content shouldn't be added in the fact of extremely over powered ships that throw the technical curve way in favor of the ridge heads. Federation ships extremely inferior in this game to there Klingon counterparts in almost every aspect save for we have slightly better hull power.
There is nothing wrong with PVP! Storm even said it as well. The problem is the player. The only people that think pvp is broke are the people that can't seem to win because they just haven't figured out how to do it. Look I flew into arena last night with 4 Carriers on my team... We got mopped and it wasn't even a close match. If the pvp system is so broke and in favor of Klinks or Carriers how did they win? was it my team? was it our strategy? was it my build? exactly...
GM's say a lot, but it doesn't mean they are correct, that's why the players are here not just to pay for the game but to play it and test it out, when I'd say close to 85 to 90% of PvP matches are won by the Klingon's then there needs to be asked why. The biggest reason I'd say why is the Cloaking devise and the lack of ways to get Klingon's visible. Yes yes yes, we have these other nifty abilities with there extremely short ranges, the best way we can find you is for you to battle cloak in combat and that way we have an idea where to do it and hope you were dumb enough to cloak with in 5km and pray we get lucky and nab you with one of those, otherwise theirs no way.
Now back to the OP, my opinion that a Stealth Seeking Torpedo is along the right path, but I like to go something that would be more practical, extend the range of the Stealth Detection abilities and extend there effectiveness. That would be a good way, wouldn't give the Feds a free shot on the Klingons cause a stealth hunting torpedo seems kinda silly and was only explained away in the fact that the Bird of Prey that torpedo found had left a exhaust trail to put it mildly. My opinion is to make the stealth detection abilities practical. No more of this 5km stuff where a Klingon Pilot only needs to sit 5.1km away at minimum to be totally undetectable.
As such, I agree with your conclusion regarding the cloak seeking torpedo, and I propose the following statistics:
Seeking Torpedo I, Lt Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does no damage, is as fast as a Photon Torpedo, but "wanders" as it seeks the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo II, Lt.Com. Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo III, Com. Tactical ability, launches two non-targetable seeking torpedoes that do the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, and will not hit friendly cloaked ships, the target ship decloaks and cannot cloak again for 5 seconds. Can be trained by Tactical Captains with 9 ranks in Starship Weapon Systems Performance.
Sorry, I disagree with a special Torpedo. But another thought occurred to me.
What if the Boarding Party ability were modified so there was a chance of the boarding party sneaking to the cloaking device and stealing/disabling it. The result would be the Cloak ability going on a cooldown for a period of time.
1) That would give a tactical advange briefly to the Feds.
2) That's how James T. Kirk would do it.
I agree completely with what has been said here, granted the Klingon's need A LOT and by A LOT I mean A MASSIVE amount of new content so they can level easier but that content shouldn't be added in the fact of extremely over powered ships that throw the technical curve way in favor of the ridge heads. Federation ships extremely inferior in this game to there Klingon counterparts in almost every aspect save for we have slightly better hull power.
GM's say a lot, but it doesn't mean they are correct, that's why the players are here not just to pay for the game but to play it and test it out, when I'd say close to 85 to 90% of PvP matches are won by the Klingon's then there needs to be asked why. The biggest reason I'd say why is the Cloaking devise and the lack of ways to get Klingon's visible. Yes yes yes, we have these other nifty abilities with there extremely short ranges, the best way we can find you is for you to battle cloak in combat and that way we have an idea where to do it and hope you were dumb enough to cloak with in 5km and pray we get lucky and nab you with one of those, otherwise theirs no way.
Now back to the OP, my opinion that a Stealth Seeking Torpedo is along the right path, but I like to go something that would be more practical, extend the range of the Stealth Detection abilities and extend there effectiveness. That would be a good way, wouldn't give the Feds a free shot on the Klingons cause a stealth hunting torpedo seems kinda silly and was only explained away in the fact that the Bird of Prey that torpedo found had left a exhaust trail to put it mildly. My opinion is to make the stealth detection abilities practical. No more of this 5km stuff where a Klingon Pilot only needs to sit 5.1km away at minimum to be totally undetectable.
Agreed
or
We could use better targetting systems than the KDF since they have a TRIBBLE load of NPCs helping them. Add in some extra hull strength to our cruisers and escorts as well since we have slower manuvering than klink ships (which reminds me, why does a neghvar match a galaxy class in shields and hull but out manuver a galaxy class starship?)
Needless to say I was hoping that the balance wouldve been restored by now in space PvP arena but i guess since even GMs are some how under the impression the ships are balanced, the feds are just going to have to live with the fact that we got the short end of the stick in the space arena department.
No, all the other threads are suggesting Feds get carriers, I'm stating that pvp can be balanced without giving us carriers or anything that makes the Klingon faction unique.
Comments
Pop it and Lock it!
There is nothing wrong with PVP! Storm even said it as well. The problem is the player. The only people that think pvp is broke are the people that can't seem to win because they just haven't figured out how to do it. Look I flew into arena last night with 4 Carriers on my team... We got mopped and it wasn't even a close match. If the pvp system is so broke and in favor of Klinks or Carriers how did they win? was it my team? was it our strategy? was it my build? exactly...
If this is a discussion about the Fed's having a carrier and people won't play Klinks because of it, your waaaayyyy off. People won't play Klinks because of the lack of PvE content that desperately needs to be added.
I feel that the arguments really shouldn't be focused on PvP Klink content right now, it really should be focused on PvE content and the fact that they really need some more story PvE.
We finally get some love and the whole sky falls in?
If you wish to learn about defeating carriers then find one of the many threads on it and learn.
I honestly couldn't agree with you more, I do think Klingons should get more content and I was honestly kinda angry that they had to pay for the new cruiser in the c-store - But I guess it's somewhat understandable, havent played it myself.
All I'm saying is Klingons have more tools to winning PvP and like you said, I think they should focus more on the PvE part of the KDF. It seems like Feds have to work twice as hard to win a match.
@Godsrage, you have a good point in that Feds are usually disorganized, but I have been a part of a lot of groups that did go in organized with a plan and still got obliterated. Feds shouldn't have to work 3 times as hard just to win an occasional match. I'd be willing to bet that the same group that beat you were just as surprised as you were that they won like that.
However..
I have been, and continue to be, a strong proponent of the idea that tactics can and must be part the proper progression of an arms race. Instead of seeking a new technology, one must always consider altering the way one goes about waging the battle. But then, sometimes, new Technology is the reasonable answer.
As such, I agree with your conclusion regarding the cloak seeking torpedo, and I propose the following statistics:
Seeking Torpedo I, Lt Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does no damage, is as fast as a Photon Torpedo, but "wanders" as it seeks the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo II, Lt.Com. Tactical ability, launches one targetable (can be shot down mid-flight) seeking torpedo that does the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, can, and will, sometimes target and hit friendly cloaked ships.
Seeking Torpedo III, Com. Tactical ability, launches two non-targetable seeking torpedoes that do the same damage as whatever torpedo you have equipped, and is just as fast, goes directly to the target, and will not hit friendly cloaked ships, the target ship decloaks and cannot cloak again for 5 seconds. Can be trained by Tactical Captains with 9 ranks in Starship Weapon Systems Performance.
I agree completely with what has been said here, granted the Klingon's need A LOT and by A LOT I mean A MASSIVE amount of new content so they can level easier but that content shouldn't be added in the fact of extremely over powered ships that throw the technical curve way in favor of the ridge heads. Federation ships extremely inferior in this game to there Klingon counterparts in almost every aspect save for we have slightly better hull power.
GM's say a lot, but it doesn't mean they are correct, that's why the players are here not just to pay for the game but to play it and test it out, when I'd say close to 85 to 90% of PvP matches are won by the Klingon's then there needs to be asked why. The biggest reason I'd say why is the Cloaking devise and the lack of ways to get Klingon's visible. Yes yes yes, we have these other nifty abilities with there extremely short ranges, the best way we can find you is for you to battle cloak in combat and that way we have an idea where to do it and hope you were dumb enough to cloak with in 5km and pray we get lucky and nab you with one of those, otherwise theirs no way.
Now back to the OP, my opinion that a Stealth Seeking Torpedo is along the right path, but I like to go something that would be more practical, extend the range of the Stealth Detection abilities and extend there effectiveness. That would be a good way, wouldn't give the Feds a free shot on the Klingons cause a stealth hunting torpedo seems kinda silly and was only explained away in the fact that the Bird of Prey that torpedo found had left a exhaust trail to put it mildly. My opinion is to make the stealth detection abilities practical. No more of this 5km stuff where a Klingon Pilot only needs to sit 5.1km away at minimum to be totally undetectable.
Sorry, I disagree with a special Torpedo. But another thought occurred to me.
What if the Boarding Party ability were modified so there was a chance of the boarding party sneaking to the cloaking device and stealing/disabling it. The result would be the Cloak ability going on a cooldown for a period of time.
1) That would give a tactical advange briefly to the Feds.
2) That's how James T. Kirk would do it.
Just a thought.
>>> The Undiscovered Country <<<
*coughs*
Imagine looking at them minute by minute, day by day, year after year.
It's no wonder they are an angry race.
Agreed
or
We could use better targetting systems than the KDF since they have a TRIBBLE load of NPCs helping them. Add in some extra hull strength to our cruisers and escorts as well since we have slower manuvering than klink ships (which reminds me, why does a neghvar match a galaxy class in shields and hull but out manuver a galaxy class starship?)
Needless to say I was hoping that the balance wouldve been restored by now in space PvP arena but i guess since even GMs are some how under the impression the ships are balanced, the feds are just going to have to live with the fact that we got the short end of the stick in the space arena department.
What's your build for taking on these carriers?
Also, have you tried turning it off and on again?