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Are Cruisers going to be not over powered any time soon?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
As much as I like playing in my Cruiser on my on captain it really ruins my escorts and BoPs. They're ridiculously over powered.

Me in my cruiser:
Kill kill kill, never die ever. I can have like four enemies on me and still not die.

Me in Escort or BoP:
Go guns blazing, hope you kill something (which will just likely be another Escort or BoP). Then be targetted because you're ridiculously easy to kill. Your DPS is slower than Cruisers can heal (good Cruiser Captains). Especially Cruiser teams which just heal each other to infinity.




The main problem is ridiculous regeneration and hull healing that has no diminishing returns. You can blow holes in their hull and they'll be gone within seconds.

Reduce most healing abilities. Give them diminishing returns (big diminishing returns). Do the same for shield regeneration abilities (not Regenerative Shields which already suck) but to a lesser extent. Increase shield HP a bit for all ships (so that battles can still take more than a few seconds, just massively lessen healing).
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Methinks, this would have reprecussions amongst the pvp community.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Duh, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking PvP. I hope it would have repercussions in the PvP community.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think cruisers are fine. There should be a vessel in game which is extremely difficult to destroy, yet cannot actually kill anything itself (wihout epic crits and team /assists).

    I know on the Fed side, where pugs abound, people play their cruisers wether tac/sci/eng captains simply because PvP is too frustrating with the frail escorts and science vessels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Well you think badly then. I'm always right. Trust me.


    Cruisers should of course be harder to kill. However this is just insane. A decent team with multiple cruisers and the ability to use teamwork will prevail every time. A team of full cruisers will pwn anything. Cruisers that focus heal are literally unkillable. You can sick 4 escorts on a good cruiser captain and with focus healing they'll never die.

    Cruisers don't have terrible firepower either. They'll burn down any escorts sooner than later. It's not like they can't kill Escorts, they can easily. My cruiser kills escorts like nothing. My escorts die to cruisers like nothing. I am for escorts and BoPs because their firepower does not make their glass hulls worth it. They're easy to kill and easy to recover from.

    It's like this:

    Escort:
    B offenses.
    F defenses.

    Cruiser:
    C+ offenses.
    A+++++++ defenses.


    Now, this is all much more noticeable outside of fighting PUGs. Team vs team it'll basically be the side with the most cruisers that win if the amount of skill on each team isn't wildly different.

    Take away all this ridiculous healing and Cruisers would still be good. They'd just be possible to freakin' kill. XP
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Couldn't care less about PvP. Keep your nerf mongering to yourselves. I like my Cruiser like it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Couldn't care less? That phrase does not state how much you care. Maybe you care a LOT. Maybe it's the most important issue on your mind and you couldn't possibly care less about it because it's THAT important to you.

    Yes, I think this is how things are. I thank you for your support.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Well you think badly then. I'm always right. Trust me.


    Cruisers should of course be harder to kill. However this is just insane. A decent team with multiple cruisers and the ability to use teamwork will prevail every time. A team of full cruisers will pwn anything. Cruisers that focus heal are literally unkillable. You can sick 4 escorts on a good cruiser captain and with focus healing they'll never die.

    Cruisers don't have terrible firepower either. They'll burn down any escorts sooner than later. It's not like they can't kill Escorts, they can easily. My cruiser kills escorts like nothing. My escorts die to cruisers like nothing. I am for escorts and BoPs because their firepower does not make their glass hulls worth it. They're easy to kill and easy to recover from.

    It's like this:

    Escort:
    B offenses.
    F defenses.

    Cruiser:
    C+ offenses.
    A+++++++ defenses.


    Now, this is all much more noticeable outside of fighting PUGs. Team vs team it'll basically be the side with the most cruisers that win if the amount of skill on each team isn't wildly different.

    Take away all this ridiculous healing and Cruisers would still be good. They'd just be possible to freakin' kill. XP

    Cruisers overpowered? Underpowered in turning, beam weapons strength (beam weakening after each shot), front and aft torpedos only and nothing side to side, sluggishness in responses and handling, alot of engineer NPC slots and consoles and not much left for sciene and tactical, just leaves the shielding.

    Great shield strength indeed unless your facing that darn borg cube that sucks your shields up, then one toredo by the Ker'rat PVP enemy and your history.

    Oh and you have just 6 + too many behind the A :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Now now... we can't have every ship overpowered... You say cruisers but others say carriers. You can't have both so just pick one. Carriers or Cruisers. :p






    Sarcasm aside, I think cruisers are fine the way are.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    Now now... we can't have every ship overpowered... You say cruisers but others say carriers. You can't have both so just pick one. Carriers or Cruisers. :p






    Sarcasm aside, I think cruisers are fine the way are.

    I just realized that I subconsciously refer to you when I read your forum handle as Atomic Fireball for some reason:D

    Is that what FB stands for?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Sigh, making adjustments to normal gameplay purely from a PvP perspective is a terrible thing to do in STO. PvP is a miniscule part of the game; an afterthought. Cruisers are fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cruisers are almost fine in 1v1 or battles without too much healing. They're ridiculous when you get multiple cruisers together focus healing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Still. PvP is not STOs focus nor should it be. Therefore, the game isn't really balanced around the playstyle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    See, this is where I remember why most of the people here are face palm worthy. The assumption that you can't balance for both is a stupid assumption to make. Some games do it fine. While you can't get it perfect you can get it a heck of a lot better than it is now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cruisers are fine. L2P the other classes properly
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Couldn't care less? That phrase does not state how much you care. Maybe you care a LOT. Maybe it's the most important issue on your mind and you couldn't possibly care less about it because it's THAT important to you.

    Yes, I think this is how things are. I thank you for your support.

    I've seen a person lose credibility in their argument in many ways on here, however kudos to you for doing it in one of the silliest ways yet.

    Since you've decided to switch the discussion from cruisers to the meaning of commonly used phrases, I can only assume you have since decided your initial argument was unfounded and now agree that cruisers are just fine as they are.

    Thank you for illustrating why your comments should not be taken seriously. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    See, this is where I remember why most of the people here are face palm worthy. The assumption that you can't balance for both is a stupid assumption to make. Some games do it fine. While you can't get it perfect you can get it a heck of a lot better than it is now.

    You're not going to garner much for your cause if you are going to insult anyone who disagrees with you. While simultaneous balance of both styles is "possible", it requires planning to execute properly. Obviously, this isn't high on the Devs agenda but if you could see past your nose you would have realized that. Maybe you should go back to EvE or whatever game you came from.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    vincire wrote: »
    Still. PvP is not STOs focus nor should it be. Therefore, the game isn't really balanced around the playstyle.

    But isn't Startrek Online a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game?

    Do you really think it's fair that in a fleet action or when teaming up for a Cluster exploration or a new daily episode or in an STF is it right that those using Cruisers are best off, simply because they can't be killed by the enemy anyway and rake in decent damage?

    Or do you just not care because you don't team up anyway or play at so low difficulties that it doesn't matter anyway what you fly? But then why worry about balance changes all that much? Do you fear that at some point, you might actually be challenged in space combat?

    Balanced ships are in everyone's interest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The fact is I've got people who don't PvP as the main people against this. I'm talking PvP. PvP some, specifically with a team with escorts and science ships against a team with tons of cruisers who focus heal. Or be the cruiser team. You can't lose when you're a team with lots of cruisers who focus heal unless the other team does it too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Go cry nerf all you want, i hope no one lisnt to you.
    ¿Esocrt are B on offensive? Yes, sure.. you are doing something wrong then. If you want to kill a tank, then use a Scien ship.
    Tank kill DPS
    DPS kill Scien
    Scien kill Tank
    You want to be able to kill tank and Scien rigth? You want to be god!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    But isn't Startrek Online a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game?

    Do you really think it's fair that in a fleet action or when teaming up for a Cluster exploration or a new daily episode or in an STF is it right that those using Cruisers are best off, simply because they can't be killed by the enemy anyway and rake in decent damage?

    Or do you just not care because you don't team up anyway or play at so low difficulties that it doesn't matter anyway what you fly? But then why worry about balance changes all that much? Do you fear that at some point, you might actually be challenged in space combat?

    Balanced ships are in everyone's interest.

    I didn't say that. I said making balance changes based from a PVP perspective in a game based almost entirely on PvE isn't the where the Developers need to put their focus because the implementation of each are far removed from each other. Try reading the thread.

    Where did all the indirect personal attacks come from anyway? PvP'ers are such a touchy sensitive bunch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The fact is I've got people who don't PvP as the main people against this. I'm talking PvP. PvP some, specifically with a team with escorts and science ships against a team with tons of cruisers who focus heal. Or be the cruiser team. You can't lose when you're a team with lots of cruisers who focus heal unless the other team does it too.

    I see a whole lot of whining from you Para. I think you should quit while your behind.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cruisers in PvP, teamed together focus healing is by far the best strategy in the game. Focus firing with escorts won't even beat that unless you use 10x the teamwork that is usually possible (like all 4 or so decloaking, firing on the same shields at the same time which requires a lot more teamwork than just focus healing).

    Saying this game is meant for PvE is irrelevant. I'm talking about a problem in PvP. Where the devs should focus their efforts is another issue. I'm talking specifically and only about a balance issue in PvP. Saying "No, I'd rather have something else" or "I want something else" is not a matter in the discussion. It's another subject such as having a discussion about Medical Marijuana and having the against it argument being "I'd rather have my guns!"

    Plus, I don't buy that Cryptic couldn't do a bit of both (focus on PvE with some PvP rebalancing not guns and marijiuana ;P). I think you underestimate Cryptic.

    vincire wrote: »
    You're not going to garner much for your cause if you are going to insult anyone who disagrees with you.

    Face palming in response to other people is an emotional response not an insult. Get that straight at least.




    I see a whole lot of whining from you Para. I think you should quit while your behind.

    It's debate. But judging by your posts you have no ability to do it.
    Cruisers are fine. L2P the other classes properly
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cruisers aren't broken, your escort is. Focus on fixing that instead IMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I've played Cruisers, Science Ships and Escorts and I can say that cruisers are "easy mode" compared to the rest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Again, the insults aren't adding to your credibility. They just make you appear incapable of a compelling argument.

    Nerfing Cruisers soley based on PvP is probably not going to happen because in PvE, they are right where they need to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The fact is I've got people who don't PvP as the main people against this. I'm talking PvP. PvP some, specifically with a team with escorts and science ships against a team with tons of cruisers who focus heal. Or be the cruiser team. You can't lose when you're a team with lots of cruisers who focus heal unless the other team does it too.

    Maybe it requires an attitude adjustment on the players end? I'm a Fed VA Eng Cruiser jockey. What I see is a failure in the roles department. The perfect team is two Cruisers, two Escorts, and one Science ship. Hey, Escort jockies, you're supposed to go after their escorts. Let me worry about their Cruisers/Carriers. You do your job and keep those talented/annoying (depending on whose side you're on) Run and Cloak Birds of Prey off my six and I'll do my job of killing the Cruisers.

    After you've dealt with the Birds of Prey, then jump on the Cruisers. It's right there in your ship's name. Escort. Now go escort.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    vincire wrote: »
    I didn't say that. I said making balance changes based from a PVP perspective in a game based almost entirely on PvE isn't the where the Developers need to put their focus because the implementation of each are far removed from each other. Try reading the thread.
    There are many types of balance one can talk about. PvP in Startrek Online is team-based. If you group up in PvE, it's naturally also team-based.
    It is important that every member in a team has a distinct role and can contribute something valuable - ideally in a way that you want to cover all 3 ship classes and all 3 career types in a team.
    That's what we want to achieve with the balance between the classes and it is true both in PvE and PvP.

    So PvP and PvE balance are actually not that different from each other as some people think. If you look at it from a team balance perspective, you can cover both PvP and PvE. It won't cover the "special case" for PvP of 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 perhaps, but balance doesn't have to be absolute on all areas, and the expected team sizes in PvP start at 3 usually (Arena and Capture & Hold at least).
    Where did all the indirect personal attacks come from anyway? PvP'ers are such a touchy sensitive bunch.
    Doesn'T PvP not stand for Poster vs Poster? :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cruisers in PvP, teamed together focus healing is by far the best strategy in the game. Focus firing with escorts won't even beat that unless you use 10x the teamwork that is usually possible (like all 4 or so decloaking, firing on the same shields at the same time which requires a lot more teamwork than just focus healing).

    Saying this game is meant for PvE is irrelevant. I'm talking about a problem in PvP. Where the devs should focus their efforts is another issue. I'm talking specifically and only about a balance issue in PvP. Saying "No, I'd rather have something else" or "I want something else" is not a matter in the discussion. It's another subject such as having a discussion about Medical Marijuana and having the against it argument being "I'd rather have my guns!"

    Plus, I don't buy that Cryptic couldn't do a bit of both (focus on PvE with some PvP rebalancing not guns and marijiuana ;P). I think you underestimate Cryptic.




    Face palming in response to other people is an emotional response not an insult. Get that straight at least.







    It's debate. But judging by your posts you have no ability to do it.

    Your opinion is baseless. Your point is that 5 cruisers is unstoppable. 5 carriers are unstoppable. 5 escorts are unstoppable. Your just can't play properly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    There's way to much flaming happening in here guys.

    Thread closed.
This discussion has been closed.