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Adding a listing fee for the exchange

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Cryptic is in the development stage in adding a listing fee on the exchange. That most likely means when people hear about this; prices on the exchange are going to start going up. People will need to make as much as possible before the exchange starts to die off and the black market (yes there is one in STO.) picks up.

As a seller and a buyer I have a question. If 50% of the listing fee is taken at time of post and the remanding fee is taken at time of sale. If I take down an item from the exchange am I refunded this listing fee or am I charged this listing fee every time I have to repost an item?

As a seller if people are charged a fee every time they post and repost an item, they will most likely not post the item on the exchange, but just sell it to a vendor if they don’t think it is worthy of the exchange, unless they know it will sell at that price quickly before someone else undercuts them. That means you will see a massive drop in the common and some to most of the uncommon items.

Now let’s look at it from this point of view. If I am refunded the listing fee if I have too repost, good that means I’m out nothing and the buyer has to pay more, because in the end the seller will not be paying listing fee the buyer will. In the real world yes the stores have to pay their governments taxes; but not until the buyer has given them these funds.

As a buyer I am concerned that this will just increase the cost on everything and it will be harder to find some items.

I’m both a buyer and seller on the exchange and my concerns are this will just increase cost and decrease supply. Say goodbye to the 1 EC tribbles.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Pretty much. If I ever have to sell anything on the exchange it will be the price+listing fee+exchange fee (if applicable) just like real life retail. My prices are fair though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    MJayMor wrote: »
    Cryptic is in the development stage in adding a listing fee on the exchange. That most likely means when people hear about this; prices on the exchange are going to start going up. People will need to make as much as possible before the exchange starts to die off and the black market (yes there is one in STO.) picks up.

    As a seller and a buyer I have a question. If 50% of the listing fee is taken at time of post and the remanding fee is taken at time of sale. If I take down an item from the exchange am I refunded this listing fee or am I charged this listing fee every time I have to repost an item?

    As a seller if people are charged a fee every time they post and repost an item, they will most likely not post the item on the exchange, but just sell it to a vendor if they don’t think it is worthy of the exchange, unless they know it will sell at that price quickly before someone else undercuts them. That means you will see a massive drop in the common and some to most of the uncommon items.

    Now let’s look at it from this point of view. If I am refunded the listing fee if I have too repost, good that means I’m out nothing and the buyer has to pay more, because in the end the seller will not be paying listing fee the buyer will. In the real world yes the stores have to pay their governments taxes; but not until the buyer has given them these funds.

    As a buyer I am concerned that this will just increase the cost on everything and it will be harder to find some items.

    I’m both a buyer and seller on the exchange and my concerns are this will just increase cost and decrease supply. Say goodbye to the 1 EC tribbles.

    This is unfortunate to hear. I think people will just turn to spamming zone chat with items and prices to avoid the loss. They do it now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    This is unfortunate to hear. I think people will just turn to spamming zone chat with items and prices to avoid the loss. They do it now.
    Didn't even think about that. Usually don't pay attention to the chat box unless its fleet chat. If they decide to implement this; I will have to start looking at that as one way to go.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    MJayMor wrote: »
    Didn't even think about that. Usually don't pay attention to the chat box unless its fleet chat. If they decide to implement this; I will have to start looking at that as one way to go.

    This was all covered in a discussion of fees somewhere back in the murky depths.

    The gist being exactly what you're saying, items will get rarer and pricier on the exchange and the rest of buying/selling will be spamalicious all over zone chat.

    I'll just quit selling to the exchange entirely and toss low-end items to the replicator and sell big ticket items to friends or fleet-mates or to the interested. (I don't believe in spam)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    As far as i'm concerned nothing will change, stuff is already nigh impossible to find, i've been breeding tribbles lately and the exchange is absolutely no help at all, no foods and no tribbles. So i'm not seeing how a fee is going to change much. Besides almost every other mmog with an auction house has this and guess what? their economies didn't implode and result in a barren AH. You can kick and scream and shout doom all you want, the end result is only that if you're not willing to profit on something then someone else will step in and do it for you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I still don't understand the reasoning behind a listing fee when the system as it is works demand & supply whats wrong whit it?

    If stuff is selling for ridicules prices then how is that a problem, that just means that their are people putting the effort in to get/earn the money to buy those things doesn't that encourage game play in the first place?:confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just a 5-10% off the top when your item sells would be fine. No listing fees. No fees if it doesn't sell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just a 5-10% off the top when your item sells would be fine. No listing fees. No fees if it doesn't sell.
    That's fine with me. But that means the price of items will increase on average of 10-15% +/- to cover that lose. The buyer is going to get ______ in this deal not the seller.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    this fee that they are imposing is going to be a major mistake. not only are people going to spam the zone chat, but it will spill out to here on the forums with people selling stuff. now lets say cryptic bans the people on the forums for selling stuff then i forsee websites popping up selling stuff for insane prices, this is going to be a very bad idea. they should leave the exchange alone it works people like it there are maybe a handleful of people that complain about prices but those people that are complaining are going to complain so much more because it going to get soooo bad. prices are going to skyrocket and you wont be able to get anymore good deals on exchange after this. so to all the complainers get out the crying towel because your going to have something to cry about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Exactly & if cryptic doesn't allow the forum to be used to cell stuff I see somebody setting up a website & or forum just for accommodating these transactions.

    Has cryptic already stated a decent reasoning behind this listing fee I have been digging a bit but I guess I probably missed the post or their is non.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    the only thing i can come up with is because of the couple of complainers crying about inflated prices but its going to get soo much worse that any bargains that is found on exchange now you can forget about it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    scorpiobe wrote: »
    Has cryptic already stated a decent reasoning behind this listing fee I have been digging a bit but I guess I probably missed the post or their is non.
    Cryptic has not stated anything about this except that it was in development in the engineering report.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=184934

    I wish they would come out and tell everyone what their plans were. I'm guessing but most people will not be happy about this except for a few of course.

    This will most likely come out sometime in Season 3.

    There already are some Black Market Fleets out there, this will just increase how many there are; which means more spamming. Even if you don't support a black market, you will not want to block any of them, because you never know they may post something you really need and can't find it in any missions or even on the STO exchange.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I wouldn't have any trouble with this (albiet I'd still think it utterly pointless) if it was a flat 10 or 20 EC fee to post on the exchange.

    But if you say the words percent and fee in the same sentence then I exercise the ability to sell elsewhere on the spot.
    Kiss my business goodbye.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cormoran wrote: »
    You can kick and scream and shout doom all you want, the end result is only that if you're not willing to profit on something then someone else will step in and do it for you.

    Which Rule of Acquisition is that? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    nileight wrote: »
    Which Rule of Acquisition is that? :D

    "A wise man can hear profit in the wind" rule of acquisition #22 :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Ya... as I've said before:

    Someone has to pay my expenses, and it ain't me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cormoran wrote: »
    "A wise man can hear profit in the wind" rule of acquisition #22 :D

    The wind is saying something.... something to the tune of;
    "%fee = exchange no longer profitable" :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    scorpiobe wrote: »
    I still don't understand the reasoning behind a listing fee when the system as it is works demand & supply whats wrong whit it?

    If stuff is selling for ridicules prices then how is that a problem, that just means that their are people putting the effort in to get/earn the money to buy those things doesn't that encourage game play in the first place?:confused:

    The point is that you don't use the exchange as a personal storage space. It also discourages sellers from putting stuff up at ridiculous prices because if it doesn't sell then they take a loss.

    Every other MMO has listing fees for auctions and they all work fine. I don't see why you would expect anything different to happen in STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The wind is saying something.... something to the tune of;
    "%fee = exchange no longer profitable" :D

    i hear "sellers wanting to protest = more chance for monopoly". Nothings going to happen, heck look at the wording people here are using; "someone" will create a site to do this and that, who is this someone when no one here is willing to do it? spamming channels gets a mention which will only result in 24 hour silencings (BTW i'm all for a Cryptic making a trade channel, the more avenues for profit the better). Upping prices to attempt to make up the difference is well within everyones rights, prices will still fluctuate, bargains will still be had and they'll still be selling in the place most people are willing to check out.

    The sky won't fall, the exchange won't turn into a ghost town, people who are attempting to make some sort of protest will quickly and silently crawl back to the exchange when they see there's no profit in protest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    CoX has a listing fee, and not only are prices reasonable in their market, but people are NOT spamming zone chat all the time. I don't see the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The point is that you don't use the exchange as a personal storage space. It also discourages sellers from putting stuff up at ridiculous prices because if it doesn't sell then they take a loss.

    Every other MMO has listing fees for auctions and they all work fine. I don't see why you would expect anything different to happen in STO.

    You can only put a limited amount of goodies up for sale 20 items so if that is the you're reasoning fine but a very pour one their is a simple solution for that instead of a exchange fee limiting this to only 10 items.

    And when it comes to prices their is not much of a discussion to go on, it's supply & demand, prices wouldn't be so high for certain items if people are not being them & if they when not rare or very rare.

    If you sell rare or very rare items either you bought them whit emblems, crafted them or played allot on elite mode so that's allot of effort to get something & that comes whit a price that's simple economics for you ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    scorpiobe wrote: »
    You can only put a limited amount of goodies up for sale 20 items so if that is the you're reasoning fine but a very pour one their is a simple solution for that instead of a exchange fee limiting this to only 10 items.

    Yeah that's just going to annoy a different/overlapping group of sellers. Who here wants the amount of items they can sell on the exchange to be cut in half? show of hands please?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cormoran wrote: »
    Yeah that's just going to annoy a different/overlapping group of sellers. Who here wants the amount of items they can sell on the exchange to be cut in half? show of hands please?

    Nobody I was just pointing something out, don't jump the gun especially because they already dealt whit this by letting the items expire after a week.

    I also don't get why anybody would use the exchange as storage when you have so much room on you're person not to say you might have a alternate character that you can store stuff on + a fleet bank. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Might I offer a suggestion...

    Why not make the exchange like a real auction house and set it up exactly the way ebay does it?

    For example, a seller posts the item. It is a small fee (% of reserve price and starting bid price) depending on if a reserve price and/or starting bid is set and a time line with a max of 7 days to be able to stay on the exchange. This fee would be non-refundable. However if the item doesn't sell, the seller would be allowed to re-list it free if it is listed the exact same way as before (Reserve price, time on exchange, starting bid price)

    Everyone is allowed to "Bid" on the item thru a system of "Max Bid" until someone surpasses the max bid that someone has set on an item. The auction continues to the end of the time line set by the buyer. If seller has set a "reserve price" and that price is met, item sells to highest bidder. If reserve price is not set, it sells for the max bid posted. The exchange then takes a percentage of the winning bid as an additional selling fee. Everyone is happy...

    So basically the general structure:
    • Seller lists item
    • Sets an optional reserve price and starting bid price. Seller can also list it as a "Buy it now" and bypass the auction.
    • Sets a time frame for auction (Max 7 days)

    The Buyers
    • Buyers bid on item using a "maximum amount willing to pay for item"
    • Another person comes and bids. He bid is accepted or denied depending on the "Max Bid". Next Bid amount goes up until the "Max Bid is Reached" which at that time the new buyer is current high bidder.
    Auction ends and item goes to highest bidder providing the reserve price (if any) is met and the time limit of the auction has ended.

    Cyrptic holds appropriate fees from the seller and buyer depending on price item sold for and if any reserve and/or starting bid was set.

    This works very well for Ebay and should be considered. I think it would help a lot with the current STO economy and the way items are grossly overpriced... People would think twice about selling stuff for ridiculously high prices or using the exchange as a "Storage Area"

    Yes there are going to be those that try to sell via Zone chat and such, but I hardly see them and you are going to have them no matter what. I don't think the numbers will go up much in Zone either way, but I think it would be a lot less if this system was adopted...

    Have a settings "Save" option for quick listing as well, so you don't have to sit and enter stuff for each item except if you want to...

    The "Buy it now" option bypasses the auction if the seller sets a "Buy it now" price.

    And lastly, remove the max amount you can list on the exchange with this system...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    This is unfortunate to hear. I think people will just turn to spamming zone chat with items and prices to avoid the loss. They do it now.
    Pretty much this. Zone chat will become like an auction list instead of the communication feature it's ment to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Pretty much. If I ever have to sell anything on the exchange it will be the price+listing fee+exchange fee (if applicable) just like real life retail. My prices are fair though.
    ^^ This ^^

    If I have to pay X to list an item for Y on the exchange, I will now list it for X+Y, WHICH MAKES ALL THE PRICES ON THE EXCHANGE THAT MUCH HIGHER!!!!

    Why do you people not understand supply & demand and pricing? Isn't this a required course in nearly every high school?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    All i have to say is that the fee needs to be a fix amount(lets say 20000 energy credits) what you get back when some1 buys your item and what you lose when you cant sell it within the 1 week time frame.If you cancel your auction you lose that 20000.


    I say this because this system seems to work well in other games.(if the fee will be a % amount then I am not sure that I will try to sell something whats worth a lot on the exchange(aux to SIF 3,efficient saurian,BO3 etc.) and the direct result will be that these rare items will be more rare and harder to find(thus more expensive)+you will need to sit a half day in earth spacedock/Qo'noS if you want to get such item from the general chat(soon trade channel if it will be %).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    This is unfortunate to hear. I think people will just turn to spamming zone chat with items and prices to avoid the loss. They do it now.

    Yup, this is easily what's going to happen.

    To be honest I see no need to even put this silly fee on the exchange....why make a stressless element stressful? Not a good tbh haha :rolleyes:

    I honestly think Cryptic needs to STOP listening to the whiners....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just a 5-10% off the top when your item sells would be fine. No listing fees. No fees if it doesn't sell.
    It really should be a 'Overhead' Fee for posting something at a price that doesn't sell, with the fee extracted either weekly, or when the item is returned. This would help cut down on the hording and price speculation that's currently running rampant on the Exchange...

    As an example, last month, someone posted 'Non-Efficient' Uncommon Saurians with exactly the same skills but with a slightly lower multimillion EC price next to the 'Efficient' Uncommon Saurians already posted, in an attempt to profit from someone 'accidentally' confusing and purchasing a 'non-efficient' BO for an 'efficient' one. Having a posting overhead would cut down on these 'fraudulent' postings. It would also cut down on people who are using the Exchange for 'storage' and improve the speed and reliability of Exchange searches.

    (And yes, I understand how supply and demand works, but with limited supply, and no hording restrictions, and no overhead fee, this really doesn't apply. With a overhead fee, supply and demand will become more effective, as Exchange posters will now have to maintain a minimum cash flow with what they post to stay viable, and will have to respond to a lack of demand caused by out-pricing the market)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    As an example, last month, someone posted 'Non-Efficient' Uncommon Saurians with exactly the same skills but with a slightly lower multimillion EC price next to the 'Efficient' Uncommon Saurians already posted, in an attempt to profit from someone 'accidentally' confusing and purchasing a 'non-efficient' BO for an 'efficient' one. Having a posting overhead would cut down on these 'fraudulent' postings. It would also cut down on people who are using the Exchange for 'storage' and improve the speed and reliability of Exchange searches.
    First off, the Exchange is NOT a 'storage'. It mails you unsold items after a week on there.

    Second, I wouldn't be surprised if people just see Saurians listed for huge amounts and don't understand why, so they try to sell theirs for gangbusters also. There are alot of people who are ignorant about why certain races of BOs sell for tons. I know many players that don't realize SIF III is hard to come by and therefore very valuable.
    (And yes, I understand how supply and demand works, but with limited supply, and no hording restrictions, and no overhead fee, this really doesn't apply. With a overhead fee, supply and demand will become more effective, as Exchange posters will now have to maintain a minimum cash flow with what they post to stay viable, and will have to respond to a lack of demand caused by out-pricing the market)
    I understant that you understand how supply & demand works. What you also need to understand is pricing.

    Example - Superstore X buys Widgets from China for $200 each. However, there is a 10% import tarriff on that. This makes the total paid $220. Therefore, they will never sell it for less than it costs to get in their hands. Superstore X isn't going to just eat that $20 tarriff on each Widget. The extra they pay is passed onto the consumer.
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