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Cryptic has ruined PvP

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Cryptic, you have utterly have destroyed any chance of balance in PvP so bad that Federation players are getting curbstomped constantly, except the most experienced of PvP Fleets.

  • Matches are othing but NPC Spam from Vo'Quvs and the new Orion ships that makes it impossible to even target anyone manually.
  • Vor'chas behaving like supped up Raptors with Engineering slots.
  • Cruisers with heal stacking up the wazu that makes them invulernable.

And I'm currently playing Klingons more than Federation players! Federation players are getting so stomped more than they use to be, it's not even funny.

You guys need to get down and do some balancing ASAP, before Season 3. Else there will be less PvPers than there are currently.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    Cryptic, you have utterly have destroyed any chance of balance in PvP so bad that Federation players are getting curbstomped constantly, except the most experienced of PvP Fleets.

    • Matches are othing but NPC Spam from Vo'Quvs and the new Orion ships that makes it impossible to even target anyone manually.
    • behaving like supped up Raptors with Engineering slots.
    • Cruisers with heal stacking up the wazu that makes them invulernable.

    And I'm currently playing Klingons more than Federation players! Federation players are getting so stomped more than they use to be, it's not even funny.

    You guys need to get down and do some balancing ASAP, before Season 3. Else there will be less PvPers than there are currently.



    So we (the KDF) got new 2 fed ship clones with an ability, with 1 less slot that the cloned ship (gorn/orion ships.). A B'rel which i cant say for sure (since the dev's havent said anything.) but i hope it's bugged, and not as intended. Which so far seems to play just like a normal T5 bop.

    Cant comment on the Vor'chas tho, i havent playied it or seen it in action yet.

    As for the carrier there are many threads about how to kill them.

    But the new Gorn/orion ship shouldn't effect balance as they are clones of what YOU already have, and the b'rel is just a bugged T5 in no way OP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    Cryptic, you have utterly have destroyed any chance of balance in PvP so bad that Federation players are getting curbstomped constantly, except the most experienced of PvP Fleets.

    • Matches are othing but NPC Spam from Vo'Quvs and the new Orion ships that makes it impossible to even target anyone manually.
    • Vor'chas behaving like supped up Raptors with Engineering slots.
    • Cruisers with heal stacking up the wazu that makes them invulernable.

    And I'm currently playing Klingons more than Federation players! Federation players are getting so stomped more than they use to be, it's not even funny.

    You guys need to get down and do some balancing ASAP, before Season 3. Else there will be less PvPers than there are currently.

    Main problem isn't that much the balance, but the usage of the tools at hand for the Federation side. I play PvP both on Fed and KDF and I have to say, my little Defiant deals out some VERY severe punishment. There's a trick to break the entire uber hull healing the Cruisers do, crack their shields first. Best thing to do with an escort for that is to get Target Subsystems: Shields with a Dual Beam Bank. Blast their shields a few times with that and when they go down, pop THY and CRF... oh you'll see them go boom pretty fast.

    Thing is, Federation ships have such a nice goodies, Nebula's cloak detection (which is one heck of a problem when you're trying to line up for a strike as a KDF) is simply awesome. I rarely see it being used in PvP tho. The Intrepid's Ablative armor? Excellent tool, problem is that people tend to use it way too quickly, this is meant as a protection for when you're about to die since you can still use your BO powers.

    Also, even tho the "older" escorts lack a cloak, why not get MES on it? Does basically the same thing just a bit weaker. KDF never expect cloaked ships, that's why the Defiant has a natural advantage here. The Galaxy X... well less. It's too slow and doesn't pack enough firepower to be a severe threat with it's cloak but it can be a real pain.

    I'm all for an honest match but I think that primarily the problem lies with the skill of the individual players, mind you OP I am NOT pointing my finger at you with this comment, just the general state of play of some players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    solution dont pvp with klingons no more just fed vs fed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    For me the factor that ruins PVP is PUGs...


    I cant tell you how annoying it is to play and be surrounded by people who do not know what they are doing or are emblem farmers or would rather be chatty


    There are tons of us who know how to play and there should be a pvp dedicated to those who are veterans and or are serious pvp'ers.....and yes i remain fleetless on purpose.


    Another queue should be reserved for learning folks and emblem farmers......


    What use is PVP to those who want to pvp but are forced to endure this torture.....Kling type folks do not have fun owning people and never having challenges and fed who want to play get frustrated because we have lots of ding a lings.

    As with any game you only get better by going uo against those who challenge you......

    Close your eyes and imagine....you spawn in a pvp zone that is'arena" flavored and you are on the fed side........noone grops up and all 5 or more players go off in their own directions....it is a recipe for tedious and non fun pvp.....I am now known to drop a pvp instance if i do not like what happens in the first few seconds of a match.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    You guys need to get down and do some balancing ASAP, before Season 3. Else there will be less PvPers than there are currently.

    If the ones left don't hurt my ears with their whines, I'm fine with that. How dare Cryptic make people learn to do anything more than buy a cruiser and win?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PvP's been unbalanced for a long time, well before these changes came in.

    Klingops love to scream learn 2 play at people who complain, but then look at the source. Klingons=Over powered faction=Winning the majority of games. So as far as they will claim its all good, because their winning.

    Try and explain why they have the advantages and they scream 'but but but.... shields and hulls' at you as a way of defending why klingons advantages are actually disadvantegs because their shields and hulls are barely noticably weaker. (though they neglect to mention that some of their ships have MORE hull and shields, but hey ho,)

    Then you'll have Federation players claiming how uberl33t they are in their pre-made fleets and demand that every fed player should have no life and only play pre-mades as well.


    It doesnt matter how many of these threads appear. As far as they are concerned everything is 100% ok because they're winning. The developers would rather listen to them than the majority because it means they can claim the game is good and dont have to improve it. When they do fiddle, they'll add more damage, more CC and make it more like wow where you spend more time respawning than you do playing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Bottom line is this.

    Regardless if you're in a pre-made, super PvP fleet, or just a regular pug player, the tactics and tools to get the job done exist. If you cannot capitalize on them, that's your own fault. It's nobody's problem but yours if you think you should be able to sit still one spot and wildly flail at your keys and win.

    The majority, you speak of, aren't sitting in these forums all day throwing fits about a faction having something they don't. You are the loud minority, period. I'm sure if you keep flooding the forums with useless garbage they might cave to you when everyone else gets sick of trying to help you actually improve your game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Hint: You are NOT the hero of a tv series, you don't have plot armor. You are not suppose to have a guaranteed win simply by existing or been starfleet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I would have to agree that the BoP in particular is a bit over powered.

    However...

    Snix has mentioned that they want to make damage more "sticky", and to reduce or eliminate hull ping pong. This would have a dramatic effect on the lighter ships, particularly BoPs, and might under-power them. We will have to be very cautious moving forward with such changes.

    All of this aside, I have noticed that science ships rarely do KDF. They tend to stick to FvF. This is having a tremendous effect on game balance in FvK, because science ships are actually very powerful. I've been flying one recently myself (as a tac no less). A couple of times, I've had up to one other sci ship with similar builds and play styles to myself. During those occasions, we absolutely ruin the entire KDF's ability to use pets, which allows our team mates to focus on killing ships, which allows us to win, even in Cap and Hold. Another very very useful ally has been one escort with scatter shot.

    There are ways to do this, and they require the Feds to have a more diverse fleet, not a cruiser fleet.

    These science ship captains in FvF are generally quite skilled...the just must be scared to face the KDF. I even rarely see science ships when I play my KDF.

    Now, I'm not saying that this would solve all the problems. However, this is having a large effect on KvF balance right now, much more so than most people realize.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Unfortunately, they do not WANT to realize it. They want to have one setup that can do everything. Period. They aren't going to be happy until they get exactly that.

    I run around with 3, sometimes 4 different Boff setups that I swap out with depending on what I'm up against in any of my ships. I think the only ones I don't change regularly are the tacs in my Defiant.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Snix has mentioned that they want to make damage more "sticky", and to reduce or eliminate hull ping pong. This would have a dramatic effect on the lighter ships, particularly BoPs, and might under-power them. We will have to be very cautious moving forward with such changes.

    Indeed, I was really pleased when he spoke about that, it's been something i've been saying should happen for quite some time now. I don't think it will under power bops because they will still have all their advantages, and for them its more about shield heals anyway, but it will go some way to restore balance. It will also give them an advantage however as it makes burst damage more important and works in favour of a BoP's tactics. Hit a cruiser, drop its hull 10%, run away, come back and repeat. Cruiser can never re-heal like it can now.

    Thats how it should be though
    The majority, you speak of, aren't sitting in these forums all day throwing fits about a faction having something they don't. You are the loud minority, period. I'm sure if you keep flooding the forums with useless garbage they might cave to you when everyone else gets sick of trying to help you actually improve your game.
    .

    Im quite happy with 'my game'. I just have the intelligence to see the game for what it is and are not desperate to keep the imbalance in the game like many of the klingops and premader's.

    Just howis everyone trying to improve my game exactly? by declaring Shields and HUlls at every opportunity. Or by producing a counter for every single thing in teh game, despite teh reality that you only have a finite amount of ability slots. Or by the ultimate uberlo3er advaice Learn 2 Play

    Because that covers about 99% of the advice that klingops and premaders have to give.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    rb74 wrote:
    Just howis everyone trying to improve my game exactly? by declaring Shields and HUlls at every opportunity. Or by producing a counter for every single thing in teh game, despite teh reality that you only have a finite amount of ability slots. Or by the ultimate uberlo3er advaice Learn 2 Play

    Because that covers about 99% of the advice that klingops and premaders have to give.

    Then maybe you should L2P, You certainly seem to think you are the god of PvP, yet you, obviously, are too busy crying nerf on the forums to actually put any of the tactics into practice. Since you're talking about the finite ability slots, it would seem that you think that you are entitled to having the counter to anything in the game at the same time? Why is that exactly? You obviously know that the counters exist.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010

    All of this aside, I have noticed that science ships rarely do KDF. They tend to stick to FvF. This is having a tremendous effect on game balance in FvK, because science ships are actually very powerful. I've been flying one recently myself (as a tac no less). A couple of times, I've had up to one other sci ship with similar builds and play styles to myself. During those occasions, we absolutely ruin the entire KDF's ability to use pets, which allows our team mates to focus on killing ships, which allows us to win, even in Cap and Hold. Another very very useful ally has been one escort with scatter shot.

    There are ways to do this, and they require the Feds to have a more diverse fleet, not a cruiser fleet.

    These science ship captains in FvF are generally quite skilled...the just must be scared to face the KDF. I even rarely see science ships when I play my KDF.

    Now, I'm not saying that this would solve all the problems. However, this is having a large effect on KvF balance right now, much more so than most people realize.
    Escorts tend to avoid FvK too. Which actually reenforces the all-cruiser line-up. When all your team-mates are cruisers, there isn't much point to a cruiser healing, and since the lighter ships aren't getting heals they avoid FvK.

    I think a lot of it is that there's no reason for most players to do FvK, so that queue doesn't draw the better players. I know a couple of good players that don't really complain about imbalance, but they just don't do FvK.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    inktomi19d wrote: »
    Escorts tend to avoid FvK too. Which actually reenforces the all-cruiser line-up. When all your team-mates are cruisers, there isn't much point to a cruiser healing, and since the lighter ships aren't getting heals they avoid FvK.

    I think a lot of it is that there's no reason for most players to do FvK, so that queue doesn't draw the better players. I know a couple of good players that don't really complain about imbalance, but they just don't do FvK.

    KvK has started to pop more, which is a by-product of the FvK queues starting to skew massively towards Klinks waiting in line. I would say that the skew started to happen after carriers got buffed, but that's just my observations.

    Around that time people started complaining about the new carriers, OP/Lag reasons - same thing - complaints. Carriers began to get massively more popular by klinks - before the buff you saw maybe 1 a game, afterwards you see 2-3 on average. For most feds, FvF is already the more popular choice for a variety of reasons. The carriers (imho) added a level of distaste to the FvK queue - Too many pets, too much lag, this is OP, ETC.

    Now of course, I may be mistaking Correlation with Causality. Based off the complaints about them though (ya ya ya), I would say that the point is fairly accurate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I believe there needs to be a reduction in deployables in PvP matches. I love my Vo'Quv, but I have to agree that I'm in a lot of matches where most or all of the Klingon ships are dropping fighters/drones/BoP/frigates or what have you. Throw in some mines and it gets choked. This will likely change as the flavor of the month ships are rotated out for different choices in the longer term, but even then my faction of choice still has four ships summoning additional vessels.

    I'm interested in seeing deployables becoming more fragile, perhaps more like photonic fleet ships, in return for appropriate boosts to ships that lose out due to this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I do have to recommend that the interface needs the option to hide pets (fighters, drones, mines, etc) independent of enemy players and AI ships.

    I can target through the cloud of icons, but it is a pain in the butt, and clutters the hell out of the view screen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    i was doing alright in FvK in my engineer Assault cruiser until the carriers got buffed for me it was not that they were any stronger but that all the pets cause my computer to start to get too slow and jumpy so that i could not even move. by the time i move the enemy has jumped position so it makes it hard to maneuver and to target a correct enemy it has caused me to stop doing FvK as soon as i reach RA. i have not tried it recently so maybe its time to try again. when my computer finally gets working right.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Cryptic ruined PvP by including PvP.

    Some people will never be happy with the way things are no matter what Cryptic does. Deal with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PVP get changed every other patch just wait a few week.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    In response to several messages about lag...

    How about getting a computer that wasn't made last decade rather than complaining about too many npcs....

    As for Klingons being overpowered Think about it a little more Klingons (IMU) Were originally and still are a PVP faction.
    As for Orion cruisers... There a perfect ship for the klingons. They can be blown up very easy (Even more so than carriers, duh..) If you still actually struggle with them then just do FvF pvp. Then you can complain about how the E.G. Intrepid is so underpowered (Just an example not a fact) Lol.

    And If you still can't click on a ship..I can't say anything to you other than Learn how to. ;).


    Tbh Idc what you guys think should happen and bla bla bla. You should learn how to make Klingon ships go boom rather than go "oh oh omg omg there too strong omg. Lets complain about it on the forms!"

    I Bet alot of you here after getting beaten by a ship so many times (which ever) Do that.
    Its probably the reason why theres so many threads in this forum.


    Also At least the Klingons Go in as a team rather than a solo....We're not NPC'S you know that, Don't you?


    1) Work as a team and look out for each other. Even KDF have issue with doing this, as I've seen in several games from both sides. when feds use even a little team work, they can easily trounce KDF teams which are functioning off of no teamwork.

    2) Bring something other than fricking cruisers! even if you are all in Escorts. Teamwork (grouping, targeting teammates for heals, etc) will always trump playing solo for effectiveness. ALWAYS!

    Cruisers are probably the WORST ship to fight KDF with. They will always out turn you, they will always out gun you, and with their current battlecruisers, they can match you for survivability


    Don't use Cruisers against the KDF, if you can at all help it.


    Two or more escorts are better, because they can kill targets. They can focus fire, and burn through defenses fast, plus have enough maneuverability to at least occasionally dictate some terms of battle.

    Two or more science are better, because they can control targets. They are able to stun, strip, and trap targets very well. A couple of science ships, with occasional (but not often) heals, can obliterate any pet advantage the KDF has on a map, and suppress enemy ships nicely. I've done this myself, IN PICK UP GROUPS.

    Two or more Cruiser will fail to gain dominance in any way, and are guaranteed to lose. They might (MIGHT, if they are working as a TEAM) hold their small section of space for a little while, but they will be fighting a war of attrition, that their opponents have more resources to dedicate to. Cruisers should support other ships in KvF, since those are the ones that can actually get things done. Actually, Cruisers are pretty much support ships even in FvF (I know, NOTHING like actual Star Trek...but this is STO, not Star Trek).

    Cruisers themselves can not achieve victory, unless they are up against a KDF team filled with raw incompetence (which, to be fair, I've seen a few of).

    I would even go so far as to say that Cruisers are the weakest in FvF...but as a cruiser I am generally able to beat back any one escort that attacks me, or at least force a draw. Two escorts, however...two escorts or one science ship can dictate the terms of engagement, and bring a lot more resources to a fight than one or (in some cases) even two Cruisers can ever HOPE to match (and before you say it, yes, multiple ships should always be able to kill single ships, even if it takes a while). This can be seen well in Cruiser vs Cruiser fights. SOMEONE should come out on top, but often it becomes an eternal stalemate. In my opinion, cruisers have too much defense and not enough offense. Battlecruisers at least can achieve a victory against one another. This is a topic for another thread, however.

    Oh, and before you say it, if anybody tries to convince you that science ships have worse offense than Cruisers, they are full of it. MAYBE worse than the Excelsior Retrofit...but if flown properly they can match Cruisers for damage, and in several cases do much more.

    Are there imbalance issues that favor KDF? Yes, I can think of at least one off the top of my head. I'm not going to pretend that the situation is all rosy and nice, and people just need to learn to play. That is neither fair nor accurate. However, the situation is not NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be. Feds cripple themselves by not taking diverse fleets in to KDF, and this has a DRAMATIC effect on the perceived balance between these factions.

    As always, do something with our targeting, Cryptic. Pet spam was an issue back in BETA with mines, and has only become worse over time for our targeting and the ability to see the battle clearly. Many people flood pets on the screen to exploit this very flaw in your game design.
    (Yes I copied some of this but I couldn't of said it better my self.)









    (& No I'm not sorry for the Spelling errors)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    oooh, boy. What a laugh riot. Get a better computer? quad core 2.46 ghz processor and 6 gbz ram. Nothing but pets lag me at all in the game. Even if it did, not everyone has $300-$3000 to spend on a state of the art computer.

    As for cruisers being the worst ship to fight the KDF with... Sure. Let's ignore the fact that all the active heals are in the engineering skill section :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Is this why the cruiser(fed) gets blown up alot in pvp? :rolleyes:

    And seriously Get a computer that wasn't built last decade. It helps so much.
    And if you have a computer that was built 2003+ and you still lag, Lower your graphics or get better CPU & Graphics drivers.

    And that was IMO (about cruisers) I actually have better survivability in an escort / sci ship rather than A cruiser...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010

    And that was IMO (about cruisers) I actually have better survivability in an escort / sci ship rather than A cruiser...

    Then you're doing it wrong. It takes a minimum of three players ganging up on me to kill my star cruiser.

    Then again my cruiser and boff setup is done in such a way to maximize my ability to heal myself and team, while making myself a royal pita to kill because you have to devote time and multiple players to do so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Im stating thats the facts for me. I Don't care to much for federation cruisers, Especially in PVP,

    Bear in mind I know how to use a cruiser infact, just about anyship you could throw at me. I know how to use.
    I only use a cruiser when I'm In PvP against The federation.

    Now don't try to teach me about whatever. Honestly I wouldn't learn anything that I already know.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I have to admit it...that doodoo made me laugh.......


    The only people that are gonna suceed as pair of escorts and sci vessels are those on vent or have talked to each other and planned their tactics..


    I dare say the majority are not as such.



    Cruisers are the way to go against PVP in PUG situations....they can outlast any other ship if played properly and not hit upon by 5 ships which NO SHIP CAN REPELL with any consistency. That does not mean a full pvp group of Fed cruisers is the best use of space but i dare suggest they will last longer then a mix of escorts and sci vessels more then not with seasoned players.


    I play my cruiser in PVP often and because i am equipped with emergency power to engines 3 and a few other speed boost/buffs If i am in trouble...who is gonna keep up with me and sustain high DPS as I fly in and out of their VERY limited firing arcs??? Ever seen a cruiser burst of speed...it is beautiful.......as i watch the BoP's left in the distance......in most cases an extra 10 secs of time is enough to ensure cooldowns reset and i am back in the game....usually a cloaked Kling will chase me which is fine.....i can repel firepower of 2 BOP's easily.....


    As to the criticism about learning how to click.......with a sky full of 30 pets and mines it is a MAD BASTAGE to try and click on a human player through all that garbage.........CRYPTIC needs to fix this....


    Been playing since before launch and i do not need people telling me or others to learn how to click or using the UI...thats just silly.


    I use cruisers as they were intended.......To create a perimeter around the battle to support and draw aggro to themselves from pets and whatnot and to heal.......I clean the skies of errant missiles and weak pets and offer heals...


    It amuses me to no end when a BoP tried to take me down solo........even 2 offer little issues.......I fly high and pull them away from the battle and the further away I go from the battle the more these 2 or more guys cannot do anything to the rest of my fleet. I burst of speed but do not go full speed as mostly i would get too far away...i want them to continue coming at me...works like a charm...the silly KDF keeps coming.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    how dare you say get a computer that was not made in the last decade maybe like myself a person just cant afford to get a better computer. maybe work is not going so well or maybe they've just moved and are finding it hard to get work. im try hard here not to just explode at your un-thoughtful words and get my self banned from the forums.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    i anticipated the new klingon refits would get this reaction...
    but i thought it would be over the B'Rel and NOt the Vorcha or the Gorn cruiser!!!

    i can't believe anyone would think the Vorcha is overpowered...

    the Vorcha refit is nothing more then a cloakable tactical cruiser with cannons.
    and it has poor turn and much less hull!
    and the Feds have had the Tac Cruiser since luanch!
    do to its slow turn cannons are not used NEARLY to the same effectiveness as in a raptor.
    when the Vorcha refit was released i was very disappointed.
    and once the vorcha unloaks it is commited to the battle... very easy to kill...

    [QUOTE=garravesh;3154031

    ]For me the factor that ruins PVP is PUGs...

    .[/QUOTE]

    garravesh hit the nail on the head here!!!

    before the refits, fed pugs got completely crushed by the outdated war machines of the empire...
    mainly because fed PUGS NEVER help eachother or work together.
    they often wander out in a loose formation, or in no formation at all, and get preyed upon by klingons.
    almost ALL klingon pugs form a team immediatly and take 2-3 minutes to agree on targets, healers and tactics before uncloaking.
    i know... i pug on both sides.
    when i am a klingon i have complete support from players i have never met before.
    when i am puggin with feds, i cant get a heal to save my life!
    everyone shoots the escorts and the cruisers are too busy healing themselves and fleeing the fight.

    of course it doesnt help that cryptic changed the random spawn to an easily camp-able main spawn.,,

    we all know cruiser are a little OP on both sides.
    this just doesnt apply to fed star and tac cruisers...
    this also applies to the naghvar and now the new gorn and orion ships.
    i ACTUALLY play KvK when the feds are boycotting the klings... and trust me...
    i get JUST as frustrated going after orion cruisers as i do going after star cruisers!

    HOWEVER,

    the fed side has enjoyed their refits for QUITE some time now.
    many of these models have PUSHED the envelope on balance for a LONG time.
    yet the klingons sallied forth and took their lickings... expecting things would get better when the kling refits would come out some 4 months later....
    the feds thought everything was FINE!

    NOW... there is a counter to the chain healing of cruiser, or the intrepid armor, or the Gal-X
    now the klkigns have their FIRST REAL science vessel... and it is a GOOD healer!
    now the klings also have the B'Rel, which wont win any damage trophies, but enables the klings to use sci powers and projectiles to do crowd control and to stun fed ships before they can get thier "chain of invincibility" up.

    however, liek the intredpid and the Gal-X, we will see if the B'Rel has pushed the boundary of balance a bit too far!

    but the Vorcha?
    or a gorn science vessel that drop repair pods.. instead of going invincible for 20 seconds?
    i don;t think so...
    id ANYTHING, the gorn vessel forces klingons to choose a single defensive point and forces them to use the roaming cloak ambush tactic less!

    THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS:

    - fed premades PROVED beyond a doubt, klingon equipment was inferior to their federation counterparts!
    - fed PUGS will always get pwned unless they start teaching noobs basic teamwork tactics.
    - the poor performance of feds in PUGS is not due to ships or equipment, but a loack of team work and tactics. (something the fed premades have in spades)
    - as of right now, fed premades STILL dominate klingon premades, although these premades on both sides are often made up of the exact same players (especially TSI)
    - these skilled players, who play both sides, prooved that the old klingon tactics and ships were markedly inferior to fed ships and tactics.

    NOW, the question is:

    will the klingons use a ship that can fire when cloaked to turn the tide of balance?
    will the klingons STOP using the cloak ambush with kling vessel, and adopt more "fed" tactics now that the non-cloaking carriers and orion/gorn cruisers are taking center stage?

    will these new refits make the klingon OP for once?
    will the klingons FINALLY be able to fight in premades without shame?
    will feds continue to gauge "balance" on the performance of 5 fed strangers being thrown to the wolves during an arena pug?

    one thing is for sure...
    the klingons ENDURED a lot of dev denial as the federation players get almost everything they asked for.... FOR MONTHS!
    now that they get their refits... feds immediatly cry foul before the new ships even get a week to be tested in combat.
    it sounds to me more like most fed players are being panicked by these new strange ships...
    we ALL know that season 3 will see a change in the basic PvP mechanic.
    lets just see what effect these new refits have on PvP until then and balance them accordingly!

    AS AN ASIDE:

    i STILL don;t know WHY the feds don't have a T5 carrier?
    can anyone explain this to me?
    since fed carrier ARE canon, and kling carriers are NOT!!

    maybe feds would whine less about "fighters, frigates and drones (oh my)" if they had some to toss around in a fight themselves!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'm glad this thread turned out better than I anticipated. From many's viewpoints, even Faithborn's analysis, there is indeed something wrong in STO. Especially how the KvK is active after months of being empty. Right now it's easy to be a Klingon and the Klingon population is skyrocketing.

    So it all the more justifies there is indeed a serious problem that Cryptic needs to work on.



    Hopefully what they are working on is going to be something that works out that average players can enjoy without needing to resort to hardcore builds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Wow- give the KDF some love and see the hate flow from the feds.
    Aside from the gamewide changes that gave everybody more hull and shields and the changes to pets for the carriers, nothing has changed in the KDF. (new ships not withstanding- but I'm sure whines will be forth comming)
    The carrier is the same as it was, just better pets and the BoP never changed its powers, just better hull/shields now. SO why the hate? My pvp experiences have not changed one iota. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose and hardwork and teamwork still make the difference more than any special ability or gimmick.
    Sure NPC's make for a laggy game and poor targeting, been saying that for a while about tactical fleet support, photonic fleet and mines in pvp. I fail to see how that turned the carrier OP.
    The statement to "buy a better computer" is both insulting and true. One should not go to war with tools that are considered outdated if one expects to perform at one's highest ability. As well that one should respect the fact that not everybody can afford to upgrade ones tools on a whim or without first checking one's finances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    I'm glad this thread turned out better than I anticipated. From many's viewpoints, even Faithborn's analysis, there is indeed something wrong in STO. Especially how the KvK is active after months of being empty. Right now it's easy to be a Klingon and the Klingon population is skyrocketing.

    So it all the more justifies there is indeed a serious problem that Cryptic needs to work on.



    Hopefully what they are working on is going to be something that works out that average players can enjoy without needing to resort to hardcore builds.

    I would say the biggest problem with FvK isn't the refits, but the pets.
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