This has been something I've been really conflicted with a lot lately. I don't like to cry nerf and I'm not going to because I think all of the other ships (except maybe for a few KDF of which I have no experience with) are fine the way they are. I've found it very frusterating lately playing an escort in pvp and having to rely on other ships. I understand that this is an MMO and team work should be supported, however, it's difficult when you don't have team mates that will work with you.
In which case, Cruisers and Sci vessels can last quite a while without having to run and can withstand against mulltiple enemies. This is where I think it gets to be the most frusterating to play and escort, they're usually the top on any pvp groups kill list and they can't handle multiple enemies. Sometimes as I've found with a few matches earlier today, hitting eng batteries with polarize hull and evasive manuevers and even hitting the speed setting on top of it is useless.
To top this off, Escorts can not go toe to toe with a cruiser - You can tell me that my build isn't right, that i'm not good enough of a captain, etc. etc. etc. and I will still stand by this point. I play an Eng in a cruiser and every time an escort comes at me I laugh, seriously, I find them as no threat at all unless they have another ship with them. Then I struggle against other sci vessels or cruisers, so if I'm just not good at flying an escort and I was stupid about how I built it, why is it that I can tear through just about any escort with my cruiser? You'd figure that as long as I've been playing my eng VA cruiser I'd at least come across at least one escort to make me sweat, but that hasn't happened yet.
So what can we do for Escorts to be more of a threat? Here's my suggestion...
I don't think that the other ships should be nerfed, I think they're all fine where they are.
I don't think that Escorts hull or shields should be raised, because that would just make them a smaller version of a cruiser or sci vessel with a little more dps. I personally think we should be given a power that allows us to peirce right through shields or maybe give them an ability that gives you a 100% chance to disable shields.
I don't think this ability should last all that long, I just think we should build on the fire power aspect of the game by applying this to escorts. They need to be more threatening and give cruiser captains a reason to sweat.
Escorts should by default rest at the Defense bonus cap.
That would be a decent start.
Furthermore giving us an actual Z axis in this game so people wouldn't just park out of our primary damage arc and laugh would help as well. As it stands it takes us longer than anyone else to get back into combat once we either die or have to disengage. This is actually one of the resaons DBB escorts are popular is because it's alot harder for them to be out of arc just due to altitude.
So we'd gain a ton of damage back.
Also tactical officer skills are a little overrated, as are the tac captain skills.
I had a 1v1 with a friend last night with their cruiser and my escort. It was 15 and 13 with me on the bottom end. Ask her if she thinks that escorts need a boost. Personally I think escorts are fine as is. They should not be a threat by themselves. But in a team setting, Escorts do the most threatening damage against any vessel. This is why teams take out the escorts first, because they pose the most threat.
Biggest trouble with escorts is that the Tactical Retrofit has the stealth, so you're cornered into playing it in PvP. If the fleet escort had stealth, it would be a far better built and allow for more self healing and survivability.
I agree. I do wish the Fleet Escorts were granted Stealth. Just one thing though, what would set them apart from the current retrofit escorts if they were? They would actually out damage them *and* have the same cloak if that were to happen. Something would have to be granted to the current retrofits if this were to happen to bring them on par.
I had a 1v1 with a friend last night with their cruiser and my escort. It was 15 and 13 with me on the bottom end. Ask her if she thinks that escorts need a boost. Personally I think escorts are fine as is. They should not be a threat by themselves. But in a team setting, Escorts do the most threatening damage against any vessel. This is why teams take out the escorts first, because they pose the most threat.
Sorry, I just simply do not agree with you here.
and when escorts are targetted first it makes for easy points from the other team. Escorts cannot handle damage from multiple enemies in pvp, they get cleaned out fast hence making them almost useless. The only times I stand a chance in pvp is when I'm not being targetted at by multiple enemies, which isn't very often.
and when escorts are targetted first it makes for easy points from the other team. Escorts cannot handle damage from multiple enemies in pvp, they get cleaned out fast hence making them almost useless. The only times I stand a chance in pvp is when I'm not being targetted at by multiple enemies, which isn't very often.
I agree with that, just saying they are a big enough threat as is. They do not need a damage buff, they need better survival. Which is why I agreed to giving them a Cloaking device.
I agree with that, just saying they are a big enough threat as is. They do not need a damage buff, they need better survival. Which is why I agreed to giving them a Cloaking device.
I can agree with that, giving them better survivability as opposed to fire power that is. I just don't think escorts are all that useful in arena pvp. C&H pvp I do great with an escort, but in arena, I get targetted by so many opposing players that by the time I get my targets shields down I die, and with all the healing abilities in game what difference does that make?
I think escorts are somewhat underpowered right now (BoPs not so much due to the universal BO slots, which is why I've been flying one), but I think that only small changes are needed.
One obvious change is making Tac Team actually do something. Or add an ensign level cannon ability. That much should be done regardless, and personally I have no idea why it has taken Cryptic so long to fix this situation where the ensign tac slot is by far the weakest BO slot of the bunch. Seems almost incompetent on their part.
Secondly, another obvious change is the vertical inclination cap. Not only does this make things harder for escorts than other ships, but it's simply annoying on the face of it. This has been 'under investigation' for a long time now, but this totally easy fix doesn't seem to be coming anymore. Chalk up another one for incompetence.
I think Cryptic getting on the ball and fixing those two issues with the game will restore the slight imbalance we have right now, if not however, a defense bonus at high speeds would be a good addition. A general defense bonus to escorts would encourage people to sit around, but bonuses at higher speeds would encourage escort players to actually play like escorts and keep on the move.
and when escorts are targetted first it makes for easy points from the other team. Escorts cannot handle damage from multiple enemies in pvp, they get cleaned out fast hence making them almost useless. The only times I stand a chance in pvp is when I'm not being targetted at by multiple enemies, which isn't very often.
I do pretty well when targetted. But then I rarely Pug.
Pugging on the fed side in an escort is about as fun as hitting yourself in the head with a 2x4. It's only fun when you stop.
This has been something I've been really conflicted with a lot lately. I don't like to cry nerf and I'm not going to because I think all of the other ships (except maybe for a few KDF of which I have no experience with) are fine the way they are. I've found it very frusterating lately playing an escort in pvp and having to rely on other ships. I understand that this is an MMO and team work should be supported, however, it's difficult when you don't have team mates that will work with you.
In which case, Cruisers and Sci vessels can last quite a while without having to run and can withstand against mulltiple enemies. This is where I think it gets to be the most frusterating to play and escort, they're usually the top on any pvp groups kill list and they can't handle multiple enemies. Sometimes as I've found with a few matches earlier today, hitting eng batteries with polarize hull and evasive manuevers and even hitting the speed setting on top of it is useless.
To top this off, Escorts can not go toe to toe with a cruiser - You can tell me that my build isn't right, that i'm not good enough of a captain, etc. etc. etc. and I will still stand by this point. I play an Eng in a cruiser and every time an escort comes at me I laugh, seriously, I find them as no threat at all unless they have another ship with them. Then I struggle against other sci vessels or cruisers, so if I'm just not good at flying an escort and I was stupid about how I built it, why is it that I can tear through just about any escort with my cruiser? You'd figure that as long as I've been playing my eng VA cruiser I'd at least come across at least one escort to make me sweat, but that hasn't happened yet.
So what can we do for Escorts to be more of a threat? Here's my suggestion...
I don't think that the other ships should be nerfed, I think they're all fine where they are.
I don't think that Escorts hull or shields should be raised, because that would just make them a smaller version of a cruiser or sci vessel with a little more dps. I personally think we should be given a power that allows us to peirce right through shields or maybe give them an ability that gives you a 100% chance to disable shields.
I don't think this ability should last all that long, I just think we should build on the fire power aspect of the game by applying this to escorts. They need to be more threatening and give cruiser captains a reason to sweat.
Geoff, I found that post I mentioned regarding speed for escorts. Check it out.
I think escorts are somewhat underpowered right now (BoPs not so much due to the universal BO slots, which is why I've been flying one), but I think that only small changes are needed.
One obvious change is making Tac Team actually do something. Or add an ensign level cannon ability. That much should be done regardless, and personally I have no idea why it has taken Cryptic so long to fix this situation where the ensign tac slot is by far the weakest BO slot of the bunch. Seems almost incompetent on their part.
100% agree, I find myself torn on deciding whether or not to respec back to my fleet escort or staying with the defiant retrofit because of this.
Secondly, another obvious change is the vertical inclination cap. Not only does this make things harder for escorts than other ships, but it's simply annoying on the face of it. This has been 'under investigation' for a long time now, but this totally easy fix doesn't seem to be coming anymore. Chalk up another one for incompetence.
Actually I do beleive I've read somewhere that the vertical inclination is going to be increased with the upcoming Season 3 release.
I think Cryptic getting on the ball and fixing those two issues with the game will restore the slight imbalance we have right now, if not however, a defense bonus at high speeds would be a good addition. A general defense bonus to escorts would encourage people to sit around, but bonuses at higher speeds would encourage escort players to actually play like escorts and keep on the move.
I think this is an excellent idea and exactly what we need. I'm not sure if you read it yet but I think this guys idea would be awesome.
This has been something I've been really conflicted with a lot lately. I don't like to cry nerf and I'm not going to because I think all of the other ships (except maybe for a few KDF of which I have no experience with) are fine the way they are. I've found it very frusterating lately playing an escort in pvp and having to rely on other ships. I understand that this is an MMO and team work should be supported, however, it's difficult when you don't have team mates that will work with you.
In which case, Cruisers and Sci vessels can last quite a while without having to run and can withstand against mulltiple enemies. This is where I think it gets to be the most frusterating to play and escort, they're usually the top on any pvp groups kill list and they can't handle multiple enemies. Sometimes as I've found with a few matches earlier today, hitting eng batteries with polarize hull and evasive manuevers and even hitting the speed setting on top of it is useless.
To top this off, Escorts can not go toe to toe with a cruiser - You can tell me that my build isn't right, that i'm not good enough of a captain, etc. etc. etc. and I will still stand by this point. I play an Eng in a cruiser and every time an escort comes at me I laugh, seriously, I find them as no threat at all unless they have another ship with them. Then I struggle against other sci vessels or cruisers, so if I'm just not good at flying an escort and I was stupid about how I built it, why is it that I can tear through just about any escort with my cruiser? You'd figure that as long as I've been playing my eng VA cruiser I'd at least come across at least one escort to make me sweat, but that hasn't happened yet.
So what can we do for Escorts to be more of a threat? Here's my suggestion...
I don't think that the other ships should be nerfed, I think they're all fine where they are.
I don't think that Escorts hull or shields should be raised, because that would just make them a smaller version of a cruiser or sci vessel with a little more dps. I personally think we should be given a power that allows us to peirce right through shields or maybe give them an ability that gives you a 100% chance to disable shields.
I don't think this ability should last all that long, I just think we should build on the fire power aspect of the game by applying this to escorts. They need to be more threatening and give cruiser captains a reason to sweat.
biggest thing you have to do to make the escort viable
FLY IT CORRECTLY
flown correctly the escort is, and always has been, the most powerfully lethal ship in game.
Some possible tweaks that can contribute to this (some of which mentioned in this thread):
Improving the speed defense bonus to avoid damage entirely Dunno about this simply because I hate the fact that avoiding damage in STO means it still graphically hits and just says "miss" or something...
Increasing the importance of Shield Power for resistance and shield recovery
Shield recovery is just as much of a pain as hull recovery. I can go from 0 shields to 100 in a second or two. Increasing shield power would be more ideal. LESSENING shield recovering too!
A bit more shield bleedthrough by default, which brings hull and shield levels down together gradually and allows more time for regeneration to keep a shield up even if the ship's hull suffers a bit NO! Why? I've died continually with shields at like 100%. So much bleedthrough (when I'm not equipped with a heal sometimes) and I literally explode with my shields like never going below 75%. It's ridiculous.
Reducing the effect of hull healing, especially instant heals, to promote slowed health loss in battle rather than ping-pong between extremes Reduce healing. Give it diminishing returns.
Lingering minor ship injuries in combat that can be repaired by Crew, but temporarily bestow small debuffs while active Dunno about this.
Providing Crew functionality that allows the player to focus their effort on damage control, damage recovery, ship efficiency, or bridge efficiency to allow for a bit of extra defense or offense as the situation warrants We already kind of have that with the power levels. It would just add layers to an already COMPLICATED system.
Instead how about this:
An out of combat ONLY ability that sets your crew to repair your ship. Basically you'll quickly repair and regenerate your hull and shields. However, during the activation of this you'll be massively debuffed and for a time after it too (to avoid just running, healing and returning to battle in potentially seconds).
Maybe the debuff is simply like -75 all Power Levels. Maybe it's your shields go down for a minute. Maybe you take 4x damage while repairing. Who knows.
Biggest trouble with escorts is that the Tactical Retrofit has the stealth, so you're cornered into playing it in PvP. If the fleet escort had stealth, it would be a far better built and allow for more self healing and survivability.
The biggest Problem is that 99% of Feds have no clue whatsoever how to use the Cloak properly in PvP... I see the Cloak wasted in PvP time and time again by the Feds whereas the Klingons tend to use the Cloak as an Ambush Skill and use the Cloak wisely...
The Sad part is, if I know there are Defients in the PvP Match... I know EXACTLY what that Fed is going to do with the Cloak and I can Predict his/her exact Movements... I can sense them coming and Prepare my self for their Alpha Strike, so I can fend them off or Destroy them... the Feds that use the Cloak are very predictable...
I challenge you to a duel. My Star Cruiser vs your escort. And *after* I own you over and over, I can tell you to fly your ship correctly.
results of duel, wraiven lost 5 to 0, his star cruiser tried to spam heal but was broken by sheer firepower, repeatedly. trying to stack resists is all well and good, but when you cant see that first 1 shot kill level crit incoming, and thus arent already buffed to the gills, its all over before it begins.
honestly i dont think they need a fix , all that need to change is more cross healing and support from the other fed players , its no the escort failing its role its the cruisers and the sci ships that dont do their support of the damage , wich then leads to whole fedside usually loosing in pvp scenarios...
results of duel, wraiven lost 5 to 0, his star cruiser tried to spam heal but was broken by sheer firepower, repeatedly. trying to stack resists is all well and good, but when you cant see that first 1 shot kill level crit incoming, and thus arent already buffed to the gills, its all over before it begins.
You'll have to prove it before you get my respect, mate. Right now it's all talk.
honestly i dont think they need a fix , all that need to change is more cross healing and support from the other fed players , its no the escort failing its role its the cruisers and the sci ships that dont do their support of the damage , wich then leads to whole fedside usually loosing in pvp scenarios...
I'd agree to that if it wasn't for the point that they don't support the Escorts and that doesn't make it fair for Escort players. I think escorts should be given something for survivability and I think all the people in this thread who have mentioned focusing on manuevers are on to something. I think USS Parallax made a really good thread on the issueand it's a shame that more players haven't really looked at or responded to it.
well could introduce an evade buff based ont he size of your ship so the smaller the ship the higher the evade buff is ... but as far as i can see adding something to escort type ships will mess up premade team balaces eaven more toward the feds then it allready is .... but i agree smaller ships needs something like the evade stuff ..
The state of escorts is the direct result of the RSP nerf,they have less time to deal damage now(before they need to run or die) and cruiser/carrier survivability is around the same or better than what it was(shield/hp buff).Cryptic changed RSP because of the unkillable RSP stacking cruisers but escorts got the short end of the stick.
Escorts are still playable and I have fun with my bop and low level escort so its not that bad.
I think a 5% damage buff would be better for escorts
Escorts already do a hell of alot of damage... if used correctly in a team the Escorts shouldnt have a problem... 2-3 Escorts on one target is very much devastating... Problem is alot of Escorts seem to think they are the "I WIN BUTTON" and go out on their own instead of working as a team... Working in Wolf Packs is the Answer...
results of duel, wraiven lost 5 to 0, his star cruiser tried to spam heal but was broken by sheer firepower, repeatedly. trying to stack resists is all well and good, but when you cant see that first 1 shot kill level crit incoming, and thus arent already buffed to the gills, its all over before it begins.
That's funny, you would be dead before you knew it. A engi in a cruiser that knows how to play is unkillable by single escort.
That's funny, you would be dead before you knew it. A engi in a cruiser that knows how to play is unkillable by single escort.
aswell as being un-killable the Cruiser can be quite powerful DPS wise... I have to steer clear of some Fed Cruisers unless we take them on 3/5 to 1... can be a hell of a fight to kill one if the Captain know what he/she is doing....
Comments
That would be a decent start.
Furthermore giving us an actual Z axis in this game so people wouldn't just park out of our primary damage arc and laugh would help as well. As it stands it takes us longer than anyone else to get back into combat once we either die or have to disengage. This is actually one of the resaons DBB escorts are popular is because it's alot harder for them to be out of arc just due to altitude.
So we'd gain a ton of damage back.
Also tactical officer skills are a little overrated, as are the tac captain skills.
Sorry, I just simply do not agree with you here.
and when escorts are targetted first it makes for easy points from the other team. Escorts cannot handle damage from multiple enemies in pvp, they get cleaned out fast hence making them almost useless. The only times I stand a chance in pvp is when I'm not being targetted at by multiple enemies, which isn't very often.
I agree with that, just saying they are a big enough threat as is. They do not need a damage buff, they need better survival. Which is why I agreed to giving them a Cloaking device.
I can agree with that, giving them better survivability as opposed to fire power that is. I just don't think escorts are all that useful in arena pvp. C&H pvp I do great with an escort, but in arena, I get targetted by so many opposing players that by the time I get my targets shields down I die, and with all the healing abilities in game what difference does that make?
One obvious change is making Tac Team actually do something. Or add an ensign level cannon ability. That much should be done regardless, and personally I have no idea why it has taken Cryptic so long to fix this situation where the ensign tac slot is by far the weakest BO slot of the bunch. Seems almost incompetent on their part.
Secondly, another obvious change is the vertical inclination cap. Not only does this make things harder for escorts than other ships, but it's simply annoying on the face of it. This has been 'under investigation' for a long time now, but this totally easy fix doesn't seem to be coming anymore. Chalk up another one for incompetence.
I think Cryptic getting on the ball and fixing those two issues with the game will restore the slight imbalance we have right now, if not however, a defense bonus at high speeds would be a good addition. A general defense bonus to escorts would encourage people to sit around, but bonuses at higher speeds would encourage escort players to actually play like escorts and keep on the move.
I do pretty well when targetted. But then I rarely Pug.
Pugging on the fed side in an escort is about as fun as hitting yourself in the head with a 2x4. It's only fun when you stop.
Ah man, that's good. I would use that for my sig if I were not trying to find a TNG themed fleet, heh.
Geoff, I found that post I mentioned regarding speed for escorts. Check it out.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3131329&postcount=69
100% agree, I find myself torn on deciding whether or not to respec back to my fleet escort or staying with the defiant retrofit because of this.
Actually I do beleive I've read somewhere that the vertical inclination is going to be increased with the upcoming Season 3 release.
I think this is an excellent idea and exactly what we need. I'm not sure if you read it yet but I think this guys idea would be awesome.
biggest thing you have to do to make the escort viable
FLY IT CORRECTLY
flown correctly the escort is, and always has been, the most powerfully lethal ship in game.
that is all
make it so
resistance is futile
your opinion if different from mine is irrelevant
I challenge you to a duel. My Star Cruiser vs your escort. And *after* I own you over and over, I can tell you to fly your ship correctly.
Thanks, greatly appreciated!
THIS is what we do with Escorts.
Answers in quote.
The biggest Problem is that 99% of Feds have no clue whatsoever how to use the Cloak properly in PvP... I see the Cloak wasted in PvP time and time again by the Feds whereas the Klingons tend to use the Cloak as an Ambush Skill and use the Cloak wisely...
The Sad part is, if I know there are Defients in the PvP Match... I know EXACTLY what that Fed is going to do with the Cloak and I can Predict his/her exact Movements... I can sense them coming and Prepare my self for their Alpha Strike, so I can fend them off or Destroy them... the Feds that use the Cloak are very predictable...
results of duel, wraiven lost 5 to 0, his star cruiser tried to spam heal but was broken by sheer firepower, repeatedly. trying to stack resists is all well and good, but when you cant see that first 1 shot kill level crit incoming, and thus arent already buffed to the gills, its all over before it begins.
You'll have to prove it before you get my respect, mate. Right now it's all talk.
Yes and yes. I hate respawning in an arena to see the action 90k straight above me, but it takes 90 seconds of spiraling upwards to get into range.
I admit running tow copies of tac team I as well on my Defiant. SImply because it was that or 3 copies of HYT.
I'd agree to that if it wasn't for the point that they don't support the Escorts and that doesn't make it fair for Escort players. I think escorts should be given something for survivability and I think all the people in this thread who have mentioned focusing on manuevers are on to something. I think USS Parallax made a really good thread on the issueand it's a shame that more players haven't really looked at or responded to it.
Escorts are still playable and I have fun with my bop and low level escort so its not that bad.
Scratch that. I like an evasion mechanic better. Kinda like how in WoW the DK's evade tank. Something like that.
Escorts already do a hell of alot of damage... if used correctly in a team the Escorts shouldnt have a problem... 2-3 Escorts on one target is very much devastating... Problem is alot of Escorts seem to think they are the "I WIN BUTTON" and go out on their own instead of working as a team... Working in Wolf Packs is the Answer...
That's funny, you would be dead before you knew it. A engi in a cruiser that knows how to play is unkillable by single escort.
aswell as being un-killable the Cruiser can be quite powerful DPS wise... I have to steer clear of some Fed Cruisers unless we take them on 3/5 to 1... can be a hell of a fight to kill one if the Captain know what he/she is doing....