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Tier 6 ships VS Upgradable ships

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
For the record, this is an unofficial poll :D where the players and forum-goers of STO can decide on an important question in one thread, instead of posting all over the forums:

Do we want to keep the current Tier system and continue on with Tier 6 ships at lvl 61, along with another few retrofits?
OR...
Do we want to replace the current Tier system and make a new one that allows players to upgrade their favorite ships, allowing everyone the chance to play their favorite ships all the way through the game?

Poll with start at 2:30 PM GMT -8 today (November 10), and will end at 2:30 PM GMT -8 (December 1). If you think the poll lasts too long, or is too short, say so when you're posting.

Scoring:
2 (you love the idea, and you really want it in-game)
1 (you like the idea, and you want it in-game)
0 (you don't care one way or the other, and could care less if it's in-game or not)
-1 (you don't like the idea, and you don't want it in-game)
-2 (you hate the idea, and you really don't want it in-game)

A few notes:
If you're unsure of your vote and have questions, ask away and when you're satisfied, you can vote then.
I'm not gonna vote on this poll, since it would be unfair to whichever side i voted for ;)
If anyone can get a Dev to watch over this poll, it would greatly help the effectiveness of this poll :D
DO NOT forget to have some discussion in your posts, otherwise this unofficial poll may disappear
Unless the poster says otherwise, pitching an idea to do both ideas above combined counts as one vote for each

Current Total Poll Results (I'll come by every so often to edit the results, so we can keep them up to date :) )
Upgradable Ships: 87
Tier 6 Ships: 13
Post edited by Unknown User on
«134567

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    I am very much in favor of eliminating the Tier System, in favor of upgradeable ships, be it through crafting, or through Level Progression.

    I think opening up additional Tiers does a dis-service to the current Refits in the game, as well as upsetting the people that shelled out money for Refits.

    Plus, this would completely eliminate all the debates on how to use your favorite ship from a lower tier, beyond the Tier where you first were able to fly it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    I have said this should happen all along, but however if this were to be implemented, there would be a loss of revenue for Cryptic, as all the good ships are currently sold in the C-store.

    I hope it goes to the "upgradeable" ships, but I doubt it...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2 most definitely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2!!!

    i would love to get to use the same ship throughout the game. not to mention you could spend time leveling up ships so you dont just get a new max tier. however it would take considerable dev resources.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    1

    to me it has been the central issue of being locked into one type of starship. i have enough points on the ground to not 'suck' and get missions done. i have enough in my ship skills.....but i only seem to even have enough to put into 1 ship type. Am i wrong to want to be able to fly a defiant and then switch to a cruiser on a whim?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    I've always been a fan of the upgradable item way before STO came around. From a character in a tabletop rpg using his signature sword that his father/mother/uncle/college roomate passed on to him, to the toons in other (older) MMOs that still carried obsolete gear because the better gear looked silly or didn't fit the character's motif. Of course, I've always been a fan of RP too. Could you imagine Han Solo ditching his YT-1300 and buying a newer ship because it had better stats? Hell no! He upgraded the heck outta that peice of junk and it became a legend.

    PS: Sorry for the getting my SW in your ST. I find my best analogies there and just can't help myself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    i'm in for it! xD
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'm not sure if it's really possible to eliminate the tier system, as much as I'd like to.

    However, I don't think Tier 6 should be a traditional tier, with only a few ships available to fly. Giving up the diversity to T5 would be a terrible thing. I think Tier 6 should be the tier where you can fly whatever you want, and can upgrade any older ship.

    I mean, some ships are better than their class. The USS Enterprise isn't just a Constitution-Class starship, indistinguishable from the others of it's class. It's the Enterprise. It's not just a ship, it's a legend.

    So, my idea is that at a certain rank, you can upgrade an older ship to Legendary Status, complete with an refit. A Legendary vessel can be from any class, and would gain upgraded special powers, weapons. consoles, and powers slots. This represents the skill of the crew and the toughness of the ship, who are the finest Starfleet (or the Empire) has to offer.

    Legendary ships can be from any class (with Light Cruisers being classified as escorts, and B'Rel's as BoPs). Every Legendary ship would have a retrofit-like special power.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    /10char
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Lysander_X wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it's really possible to eliminate the tier system, as much as I'd like to.

    However, I don't think Tier 6 should be a traditional tier, with only a few ships available to fly. Giving up the diversity to T5 would be a terrible thing. I think Tier 6 should be the tier where you can fly whatever you want, and can upgrade any older ship.

    I mean, some ships are better than their class. The USS Enterprise isn't just a Constitution-Class starship, indistinguishable from the others of it's class. It's the Enterprise. It's not just a ship, it's a legend.

    So, my idea is that at a certain rank, you can upgrade an older ship to Legendary Status, complete with an refit. A Legendary vessel can be from any class, and would gain upgraded special powers, weapons. consoles, and powers slots. This represents the skill of the crew and the toughness of the ship, who are the finest Starfleet (or the Empire) has to offer.

    Legendary ships can be from any class (with Light Cruisers being classified as escorts, and B'Rel's as BoPs). Every Legendary ship would have a retrofit-like special power.

    I love this idea Immensily...

    I bought the TOS Constitution version of this game when it first came out thinking I would be able to fly this (My Favorite) vessel throughout the entire game... :)

    It was very disappointing to discover that it was a very low level ship and not upgradeable. :(
    (BTW: I've moved my Blue phasers to every ship I've used)

    Don't get me wrong.... I still love STO a lot and play almost every day, I just found this particular aspect of the game-play to be a very big let down.

    If I had my druthers I'd pick the above... but for the poll... 2 would be my choice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Theoretically I find the idea compelling, but I don't believe that "crafting"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    my vote is for removing tiers completely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I can see it both ways... I don't want tier 6, but I also don't want Connies flying around at T5. But I think, Ideally, we would have the tier system, and just be able to retrofit our favorite Star Ship at high cost (Free First time) or something like that. Personally, I see no reason to make ships more powerful just because the characters are a new level. I am not in favor of either of these ideas. So if cryptic is paying attention, find a better solution. I didn't dump ten million energy credits and hours of grinding into my starship just have it outdated the next time the level cap increased.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    0

    maybe in planning the treatment of ships in STO, we should look at LOTRO's legendary item system.

    currently, we replace our weapons each time we level. this was the way things were in LOTRO until they introduced legendary weapons, weapons that grew with you as you leveled.

    i'm on the fence about whether this is good or not... a new rank is exciting because you get a totally new ship to deck out.

    so even tho i'd like to maybe fight at T6 in a tier 2 cruiser or a Sovereign, LOTRO's legendary weapons can get monotonous.... using the same ax for 10 levels...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Blyn wrote:
    0

    maybe in planning the treatment of ships in STO, we should look at LOTRO's legendary item system.

    currently, we replace our weapons each time we level. this was the way things were in LOTRO until they introduced legendary weapons, weapons that grew with you as you leveled.

    i'm on the fence about whether this is good or not... a new rank is exciting because you get a totally new ship to deck out.

    so even tho i'd like to maybe fight at T6 in a tier 2 cruiser or a Sovereign, LOTRO's legendary weapons can get monotonous.... using the same ax for 10 levels...

    Ok, but honestly, this is the same as keeping it at MK VII. The only thing it changes is not having to buy the new weapons. And it makes so once you get one, you would never have to change your weapons ever again if you didnt want to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    3.141592654....

    I really want T6 to be a separate gameplay experience that requires fleets to construct.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    We have enough ships already, and I really can't live with the thought that Cryptic could "design" a new ship class...

    Upgradeable ships. All of them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    +47 up to a point, the Tier System as it is is a Pain in the (Aft Matter Expultion Portal) but it unlocks more ships to use so yes keep that aspect, upgradeing the ships to whatever level you are at the time should be good,

    Geting lower level ship parts like from a Miranda class to be used with a Galaxy class hull or vice veser would be a mater of art work scale and a big list with parts unlocked, I would like to see a this with the klingon bird of pray wings that would look great, but I think STO is not yet ready for the ugly salvaged junk ships with mixed klingon and federation parts just yet,

    As for the C-store having limitations on there ships is understandable but thay should not be to bad, I bet sooner or later the C-store will sell cosmetic hull skin packs that make a ship look oddly cool, so we will get ships that look like things are stuck to the hull, parisites, blobs of bio-matter, blocks of Ice or fire, torn up hull plateing that douse not fade with fixing the ship,

    As for Tier 6 ships the more the better I say, after all Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations is fun,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Martok42 wrote: »
    I can see it both ways... I don't want tier 6, but I also don't want Connies flying around at T5. But I think, Ideally, we would have the tier system, and just be able to retrofit our favorite Star Ship at high cost (Free First time) or something like that. Personally, I see no reason to make ships more powerful just because the characters are a new level. I am not in favor of either of these ideas. So if cryptic is paying attention, find a better solution. I didn't dump ten million energy credits and hours of grinding into my starship just have it outdated the next time the level cap increased.

    I made a proposal a couple days ago for a crafting method to upgrade ships, which I believe gives players a chance to make the TOS Connie more powerful and more effective, without pushing it into Tier 5 and making it far more powerful than it should be.

    Take a look:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3144377&postcount=1

    (Pay particular attention to the example at the bottom for a Tier 1 Centaur)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I would like to see a third option:

    All ships should have weapon, console, and BO slots that are competative with the end game ships. However the base stats (speed, turn, hull, crew, subsystem bonuses) improve as tier increases.

    Further limitations on lower tier captains come from BO promotion limits and the level banding on equipable gear.

    Once this is done you have a system where as you level up you gain access to better ships, but the degree to the ship itself improves is less signifigant than the increased access to bridge officer powers and higher level equipment.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Theoretically I find the idea compelling, but I don't believe that "crafting"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Mineria wrote:
    In the current system i have to wait until the dev's decide to make the refit i want to use, and their is no guarantee that they will make the one i want at the next tier. And what happens for tier 6 defiant retrofit refit? tier 7, Defiant upgrade retrofit refit? each time i am left hoping that the devs choose to create the appearance that i like or i am boned and left to settle for a ship i don't like as much.

    I whole-heartedly agree with you on this point.

    Having to wait and see if the Devs come up with a Refit for your favorite ship, is maddening.

    And there is no guarentee that you will ever see it!

    Some of my most favorite ships, exist in Tier 1 and 2 for example. I am a huge fan of the TOS Connie, but I also really love the Centaur class, Nova class and the Constitution Class Refit. I also really liked the looks of the Excalibur class, and some of the Vesper class options. (Not the saucer, but the rest of the ship.)

    I can see why people get upset about upgrading the TOS Connie and the Constitution Class Refit. These are ships from a bygone era. I get that.

    But what about the Nova and Sabre classes? These ships are only 30 or so years old by 2409. There is no reason why these ships couldn't undergo a refit to boost them up. And the Excalibur and Vesper classes are less than 10 years old. Why do they have to be so weak? Would people be really bent out of shape at seeing these ships at Vice Admiral?

    But, in order to see these ships, they need an upgrade. 1 or 2 Weapon Slots, some additional Bridge Officer abilities and some consoles.

    That's why I support upgradeable ships so fervently. So that I can fly ships I enjoy, without having them be as weak as they are at the lower Tiers. I don't like being forced into ships that either are not appealing to me, or I really hate, just because it is necessary for gameplay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I whole-heartedly agree with you on this point.

    Having to wait and see if the Devs come up with a Refit for your favorite ship, is maddening.

    And there is no guarentee that you will ever see it!

    Some of my most favorite ships, exist in Tier 1 and 2 for example. I am a huge fan of the TOS Connie, but I also really love the Centaur class, Nova class and the Constitution Class Refit. I also really liked the looks of the Excalibur class, and some of the Vesper class options. (Not the saucer, but the rest of the ship.)

    I can see why people get upset about upgrading the TOS Connie and the Constitution Class Refit. These are ships from a bygone era. I get that.

    But what about the Nova and Sabre classes? These ships are only 30 or so years old by 2409. There is no reason why these ships couldn't undergo a refit to boost them up. And the Excalibur and Vesper classes are less than 10 years old. Why do they have to be so weak? Would people be really bent out of shape at seeing these ships at Vice Admiral?

    But, in order to see these ships, they need an upgrade. 1 or 2 Weapon Slots, some additional Bridge Officer abilities and some consoles.

    That's why I support upgradeable ships so fervently. So that I can fly ships I enjoy, without having them be as weak as they are at the lower Tiers. I don't like being forced into ships that either are not appealing to me, or I really hate, just because it is necessary for gameplay.

    It's even worse when you take KDF ships into account. Why is the refit Connie T2, and the K'Ting'a T3? They were introduced in the same movie, for god's sake.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Lysander_X wrote: »
    It's even worse when you take KDF ships into account. Why is the refit Connie T2, and the K'Ting'a T3? They were introduced in the same movie, for god's sake.

    As well as the D-7 being a T3 option, when the TOS Connie is limited to T1.

    I can totally agree with the people who say the TOS Connie shouldn't be T5. I'm fine with that. But why can't it be T3, where it's survivability is significant enough that if you really want to fly it at VA, you can, without it being overpowered?

    Upgradeable ships would go a long ways to taking care of these issues.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    All you speculators know that there isn't going to be a T6 right? T5 is the max for ships, sure we'll be able to have increased lvl caps for our captains, but the ships aren't changing. There have been several dev posts where they have stated there will be no T6 ships. What's the point of adding all these refit T5 ships if T6 is just around the corner?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    barely a day has passed, and this unofficial poll is already popular :D keep up the votes and the discussion guys and girls! :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2 - I would prefer upgrading my ships and outfitting my crew's BOFF slots as I saw fit. Having a ship level with you would be awesome. But there still needs to be some restrictive property. Giving a Lt command of a Sovereign would be rediculous.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    2

    I'd love to upgrade my ships. i've spent a lot of time with each one in my collection and would love to bring some new life to my ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Trek17 wrote:
    barely a day has passed, and this unofficial poll is already popular :D keep up the votes and the discussion guys and girls! :)

    I'm curious as to why the Devs haven't talked about this issue at all, be it in interviews, or here in the forums, or in the Engineering Reports.

    It's not like this is a particularly new topic, and based on all the various threads (including this one) it is an issue that people have an interest in.

    I would really love to see some sort of information on this topic, even if it was a "We have no plans at this time to go in this direction."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    ashgrey77 wrote: »
    All you speculators know that there isn't going to be a T6 right? T5 is the max for ships, sure we'll be able to have increased lvl caps for our captains, but the ships aren't changing. There have been several dev posts where they have stated there will be no T6 ships. What's the point of adding all these refit T5 ships if T6 is just around the corner?

    I seem to recall a Dev post that pointed to a redesigning of the ships instead of a new class. The Dev said that there would be some BO and console changes, but the Tiers would remain as is.
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