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cloaking klingons

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
i just woke up to this not long ago :confused: in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed ! no shields meaning greater damage. as l have observed in game though when klingon players do this they seem to be amuned to this affect. no not to be a stick in the mud but if they want to uses this attribute they must suffer the ramifcations of there choises.its only a game but as so many klingon players cry about they don't have this or don't have that it's time to suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way.:p so CRYPTIC fix this bug up if you truly are following cannon!!!!!!
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    In case you missed the memo, Canon left when the Galaxy-X showed up. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Actually klingons did'n take more damage than uncloaked, but when cloaked/uncloaking they did'n have the protection of their shield, as you mentioned, not even the minimum, so they were more open to damage.

    This is also the case in the game, as the shields go down when you cloak, and get hit by weapons: You take damage faster than with shields.

    I fly a retrofit Defiant btw... So while I have no klingon char, I do have a little expirience with the cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Gatness wrote: »
    In case you missed the memo, Canon left when the Galaxy-X showed up. :p

    Canon left the building when the Constitution-class was "reactivated" for the game. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Archanubis wrote:
    Canon left the building when the Constitution-class was "reactivated" for the game. ;)

    Well we did see the wreckage of a constitution at wolf 359, so its at least plausible, the X on the other hand was only ever seen in a future that would never likely happen according to Q.

    All that aside though the fact is Canon is well and truly gone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Archanubis wrote:
    Canon left the building when the Constitution-class was "reactivated" for the game. ;)

    Isn't the Miranda even older then the Constitution class?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    STARSEED wrote: »
    in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed !
    You might want to watch ST:VI again. It took several torpedoes of both the Enterprise and the Excelsior to destroy Chang's Bird-of-Prey.

    That aside: Balancing. BoP's are extremely fragile already once they've lost shields. And one-hit-kills are never fun. ;)
    Gatness wrote: »
    Well we did see the wreckage of a constitution at wolf 359, so its at least plausible
    Then again, it was stated in a later episode that the last working Connie was put in a museum.
    Meynolt wrote: »
    Isn't the Miranda even older then the Constitution class?
    Nope. At least not older than the non-refit variant.

    Actually, they even showed up with fresh NCC registries in DS9. It's a very old design, though, and clearly gradually phased out of duty or relegated to less dangerous tasks. We did see Mirandas in TNG becoming freighters and colony transports, for example (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class).

    It's just that the Dominion War forced Starfleet to give all that they had, including refitting courier ships into "attack fighters" ... or bringing in squadrons of old Mirands. Just like the Constitution mentioned by Gatness probably only showed up at Wolf 359 because the Borg were a major threat and the ship was in range to join the (hastly assembled) fleet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    STARSEED wrote: »
    i just woke up to this not long ago :confused: in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed ! no shields meaning greater damage. as l have observed in game though when klingon players do this they seem to be amuned to this affect. no not to be a stick in the mud but if they want to uses this attribute they must suffer the ramifcations of there choises.its only a game but as so many klingon players cry about they don't have this or don't have that it's time to suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way.:p so CRYPTIC fix this bug up if you truly are following cannon!!!!!!

    If you get they shots off before the klingon cloaks, you shots should continue to follow and damage said klingon player. If said Klingon player is able to cloak prior to you attacks being launched then said shots will be factored after the cloaking and rendered null/void in effect by the game mechanics.
    Also said Klingon before cloaking may have activated PH or HE + Aux2Sif and boosted thier HULL restances high enough to just survive the attacks after cloaking.
    Contrary to popular belief, cloaking does not make one immune to damage, but there is a sequence to combat attacks and if you attack close to or just seconds after I've activated my cloaking then your attacks will follow me but have no effect as they lost acquisistion and are just playing out the graphics to conclusion.
    If I am still within 10km and cloak then your shots will have full effect upon me and I will not have shields to help me survive, though I can still have boosted my resistances prior to cloaking to help myself survive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    STARSEED wrote: »
    i just woke up to this not long ago :confused: in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed ! no shields meaning greater damage. as l have observed in game though when klingon players do this they seem to be amuned to this affect. no not to be a stick in the mud but if they want to uses this attribute they must suffer the ramifcations of there choises.its only a game but as so many klingon players cry about they don't have this or don't have that it's time to suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way.:p so CRYPTIC fix this bug up if you truly are following cannon!!!!!!

    Watch Star Trek Generations.

    *Spoilers*

    Lursa and B'Etor are killed in their BoP when their shields are down for a split second due to cloaking.

    Source
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Watch Star Trek Generations.

    *Spoilers*

    Lursa and B'Etor are killed in their BoP when their shields are down for a split second due to cloaking.

    Source

    And your point is?

    What? don't you think the Enterprise could roll a crit against a shieldless opponent once and awhile?

    I don't see how a lucky or well landed strike against an unprepared opponent should be make it canon that BoP explode like pinto's upon impact with something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    And your point is?

    What? don't you think the Enterprise could roll a crit against a shieldless opponent once and awhile?

    I don't see how a lucky or well landed strike against an unprepared opponent should be make it canon that BoP explode like pinto's upon impact with something.

    They targeted their 'main reactor' which I can only presume to be their warp core. A torp up your core would definitely cause such an explosion. Also, I just brought this clip up because the OP mentioned the lack of Klingons cloaking and recloaking, and this was the closest I could find.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Lursa and B'Etor are killed in their BoP when their shields are down for a split second due to cloaking.

    Lursa and B'Etor Lursa and B'Etor's D12 BoP was a ship that was removed from service because of plasma Coils, wich in turn was a part of their cloaking device.

    It stands to reason, that this "defect" might have had an influence in the destruction. Also remember that the Enterprise and that said BoP did exchange fire for a while before it was destroyed, and while their shileds were intact there can have been other influences such as weakend SIF. Also remember that it isn't completely irrelevant where you hit.

    Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35brUCRkgIk

    EDIT: Btw: Notice the little boy in the first evacuation scene is wearing a [Tribble (Stahl)]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    One shot kills when the story calls for it, multiple shots when the writers want a little more action.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Watch Star Trek Generations.

    *Spoilers*

    Lursa and B'Etor are killed in their BoP when their shields are down for a split second due to cloaking.

    Source

    Sure, but we've seen the USS Grissom being killed by a single lucky shot in Star Trek III.
    And in that movie when the Bird of Prey decloaked during its attack on the Enterprise, Scotty greeted it with two torps before its shields went up.
    It did not evaporate so it's really not just a matter whether you hit, but where.
    The only thing comparable to that in STO would be a critical that does a lote more damage than usual.
    This would correspond to hitting a critical system in Star Trek.
    So the hit reactor in Star Trek VII could correspond to a big critical to the hull by a torpedo, which is still
    possible in STO, you can still do tremendous amounts of damage with a crit.:)

    However as per Trek canon, it is not ALWAYS the case that shields trop completely when the ship cloaks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckPtvamv65U

    around 6:30 take a look as the Bird of Prey cloaks while the other keeps firing at it.
    Maybe it was also tahe case in ST VII because the ship was outdated (as mentioned in the movie) so that might be another problem of the older ships: they have to drop shields before cloaking while newer ships can (if they want to) keep the capacitors for their shield generators pumping energy into the shields while the reactor alread channels the energy into the cloak.
    Or it's just the authors not knowing what they're doing, as usual.:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Or it could be that if cloaking granted immunity in game it would cause fed players to scream for a nerf. Or what Roach said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Watch Star Trek Generations.

    *Spoilers*

    Lursa and B'Etor are killed in their BoP when their shields are down for a split second due to cloaking.

    Source

    So does that mean that any shot against a Federation nacelle should be an insta kill as well, since there are canon sources that support that?

    Example:
    Destruction of the Grissom by Kruge – Star Trek III: The Search for Spock

    As I have mentioned before, be very careful on what you want translated from shows/movies direct to the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Now that you mention it - wasn't that how the Enterprise got destroyed in that TNG timeloop with the Romulan Warbird? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    They targeted their 'main reactor' which I can only presume to be their warp core. A torp up your core would definitely cause such an explosion. Also, I just brought this clip up because the OP mentioned the lack of Klingons cloaking and recloaking, and this was the closest I could find.

    easy not pointing fingers. Just trying to show that it could have been a critical hit for all we know that destroyed the BoP in question and not a factor involving the design of the BoP, or any inherent weaknessess there of.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    After watching the clip I wont fly a D12 BoP in PVP thats for sure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    STARSEED wrote: »
    i just woke up to this not long ago :confused: in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed ! no shields meaning greater damage. as l have observed in game though when klingon players do this they seem to be amuned to this affect. no not to be a stick in the mud but if they want to uses this attribute they must suffer the ramifcations of there choises.its only a game but as so many klingon players cry about they don't have this or don't have that it's time to suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way.:p so CRYPTIC fix this bug up if you truly are following cannon!!!!!!


    LOL

    Do you also want to remove the ability to stealth from Feds? How about the fact that nearly every Fed bridge has a Klingon Officer (or even Captain)? shouldnt they be removed as well? I can understand a few staying Fed but thousands?

    oh.. would also mean missing out on a number of Fed ships as they are not in line with the Cannon you want fixed...

    Borg would be scarey, taking full groups to kill a cube in any encounter not just the stf's

    Lists for Cannon go on and on..

    But,

    I guess some Klingon just ****ed on your Cornflakes in PvP and now you come here to *****?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    STARSEED wrote: »
    i just woke up to this not long ago :confused: in cannon when a klingon ship is going in or out of cloak and it is hit with weapons fire it is distroyed ! no shields meaning greater damage. as l have observed in game though when klingon players do this they seem to be amuned to this affect. no not to be a stick in the mud but if they want to uses this attribute they must suffer the ramifcations of there choises.its only a game but as so many klingon players cry about they don't have this or don't have that it's time to suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way.:p so CRYPTIC fix this bug up if you truly are following cannon!!!!!!

    Canon is for tv shows sometimes. Not games, maybe you should be the one to "suck it up and learn you can't have everything yuor way"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    alkem wrote: »
    One shot kills when the story calls for it, multiple shots when the writers want a little more action.

    this post is exactly right !!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Even in ST 6, it took several torp shots from both Enterprise AND Excelsior to completely destroy Chang's shieldless BoP. Scene is 6min into the vid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KBHVKUMLaY

    A tough BoP is canon, so what needs to change is...improved hull strength.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Even in ST 6, it took several torp shots from both Enterprise AND Excelsior to completely destroy Chang's shieldless BoP. Scene is 6min into the vid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KBHVKUMLaY

    A tough BoP is canon, so what needs to change is...improved hull strength.

    :cool:

    5K - 8K more hull points for the BOP would be nice :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Even in ST 6, it took several torp shots from both Enterprise AND Excelsior to completely destroy Chang's shieldless BoP. Scene is 6min into the vid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KBHVKUMLaY

    A tough BoP is canon, so what needs to change is...improved hull strength.

    :cool:

    While were at it, its canon to add those klingon torpedos. You know the ones were it only took three shots to do massive damage to the Enterprise :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Unfortunately, Canon for the Star Trek Universe changes and is as variable as a Targ in heat. There is some, but not much consistency in the shows and movies on how things work. This is due to several influences. One influence is different writers (and some who really didn't have much clue what Star Trek was about, past and present), different times..

    when the original series was written most of what was written was just pure flights of imagination and a somewhat.. fanciful, representation of the times. As we got into the movies, and then into the 4 other TV series there was a lot of... tom foolery... with ships, weapons etc. As was said before by someone in this thread. Longer battles took place for excitement, 1 hit kills for the wow factor.

    What had changed a bit though in the later series was that the writers started trying to follow a progression somewhat to make an incoherent whole.. a bit more coherent. When you consider that very few of the shows actually had much if any coherency between them, and even within them, it isn't surprising that we have a hard time pinpointing things that are truly canon -vs- things that are borderline, or simply not.

    You also have to take into consideration the balancing of a large multi-player, dual faction game and the difficulties that entails all by itself. The Dev's do the best they can, knowing full well that they won't be able to make everyone happy by doing it. Mistakes and outright goofs of canon can and will slip in, simply because sometimes that is the only way you can make things work in a balanced manner.

    That is my take on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just be glad you Feddies aren't subject to Cloaked Kamikaze Klingons! Cloaked + ramming speed? BANZAI!!!!!
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