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Impulse-Engines on Warp?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Hello there,

Every time i am in on the sector-map i wonder, that the red lights of the impulse engines glow on warp too. I think this is wrong, isn't it?
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Hello there,

    Every time i am in on the sector-map i wonder, that the red lights of the impulse engines glow on warp too. I think this is wrong, isn't it?

    I'd presume at warp you'd use all engines (I'm just guessing but it's an educated guess), you are trying to get a large ship to over the speed of light, when an object reaches light speed it starts to gain 7 times it's own weight, so to get an object as large as a starship to travel faster than the speed of light you'll need ad much propulsion as possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Hello there,

    Every time i am in on the sector-map i wonder, that the red lights of the impulse engines glow on warp too. I think this is wrong, isn't it?

    Only the new film has shown that impulse engines shut down when going to warp. In all other series and films they remain on while at warp. However what I'd like to see is only the warp trails appear while in sector space, and the impulse trails while in a star system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Frankly...I have no idea.

    Why do the warp engines live a trail at sublight speeds, as well? It looks rather odd in both cases.

    I suspect that the trail system in the STO game engine is either on or off, all or nothing.


    There are no settings to let you turn one on and the other off, or vice verse.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I believe the canonical way that Warp Engines work is that they just create the Warp Field, which reduces the Mass of the Ship and increases the speed of light within the warp field bubble, they provide no actual forward movement, so the impulse engines still provide movement to the ship, it's just know with the Warp field helping them they travel at ridiculous speeds.
    I'm not 100% sure on this though.

    Edit: Re: CaptLuci, as you approach the speed of light, your MOMENTUM increases, not your MASS. It also increases to INFINITE, which means that as you approach the speed of light, i requires more energy to maintain the same acceleration, to the point you need infinite energy to reach the speed of light - one of the reasons that FTL travel is thought to be conventionally impossible.
    Sorry for that, when you through undergrad Physics, uninformed physics can get on your nerves
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think in game it is just the way the art dept has it.:cool:

    However, the impulse engines are not needed at warp.
    The nacells create a warp field around the ship esentially moving the ship ionto subspace. However, the warp field energy is layered, and it is the movment of these layers that propell the ship forward.

    Quote:
    "The key to the creation of non newtonian methods ie propultion not dependant on the exhausting reaction products, lay in the concept of nesting many layers of warp field energy, each layer exerting a contolled amount of force against its next-outermost neighbor. The cumulative effect of the force applied drives the vehicle forward."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    sltdg wrote: »
    I believe the canonical way that Warp Engines work is that they just create the Warp Field, which reduces the Mass of the Ship and increases the speed of light within the warp field bubble, they provide no actual forward movement, so the impulse engines still provide movement to the ship, it's just know with the Warp field helping them they travel at ridiculous speeds.
    I'm not 100% sure on this though.

    I have read in a few places such as the Next Generation Technical manual that this is the explination. When the warp field fails, the ship drops out of warp. While the physics are dubious at best, inertia would imply that when the engines fail while at warp, the ship should keep moving at the same speed. If one was to believe that the field reduces the effective mass of the ship, then less energy is required to move it at warp speed. When the field collapses, the mass returns to normal, and the total speed drops. A example would be trying to move a bowling ball using the same amount of energy that is in a very fast moving pachinko ball(small metallic ball used in Japanese arcade games).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Actually, the impulse engines are still lit because they provide the thrust to move the ship, even while the warp drive is engaged.

    The warp drive itself has no real method for actually MOVING the ship, what the warp drive does is create the warp field that allows the thrust from the impulse drive to push the ship to faster than light velocity. I can give a more detailed explaination if people want, but that's the reason right there ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The driver coils in the impulse engine also envelops the vessel in a subspace field that is intended to lighten the relative mass of the starship. This reduces the mass burden on the impulse drive significantly, and allows for a higher rate of acceleration.

    The driver coils also act like a sustainer field and would allow the starship to keep traveling at warp speed (decreasingly) for a time. For example this is designed to happen on Galaxy-class starships when the saucer section separates from the stardrive section while at warp. The saucer can still go for a time at warp before dropping out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Hello there,

    Every time i am in on the sector-map i wonder, that the red lights of the impulse engines glow on warp too. I think this is wrong, isn't it?

    Don't the Impluse Engines run the Power supplies for the ship? Life Support, Operational Power, Lighting, things like that? Warp only moves you the long distances Place to Place, right??
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The "trails" are there for one reason only. So you know you're moving in a debrisless map. Actually that's why there's so many rocks and pieces of flotsam and jetsam in the various systems as well. As the Hitchhiker's Guide tells us.. "Space is big... really big".. without local points of reference, it's easy to perceive your ship as standing still, or barely moving.

    The trails were added to show that you're moving, and by their length, how fast.

    I agree though, I'd like to see the "blue" Nacelle trails turned off for system-space travel. The "red" trails in Sector Space don't bother me as much, for the reason vawlkus spelled out. The Nacelles generate the warp field, and it's the Impulse Engines that provide the thrust.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The impulse engines do not provide thrust at warp. Impulse engines still work on newtonian priciples of thrust. The warp field that envelops the ship at warp speeds is comprised of layers. It is the force that these layers exert on each other that move the ship. All the impulse engines are doing at this point is providing power to some of the ships systems. The warp core, as well as producing the power for the warp field, provide main power to the ship as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Timmyyy wrote: »
    The impulse engines do not provide thrust at warp. Impulse engines still work on newtonian priciples of thrust. The warp field that envelops the ship at warp speeds is comprised of layers. It is the force that these layers exert on each other that move the ship. All the impulse engines are doing at this point is providing power to some of the ships systems. The warp core, as well as producing the power for the warp field, provide main power to the ship as well.

    Well it's all make believe anyways. My point was just that I have less problem with the red trails in sector space, than I have with the blue trails in system space. Admittedly, I dont' actually care all that much, but I do like the idea of a visual difference between the way the trails look at Impulse Speeds versus Warp Speeds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Timmyyy wrote: »
    The impulse engines do not provide thrust at warp. Impulse engines still work on newtonian priciples of thrust.

    Rick Sternbach said this in relation as to why the Nebula-class has no impulse engines:
    One of the rationalizations I imagined ages ago for having no obvious impulse grilles involved capturing and compressing the impulse fusion reaction exhaust and later releasing it from special non-propulsive ports. If the Nebula class was employed in a stealthy surveillance mode, it would be smart to minimize all overboard emissions. Since most all “modern” impulse engines involve little or no pure rocket thrust, but more of a sub-warp drive, one could say that the familiar orange Starfleet glowy exhausts could be modified or eliminated.

    Source: Doug Drexler's blog
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    As in the other thread, canon indicates the Impulse engines are what moves the ship. The warp engines merely fold space.

    Now that was the original Trek. Don't know how far they've twisted the classics since then.
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