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What do you think of species specific space combat powers?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
As you can see, the question is in the title of the thread, which comes from one of the recent ideas I had to improve space combat and increase the difference between factions, taking into account that in future, new factions will be added to the game.

Just to be clear, when I say "What do you think of species specific space combat powers?", I'm talking about each available species within the game having one unique space power of their own, to be used in combat. I wasn't really thinking about traits when I first thought of this, but I guess that if this idea were to be implemented, each species could be updated with one new additional trait, for space combat, to be used as a power, which can be activated. I'm definitely not talking about space traits, such as the "Efficient Captain" trait, as that is an example of a passive trait, meaning that it is active all of the time, without player intervention.

So as an example, if you choose to play a Human character, you would have one space power to use that only Human characters can use.


I firmly believe that balance doesn't need to be 100% perfect, but I do believe that every power within the game should be able to be countered by another power in the game, to a degree. I also believe that balance in game is a variable, and never guaranteed, due to the amount of powers that currently exist. For example, you'll never enter a PvP battle knowing which powers your enemies or even your allies (if you don't know them) are using in their build, so you're not guaranteed a balanced match.

I also personally prefer that this be the case, as balance is an unrealistic factor in Star Trek, but I also realise that it is necessary to a degree, because STO is a game, anyway, on to the point of this thread.


I think that this idea would benefit the currently existing factions, as well as any future factions and the species that are available to play, as well as the players who choose to play them, because I believe that diversity is not really represented in STO at present in regards to powers and this idea would rectify that issue. You may have chosen a Vulcan character, but it's only your pointed ears, your hair style and your ground traits that set you apart from any other species in the game, so if your Vulcan character had one new additional space combat power, your characters species would then have it's uniqueness enhanced.

If each species had their own unique ability, specifically separating them from every other race in the game, then the factions in STO would become more unique, and I think this would be a good thing. I know that the Federation and the Klingon factions are not equal to each other in anyway at present, but they are similar in many aspects, even more so now that the KDF will be able to soon "craft" the exact same items as the Federation in a very similar (optional) way, so I think my point is that the greater the difference between the factions now and in the future, the better.


So please, discuss this idea, and if you like this idea, please feel free to suggest ideas for the unique space combat power that each species could potentially have in a future update.


P.S. I know the skill tree would be effected if this idea were to be implemented, please discuss and have a great day, thanks for reading!
:)
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alecto, do you mean like "The Picard Maneuver" or "The Riker Maneuver"?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    ThetaNine; in a way yes I do, but from what I know of those maneuvers from watching the show or movie, they were thought up by two humans, and what I'm suggesting, is that each species could potentially have one unique special power to use in space combat, much like the maneuvers you brought up, but specifically unique to the species.

    Cryptic couldn't use names such as "The Picard Maneuver" for a species specific power, because as a power, that maneuver would be listed in the computer database for any Captain to look up and use when needed, well that's how I'm guessing it would work in Star Trek.


    I recently read that the Devs would like to make the profession's, Engineering, Science and Tactical more unique, and we already know that as officers gain experience, they learn their own unique special powers for both ground and space combat depending on which profession the officer has chosen. This is what gave me the idea for species specific space powers.

    • Federation faction species list:

      • Default:

        • Human.

        • Andorian.

        • Bajoran.

        • Benzite.

        • Betazoid.

        • Bolian.

        • Saurian.

        • Trill.

        • Vulcan.

        • Alien.

      • C-Store:

        • Joined Trill.

        • Caitian.

        • Ferengi.

        • Klingon.

        • Pakled.

        • Rigelian.

        • Tellarite.

      • Lifetime subscriber:

        • Liberated Borg Human.

      • Mission Bonus:

        • Breen.


    • Klingon faction species list:

      • Default:
        • Klingon.

        • Gorn.

        • Lethean.

        • Nausicaan.

        • Orion.

        • Alien.

      • C-Store:

        • Joined Trill.

      • Lifetime subscriber:

        • Liberated Borg Klingon.

      • Mission Bonus:

        • Breen.

    I am suggesting that each of the above species have their own individual unique space power, that can be activated, much like Attack Pattern Alpha, Rotate Shield Frequency, or Sensor Scan.

    Although, it is quite obvious that the Klingon faction definitely needs more playable species added to the list.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    More space combat powers are in general good in my opinion.

    Tying them to species, which have been selected for different reasons during the creation of characters, is however problematic in my opinion, since you can not "reskill" your species and your characters should also not become a suboptimal <insert class name here> just because they belong to species X instead of species Z.

    Do not take this as critics on the idea in general.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alecto,

    Interesting idea. I actually applaud your concept of unique space powers, and for that matter ground as well, defined by the species you are. However, when trying to think of one I can't. Therein lies the only problem. What about Humans as specie would give them some special power that no other species could duplicate? That's a lot tougher than it sounds. Perhaps if you could give some examples of your own it would help me "see" the direction you intend.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Woril; that is a good point, if this idea did appear in a future update, player characters would receive one new space power, and the power their characters receive would depend on which species their characters are. However, this concept, if implemented at some point in the future would encourage players to experiment with new characters, both in Starfleet and in the KDF, while also promoting the use of species which are not as popular at present.

    Also, in Star Trek different alien species can simply do things that other species can not, which is what makes them unique, but at present that element in STO is not entirely represented and could be fully represented using this idea. Lastly, no species is perfect, so if a character were to become "suboptimal", it would become an accurate representation of it's canon Star Trek counterpart, but the discussion on this part of the topic really does depend on what the powers allow.



    Commodore_Stipe; here below, is one example of a space power that could become unique to the Human species.

    1. Trait: Human Ingenuity.

      • Basic Information.
        • Game Description: Inspires an ingenious idea to solve a problem, leading to the removal of tactical debuffs, science debuffs and the repair of disabled systems.
        • Races: Human (Required).

      • Detailed Information.
        • Used by: Captain
        • Target: Self
        • Category: Space
        • System: Crew
        • Ability Type: Cleanse
        • Activation: 1.0 seconds
        • Range: N/A
        • Shares cooldown with: Miracle Worker (240s / 4m)
        • Starts cooldown on: Self or Miracle Worker
        • Modified by:
          • Skills
            • Tactical Team Leader
            • Tactics
            • Science Team Leader
            • Engineering Team Leader
            • Starship Engine Maintenance
          • Stats
            • Able Crewmen

      • Bonus.
        • Removes tactical debuffs, science debuffs and repairs disabled systems over 5 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Ok I see now.

    So a trait like Vulcan Analysis:

    Space trait your training in logic and analysis allows yout somewhat anticipate the flow of battle. This effectively gives you +10% to accuracy and defense for the duration of the buff. 60 seconc duration and 2 minutes cool down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think that spaceships are run by crews - not a single race.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alecto,

    Interesting idea. I actually applaud your concept of unique space powers, and for that matter ground as well, defined by the species you are. However, when trying to think of one I can't. Therein lies the only problem. What about Humans as specie would give them some special power that no other species could duplicate? That's a lot tougher than it sounds. Perhaps if you could give some examples of your own it would help me "see" the direction you intend.

    It's not just "a power" it's ship functionality that is only gained by a captain of species X as opposed to Y or Z.

    That doesn't really make sense. The BOff abilities can be argued since these are your crew, actually sitting at the controls doing these thing based on training. That's a totally different thing than, "I'm human so the power runs through the conduits of my ship 8% faster!" Yes there are certain species who are slightly better at certain things than others, but you'd be hard pressed to suggest that merely being Vulcan will allow your ship, built by Starfleet, to do something for you and others of your species that anyone else simply cannot perform (and this is precisely what powers represent).

    Now, if were talking about some minor passive ability that boosts X or Y percentage by 2 or 3 percent like many of the Accolades do, that I could see.

    Adding new abilities to the game is a good idea, basing them on species is not. If beyond career you can, at whatever level (or levels) choose from a list of more generic powers to assign to your Captain (like at level 40 any Captain could choose from Picard Manoeuvre, Emergency Power, or Random Warp Jump) to reflect certain ship-based tactics your captain has learned that would make more sense and be more welcome.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    It's not just "a power" it's ship functionality that is only gained by a captain of species X as opposed to Y or Z.

    That doesn't really make sense. The BOff abilities can be argued since these are your crew, actually sitting at the controls doing these thing based on training. That's a totally different thing than, "I'm human so the power runs through the conduits of my ship 8% faster!" Yes there are certain species who are slightly better at certain things than others, but you'd be hard pressed to suggest that merely being Vulcan will allow your ship, built by Starfleet, to do something for you and others of your species that anyone else simply cannot perform (and this is precisely what powers represent).

    Now, if were talking about some minor passive ability that boosts X or Y percentage by 2 or 3 percent like many of the Accolades do, that I could see.

    Adding new abilities to the game is a good idea, basing them on species is not. If beyond career you can, at whatever level (or levels) choose from a list of more generic powers to assign to your Captain (like at level 40 any Captain could choose from Picard Manoeuvre, Emergency Power, or Random Warp Jump) to reflect certain ship-based tactics your captain has learned that would make more sense and be more welcome.

    I think that each ship getting unique powers is as close to the equivalent to this. The ship's class is (for our intentions), it's species; not the Caotain's species.

    I think a Vulcan engineered ship would probably operate differently than a nausicaan designed done (and, as far as we know, they will).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think that spaceships are run by crews - not a single race.
    But they are captained by you. You already have "captain powers' that you get as you lvl up. This would just be an additional power.

    /signed. This is a great idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PhiloPhi wrote:
    But they are captained by you. You already have "captain powers' that you get as you lvl up. This would just be an additional power.

    /signed. This is a great idea.

    I still don't like it: it's making a power inherent to a species, instead of a learned skill - something that strikes me as odd in Trek. Now having a ship designed by a species would play differently (and they do so far) but to say that there's some inherent ability in species as a Captain? This is where my conundrum lies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PhiloPhi wrote:
    But they are captained by you. You already have "captain powers' that you get as you lvl up. This would just be an additional power.

    Difference being that those powers follow your career. Essentially your understanding of your field allows you to direct your crew in certain ways based on your training and familiarity with ships/ship systems.

    Being human, Vulcan, romulan, klingon or Ferengi doesn't bequeath you with any particular knowledge of how to manage power flow, or boost engine performance in Starfleet or KDF vessels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Difference being that those powers follow your career. Essentially your understanding of your field allows you to direct your crew in certain ways based on your training and familiarity with ships/ship systems.

    Being human, Vulcan, romulan, klingon or Ferengi doesn't bequeath you with any particular knowledge of how to manage power flow, or boost engine performance in Starfleet or KDF vessels.

    And the fact most of those abilities are done by your crew. Most players have this Han Solo mentality that our avatar's can do everything. They can't: our abilities from the tools and people under our command - not the race of the captain.

    We're not Han and Chewie who upgrade our own ships and pilot them ourselves. Our crew is doing that but (to make it more fun) we're allowed to as players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Perhaps such space powers could be based on ship class specific refit equipment (similar to personal kits on ground). In order to change the refit you would have to visit a dock and to pay starfleet merrits or honor. But this is already covered by device slots in a potentially more flexible way in my opinion (currently there are just not many devices except various batteries).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I like the idea of special race specific space ability. Humans are good tacticians, and vulcans are good at science. It would make it possible to make so many different combonations.

    Like as a vulcan you could be a tac, but have a good inherant sci ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Difference being that those powers follow your career. Essentially your understanding of your field allows you to direct your crew in certain ways based on your training and familiarity with ships/ship systems.

    Being human, Vulcan, romulan, klingon or Ferengi doesn't bequeath you with any particular knowledge of how to manage power flow, or boost engine performance in Starfleet or KDF vessels.
    But your up-bringing has taught you things on your planet and other species don't learn growing up on their planet.

    For example, I can decently repair an AC because I live in the south. People who live in colder climates would have no clue. That doesn't make me "better" than them. I just have a specialized skill due to where I come from.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PhiloPhi wrote:
    But your up-bringing has taught you things on your planet and other species don't learn growing up on their planet.

    For example, I can decently repair an AC because I live in the south. People who live in colder climates would have no clue. That doesn't make me "better" than them. I just have a specialized skill due to where I come from.

    Thats a good point. i can drive at 80 mph through a blizzard no prob :D I know those who don't have the experience of snowy winters wouldn't even try something like that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    PhiloPhi wrote:
    But your up-bringing has taught you things on your planet and other species don't learn growing up on their planet.

    For example, I can decently repair an AC because I live in the south. People who live in colder climates would have no clue. That doesn't make me "better" than them. I just have a specialized skill due to where I come from.

    Problem being that your knowledge of Starfleet ships will be taught to you at Starfleet Academy, not on Andoria.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Problem being that your knowledge of Starfleet ships will be taught to you at Starfleet Academy, not on Andoria.

    different species would have different creative potentials, and abilities to understand things.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I still don't like it: it's making a power inherent to a species, instead of a learned skill - something that strikes me as odd in Trek. Now having a ship designed by a species would play differently (and they do so far) but to say that there's some inherent ability in species as a Captain? This is where my conundrum lies.

    Troy was empathic and that would definitely assist a captain in areas that a human would struggle. A Vulcan might ascertain some tactical advantage from looking at the same data that a human looks at simply on the basis of advanced logic. I think the race attributes are expressed in the passive bonuses just fine but many of the examples don't really shoot the idea down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I don't like it, we have already to many powers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    different species would have different creative potentials, and abilities to understand things.

    Which would be minor and reflected by Traits like Efficiency.

    No species is going to inherently know how to cold start a warp reactor anymore than everyone from the South will automatically know how to repair air conditioners or everyone from the North will be able to drive well in a blizzard. Some will and some won't based on training and inclination.

    Vulcans may be more inclined to logical thought, but that's reflected in their Traits. Simply being Vulcan won't make you an excellent scientist capable of deducing shield frequencies or theories involving warp plasma, since it's entirely possible you've spent your entire life studying ground combat tactics and in the pursuit of Kolinar.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I like the idea of having species specific abilities. However, since it's a MMO it won't come to much of anything.

    Just look at Vulcan Nerve Pinch in this game... might as well skip it. I don't see why it would be any different with species specific space abilities.

    Anything good will be called out as "OP" immediately and nerfed until it achieved uselessness.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    So a trait like Vulcan Analysis:

    Space trait your training in logic and analysis allows yout somewhat anticipate the flow of battle. This effectively gives you +10% to accuracy and defense for the duration of the buff. 60 seconc duration and 2 minutes cool down.

    You're on the right lines using logic, but this power you have come up with, appears to be over powered compared to other powers.

    To come up with the one example of a specific power only humans could use, I spent at least 6 hours doing research, in game and out of game. I used sources on Memory Alpha, STOwiki, Wikipedia and my own memories from the episodes and movies, thinking of what humans appeared to specialise in, that others did not, but the one thing I neglected to mention, was whether or not a power would also be available to Human bridge officers, because at the time, I couldn't decide. However now the thread has had some feedback, I believe that if this idea were to be implemented, species specific space trait powers, activated in combat, would also be applicable to bridge officers.

    One of the first scenes that came to mind, was from Generations, in which the Admiral, Captain and crew of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B were continuously faced with problem after problem, while trying to rescue the crew aboard the ships, Robert Fox and the Lakul. Many other scenes of from various episodes in which the Captain and crew face various different problems also popped into my head, while I also thought about how many different species minds function in various different ways.

    I actually thought about giving Humans a power that when activated, it would randomly select a power from all that are available in the game, but in the end, it occurred to me that the most notable trait of the Human species was Human Ingenuity. I then spent sometime trying to decide how it would work in game, considering at one point that it would be a power that would instantly repair subsystems, thought about a number of other things, but then decided on the removal of all types of debuffs. In the end I decided that any power I think of, must have a pretty long cooldown time. The power I finalised provides a bonus that Engineering, Tactical and Science Team provide, but does not provide any of the other benefits of those powers.


    I think that spaceships are run by crews - not a single race.
    PhiloPhi wrote:
    But they are captained by you. You already have "captain powers' that you get as you lvl up. This would just be an additional power.

    /signed. This is a great idea.

    Starships are run by crew members and are commanded by Captains (Captains make the decisions, give the orders and the crew follows those orders). Each of those crew members, and the Captain of the ship could be a different species or they could all be the same species, both of these scenarios are applicable to scenarios in STO. Some players have been know to have a Captain and a crew consisting entirely of one single species, most others like to mix it up.

    So in some cases, a Starship would be run by a crew of a "single race".

    My point being that different species have different abilities, it's shown in game with ground abilities (such as Rapture, Seduce or Nerve Pinch), but not with space abilities, and I believe this can be rectified, for the benefit of the players, the characters, and the factions.

    This idea would add twenty two new additional space powers (not including the Breen, but I should), one to each species, and there is also canon evidence to prove that having species diversity among the crew can provide a bonus in both a diplomatic encounter and / or a hostile encounter in space.


    Now, if were talking about some minor passive ability that boosts X or Y percentage by 2 or 3 percent like many of the Accolades do, that I could see.

    Adding new abilities to the game is a good idea, basing them on species is not. If beyond career you can, at whatever level (or levels) choose from a list of more generic powers to assign to your Captain (like at level 40 any Captain could choose from Picard Manoeuvre, Emergency Power, or Random Warp Jump) to reflect certain ship-based tactics your captain has learned that would make more sense and be more welcome.
    I still don't like it: it's making a power inherent to a species, instead of a learned skill - something that strikes me as odd in Trek.

    I would actually like to see one passive space trait (non-activated power) added to each species that does not already have a required passive space trait as well as what I have already suggested, but considering that is already in the game to a certain degree, I would like the discussion in this thread to be focused on non-passive powers that can be activated.

    Why do you think it is not a good idea, to give one unique space power trait, that can be activated during battle, to each species?


    Here is a canon example of a potential species specific space trait for the Betazoids, which could be activated during combat, the video is in Deutsch but it's the only footage I could find.

    If you don't want to read all of this post, just check this part out!

    Star Trek 10 Nemesis, Deutsch, 8/11 (video).

    Remember, Deanna Troi was only a half Betazoid, a pure bred Betazoid, whether they be the captain or a bridge officer, could potentially have the power in game to focus all of their mental abilities on targeting a cloaked ship (perhaps only if that ship has a species aboard with telepathic powers, I am unsure), allowing the player to lock on and fire. I do know that Betazoid's can not read Breen, Ferengi, Changeling's, Photonic Lifeforms or whatever species the Traveler was, but that last one doesn't really count, because his species is not available to use in STO. This ability would need to have an extended activation time and an extended cooldown time, perhaps so you only get to use the ability just once during the average PvP match, depending on the average time of a match.

    The event is described here at Memory Alpha, and suggests that it was only possible due to the residual link left between Deanna Troi and the Reman, but I believe a pure bred Betazoid would be able to accomplish this task, just not very often and the lock would not last long.

    Alternatively, their telepathic abilities could be used to confuse the enemy, preventing them from firing for a short period or perhaps their ability to be able to read the opponents mind could raise your ships defence by a small percentage for a short period of time.

    I can come up with more ideas for the other species, but I am also hoping that others also provide ideas of their own (like Commodore_Stipe has done), but the thread also requires support and the understanding of how as well as why this idea could work.

    different species would have different creative potentials, and abilities to understand things.
    Which would be minor and reflected by Traits like Efficiency.
    No species is going to inherently know how to cold start a warp reactor anymore than everyone from the South will automatically know how to repair air conditioners or everyone from the North will be able to drive well in a blizzard. Some will and some won't based on training and inclination.

    Vulcans may be more inclined to logical thought, but that's reflected in their Traits. Simply being Vulcan won't make you an excellent scientist capable of deducing shield frequencies or theories involving warp plasma, since it's entirely possible you've spent your entire life studying ground combat tactics and in the pursuit of Kolinar.

    I agree that in some species their would only be minor differences between their different creative potentials and their abilities to comprehend things differently than other species, but nearly every species specialises in a certain area of expertise or has an ability that another does not.

    The players and the developers creativity can be used to come up with ideas to turn each species speciality or ability into a power to be used in game, and HappyHappyJoyJoy, you must remember that we are talking about activated space powers that would be specifically influenced by the species speciality or their unique ability, knowing how to start up a warp reactor is not dependent on your species, unless your species is Q.

    Click here to view a list of the traits that a Vulcan can have, only four of those traits are space traits and only two of those four can be chosen, none can be activated.

    I advise you to think about how a logical mind would influence the orders given during space combat, how it would effect the crew and also note that Vulcan's can not have the Efficient trait.


    I like the idea of having species specific abilities. However, since it's a MMO it won't come to much of anything.

    Just look at Vulcan Nerve Pinch in this game... might as well skip it. I don't see why it would be any different with species specific space abilities.

    Anything good will be called out as "OP" immediately and nerfed until it achieved uselessness.

    I'm glad you like the idea, but your post seems to be quite negative, read on and any misconceptions should clear up the idea that the new powers would not be used, unless I misunderstand what you mean about the Vulcan Nerve Pinch.

    I would like to remind everyone reading this thread that the suggestion is to add one additional trait (required) to each species, not to add one additional trait to the list that can be chosen, meaning that if this idea were to be implemented, each species would be able to have five traits. If passive space traits were also added, there could be six traits in total to each species, rather than four. This would allow for a much greater range of character diversity or within the game, player and BOff traits would make them much more unique.

    Lastly, if you like this idea, we are hear to discuss potential powers / abilities, so that nerfing should not be required, also don't forget that nearly everything goes to Tribble first for a test run.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Which would be minor and reflected by Traits like Efficiency.

    No species is going to inherently know how to cold start a warp reactor anymore than everyone from the South will automatically know how to repair air conditioners or everyone from the North will be able to drive well in a blizzard. Some will and some won't based on training and inclination.

    Vulcans may be more inclined to logical thought, but that's reflected in their Traits. Simply being Vulcan won't make you an excellent scientist capable of deducing shield frequencies or theories involving warp plasma, since it's entirely possible you've spent your entire life studying ground combat tactics and in the pursuit of Kolinar.

    Not true, many ST races ARE born with inherant knowledge. For instance, the gold liguist in ST Titan (fogot her name) She was born with a lot of knowlegde obtained from her matron.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I've revised the activated Human species space trait in post #6, tweaked the bonus and added additional information, including which skills and stats modify the power.

    What do you think?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alecto wrote: »
    [...] HappyHappyJoyJoy, you must remember that we are talking about activated space powers that would be specifically influenced by the species speciality or their unique ability, knowing how to start up a warp reactor is not dependent on your species, unless your species is Q.

    That's just the problem, what you're saying there doesn't correlate.

    You aren't talking about something that is influenced by your species, you are talking about something that is or isn't based on your species. Minor passive influence is covered by traits. Abilities are something else entirely, an entire avenue of ability that exists or doesn't based on whether you have that ability or not.

    Active abilities on the ground, where it is you captain interacting directly with his environment makes sense. In space where it's a ship you're hulking around in, and your interactions with it are filtered through a crew, then active abilities don't make sense. The minor passives we see in some traits however? Sure.
    Alecto wrote: »
    Click here to view a list of the traits that a Vulcan can have, only four of those traits are space traits and only two of those four can be chosen, none can be activated.

    Precisely the point; none should be activated.
    Alecto wrote: »
    I advise you to think about how a logical mind would influence the orders given during space combat, how it would effect the crew and also note that Vulcan's can not have the Efficient trait.

    Ultimately? Not much. Regardless of how logical you are, your orders are still limited by the functionality of your ship, and the ability of your crew to execute your orders. You might have a few specific informal regulations in play based on your personal knowledge of ships systems (reflected in Traits like Warp Theorist or Techie) but ultimately being Vulcan won't allow you to order your crew to shunt shield power better... being a Engineer, with intimate knowledge, training and experience with those ship systems, might however.
    Not true, many ST races ARE born with inherant knowledge. For instance, the gold liguist in ST Titan (fogot her name) She was born with a lot of knowlegde obtained from her matron.

    You're referring to the Selenean?

    Firstly, they're about the only species that can communicate chemically that we know of. Their existence doesn't justify other species having some across the board ability. None of us, as humans, are granted any specific technological knowledge simply due to the fact that we were born to human parents.

    Secondly, inherited knowledge is still knowledge gained to individuals, and not species-wise so it still doesn't reflect an omni-present ability possessed by a species that will allow Starfleet or KDF vessels to suddenly function in a unique way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The big question: how does this differentiate from existing powers in space that are chosen on character creation?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    awesome idea.. i support it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Thank you for all of your thoughts on this topic so far, any more feedback is very much welcome, and if you have any ideas of your own for species specific powers, please feel free to post, then we can discuss your ideas.

    Cryptic, if you like this idea, please let us know and then we can work on more ideas and if you have no intention of ever implementing something like this, then we can just drop this thread. If you post here, we'll completely understand that you will not be promising to implement this idea just because you have posted in this thread. If you do, you'll either be saving us a lot of time and effort by letting us know you're not interested or you could influence some very awesome new powers to possibly add to the game at some point in the future.

    There currently seems to be some mixed feelings on the topic, although not many players have provided their thoughts or ideas, however I do believe that using canon evidence and providing examples of new species specific powers could be the key to convincing those who are not convinced that this would be a good idea.


    The big question: how does this differentiate from existing powers in space that are chosen on character creation?

    The existing space traits are not activated by the player, they are passive, they are not powers, they are not activated via the power tray and the currently existing space traits only affect a certain very limited number of aspects in the game, such as science skills, engineering skills, accuracy, defence, power management, and hull repair. There is also only one single space trait which is species specific and that is 'Leadership' which is a required Human character trait.

    There are however ground traits which can be activated, which we have previously brought up in this thread, and it was stated that in one persons opinion, it was ok to have species specific ground traits which can be activated because the players character or their bridge officers are actually using their activated traits on the ground where it is applicable. However they didn't believe that it was applicable for a character to be using a species specific space trait that could be activated in space because they believe that a single species could not have any effect upon the ships systems, which is partially true, depending on which species we are talking about, but a single species speciality or their unique ability has been shown in canon to directly influence the outcome of a diplomatic situation or a combat situation, as you can see in the video evidence I provided in post #25.

    So to sum it all up, the difference between all of the passive space traits that are not species specific (except one) and species specific space traits that can be activated (which currently do not exist in STO), would be that the former is in most cases not directly influenced by the species speciality or special ability, while also passive in nature (not activated by the player) and the later would be directly influenced by the species speciality or special ability, while also activated by the player.
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