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Tier 6 ships: Time for a Shift in Thnking

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
First let me state we have no true confimation that Cryptic will ever introduce a 6th Tier to the ship system and if they do when it will be. It has been suggested but not directly confirmed this may happend when Level 61 is opened up. Never-the-less I started thinking abou it. Tier 6 if it happens is likely to the be the final top end to the Tier system. At that level I thought what kind of Starship should it be? What could it be given some of the Tier 5's we have now and how good they are? Well I concluded we needed to get rid of the basic cruiser, escort, science vessel thinking. We even needed to get rid of the pseudo-hybrid thinking. These ships should be consdiered experimental types. Well outside of the normal thought lines. Why? Simply to make Tie 6 unique and different. Furthermore if you are going to introduce a experimental type vessel you would want your most experienced officers Commanding them. Last, simply for some fun and different to look forward to.

Having come to that conclusion I set out to find or create such a ship. In recent days I proposed Project MADAM and NikeOnline suggested the Interceptor class. Both are unique and different enough to fit my thoughts. Follow the links below to read more about them.

Project MADAM:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=186733&highlight=project+M.A.D.A.M.

NikeOnline Interceptor Class
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=186888



This thread is for others who agree with me to submit their own ideas for unique Tier 6 ships. Let your imaginations soar. While I hope Cryptic reads this and uses an idea generated in here I will be satisfied if they read it and consider the concept worht followign up on.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Typhoon Typhoon! Typhoon Typhoon! Typhoon Typhoon!

    P.s tier 6 Terran NX please
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Name stolen from Earth History (I couldn't think of a better Klingon name suggestions welcome)

    Conquistador Class:

    This massive ship was built for one purpose and one purpose only. The conquering of worlds and the quelling of rebellions. She is a massive mobile weapons platform and troop carrier. She has both space and ground combat effectiveness although as implied she is deadly when attacking a world that needs to be put in its place.

    Characteristics:

    Tier 6 ship
    Hull: 45k base
    Turn: 6
    Crew size: 10,000
    Boffs: 5 slots, 1 commander tactical, 1 commander engineering, 1 Lt sceince, 2 Lt universal
    Weapons: 4 front, and 3 rear, may only slot one torpedo
    Console slots: 8 ( 4 tactical, 3 engineering, 1 science)
    Unique abilities:

    1) Due its nature of needing to stike at planetary sufaces beam weapon targeting range increased to 15Km

    2) Orbital strike power like the engineering power but with recharge timer half of current engineer power

    3) Assault teams: Ground and space capable. In space acts as a beamable Boarding party, on ground may summon an assault team to aid you. Assault teams consists of 4 randomly selected troop types.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Make the Tier 6 ship a Universal one...You get a hull, now outfit it as you see fit...maybe add a 6th BO (universal) a extra console (universal) 1 more device slot...If you PvP, it would be hard to tell what class it was till under attack...

    We could use any ship configurations that we wish, maybe have a bigger shield generator or larger phaser relay but NOT both...Beefier engines or heavier armor but NOT both...ect ect...just better equipment that can be mixed and matched.

    It would put the imagination back into ship building..A tier 6 ship would be a Full Admiral ship and Admirals should be able to build ships from the ground up. I think it would put some personality out there without buying new skins from the c-store.

    There is a lot more I could say...but keeping it short

    just my 2 credits worth
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Two words:

    Klingon Kubes
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd rather not see a T6. Better to simply give T5 a pass and give them more functionality.

    As soon as a T6 is implemented we'll have a plethora of people screaming that the T5 ships they paid for are now worthless. Which means we have to listen to that forever, or Cryptic will respond by making T6 versions of all the T5 ships... which makes one wonder what the point of a T6 would be then, if everyone is just going to be flying new versions of their T5 ships.

    The only reason to even want a T6 is to have more options and abilities on the T5 ships... so may as well cut out the middleman and just take another look at the T5 ships already in the game and bring them up to what people are hoping for, then maybe add some more there for some more options and variety.

    Instead of building up, build out. Maybe even introduce some new ship types not already present in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    It would be kind of weird/cool if for T6 ships, you'd get all the ship parts of your faction, and you build your ship with it.

    Like have an Excelsior saucer with a Galaxy Hull with Intrepid pylons and Sovereign nacelles. :rolleyes:
    Although I also agree with the post above, maybe Cryptic should just stay with the current T5's.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd rather not see a T6. Better to simply give T5 a pass and give them more functionality.

    As soon as a T6 is implemented we'll have a plethora of people screaming that the T5 ships they paid for are now worthless. Which means we have to listen to that forever, or Cryptic will respond by making T6 versions of all the T5 ships... which makes one wonder what the point of a T6 would be then, if everyone is just going to be flying new versions of their T5 ships.

    The only reason to even want a T6 is to have more options and abilities on the T5 ships... so may as well cut out the middleman and just take another look at the T5 ships already in the game and bring them up to what people are hoping for, then maybe add some more there for some more options and variety.

    Instead of building up, build out. Maybe even introduce some new ship types not already present in the game.

    That is exactly my line of thinking. To me, the tier system is already ridiculous thanks to the retrofits. I personally believe they should remove it entirely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    How about some options like squads as I've seen in other places? Like I've seen on here from others, I think that SF and KDF are getting pretty top heavy. This could go hand-in-hand with some other the ideas floating around of how you could have separate lines for choosing to stay Captain or choosing to go Admiral. You would get the bigger and better ships if you choose Captain, Captains usually get in command of a ship, not multiple unless there are special circumstances. I wont go into specifics for hulls, weapons, and abilities on the actual T6 ships, just for the sake of my laziness and may be because I'm liking the idea of more ships over bigger and more powerful ships. I'll let others with much better ideas than I can ever come up with take care of T6 ships.

    Admirals would be "cut-off" from the true T6 ships but gain command of a squad of lower tiers. To not go unbalanced, you can't choose to have a cruiser, science, and escort in your group; you can only get command of ships from one class and tier type only. The idea I have for this is that you'll get the same amount of abilities on the admiral's flagship as you do on T5 but then you also get the other ship(s) in the group Lt. Commander to Commander, depending on how many ships in the group and tiers they come from. You wont get much in choice in abilities, they'll all get Tac., Sci, and Eng. Teams in there Ensign levels. However, you get to choose what the Lt. to L.C. abilities in presets (like BO/HYT or EP2X/Aux2X or PH/HE), you won't be able to put BOffs in these ships (so you can't have bonus abilities like Efficient in them or up the skill points), You will also be loosing the slot for the fourth BOff power.

    Another thing that will also be limited is the amount you get "control" over; the cruisers get 2 ships from T2 and T3, escorts get 3 ships from T2 to T3 and 2 ships at T4, science get 3 ships at T2 and 2 ships at T3 and T4. Weapons load-outs would be the same on all ships, dependent upon the tier they come from (not too sure about doing that for the cruisers though, don't want to nerf them too much). Killing the flagship results in the other ship warping to where the player spawns, killing the "pets" will only disable them until the player is defeated or some kind of timer brings another in (may be even healing it plus a built in repair over time that reactivates it at a set hull strength). The Klingons, I've not played as of yet, but I'll just say they could have something similar with group sizes related to the ships' abilities and weapons. My biggest concern over any fleet/squad types would be how are they different from the Klingon Carriers or the Photonic Fleet or even Fleet Support. And this kind of makes me think the carrier may go unused as a result and could make the Sci. captain in T3 and T2 escorts a real problem as that would be six ships now. Would like some help on this pipe dream of mine; if you think it just stinks, just say so.

    Obviously I'm really trying to give escorts the biggest advantage by their group sizes but that's a lot less hull and shields to get through. I know I've seen in a previous threads about squads, but not too sure if they came up with an idea just like I've put forward here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    (1) T6 won't start until level 61+ . . . that's 2 "max level bumps" away.

    (2) unless ST:O makes some radical change in its design philosophy, then T6 ships will mainly be retrofit T5s with a couple special ships available via C-store for the ch-ching.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I am not even using my T5 ship. I found saucer seperation to be silly even in the TV series and being an Engineer, I am not sure what I would need an Escort or Science Ship for. If they keep that "Retrofit" philosopy for T6, if it ever happens, I guess I might fly my trusty Star Cruiser for a long time to come...

    That being said, I'd really like a "make it the way you want it" approach for a possible T6 ship. No more "Escorts", "Science" and "Engineering" hulls, just a ship that will be what you want it to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Typhoon Typhoon! Typhoon Typhoon! Typhoon Typhoon!

    P.s tier 6 Terran NX please

    What this Undine worshipper said :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Kimyrielle wrote:
    I am not even using my T5 ship. I found saucer seperation to be silly even in the TV series and being an Engineer, I am not sure what I would need an Escort or Science Ship for. If they keep that "Retrofit" philosopy for T6, if it ever happens, I guess I might fly my trusty Star Cruiser for a long time to come...

    The Star Cruiser IS T5.

    Balanced to T1 - Miranda, Connie

    Balanced to T2 - Cuiser, Escort, Science Vessel

    Balanced to T3 - Advanced Heavy Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Heavy Escort, Advanced Research Vessel, Research Science Vessel

    Balanced to T4 - Exploration Cruiser, Tactical Escort, Long Range Science Vessel

    Balanced to T5 - Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, Assault Cruiser, Star Cruiser, Federation Dreadnought Cruiser, Advanced Escort, Fleet Escort, Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit, Deep Space Science Vessel, Reconnaissance Science Vessel, Exploration Cruiser Retrofit, Tactical Escort Retrofit, Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The way the rest of the game worked T6 should have started 51 and 61 would be T7. I think when Cryptic decided to raise the level cap to 51 they thought they could sell new ships players until the forum riot.

    What ever they decide make they will be ugly as hell so they can sell ship skins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think a whole redesign of the way ships are organized is warranted. It's a long haul down the road kind of thing, but they've stuck themselves at T5 if they don't want severe rage here, and elsewhere. i say get the pain overwith and come up with anew organization of ships. Down the road.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd personally prefer to see T6 as fleet stations and leviathan battleships - ships so large that they support fleets of players.

    I'd love to see these two concepts integrated into some hybrid exploration / territory control (or diplomatic influence) system. We'd actually be waging a war: one of words and another of swords. Everyone can contribute to the war efforts and fleets might be assigned to protect their factions' interests in designated nebulas.

    This would require a significant overhaul to exploration (as well as adding dozens of new features). However, I am of the belief that we need to kill all these birds with s single stone that integrates all of them together instead of making STO some hodgepodge of disjointed play mechanics.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd personally prefer to see T6 as fleet stations and leviathan battleships - ships so large that they support fleets of players.

    That sounds more BSGish than Treky.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Darren, you mean monster ships that need more than one player on them, or single player monster ships?

    I can unsderstand SB's being ranked above T5.

    A large multiplayer ship could still be T5, just be equal in power to 1.8 of them, seeing as how 2 players would be controlling it.... somehow. Maybe a mobile drydock similar to Stipes idea?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    That sounds more BSGish than Treky.
    Darren, you mean monster ships that need more than one player on them, or single player monster ships?

    I can unsderstand SB's being ranked above T5.

    A large multiplayer ship could still be T5, just be equal in power to 1.8 of them, seeing as how 2 players would be controlling it.... somehow. Maybe a mobile drydock similar to Stipes idea?

    I'd finish reading the post to understand why Starbase and Huge Ships would be needed. :)

    Gameplay needs an evolution at the Fleet Admiral Ranks - not just bigger ships with bigger numbers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd personally prefer to see T6 as fleet stations and leviathan battleships - ships so large that they support fleets of players.

    I'd love to see these two concepts integrated into some hybrid exploration / territory control (or diplomatic influence) system. We'd actually be waging a war: one of words and another of swords. Everyone can contribute to the war efforts and fleets might be assigned to protect their factions' interests in designated nebulas.

    This would require a significant overhaul to exploration (as well as adding dozens of new features). However, I am of the belief that we need to kill all these birds with s single stone that integrates all of them together instead of making STO some hodgepodge of disjointed play mechanics.

    I would like to see that also but my take on it would be. You are a Captain to fly T5 ships and you have to earn the rank Admiral through completion of STF's and diplomacy. Then you get to fly a Leviathan and you can buy T5 ships with energy credits and command four starships like you command four bridge officers on the ground.

    You would choose their crews and set them like you would now and command them in battle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    There's a rather unspoken question that needs asking:
    Do we really want T6 to represent more of the same gameplay?

    Even altering how we build them really doesn't inspire much confidence.We need new gameplay - one that utilizes that the lower tiers while simultaneously changing up our responsibilities dramatically.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    There's a rather unspoken question that needs asking:
    Do we really want T6 to represent more of the same gameplay?

    Even altering how we build them really doesn't inspire much confidence.We need new gameplay - one that utilizes that the lower tiers while simultaneously changing up our responsibilities dramatically.

    I agree. I think I'll always use my assault cruiser though. I have no desire for a bigger, badder ship. Now, new mechanics would be great alongside a competitive diplo/war scenario, like you said.

    But i don't see the need for anything different w/o the new diplo/war mechanics you speak about. T6 really can be the end all be all in the current set up of the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree. I think I'll always use my assault cruiser though. I have no desire for a bigger, badder ship. Now, new mechanics would be great alongside a competitive diplo/war scenario, like you said.

    But i don't see the need for anything different w/o the new diplo/war mechanics you speak about. T6 really can be the end all be all in the current set up of the game.
    • What if you could develop colonies and aid local populaces in Star Cluster - winning their favor for the Federation?

    • What if Klingons could build starbases in areas of exploration space and fight to control them?

    • What if PvE were safe, so long as you were away from the KDF border?

    • What if PvP existed on that border strip - an open one that involved building facilities over time and keeping out intruders?

    • What if Starbases represented how you build up a system (with UGC elements tied to resource costs and ahving their own functionality)? What if T6 ships represented how you moved enough resources into an area to "set-up" shop?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    • What if you could develop colonies and aid local populaces in Star Cluster - winning their favor for the Federation?

    • What if Klingons could build starbases in areas of exploration space and fight to control them?

    • What if PvE were safe, so long as you were away from the KDF border?

    • What if PvP existed on that border strip - an open one that involved building facilities over time and keeping out intruders?

    • What if Starbases represented how you build up a system (with UGC elements tied to resource costs and ahving their own functionality)? What if T6 ships represented how you moved enough resources into an area to "set-up" shop?

    I would never leave this game if they put all that in, lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I would never leave this game if they put all that in, lol.

    The way I see it:
    • T6 Starbases are run by fleets and develop a system (or system clusters)

    • T6 Ships represent a colonization, defense, or invasion force (depending on your faction's preference)

    A T6 ship might have a portable transwarp hub - though slow to move, you need that ship to get everyone to defend a system quickly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    As much as I would love to see something like that they will never put that much depth into this game. All the potential this game has I'm afraid now it will never be more than mediocre.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Englebert wrote:
    As much as I would love to see something like that they will never put that much depth into this game. All the potential this game has I'm afraid now it will never be more than mediocre.
    I've got an idea on how to use the Foundry in conjunction with the ideas above. I just can't post anything specific about using it until the NDA breaks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Damnit Darren, your in the know on everything :p

    interesting if UGC could be used to create this, but i doubt it. It's not beyond some of the awesome devs we have though. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Damnit Darren, your in the know on everything :p

    interesting if UGC could be used to create this, but i doubt it. It's not beyond some of the awesome devs we have though. :D
    Strictly speaking, the Foundry isn't intended for this (at least not right now) However, using some of the features (especially should PvP support arrive) would prove useful but in a very specific manner that relates to colonization and territory control. You just have to build a context for it: one that acknowledges some want PvE, some PvP, and beyond.

    Roughly speaking, if you saw these two threads (here and here), I'd love to see something utilizing elements of both while also pushing the envelope with what we come to expect from MMOs at endgame.

    I just need to sit down and quantify what it all means in clear, concise wording - then wait for the NDA to lift.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    P.s tier 6 Terran NX please

    ...He said with malice aforethought...

    ;)
    I'd rather not see a T6. Better to simply give T5 a pass and give them more functionality.

    As soon as a T6 is implemented we'll have a plethora of people screaming that the T5 ships they paid for are now worthless. Which means we have to listen to that forever, or Cryptic will respond by making T6 versions of all the T5 ships... which makes one wonder what the point of a T6 would be then, if everyone is just going to be flying new versions of their T5 ships.

    The only reason to even want a T6 is to have more options and abilities on the T5 ships... so may as well cut out the middleman and just take another look at the T5 ships already in the game and bring them up to what people are hoping for, then maybe add some more there for some more options and variety.

    Instead of building up, build out. Maybe even introduce some new ship types not already present in the game.

    I love these forums. Mainly for all the juicy Nerd rage that goes on here. Its very entertaining during the night shifts. As I just sit on the other side of some glass and watch teddy's hurled about with TRIBBLE abandon.

    However sometimes a gem shows up like this one. This is joined up thinking at its best, and I really think that Cryptic could do allot worse than listen to that post.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The main problem is they aren't going to improve the sub par space flight. The space flight is far to restrictive and not only do you need to roll and pitch 360 degrees but you need to be able to move vertical while keeping your nose level and while your engines are engaged and you hold the vertical climb button. You would move forward and up at the same time.

    This will never happen so space combat will always be sub par. This could be be added to both STO and Champions.

    I know it would take mountains code and tons of work. This would add tremendous depth and so much more fun to space flight and combat.
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