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The Great CoverShields in ESD discussion.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Ok. When I first started this game I started out with a tac. HATED IT. deleted it and made my main and Engineer. Covershields are awesome. For us engineers they are the only sociable thing to get us at high places which one could normally not get to. The fact you're getting rid of CS in area's like ESD and Drozana ****es a lot of us off. Sure there may be a few bad seeds out there who block doors and stuff but please. Don't get rid of it. You're just getting rid of content in a game when really a lot of people had said this game needs more.

As an engineer I beg you to keep them in sociable area's. what happens on Tribble rarely ever happens on Holodeck.

As a paying costumer i'm telling you its not a good idea to get rid of them.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    i dont get it, your angry because you now cant reach places you were never meant to reach in the first place?

    reaching some high up place is not content.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yes it is. They want this game to be sociable and fun at the same time they should keep it how it is with said item. People ***** about the Breen Biothermal Dampener more then the CS anyways. Do you see that getting taken away?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yes it is. They want this game to be sociable and fun at the same time they should keep it how it is with said item. People ***** about the Breen Biothermal Dampener more then the CS anyways. Do you see that getting taken away?

    Actually it's blocked (for the most part) at the dabo table at drozana. There is just a few gaps where it can be used ^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yeah sure its blocked at Dabo tables. But is there a Dabo table at ESD,K7 or SB39? No.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yeah sure its blocked at Dabo tables. But is there a Dabo table at ESD,K7 or SB39? No.

    And does it cause insane lag as bad as drozana at ESD, K7 or SB39? No.

    The only time i've had it go to extreme lag issues is around the dabo tables and inside Drozana. Otherwise ESD is pretty well quiet with them, same with K7 and no one goes to SB39 cept on missions ^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The few always kill it for the many.

    Covershields allowed in social areas = blocked doors.

    Has to go... for good.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Instead of limiting the use of Cover Shield what they should do is... rip it and Orbital Strike out of the game entirely and give the Engineer a couple of abilities that are actually somewhat comparable to what Science and Tactical have instead of those two lemons... :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Instead of limiting the use of Cover Shield what they should do is... rip it and Orbital Strike out of the game entirely and give the Engineer a couple of abilities that are actually somewhat comparable to what Science and Tactical have instead of those two lemons... :(

    Name one tac skill, that is even remotely as useful as the cover shield...

    I do agree on the orbital strike though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    anazonda wrote: »
    Name one tac skill, that is even remotely as useful as the cover shield...

    Considering that natural cover is basically never further away than the activation time on cover shield I might as well say all of them.

    Target Optics is a multi-Expose that buffs damage and crits and has a near constant up time.

    Fire on My Mark is a resistance debuff that's uptime equals it's downtime.

    Tactical Initiative instantly recharges all of your attacks and abilities.

    Security Escort gives you two combat pets.

    Any of the above is better than Cover Shield.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I won't mind one way or the other, i was never annoyed by them in social areas.

    Tell you what though, and this fix won't change this one bit, your own boffs can grief you like mad with them! On quite a few occasions before i deleted it from every single boff that had it they'd turn them on right behind me at a doorway leaving me alone and outgunned awaiting an inevitable death while they sat behind what was essentially a closed door and lolled. (the engineer who was mainly responsible still gets sent out ahead of the group as a redshi....errr 'scout' to this day, never mess with the Captain!)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Considering that natural cover is basically never further away than the activation time on cover shield I might as well say all of them.

    Target Optics is a multi-Expose that buffs damage and crits and has a near constant up time.

    Fire on My Mark is a resistance debuff that's uptime equals it's downtime.

    Tactical Initiative instantly recharges all of your attacks and abilities.

    Security Escort gives you two combat pets.

    Any of the above is better than Cover Shield.

    I find Cover Shield useful for covering my flank with my ENG characters, especially in open areas. I don't train my BOffs on my TAC and SCi characters because, well... BOffs are idiots. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Considering that natural cover is basically never further away than the activation time on cover shield I might as well say all of them.

    Target Optics is a multi-Expose that buffs damage and crits and has a near constant up time.

    Fire on My Mark is a resistance debuff that's uptime equals it's downtime.

    Tactical Initiative instantly recharges all of your attacks and abilities.

    Security Escort gives you two combat pets.

    Any of the above is better than Cover Shield.

    I have to agree the Tac ground abilities if used right rock. Now space wise not so much but that is a discussion for another thread.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yes another thread indeed. The only actual witness I have of people blocking other people out of a door or something was before the first episode of the dividian series at Drozana Instance 3 I believe. Many many many people in one room playing dabo. Klingon Engineers blocking everyone out unless you mastered jumping.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    did i miss a dev post somewhere along the line where this was announced?

    talk about killjoys, mucking around with kit skills whilst in social areas gives us something to do, way more fun than those emotes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    MDK-187 wrote:
    did i miss a dev post somewhere along the line where this was announced?

    Yeah it was posted in the recent Tribble post. And whatever comes to Tribble will eventually come to Holodeck.

    Unless something can be said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    It's in the test server patch notes.

    My main is an engineer and I don't mind the change at all. The only times that I see Cover Shield in social areas is when someone is using it to block doors. Using it to get to areas you aren't supposed to get to really isn't a justifiable reason to keep active in social areas and is may actually be another reason this is being done. Getting to areas like that can cause other support problems such as stuck characters which, in an admittedly unlikely Murphy's Law sequence of events, could conceivably lead to character data getting corrupted.

    If climbing Cover Shields was an intended "social interaction", then all characters would have access to them. They do not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    There is absolutely no way to make cover shields character permeable?
    :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Okay, dude... really? Your not fooling anyone, seriously. No one fights for the ability to jump to higher boxes... and honestly, if THAT is what your doing with your 15 bucks every month, then you should probably invest in a different game. Mario Bros perhaps? No one fights for the ability to jump to higher boxes... so your quite obviously a greifer, and someone who gets bored being a civil STO citizen. So you spend hours in these social places, climbing up boxes and leaping up to hights normally unreachable... so you can dance in your underwear and lob dampeners at people who clearly want nothing to do with you.

    Your as see-through as a glass house buddy...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Rofl. My dampener's been in my bank since the day I got it. Your response makes me to believe you're another PVP power leveling Vice Admiral with all the Tier 5 ships braggin bout your Purple's like a 16 year old showin his new lambo his daddy bought him.

    The forums were made for the fans. We can ***** and complain all we want and sometimes we get it. The forums were made for us. Nothing you naysayers can do or say about it. So I enjoy your honesty in trying to make me look like something else but your attempt will go as just another leaf in the wind.

    Have a nice day.

    =]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The fact you're getting rid of CS in area's like ESD and Drozana ****es a lot of us off.

    Good. The fact that engineers like to block doors in social areas is finally moot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    While this is certainly a good first start, I don't think it goes far enough.

    There's no reason for ANY of the powers or abilities to be used in social areas. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for people to be firing off Fire Extinguishers or Smoke Grenades or setting Phaser Turrets or Shield Generators while we're trying to access the Exchange or while we're standing around chatting in Club 47.

    If my character was really an Admiral he'd have them arrested and court-martialed for endangering civilians and Starfleet personnel by deploying munitions in a non-combat environment.

    But mostly it's just annoying. Which is exactly what the immature griefing jackasses who are against this want to be free to continue to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    ...You're just getting rid of content in a game when really a lot of people had said this game needs more.
    Firstly, getting rid of CS in populated social zones would be getting rid of content if and only if, there were actual content-pieces, i.e exploration badges or mission-doors, vendors, items etc, in those high-places.

    Secondly, removing CS (and probably all other antagonizing skills) is a good step in the right direction since the last thing any social game wants is to cultivate and support unsanctioned antagonistic behavior patterns.

    Thirdly, don't ask Cryptic not to remove CS, instead, ask them to add this! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    While this is certainly a good first start, I don't think it goes far enough.

    There's no reason for ANY of the powers or abilities to be used in social areas. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for people to be firing off Fire Extinguishers or Smoke Grenades or setting Phaser Turrets or Shield Generators while we're trying to access the Exchange or while we're standing around chatting in Club 47.

    If my character was really an Admiral he'd have them arrested and court-martialed for endangering civilians and Starfleet personnel by deploying munitions in a non-combat environment.

    But mostly it's just annoying. Which is exactly what the immature griefing jackasses who are against this want to be free to continue to do.

    If my characters were also commissioned officers, they wouldn't set off any of those items in social areas either.

    Folks that use abilities in social areas aren't attempting to grief all the time (and honestly, when I am at the Exchange, I don't notice), but are sometimes participating in a dance party or some other social event and want to make the scene a bit more lively other than a few characters dancing around.

    If we had appropriate party equipment for social functions, I doubt you would see people setting shield generators or lighting off smoke grenades.

    Edit:

    Brings about a request for the Devs if they are reading this thread: Would it be possible since the dance parties in particular are becoming quite popular, to equip certain social areas, or have characters equip items more geared for social functions and not combat abilities?

    I agree, btw, that using combat abilities shouldn't be done in social areas, because in the actual Star Trek universe most of these characters would not do these sorts of things, but I can understand the reasonings behind why it is done by some users, and it's not with the purpose to grief but to have fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    your attempt will go as just another leaf in the wind.

    I've been an Engineer since Closed Beta. I swear by the bunker kit. I tried to chase down the health numbers on the shield, what affect skill had by investing in them.

    I think I hit nearly every angle of this kit in the first six months. If there was a question, I asked it.

    I don't mind this change at all. Anyone who's ever had a Bridge Officer with covershield (say in an STF) you know the implications of it popping up in unintended places. Anyone who's run an STF with mutliple engis, knows just how well a door can be sealed up with 2 or more. My point, is it could be used to grief. That'd be the only reason I see them removing it. I've never played an mmo that gave you a device to specifically gain entry to areas of the game that were not meant to be accessed.

    While some may consider climbing a wall and getting where no one else can go and/or see, as a social mechanic, I don't see it. This takes nothing away from the intended use of this ability.

    So lets hope as I quoted, this post slips away.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    But....but....griefing people IS content....right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    If you ask me, ALL combat skills should be locked when you are in social areas. There is no need for these abilities when aboard a friendly or neutral station, so the only reason people would want access to their combat abilities is for griefing.

    By locking out all combat abilities aboard ESD, Memory Alpha, DS9, K-7 and Drozana (As well as Qo'nos and Ganalda) you completely eliminate the issues with Cover Shields, Bio-thermal Dampeners, etc.

    Problem completely solved.

    Oh, and to the OP: Using combat abilities in Social areas is not content, nor is it socialable. It is annoying to most and griefing to others.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    neotekgeek wrote: »
    This takes nothing away from the intended use of this ability.
    I think you Sir, should be the official spokesman for Cryptic. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'll say this; one of the biggest things for me in an MMORPG has always been exploration and free roaming. Most games are killing free roaming these days; which sort of makes me sad. However, if you're clever enough you can still explore places. This is where being an engineer comes in. Even if I couldn't free roam then at least I could explore what was in my isolated environments to a greater extent. It helped to make it feel less closed in. I know it's easier to disable an ability than to allow people to pass through it or any number of other possibilities; but I think this shows conflict in design and statement more than anything.

    Look at Starbase 01. Look at how small the interior hallways are (as they probably should be). Now, look at the interiors of ships. Look at how unnecessarily gigantic they are! The supposed reason for this was that we would be fighting inside ships, then the reason was that it was all the cameras fault. Yet, I don't recall a single time we've fought inside our personal ships yet; but I DO remember when we fought inside Starbase 01. Whether being in Starbase 01 normally, or when the Borg invaded, I have never had any camera issue at all. Not one. At all.

    So this makes me skeptical of a lot of things. But the point here is that if they want to force giant hallways on us inside our ships, why can't they just increase door and hall size in Starbase 01? Alternatively, why can't they decrease ship interiors to be MUCH closer to what they're supposed to be given my above statements? There would be no issues that I can forsee.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    If you ask me, ALL combat skills should be locked when you are in social areas. There is no need for these abilities when aboard a friendly or neutral station, so the only reason people would want access to their combat abilities is for griefing.

    By locking out all combat abilities aboard ESD, Memory Alpha, DS9, K-7 and Drozana (As well as Qo'nos and Ganalda) you completely eliminate the issues with Cover Shields, Bio-thermal Dampeners, etc.

    Problem completely solved.

    Oh, and to the OP: Using combat abilities in Social areas is not content, nor is it socialable. It is annoying to most and griefing to others.
    While this is certainly a good first start, I don't think it goes far enough.

    There's no reason for ANY of the powers or abilities to be used in social areas. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for people to be firing off Fire Extinguishers or Smoke Grenades or setting Phaser Turrets or Shield Generators while we're trying to access the Exchange or while we're standing around chatting in Club 47.

    If my character was really an Admiral he'd have them arrested and court-martialed for endangering civilians and Starfleet personnel by deploying munitions in a non-combat environment.

    But mostly it's just annoying. Which is exactly what the immature griefing jackasses who are against this want to be free to continue to do.

    So you stop the use of any skill and leaves us that use them for events and parties with what... nothing? I understand that people see from the RP standpoint it makes zero sense. From a community event driven standpoint - Either we need more tools before this happens or you'll be forcing us into our own ships to use these and that'll cut out half of being "social".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Askray wrote: »
    So you stop the use of any skill and leaves us that use them for events and parties with what... nothing? I understand that people see from the RP standpoint it makes zero sense. From a community event driven standpoint - Either we need more tools before this happens or you'll be forcing us into our own ships to use these and that'll cut out half of being "social".
    Do you really find it impossible to be social without lobbing Cryo Grenades at passerby every few minutes? How well does that work out for you IRL?

    It's annoying period. If you and yours really feel the need to freeze or smoke people in a social setting then yeah, the confines of your ship interior is the best place for you. Me? I'm tired of the constant noises and screen shake while I'm searching for stuff on the Exchange.

    I'm against the addition of 'party favor' emotes for the same reason. If the devs give people any kind of noisemaker that they can spam in social zones then they will just use that to annoy and grief people now that they've lost their precious cover shield.
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