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Separate Dominion and Cardassian

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I think we need to separate the Dominion and the Cardassians; the True Way thing doesn't make too much sense and both races are good enough and have strong enough back stories to stand on their own. I like the idea of having Alpha Jem'Hadar separate from the Dominion, perhaps even having some arc with a free Jem'Hadar faction. The Dominion as a whole can be explored later when they get around to unlocking the Gamma Quadrant, but in the meantime I think this issue deserves note.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    i agree.

    i NEVER liekd the "true way"

    first of all... the Cardassians are a proud people who hold grudges.

    after the dominion shelled cardassia at the end of the dominion war, and killed millions in war attrocities through out the dominion awar...
    i find it VERY hard to believe any cardassians would side with the Dominion ever again.

    in fact: i think that the "free" jem hadar and cardassian forces would be at eachothers thaots, and be even worse antagonists toward eachother then either would be against the federation.

    the jem hadar have shown time and again that the, like the klingons, respect a worthy foe.
    this leads me to believe the Jem Hadar would blame the cardassians for the loss of the war, and hold the fed's and klingons in somewhat high esteem.

    the cardassians are also weaker then the other 3 powers/empires native to the alpha/beta, but they are not stupid and they are FAR from "pushovers"

    in fact many times they are considered more sly and clever then even the romulans! (when it comes to covert operations and spying)

    this also leads me to believe the Cardies would continue to show a "good" face to their fed/klingon/romulan rivals...
    but support spec forces and covert operations... and would NEVER tolerate a jem hadar faction covertly operating in their space.

    i have never seen the "true way" as something that made sense.
    and even with Garak at the helm (or I would say especially with garak at the helm) the cardassians would want to regain their glory and become on par with their alpha/beta rivals.

    and i seriously doubt someone as wise, whiley, and ruthless as garak would tolerate terrorist Jem Hadar running amock in Cardie territory!

    nor could i see Jem Hadar taking orders from a bunch of misguided and under funded renegade cardie guls.

    no sir... i don't see it happeneing!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I see the reble alphas more likely to join up with the Klingons, which is why I asked for the Jem'hadar as a C-Store race for the Klingons. It's easy, and makes sense as both are warrior/soldier cultures.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    NeilCell wrote: »
    I see the reble alphas more likely to join up with the Klingons, which is why I asked for the Jem'hadar as a C-Store race for the Klingons. It's easy, and makes sense as both are warrior/soldier cultures.


    a couple of episodes from DS9 support this idea.

    such as when martok and worf were captured and forced to fight hand to hand with jem hadar in an arena setting.

    also in other episodes, jem hadar have been known to rebel aganst their Vorta masters due to their respect for human and klingon honor and fighting prowess
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I concur with the OP on all points.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I agree as well. I can't see any Cardassian having anything to do with the jem hadar, rebels or not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I like the True Way thing. What I'd like to see is Cardassia join the Federation and the True Way become it's own faction with renegade Cardassians, Jem'hadar, and Breen; with some support from the Romulans to help keep the area destablize for the Federation. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    cardassia joining the federation? NEGATIVE!

    the cardassians area proud and intelligent people.

    but they are well known for independence (of their own peoeple) at all costs.
    they also have an infamous sense of revenege that is unrivale... even by klingons!

    if you watched DS9 you would know this.

    in addition to this, elim garak is at the Datapa council's head.
    and although he is feindly with the feds, he is cardassian TO THE CORE.
    remember he is the son of the head of the obsidian order. he is a sly spy, an excellent assassin, and a politicol antagonist!
    he would never promote being absorbed by the feds Or any other culture.

    cardassians have been known to hold a grudge for generations over the slightest offense.
    and some of their clandestine assassinations and vendetas are legendary.

    even though the feds are now reluctant freinds to the cardies, this is only a marriage of convenience.
    the cardassians need aid, and the feds need to NOT get dragged into a 3rd front! (4th front? 5th front? 6th front? LOL )

    remember, the cardassians have lost 2 mojor conflicts to the federation: the 60's border war conflict, the Dominion war, and also the Maquis situation.

    and after the attrocities done on the cardassian people by the dominion, at the hands of the jem hadar, which killed BILLIONS...
    i dont see the cardassians siding with either the federation, and ESPECIALLY not the Jem Hadar!!!

    even during the dominion war, thae cardassians were planning to overthrow their dominion allies/masters!
    Dukat and Dumar were always planning to betray the dominion as soon as cardassia was back on it's feet.

    however, the breen are a group of galactic mercenaries, and have had a long history of working for the cardassians and other factions where it suits them.

    i also see Romulan Empire's Sela supporting the cardassians to divide the federations attention into as many directions as possible.

    i can even see Garak working with Sela in a limited, if not weary, relationship where both cardassia and the romulans USE eachother to try and gain some advantage for their people.

    ACTUALLY...

    having a story line that involves the spy activities of both legendary cover races would be cool.
    there would be betreyal at every turn! no one would truly know who is on whos side!

    are the cardies really working with the romies?
    are Sela and Garak involved with eachother, or trying to kill eachother, OR BOTH?!?!
    are the romulans softening up the cardies for the klingon Duras?
    are the cardassians going to try to use the breen to attak the romulans.
    are BOTH trying to betray the feds?
    or perhaps both will turn on the klingons... who are enemies of both?
    it is also well known that the klingons own half a dozen worlds from the romulans and the cardassians.
    ...that CANT be well liked by either side.
    i think there is a LOt of potential there for plot!!!

    but the Jem hadar?
    they should be their own terrorist organization!
    i just cant see the cardassians working with the aliens that tried to take control of cardassia, and then bombarded BILLIONS of cardies at the end of the dominioin war.

    i dont want to mention specifics... but imagine a people in human history that was almost killed off by an evil military empire.
    are those people then going to ally with their former genocidal masters?
    NEVER. it make NO sense.
    not even cardie renegades or criminals would do that...

    the cardassians should return to an independent and whiley and sneaky empire, which is on the ropes, but trying their best to gain power.

    the jem hadar should remain the remnents of a mighty empire... stuck behind enemy lines, and clinging on to their warrior code!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    after the dominion shelled cardassia at the end of the dominion war, and killed millions in war attrocities through out the dominion awar...
    i find it VERY hard to believe any cardassians would side with the Dominion ever again.

    I agree, it is much more likely that they will rebuild in a way similar to how Germany reconstructed/modernized after WW1
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    D-Rek wrote: »
    cardassia joining the federation? NEGATIVE!

    the cardassians area proud and intelligent people.

    but they are well known for independence (of their own peoeple) at all costs.
    they also have an infamous sense of revenege that is unrivale... even by klingons!

    if you watched DS9 you would know this.
    I've seen every episode of DS9 multiple times. I've also read the STO timeline, and the STO novel. Cardis are in consideration to be Fed members.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    D-Rek wrote: »
    i dont want to mention specifics... but imagine a people in human history that was almost killed off by an evil military empire.
    are those people then going to ally with their former genocidal masters?
    NEVER. it make NO sense.
    not even cardie renegades or criminals would do that...

    the cardassians should return to an independent and whiley and sneaky empire, which is on the ropes, but trying their best to gain power.

    the jem hadar should remain the remnents of a mighty empire... stuck behind enemy lines, and clinging on to their warrior code!

    I will point to historic rivalies: Japanese occupation of Korea from 1910-1945. Even after 65 years, the Koreans still don't particularly like the Japanese. They are still arguing over the name of the Sea between them(The Koreans call it the East Sea of Korea or Sea of Korea, the Japanese call it the West Sea of Japan). There is still arguement over the ownership of mere unihabitable boulders between the two counties.

    The Mongolians conqured Tang China and ruled them for almost 200 years. Even after the Ming Emporers kicked the Khans out, the Mongolians have defeated them on the battlefield so many times, that the Chinese have developed an almost primordial fear of their nomadic neighbors. To this day there is a certain amount of distrust between them.

    The Persians under Xerxies had dominated the Middle East in the past, and were not particularly kind to the bedoin tribes in Arabia. There is a level of distrust between the two groups. The Middle East is not the monolith that some people in the world would like to think.

    I do agree that the Alpha Jem'Hadar, being more independent than their "Gamma Brothers" are more likely to forge their own destinies, and build an Empire of their own. I also think some might aspire to serve a higher calling, and ally themselves with the Klingons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    the obsidian order is more devious and dangerous even then section 31, most feds wont even acknowledge the war crimes and atrocities of section 31, but the cardassians are proud of their obsidian order.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    i actually have to agree.. they need separated.. in certain instances (no pun intended) it just looks silly... cardassians are missing the hideki class.. use them. im sure the guys at cryptic are creative enough to create some new designs for both dominion and cardassians if need be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    as a side note:

    yes we all want to see the hideki class destroyer!
    they were only the most numerous cardassian ship!!!

    back to the main thread:

    even if the cardies and feds are on good terms, and even if they are being considered formembership in the federation...
    IT WONT HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON!

    alledgedly the klingons join the feds too eventually too (alledgedly)

    meanwhile the cardassians are trying to get on their feet, are shrewd and meticulous (as always), and are being led by a cunning and notoriously knowlegable and informed ex-assassin/spy.

    if you can't make any plot magic with that without trying to re-recap a smaller dominion war...
    then your just not a good developer!

    there is too much potential here... and the Jem Hadar shouldnt be a part of it.
    not the way they are now anyway.
    the Alpha Jem Hadar should be their own story arc for both the federation ANd the future cardassian faction. (as well as the present AI cardassian empire)

    maybe a cardassian faction would have Jem Hadar assimilated intot heir ranks... the same way feds have klingon starfleet officers.
    but i just can't see cardassians of any significance working with their former oppressors.

    and the Jem Hadar always looked down on the cardassians.

    the fed-cardie relationship aside...
    the OP originally posted about seperating the cardies and Jem Hadar... and i think the OP is correct.
    and i think most players feel the same way.

    now the REAL question is...

    are the devs REALLY going to re-write 1/4 of the game because they dropped the ball about this cardie thing?
    are they really going to go into the way back machine and ax a lot of playable content (which is at a high premium right now) because a handful of fanboys called them out on bad writing?
    hmmmm....

    *shakes magic eight ball*

    P.S. khans wrath signature is the LOLz x10 !!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I figure you could have playable Cardassian and Jem'Hadar on the Fed side without any official association with the original factions and with little need for back story. The Alpha Jem'Hadar teaming up with the Breen makes far more sense than with the Cardassians. All great points D-Rek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    NeilCell wrote: »
    I do agree that the Alpha Jem'Hadar, being more independent than their "Gamma Brothers" are more likely to forge their own destinies, and build an Empire of their own. I also think some might aspire to serve a higher calling, and ally themselves with the Klingons.

    I don't think the klingons are very fond of the Jem' Hadar.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    shizaru wrote:
    I don't think the klingons are very fond of the Jem' Hadar.

    Martok and Worf had respect for Ika'Ikat after fighting him at Dominion Internament Camp 371.

    In "Sons and Daughters" Worf warned his son Alexander "This is war, The Jem'Hadar WILL cut you to pieces!" He would not say that unless he really believed it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    NeilCell wrote: »
    Martok and Worf had respect for Ika'Ikat after fighting him at Dominion Internament Camp 371.

    In "Sons and Daughters" Worf warned his son Alexander "This is war, The Jem'Hadar WILL cut you to pieces!" He would not say that unless he really believed it.

    Doesn't make the empire fond of the Jems. They might respect them as warriors, but I don't think the klingons would have any love for them. As one of the klingons said (paraphrased) "They don't fight for honor, they fight because that is what they were designed to do".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree with the OP and with several, if not all, of the posts in here.

    I am not gifted for writing, be it my name or a story line, so perhaps someone will come up with a sutible story based on this whole situation. Let's say when the Cardie faction does come to be, the main plot will revolve around getting rid of the True Way faction.

    Perhaps make some of the other factions a 'reward' for progressing with the main story. Right now, I'm at the Commander levels and involved with the Rommies, so using that example after I finish that story arc I get rewarded with the playable faction, and after Captain or when ever the Cardie arc is you gain the Cardies. Granted not the most original idea, but it would help Cryptic not have to axe that playable content in the future, just add to it.

    As for the Jem'Hadar joining the Klingons.. I doubt it. If you look at one of the Cryptic wallpapers they made up, there is a ground battle of Fed vs Kling and there is a Jem on the feddie side: Bottom left, 5th person up

    Do I agree with a Jem on the Feddie side... more then likely not, but it would be an interesting story to be sure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Have to agree with the Cosmic One.

    Don't forget that these Jem'hadar are not the Dominion. They are leftovers trying to find a path for their own, and the True Way Cardassians attempt to capitalize on this by combining their forces in order to (re)establish a way of life in the Cardassian sector that both factions are used to. In a way, this is similar to Sela's alliance of convenience with the Hirogen.

    On the other side we have the Cardassia that has received Federation aid for decades after the liberation. A liberation not only from the Dominion, but from their own militocratic regime as well, which has brought this fate upon Cardassia by themselves. As DS9 has shown us, the civilian population was not very happy with the Central Command, so I do not see how some players can be convinced that the Cardassians would return to a rule that was directly responsible for the devastation of their planet in the first place. I can only assume that this is due to the shows' focus on Cardassian military personnel, similar to how the majority of people think that all Klingons are warriors talking about honor all day long.

    Twice over the past decades the Cardassian people have made bad experiences with a draconic military terror regime that used to torture and kill its people out of fear, so the current path of the government, including its ongoing treaty with the Federation that provided so much help, is quite reasonable. Just as reasonable as the fact that there will also be those living in the past. Yes, those proud Cardassian soldiers and impressionable youths that were mentioned in this very thread - and this is perfect material for the True Way and its intention to return Cardassia under the iron rule of the military.

    Should the Cardassians ever become a playable faction, I expect them to be the True Way, possibly with a reoccupied ("liberated") Cardassia. After all, these are the guys you want to play - even if you haven't realized it yet. The Cardassians currently on Cardassia are not.
    shizaru wrote:
    Doesn't make the empire fond of the Jems. They might respect them as warriors, but I don't think the klingons would have any love for them. As one of the klingons said (paraphrased) "They don't fight for honor, they fight because that is what they were designed to do".
    Very true. The Rotarran-episode is quite clear about this.
    D-Rek wrote: »
    i dont want to mention specifics... but imagine a people in human history that was almost killed off by an evil military empire.are those people then going to ally with their former genocidal masters? NEVER. it make NO sense.
    The True Way isn't "a people", it's a bunch of fanatics, and those will often do anything that serves their goals. And neither are the Jem'hadar in any way more responsible for the orbital bombardement of Cardassia than the High Command itself. It was the latter that handed Cardassia over to these "genocidal masters" with a gift wrap. The former were merely troops that had neither influence nor choice during the entire war.

    But to give some historic examples: Remember how Germany was split into West and East after WW2? And how quickly those sides were turned against each other by their respective new governments and the occupying powers?

    Or perhaps even more fitting, the puppet state of Fascist Italy? Its leader pushed into power by a foreign nation's military might, its people then being turned into auxiliaries of said foreign power, forced to cede once-conquered territories to this "new friend" which then proceeds to conduct carpet bombing and mass-executions against suspected partisans? Sounds familiar? :P

    PS: The Hidaki has now been implemented into the game. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Jeremy314 and Valis, While I agree with your logic, you missed one very importaint issue: You are assuming that they will think and react like a person from the Western world today. They are not Euporean nor American, and they certainly are not human. To apply western values and sensabilities to someone from a different cultural upbringing is a falacy. That is often the reason why misuderstandings occur during negotiations. One side or the other assumes that the other will think or respond like they will, when said group will not, a faux pas occurs, and a line is unintetionally crossed.

    How the Japanese milliraty leadership acted and reacted to US movement in the war is a classic example of this. The Japanese viewed US embargos as an actively hostile act of war, while the US viewed it as passive and neutral. The Japanese millitary used the embagro to justify the attack on Pearl Harbor. THe leadership believed that a quick and decisive strike on the US would devistate the ability of the US to make war. They believed that by sending the message of war to the embassy in Washington DC before the attack was enough. Contrast that with How Admiral Yamamoto believed the US would act. Yamamoto believed that going to war with the US would be suicidal. He knew that US forces would recover very quickly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. He knew that delivery of the message of war to the US President before the attack meant more than the message being at the embassy. Differences in priories is what lead to irreconsialable missunderstanding and ultimatly to war. Yamamoto understood the American way of thinking. That is why he was so effective compaired to his peers.

    Time and again human cultures in the past have made poor decisions, and returned to tyranny and opression after only a short time of freedom. A classic case is the French Revolution. They replaced one set of dictators with another. China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and Russia have also doen the same thing, replacing one horrible ruler with another. It is only recently, when we keep the memory of the past fresh in our minds, that we avoid making the terrible mistakes of the past from repeating.

    As for the Cardassians, Jem'Hadar, Romulans and the like, one must think about how they would react, and not how we, as humans, would react. We certainly should not expect said cultures and peoples to react as someone from the Western World would act. The Federation is suppose to represent the western world's philosophy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yes, I would like to have the Dominion forces seperate from the Cardassians.

    I plan to make a Cardassian Sci and a Jem'Hadar (if that second one is possible).

    But I wouldn't want him to be a Jem'Hadar flying around in Cardy ships, I'd like him to have Dominion Vessels.

    I am particularly of Dominion ships and would love to have some of my own.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Valias wrote:
    Or perhaps even more fitting, the puppet state of Fascist Italy? Its leader pushed into power by a foreign nation's military might, its people then being turned into auxiliaries of said foreign power, forced to cede once-conquered territories to this "new friend" which then proceeds to conduct carpet bombing and mass-executions against suspected partisans? Sounds familiar? :P

    PS: The Hidaki has now been implemented into the game. :)

    obviously Valias known OBSOLUTELY nothing about history.

    Benito Mussolini was in power LONG before hitler!
    he came to power at the end of the treaty of Versailles (spelling?)
    he was actual the FIRST fascist dictator... NOT the second.

    he only joined hitler's military plan for conquest AFTER hitler had conquered northern france. then benito invaded southern france and north africa.
    southern france then quickly sided with the germans and become "Vichi france". so italy had to back off! then italy bogged down in quagmire in northern africa. (enter romel and the german africa corps)

    also... the german people were NOT the victims of the genocide. the jews were....
    and the VAST majority of jews LEFT germany for america of israel after the war.
    even today, the jewish population in germany is very VERY low, regardless of what happened to germany aftere the war. even after 60 years, very VERY few jews would ever consider working for germany and most STILL don't trust them.

    also, the people of east germany weren't voluntarily against the west...
    they were CONQUERED by the SOVIET UNION, who had to build a GIGANTIC wall to keep them from defecting in droves of hundreds and thousands to west berlin (called the "berlin wall"... maybe you've heard of it?)
    as soon as the soviet union lost the ability to control the warsaw pact through fear, the wall came down, and germany EASILY reunited... even after a forced seperation of 40 years.
    not even 40 years on opposing sides could convince the east and west germans that they were enemies.
    as soon as they had the chance, they reunited with NO ill will.

    i don't mind bringing history to the table for these wonderful threads... just be sure you KNOW something about history before you do please.

    correcting the misinformed aside....

    if anyone thinks the infamously vengeful cardassian people would make a REAL distinction between the Jem Hadar and the Changelings or Vorta... you are mistaken.
    i don't believe the cardassians would forgive the Jem Hadar who pulled the trigger in the dominion genocide against cardassia just because they were "following orders". WOULD YOU?

    I DO agree that the cardassian people are sick and tired of the "true way" type military dictatorship. however Garak wasnt military, he was a "civilian", working for the Obsidian order and later Starfleet.
    he was an operative!
    and event the Guls and Leggets of the central command FEARED the obsidian order... who were considered a seperate organization!
    Garak despised the arrogant Guls and Leggets, and never failed to remind people around him how uncultured and stupid he thought the cardassian military was.
    he was a civilian THROUGH and THROUGH.
    he loved his cardassian literature, opera, paintings, and there "golden age" before the famine that brought the Central command to power!!!

    ** i consider Garak a VERY close match to Vladamire Putin.... a shrewd and enigmatic leader, who was the head of the KGB and kept russia from drowning in its now found freedom.... not with an iron fist... but from the scary shadows.**

    although Vlad kept russia together and made her strong again, he did so with secret and unscrupulous means... including political backstabbing and assassination.
    THAT is how i see GARAK!!!
    he cares about cardassia but he is a BIG BOY. not a naive "good guy"....
    he KNOWS the hearts of evil men... and although he respects the feds... he KNOWS they are naive and do NOT understand cardassia.... but he does.
    he and Empress Sela have more in common then you think!

    however, in the end, when push comes to shove, Garak will side with the feds, because the feds were the ones that helped free his people.
    but always remember, Gark saw a LOT in the federation. he knew about section 31, starfleet corruption, assassination of romulan dignitaries, and a LOT of predudice against "spoon heads" ( a HUMAN term for cardassians)
    **always remmeber that Elim Garaks take on the federation may be MUCH different then YOURS.**

    while the Cardassian military, renegade or not, will always loathe the federation for hurting their pride... after defeating them TWICE in the Border Wars and in the Dominion War.
    plus... no one in the old high command ever trusted Garak, or his evil father, who was the head of the obsidian order!!!

    THIS would be the source of contension.... not the Jem Hadar.
    BOTH the Detapa council ANd the true way ANd the military would harbor a serious hatreed and resentment for the Jem Hadar... even if they were just "following orders"

    of all three cardassian factions, its actually Garak and the council that would be the most inclined to forgive them and true to assimilate them into cardassian society.... because the are level headed civilians!

    and are we FORGETTING SOMETHING?

    the Jem Hadar? maybe?
    do THEY want to be the lapdogs of a bunch of cardassian terrorists?
    is THAT where their warrior culture would lead them??? REALLY??!

    lets call this what it REALLY is...
    the cardassian PvE content is really just a re-hash of the dominion war... and an excuse for feds to blast Jem Hadar and Cardassian galors to relive the fleet battles of DS9... whcih is conveniently nearby!

    i think it would be MUCH easier to re-do the "true way" as an ALL-Jem Hadar terrorist organization that has gone rogue from the founders.
    the Jem Hadar have rebelled against the dominion many times in the past. now that they are seperated from the Gamma... it would be ALL too easy to break their hold!

    and what about tetracel White... the STAPLE of the Jem Hadar? do the cardassians know how to make it?
    i don;t think so... but the Jem Hadar DO!
    and i doubt they would trade Vorta masters for Cardassian... they would cut their own stuff and make their own way... scarface style!

    as for the klingons and the Jem Hadar... i agree that although the klingon respect them... they would never actually work together.
    after all, the klingons RESPECT the feds... but they are currently at WAR!!! (LOL)

    this is a great thread, sometimes i wish some of YOU guys were writing instead of cryptic LOL.
    maybe thats too harsh... but come on... surely this can be done better.

    and i find it very strange that me... a klingon nut... would be so involved in trying to shed light on cardassian history and attitudes.
    i thought for sure the cardassian fans would be coming out of the wood work for a thread like this!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    shizaru wrote:
    Doesn't make the empire fond of the Jems. They might respect them as warriors, but I don't think the klingons would have any love for them. As one of the klingons said (paraphrased) "They don't fight for honor, they fight because that is what they were designed to do".

    i completely agree with shizura, who normally makes astute abservations, i just forgot who originally said it when i wrote about this topis in the last post.

    just wanted to give credit where credit is due.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    We HAVE separate Dominion and Cardassians.

    AND we have the True way.

    The Cardassians operate a democratic system now since the fall of the Dominion in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion is still in the Gamma Quad and is reaching back into Alpha. The True Way are just a faction of the old Cardassian regime that what to regain their power, with whatever forces the Dominion have remaining in the Alpha Quadrant/Gamma.

    Maybe Odo returning to the Great Link hasn't changed the Founder's direction on things, such a defeat would not be taken lightly by the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant. I expect they will return.

    Anyway, there is a distinction right now between true way and cardassian. Some missions outlining this point in particular are available.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    nynik wrote:
    We HAVE separate Dominion and Cardassians.

    AND we have the True way.

    i think the point of this thread is that this current situation is NOT enough.

    i think what people seem to want it a strong and independent cardassia, with an enigmatic and often dangerous leader at it's head (garak)

    ... and a "true way" consisting of EITHER all cardassian OR all Jem Hadar.... but NOt both (which can be renamed if all jem hadar)

    MANY poeple in game, not just on this post, feel that even the cardassian "old guard" would refuse to work with or for their former masters and killers. no matter how bad they wanted the old system back

    and many people feel the Jem hadar wouldn't become the lapdogs for remnants of a beaten and seemingly incompitent regime.

    and EVEN MORe players feel Elim Garak, and a whiley cardassia, would be much more fun...
    even if they still sided with the federation.
    i think the villinous schemers plan on playing romulan.
    and i think the "honorable high tech super-barbarians/samurai" are presently all in the klingon ranks (hi... thats ME!)

    and for those that think the cardies are on the verge of joining the feds...
    think of occupied Germany and Japan after WW2.
    they accepted aid and military assistence from the allies ofter the war. but they didnt join the US!
    they became strong and less "evil" and eventually became allies... but ALSO economic and espionage rivals!!!

    i think MANy posters here are closet Cardies who are trying an attempt at laying the foundation for the future 4th playable faction months down the line.

    and they ain't no dominion dogs.

    they are cardassians... and they want to play the galactic game of danger and meyhem!!!
    CARDIE STYLE!
    with Galors, beam overloads, a BIG book of vengeance, and TONS and TONS of spying!!!
    (and 4-5 very bright lights *giggles*)

    furthermore... the "true way" seem to have an endless supply of ships and soldiers... hardly the "terrorist" orgnization they are made out to be.

    why CAN'T the cardassians say to the feds:

    "hey... thanks for all the TRIBBLE whoopins and economic aid.... but if you don't mind we'd like to be a strong player in the alpha again... signed: Garak and the "spoonheads"
    P.S. we may or may not be seen shooting at stuff in or around fed and klingon territory! "

    the feds gave a LOT of help and aid to the Klingon empire.... heck, they were allies for 50 years!

    now look how that has turned out LOZ

    there is so much plot potential here. potential that can be used to lay the foundation for the 4th faction.
    and make NO mistake... after the romulans get their go 2-4 months from now, next at bat will be the CARDASSIANS!

    not the borg, not the undine, not the dominion, not the spider people or the breen-cicles...
    the Cardies.... trust me!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    This pair never really made logic a Dominion and Breen pair is much more believable After in the last show DS9 of the Dominion tried wipe put the Cardassians.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    D-Rek wrote: »
    Stuff...

    Yeah I'd have to agree with that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    D-Rek wrote: »
    I think MANY posters here are closet Cardies who are trying an attempt at laying the foundation for the future 4th playable faction months down the line.

    and they ain't no dominion dogs.

    Ummm..... I am a closet dominion player. I want to play a Jem'Hadar or Vorta sometime soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just to play Devil's Advocate, since the Vorta and Jem'Hadar are cloned, could the True Way be cloning thier own to boost thier numbers and using K-white to keep them loyal? I mean, I'm just throwing stuff on the wall and see what sticks. It's not my fault if the writers put plot holes in. XP

    Also, could the Jem'Hadar possibly be following a more "mercenary" path like the Breen? Sure it may not necessarily be uber-honorable, but being forced between either being idealistic or starving (since I'm sure creds/energy/whatever is needed for the parts/ingredients for K-white production), what choice would they really have (since they cut thier ties w/ the Dominion)? :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just to play Devil's Advocate, since the Vorta and Jem'Hadar are cloned, could the True Way be cloning thier own to boost thier numbers and using K-white to keep them loyal? I mean, I'm just throwing stuff on the wall and see what sticks. It's not my fault if the writers put plot holes in. XP

    Also, could the Jem'Hadar possibly be following a more "mercenary" path like the Breen? Sure it may not necessarily be uber-honorable, but being forced between either being idealistic or starving (since I'm sure creds/energy/whatever is needed for the parts/ingredients for K-white production), what choice would they really have (since they cut thier ties w/ the Dominion)? :confused:

    well heck....

    at least that TRIES to make sens of the situation... maybe you should wirte the "True Way" plots from now on!!!
    SERIOUSLY!!! :)

    i may not agree with this post, but at least Maltz is TRYING to work something out with the plot that makes any kind of sense.

    haivng the Jem Hadar go Merc is a GOOD idea!!!
    and seeing as the Breen and dominion already have "good" history between them... that idea is actually a good one.

    although "cloning K-white addictied cardassians" is comical and entertaining... i think we should leave that one on the drawing board.

    and if not enough players want cardasians to be the 4th power...

    i say seperate the cardies from the jem hadar anyway!!!
    then make a Jem Hadar faction... kind of like an "evil" rebel alliance!
    **says the following in the deep "coming attractions guy" movie voice:

    "once the masters of entire qudrants...
    the Jem Hadar are now struggling to survive...
    fugitives in a strange land...
    a land of wimpy humans, arrogant romulans, ignorant klingons and swindling ferrengi...
    only their iron will, and enough K-white to stave off the shakes, can see them through to their DESTINY!!!!"

    but either way... lets break them up!
    who knows... maybe with enough time we'll see BOTH cardassian AND Jem Hadar factions!!!
    a land of great mystery
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