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The Exchange Is Out Of Hand

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I would like to see a tax or a penaulty on players who put stuff on the exchange at crazy unbeleavible prices and at that put a penaulty on players who use it as a storage unit and in fact if you cant store it with your main chter make another chter or so on and if you still need more room sell your items to the vendors STOP PLACING ITEMS AT UNFAIR PRICES AND STOP USING IT AS A STORAGE what ever system is being used now to try to stop players from placing items in the exchange and using it as a storage unit is not working players still storing items in the exchange and at that players are putting crazy unbeleavible prices to where other players cant get to them is wrong im a Vice Admral ok but im fighting for the lower lvl guys that are getting robbed of thier right to have good stuff the exchange must change its gone too far either put a tax or a penaulty on players who put items in out of reach prices. :mad:
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    It's in the engineering report. The Exchange will have fees added to it. I assume they'll work like many other games: half when you list, half when you sell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The huge prices you see on say for instance MK I common items is a gold buyer. They post a meaningless item for huge prices. It is a way for them to move currency from one account to another.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    How exactely will preventing player from using the exchange as storage make more items available at reasonable prices?

    Wouldn't removing all the "storage" items from the exchange lessen the availability of items on the exchange (the prices my be unreasonable but isn't the alternative simply those items being missing)?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    You might be less inclined to list an item for 10 million credits if you know it's going to cost you 500k to list it and 500k more when you sell it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    indeed once fees a added its gonna be a much better experience
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You might be less inclined to list an item for 10 million credits if you know it's going to cost you 500k to list it and 500k more when you sell it.

    depending on the item, if you sell. But That part is gonna be a problem. You post something and pay a fee, they will need to stop returning it unless they return your fee.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Once fees go live, people will probably up their prices by the amount of the fee lol


    still, I agree, the exchange is a wild place.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Here it goes again ... I swear this topic should be on a bi-weekly, automated recall list or something.

    The exchange is priced the way it is for two reasons:

    1. People are moving money between characters, because - it's currently THE ONLY WAY to do so now. If and when Cryptic allows us to send money to our alts ... which c'mon Cryptic - really?! I can't mail my alt money? Lame. But, if they allow that, you'll see a drop off of that action on the exchange - not totally, but a sharp decline.

    2. It's priced that way, because people buy the items at that price. As long as people keep purchasing items at the listed prices ... people will keep selling at that price. Common supply and demand. If the demand is high and people are willing to pay ... it's expensive.

    Now you personally, may not be able to afford it ... sorry, but you don't get hand outs in life. You either buy it at that listed price or leave it.

    For the most part, 99% of the stuff on the exchange is not needed anyway. You don't need to spend a single EC in this game to do anything. I did all off the Captain level mission with a commander level ship, weapons and equipment ... on easy - it was a breeze.

    You really only need the badges and emblems - that's all. And those you work for via dailies.

    Quit whinning.

    EDIT: In addition to #1 ... there is another way to move money, but how much do you really trust your fleet mate or that "friend" to actually give you back all that EC?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Taxes always get passed on to the consumer, that is standard capitalist methodology. . .

    ~D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You might be less inclined to list an item for 10 million credits if you know it's going to cost you 500k to list it and 500k more when you sell it.

    right, but not listing the item at all doesn't make it more available to people who want to buy it.

    <reasonably priced item> is more available than <unreasonably priced item> is more available than <no item>

    Removing the middle option enteierly doesn't make more of the fist option but rather more of the last option. If i didn't expect the item to sell at the price i listed it, I'll now just not list it so no-one can buy it instead of only those with more EC than sence can buy it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I agree that there needs to do something of the Exchange as a type of Player Storage, but I heavily disagree in adding Fees. Because that would mean the Exchange just became Ebay.


    Sending money to another character? Why?

    I can understand starting off and wanting decent gear, but you can just easily buy the gear with your wealthy character and mail it to the character that needs it. I've done this for 5 of my 6 characters.

    Second, if a character needs money, just keep Shields, Impulse Engines, and Deflector arrays that drop and mail them to the character that needs it. Thats quick and easy money right there.



    Right now, what the Exchange really needs is:

    1) Restoring back to small listings. (The large ones are too annoying)

    2) Better sorting system

    3) Item information on smaller scale (which is especially true with Kits and Bridge Officer candidates).



    *) Identifying Sellers.

    I really want Cryptic to change in the Exchange is Identifying Sellers. Because I don't want buy from a person I dislike, and I certainly don't want to buy from a Gold Farmer and contribute to their lifestyle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    People put items up on the exchange and other people buy it, the exchange is fine. If you can't earn the EC then you can't earn the item.

    On a side note; the storage BS is definitely something i want removed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    well unfortuneatly you got your wish a tax is being implemeted on the exchange, i think it is dreadful and a mistake. the prices will go up to make up for the money lost. no more deals will be found on the exchange and to make this point im going to put 20 items that cost 1 merit on exchange for 999999999 for a week and continue to do that until the fee is taken away. i know i will have to pay the fee but i dont have nothing better to spend my money on. lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    It is not the exchange that's out of hand, it's the people who believe that there should be no rare items that are out of hand.

    There's a reason that silver and gold are known as "precious metals".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    TR71777 wrote: »
    I would like to see a tax or a penaulty on players who put stuff on the exchange at crazy unbeleavible prices and at that put a penaulty on players who use it as a storage unit and in fact if you cant store it with your main chter make another chter or so on and if you still need more room sell your items to the vendors STOP PLACING ITEMS AT UNFAIR PRICES AND STOP USING IT AS A STORAGE what ever system is being used now to try to stop players from placing items in the exchange and using it as a storage unit is not working players still storing items in the exchange and at that players are putting crazy unbeleavible prices to where other players cant get to them is wrong im a Vice Admral ok but im fighting for the lower lvl guys that are getting robbed of thier right to have good stuff the exchange must change its gone too far either put a tax or a penaulty on players who put items in out of reach prices. :mad:

    Holy run on sentence, block of text, Captain! It's going to swallow the ship whole. Shields! Fire! Fire everything!!
    The huge prices you see on say for instance MK I common items is a gold buyer. They post a meaningless item for huge prices. It is a way for them to move currency from one account to another.

    I don't think people are putting common Mk IX Phaser Arrays up for 200,000 a piece because they are moving credits. They actually believe they are worth that much.
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You might be less inclined to list an item for 10 million credits if you know it's going to cost you 500k to list it and 500k more when you sell it.

    Amen!

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    One thing I didn't see mentioned that in part explains the high exchange prices is inflation, which has been happening since launch. Many things like purple bridge officers cost millions of credits now. There are simply not enough money sinks for credits, yet that's the only currency used on the exchange. New players find themselves unable to afford much on the exchange because the income ramps up over time, so they depend largely on badge, emblem, and mark gear. But for admirals who have played awhile, energy credits almost lose meaning because of the low prices things you buy from merchants costs; you can afford endless hypos and such. The low prices on the items themselves add to the perception that the items are way overpriced (which they are, but because of inflation).

    The problem is both not enough things of value to spend energy credits on and too many energy credits sloshing around. Adding a listing fee will further hurt new players while having a minimum impact on those of us with more credits than needs. If there is a fee, it should probably ramp up with the size of the purchase so cheaper items pay less fees as a percentage also. The fee could get as large as necessary on items over a million credits to allow Cryptic to regain control of the economy. Adding in a Boff store will help as both a money sink and an option to the highest priced items on the exchange, the ultra rare trait or skill Boff.

    There should be a lot more things players like to spend energy credits on, but unfortunately pretty much all the things they can add for us to spend our excess EC on are now being sold in the C-Store instead. New off-duty costumes and slots and such could be and probably should be available for EC, along with emotes and bridge options and trophies and such.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    TR71777 wrote: »
    STOP PLACING ITEMS AT UNFAIR PRICES

    What is an 'unfair' price? If you don't like my price, don't pay it. And if no one is willing to pay it, I fail to make a sale... but if someone does pay my asking price, THEY obviously did not think it was 'unfair'.
    im fighting for the lower lvl guys that are getting robbed of thier right to have good stuff the exchange must change its gone too far either put a tax or a penaulty on players who put items in out of reach prices. :mad:

    What 'right to good stuff' is that? And what 'right' does a player have to get something from another player at less than they are willing to part with it? Things too expensive for you? Grind harder and lose the sense of unearned entitlement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Fees are a step in the right direction to pull currency out of the game. The problem with the exchange isn't that the prices are insane. The prices are a symptom of an inflated economy. How much money do rear admirals make off the drops they get from their dailies? Then they upgrade their weapons with emblems or marks and sell the old ones for 12,000 a piece. They also make energy credits for completing their dailies and don't pay anything for ship or char heals.

    Taxing the exchange is a step in the right direction, but I think there should be a fee on a lot more than that. A scaling cost to healing and crafting is a good idea, imho. Anything that takes money away from the admirals who ultimately dictate the market.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The 7 day limit on items puts a cramp on using it for storage. I suppose you could keep re-listing it, but eventually, it becomes a real pain to keep doing that with lots of items.

    Prices on the exchange are determined by supply and demand. IT IS WORKING PROPERLY. Prices will be high as long as people are willing to buy it at that price. Sorry, there is no free lunch. If you don't want to pay, then go farm for it yourself.

    Now, the underlying reason why people are paying so much is because of INFLATION which is defined (by Webster dictionary) as an increase in the supply of MONEY, or in this case, energy credits. The game does not have a way of effectively draining EC out of the system. Think about it. As people play, there are drops being collected. Some of it is sold on the exchange which doesn't change the overall supply of EC (the EC is just transferred from one person to another). However, a lot of items (mainly white), are just vendored, which in effect creates EC into the game. As more and more EC is added into the game, people can afford more, and prices go up. It's like printing money - it leads to inflation. The only EC drain in the game is buying stuff from vendors, and Dabo. But there are far more items sold to vendors than to is bought, and there is a limit to how much you can bet at a time with Dabo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    Sending money to another character? Why?

    Because I want another of my toons to have more money obviously but more importantly... what's it to you?
    Right now, what the Exchange really needs is:

    1) Restoring back to small listings. (The large ones are too annoying)

    2) Better sorting system

    3) Item information on smaller scale (which is especially true with Kits and Bridge Officer candidates).

    I agree with those... plus...

    - Sort BOffs by Faction!.

    When I am K side I do not even want to see which Fed BOffs are for sale.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The silly fee system is going to hurt the exchange so bad lol...and watch all the complaint threads form up when this is implimented. :rolleyes:

    All I can say is: Be careful what you wish for...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Once fees go live, people will probably up their prices by the amount of the fee lol


    still, I agree, the exchange is a wild place.

    That is exactly what will happen. The buyer will in the end pay for the listing fee and items will cost more. I see this back firing big time.

    What might be good is selling things at auction. Have people bid on an item and let that determine the value. That would probably make it harder to use it as storage and for gold farmers to move money from one toon to the other.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    TR71777 wrote: »
    I would like to see a tax or a penaulty on players who put stuff on the exchange at crazy unbeleavible prices and at that put a penaulty on players who use it as a storage unit and in fact if you cant store it with your main chter make another chter or so on and if you still need more room sell your items to the vendors STOP PLACING ITEMS AT UNFAIR PRICES AND STOP USING IT AS A STORAGE what ever system is being used now to try to stop players from placing items in the exchange and using it as a storage unit is not working players still storing items in the exchange and at that players are putting crazy unbeleavible prices to where other players cant get to them is wrong im a Vice Admral ok but im fighting for the lower lvl guys that are getting robbed of thier right to have good stuff the exchange must change its gone too far either put a tax or a penaulty on players who put items in out of reach prices. :mad:

    Hmmm..this sounds AWFULLY familiar. Didn't you start a thread like a week ago, almost word-for-word? Seriously, some people just can't let things go (I should know, I have a couple topics that I just can't let sit). Look, they stated in the latest Engineering Report that there will be a listing fee. I don't mind that, as long as it's not a ridiculous amount...maybe 10-15% of the asking price. The Exchange is the first auction house that I've used that DOESN'T require a listing fee (that I can remember).

    However, that alone will NOT fix the problems that the Exchange has. It needs to be completely overhauled, or at least streamlined. I haven't used it in months, so I don't know what they've already changed, but a sort function will go a long way to filter out the "unfair prices" (whatever that means). Adding a tax would just be an EC sinkhole, no more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    If my prices were so unfair, I wouldn't have a mailbox full of "item sold" messages. Keep buying, my little consumerists! Make daddy rich.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Supply and demand.... We've been over this before.

    Can't wait to add more EC to my Exchange prices, so that whoever buys my stuff, pays my expences.
    (^ Sarcasm, but it is true. Prices will rise even futher when the "tax" is added... The oppersite effect of what people screaming for "control" want).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I feel very strongly that the exchange is way over priced and people are simply profiteering off of it. However, that is the virtue of a free makret. As others have said, and as much as I distate the exchange, you can grind for just about anything you want. Do enough star cluster missions on elite and you will get what you want. However, this only applies to gear. BO's now that is a whole different story. Those prices need to change. One you can not grind for BO's you get them only a specific level ups and then its pure luck from there. Two.. actual game play mechanis are affected by BO abilities. You can not get BO III or APSIF III any other way than BO. They must change or Cryptic needs to give us a store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I'm someone that puts items on the exchange for profit.

    Every few days, I fly to <undisclosed location> and purchase 20 <items> from a difficult to locate vendor. I check the "going rate" on the exchange for those <items> and I put the <items> on the exchange at several different prices.

    Every time I do, there is always some joker selling it for more. However, the number of these items on the exchange is really small. Because the items are difficult for some to find, and in an out of the way semi-obnoxious location.. I'm guessing that people either don't know about that location, or don't care to stop their episode chain, and fly 6 sectors away to get that item. Are they using it for crafting, or PVP? I don't know honestly. All I know is that they sell.

    Most of the time, my lowest priced <items> tend to be the lowest price available, about 1.5 times the cost to buy the item. At the same time, my higher priced copies of that exact same item can get listed for 10 times the purchase price, or more.

    Over the course of a few days, the cheap ones are snatched up, and the market starts being willing to pay a little more to equip their away teams, or whatever. Let me say that again.. Week after week, there's always someone willing to pay upwards of 10x the "value" for those items.

    The practice has really proven quite lucrative.. and I never have to worry about having the EC when I want to redesign my character, redesign my ship, or re-outfit my bridge crew.

    Is that abusive? I don't know.. I'm just doing what the devs suggested, and gaming the exchange. It's a fun little metagame.. exploiting the economics of rarity.. I feel a little like Marco Polo, with my secret trade route to exotic lands, bringing back highly sought-after treasures for everyone to enjoy... for a price.

    It takes about 25 minutes to do the run and list everything (wish I had one of those fast transwarp drives).. and I do it one or two times a week. I don't have a LOT of time to play STO during the week, so If I can farm a bit of EC during the limited evening time during the week, to make my weekend playtime more enjoyable...at the same time I'm taking hard-to-find items and making them easily accessable at prices people are obviously willing to pay,

    Where's the harm here?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Here it goes again ... I swear this topic should be on a bi-weekly, automated recall list or something.

    The exchange is priced the way it is for two reasons:

    1. People are moving money between characters, because - it's currently THE ONLY WAY to do so now. If and when Cryptic allows us to send money to our alts ... which c'mon Cryptic - really?! I can't mail my alt money? Lame. But, if they allow that, you'll see a drop off of that action on the exchange - not totally, but a sharp decline.

    2. It's priced that way, because people buy the items at that price. As long as people keep purchasing items at the listed prices ... people will keep selling at that price. Common supply and demand. If the demand is high and people are willing to pay ... it's expensive.

    Now you personally, may not be able to afford it ... sorry, but you don't get hand outs in life. You either buy it at that listed price or leave it.

    For the most part, 99% of the stuff on the exchange is not needed anyway. You don't need to spend a single EC in this game to do anything. I did all off the Captain level mission with a commander level ship, weapons and equipment ... on easy - it was a breeze.

    You really only need the badges and emblems - that's all. And those you work for via dailies.

    Quit whinning.

    EDIT: In addition to #1 ... there is another way to move money, but how much do you really trust your fleet mate or that "friend" to actually give you back all that EC?

    All of THIS. I did not touch the exchange ONCE until I hit VA. Not a necessary way to play the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I haven't used it in months, so I don't know what they've already changed,
    I've been using it a bit because at Captain 1 I had enough EC's to buy pretty much all the Mk VIII stuff I wanted, including some green stuff. Now that might not be real impressive, but this is my first character so I can't bankroll a character with a rich alt.

    However I've not found any real major problem finding what I want. I wanted to buy Mk VIII phasers, a quant torp, maybe some consoles for my cruiser and some new guns for me and my boffs.

    I went to the exchange, selected Captain and Ship Weapon from the drop downs, and typed phaser beam and then hit search.

    The system popped up with all the phaser beam arrays Mk VII and VIII, starting with the lowest price first. I bought some, did the same for the torpedo, consoles, and then personal weapons. It took me maybe 10 minutes to buy a full set of ship weapons and consoles, and some new personal weapons.

    Honestly I don't see how much easier it could be, unless I could sort by Mk value.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    What this comes down to is that, basically, the game needs an EC sink. Dabo isn't doing the job, for two reasons:

    1. You can only bet 300 EC max per spin, when I can make ~90,000 ECs selling the data samples I find in one patrol mission
    2. The only thing you can get from latinum is lame (holo-emtters that run out).

    As has been said before, the game needs a money sink, and an exchange tax isn't my first choice. But I'm also already rich, so I don't really care that much. Just gonna pass the cost on to everyone I'm selling to on the exchange.
This discussion has been closed.