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LCARS touchscreen Control app for PC

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Someone should make an updated LCARS which is a good UI and serves a purpose beyond fandom. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    do you mean for real life use, if so i read somewhere that the military was looking into how star trek did things for designing their own stuff.

    And there are the LCARS operating systems that people have made like LCARS 32.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    i would like to try before I buy so where can I try it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Ok updated the downloadable trial version with the networking and the WM6 client. Also integrated the diagnostic mode into the trial and added a simple animation event as well, just for fun.

    Streamlined the offset settings and fixed some bugs. That missing file error in native mode will not pop up anymore, but I'm sure that there are more bugs to squish.

    As for LCARS usability, the Voyager style control LCARS is quite good. LCARS seems bulky because it is designed for touchscreens. You can't use tiny icons on touchscreens, because your finger is way bigger and less precise than the mouse cursor. You won't see the icon when you put your finger over it and you will have problem hitting the right thing if the icons are condensed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Right now I am using a Planar PT1700MU that has a 3M TS in it. When I look for the address it says 00000007 so I select COM 7 in your app's menu and it says that it failed to connect with the TS even when I disable the mouse driver.

    I've also been trying to find some good stock images to make a klingon interface.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    - Go to Control Panel.
    - Double click on Mouse
    This brings up the Mouse Properties window.
    - Select Hardware (Should be the 5th tab)
    - Select your TS and hit Properties

    For me it says the following:

    ELO Serial Touchmonitor Interface
    Type: Mouse or other pointer device
    Manufacturer: ELO Touchsystems Inc.
    Location: Communication Port 1 (COM1)

    The last one is the important. If it doesn't say COM anywhere, then your TS is probably an USB HID device and does not run through an internal COM=>USB adapter.

    To diag a HID device you need to use this app:
    http://www.sto-advanced.com/SimpleHIDWrite.exe

    Your TS device should be listed there. If it is not, then your may need to re-enable it.
    Please select your TS, hit INFO and note the VID(HEX) and the PID(HEX) values.
    Then close the Info window and press the touchscreen around the middle for 2-3 secs. Numbers should run with high speed on the screen.
    After that, please draw some vertical and horizontal lines onto the screen.
    Then save the results with the Save as... button and send the file to me please (yhtkapp at gmail dot com).

    With that data, I will ba able to add the support for your TS in no time

    Klingon interface, sounds good! Their UI is a bit confusing thou, triangles everywhere and no labels at all. This site has some cool interface desings: http://www.lcars.org.uk
    With the Animation event added to YHTK, your interface can be even more immersive. I'm currently perfecting my Tricorder phone layout and plan to beef up the space layout quite a bit..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    here are 2 diff klingon directional pads, but i can't decide which is better so i'll take your inputs.

    http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/629/klinkspace.jpg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    heres another ?. is there a way to assign part of the screen as a touchpad like on a normal laptop?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    heres a mock up of the tricorder from Nemesis for you pendra.

    http://www.joseralat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1944
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Don't want to sound like a party crasher here but... you can't do this here. This thread will end up locked.

    I suggest posting it on hailing frequencies, or another STO fan forum.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Pendra,

    Any suggestions on a touch screen display?

    I'm thinking of placing something like THIS to hold a 15-17" touch display between my main monitors and keyboard.


    I'm designing a new desk for my game room and I really would like to integrate a touch display into the mix.

    The end goal hopefully will be along THESE lines.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    What's this horrible voice telling you that you're changing course and such?

    The touchscreen looks way cool and tempts me to ask for a touchscreen for Christmas/birthday but wow, I hope that isn't part of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    @Wolf-Three-Five-Nine
    I experimented with something like this, but didn' work well. The most confortable setup was to put the keyboard away and lay the touchscreen to its place with a slight tilt. If you elevate the screen, you would need to lift your hand all the time to press something, which is slow and tiresome.
    You don't need to use the keyboard at all, except maybe in very tense ground combat. If I want to type, something I just switch to the TS keyboard, type the stuff then switch back to the control panel.


    @Kasensal
    The voices are from Star Fleet Armada 1. I kinda like them, but it is true that there is not enough of them. I will dig up more from other ST games. They are absolutely optional feedback sounds. You can add any kind of wave sound file or no sound at all. I try to keep everything as customizabe as possible with a lot of options available so everyone could make his/her optimal and immersive controller consol.

    @Volpe
    Thank you again for the help with the USB driver!
    With the latest additions, you can really set your imagination free with the Klingon console. If you sketch something up (even by free hand) I would help you to turn it into a complete console with all the bells and whistles. You can display the ship you are in like this: http://www.lcars.org.uk/lcars_a165.htm . The controls may be on the left panel, the powers on the middle and the shield control feedback on the right or something. Also, button blinking can be added.

    I'm thinking to add tools into the YHTK to create some limited minigame like thing. So for example, you would need to do some simple task to do on your tricorder. If you succeed the app sends the F. Otherwise it doesn't. Just for the sake of immersion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Pendra37 wrote: »
    @Wolf-Three-Five-Nine
    I experimented with something like this, but didn' work well. The most confortable setup was to put the keyboard away and lay the touchscreen to its place with a slight tilt. If you elevate the screen, you would need to lift your hand all the time to press something, which is slow and tiresome.
    You don't need to use the keyboard at all, except maybe in very tense ground combat. If I want to type, something I just switch to the TS keyboard, type the stuff then switch back to the control panel.

    Roger that. So any recommendations for an actual touch screen? I seem to find all sorts of mixed reviews on the web and I know there are a few different technologies avaialbe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'd like to hear recommendations for touch screens too. How do you know what to get?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The touchscreen itself is nothing more than a big “glass” plate placed over a normal LCD. You can place that addon over anything to make it a touchscreen, or buy pre assembled lcd+touch screens. Since this tech is just getting mainstream, you can find older, extremely high priced units that can do the same thing as new cheaper units.

    If you want a big one cheap, I’d advise to look around on EBay. I found my ELO 15″ screen for $75 there. It was cheap because it had a minor, but noticable pixel problem (a complete blue line) and some scratches.
    Something like this should work: http://cgi.ebay.com/ELO-ET1580L-ET1545L-15-Touchscreen-LCD-Monitor-USB-/160508340009?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item255f0ae729

    Since you will be laying it on the desk, it is better if the back of the LCD is flat and not round (Some ELOs have round back).

    Or this if you already have a 2nd LCD: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260611613770#vi-content

    The 15 inch 4:3 LCD works well, there is plenty of space for lots of buttons and stuff. Size wise a 15" wide may be an even better option. But it is just a matter of taste and desk size. Since the LCD part is completely regular, you can use it as a 2nd LCD monitor later on.

    Then there are these new Mimo monitors http://www.mimomonitors.com/ . They are brand new and well priced but offer limited monitor support only. They work through USB and not through your actual video card.

    Then you can get tablet PCs or laptops with touch screen. They work through LAN or WiFi, but they can get expensive! Around $500-1000 or more.

    You may use your touchscreen smartphone or pad though WiFi as well. Those phone screens are pretty small, but they may still be good for some spec hotkeys.

    There are plenty of possibilities!
    A Logitech G19 keyboard with comparable macroing capability can go for $200. Compared to that, a $100-150 touchscreen controller (which doubles as an LCD, too) sounds reasonable. The G19 or regular KBs are better in some aspects (like positive touch feedback and "multitouch" ) but they are not really customizable and lack the immersion factor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Heres a piece I've been working on thats based on the LCARS from VOY: End Game, and since my touch screen is a 17" and its resolution is 1280x1024 this one is also that size. I am looking for some input on how its going so far.

    http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7940/endgamespace.jpg

    And I've been building it from scratch with Adobe Illustrator CS4.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    That UI looks nice, but you may want to add that arch thing. That is a mandatory LCARS feature. You may also erase the button text. You can add them directly from YHTK. What will you use the 2nd circle for, Mouse view control?

    In the meantime, I made a Klingon UI layout:
    http://www.sto-advanced.com/wp-content/uploads/KlingonUI2.bmp

    And reworked the Fed layout.
    http://www.sto-advanced.com/wp-content/uploads/FLC_NewF2.bmp

    Both has the trays represented horizontally. The don't have text at all because you can add/change label text dinamically. Added a an auto run/random macro setting. With that on you can animate the background so the buttons blink/change color/text etc periodically. It looks pretty cool.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    hey, nice app, been doing this with a 13" toughbook styled tablet after getting into linux and modifying my ui myself to more resemble lcars.

    just a thought though, while this works for touchscreens available today and always having to load a program to use it. you might wish to think about taking this one step further as i have been trying to do and now with a new keyboard out it might be posible....the one step further would mainly being reconstructing the ui for dynamic placements so you can move the keys/images around on the fly and the reason i mention this is because of this...

    http://www.nmbtc.com/technologies/cool-leaf.html


    http://coolquirks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Cool-Keyboard-213.jpg

    while this keyboards programing is still in development for standard keyboard functions, the tech is quite real and already being manufactured. while the keyboard would esentialy stay a periferal instead of a direct interface console, i don't see why it would be that much more difficult to have the oled's behind the display of the keyboard render your araingment any moreso than a touchscreen tablet.


    .....just a thought.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Touch screen keyboard is easy to do. I made one up in like 30 minutes and even included in the YHTK pack.

    It has 2+1 problems thou:
    - Hard press needed. I need to hit the TS harder than any keyboard (does not help carpal tunnel).
    - Single touch. You can't press Shift+A easliy. You need to lock the global modifier keys before you hit the actual character then unlock it afterward.

    All this can be addressed by a Capacitive TS. It is multi-touch capable and does not require hard hitting at all.
    Resistive multi-touch is not a good idea, because it allows 2 concurent hit only.

    You can get capacitive TS for around 500+ at the moment.

    +1 problem still remains: the lack of tactile feedback.

    My app allows you to re-arrange your keys on the fly, but why would you want to do this? Rearranging a UI means you need to learn it again. It is tiresome after a short while, plus the re-arranging itself slows down your work.
    I just set up multiple profiles and switch when needed. So once you set up your UIs the way you want, you just won't change them.

    I'm very tempted to get a capacitive LCD and use it as a real, full feature keyboard, but they are a bit expensive ATM. Hopefully they will go down to the $300 range soon.

    As for apps, I'm pretty sure this Cool Leaf requires some drivers to use properly and an app to configure it.
    So basically, any capacitive TS + YHTK = something more versitale than Cool Leaf.
    The technology for this has been around for decades, but it was prohibitively expensive. It seems it is not the case anymore.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    sorry to confuse you on the re-arrangement of the keys on the fly, i mearly ment that it would provide a level of actual interaction based around the situation, why limit the visual interaction to a separate screen? if you can use an interface like this to provide keyboard input why not also alow it to do more. like having a folder be represented on the keyboard and using touch to move it to another folder "of course this is an over simplified exapmle" but the princable is the same.

    and yes i agree with you on the drivers and such but honestly, i don't see why a keyboard based around the design of a tablet premis would be any harder to have images rendered instead of letters would be outside the relm of posibility.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I have a nice big multi touch screen would love to be a beta tester
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Sure thing! I'd really like add support for multi touch.
    DL the trial from here:
    http://www.sto-advanced.com/yhtk/YHTK_Trial.zip
    Hit Native TS mode.
    Select the Universal USB (I assume it is an USB device)
    Touch the screen on 1 spot, then 2 spots then 3 spots etc. Do this a few times then save the log and send it to me. I will analize it and implement the necessary features to support your monitor type.
    The reward is a free copy of the app.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    How do I get an upgraded program Pendra?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Finally, I have a working Android client! Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19z-rNx7R_Q
    Not a terribly fast one, but it works. 0.05-0.2 sec delay on a touchscreen press and around 0.2-0.4 sec delay on the screen refresh, using a Chinese iRobot aPad. That pad can be classified as Inustrial waste product. Just imagine an Android 1.6 with a 175mHz CPU and 7" display. BTW it is being advertised as Andorid 2.0 and 533mHz CPU in some webshops so stay clear of those.
    Anyway, even the crappiest $80-100 pad could run it so it should work well with normal Andorid phones and pads.

    Now I only need to make an iSomething client to make the suite complete.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Any updates?
    Secret bump
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Pendra37 wrote: »
    Finally, I have a working Android client! Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19z-rNx7R_Q
    Not a terribly fast one, but it works. 0.05-0.2 sec delay on a touchscreen press and around 0.2-0.4 sec delay on the screen refresh, using a Chinese iRobot aPad. That pad can be classified as Inustrial waste product. Just imagine an Android 1.6 with a 175mHz CPU and 7" display. BTW it is being advertised as Andorid 2.0 and 533mHz CPU in some webshops so stay clear of those.
    Anyway, even the crappiest $80-100 pad could run it so it should work well with normal Andorid phones and pads.

    Now I only need to make an iSomething client to make the suite complete.

    I have a Samsung Galaxy S Captivate if you would like additional Android testing. It's got a 1Ghz Hummingbird CPU (mine is overclocked to 1.2Ghz stable) and uses it's internal storage as additional RAM via Swap (16GB internal, 8GB External SDHC.)

    I would be more than happy to give it a whirl and provide you with feedback.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The new 1.3.5 version is up and that includes the Android client apk.

    I took some time off to complete a paying job. It took 3 weeks but at least they didn't pay at the end. Doh, freelancing is hard.
    Unfortunately, I sold my aPad because it was pos and I wanted to use that extra income to get a better pad. Right now I have no way to test or improve the Android client. All I know that it worked some time ago but there was plenty of room for improvement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    This is fantastic! Might even save the game! (for me)....

    EDIT:

    I'll keep an eye out for iPad support.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    How progress on program? How stable is wifi?
    When full version be available?
This discussion has been closed.