1. Ent is the least beloved Trek series in the entire franchise. It had the lowest ratings of all recent Trek shows. Reviews were terrible. The show would have likely been cancelled had it not been "Star Trek" on the Paramount network.
As such, Ent is not a part of popular culture whereby casual players and casual Trek fans would get excited by any reference to the series. Simply put, if most Trek fans ignore the black sheep of the franchise, so too should the devs. They should focus on the Trek that was popular, along with the characters and races that were popular from the popular shows.
2. In the recent poll, the NX-O1 scored quite low, also indicating that most players have little desire to see that ugly little ship. The devs need to focus on the ships that players want, not on an illogical and irrational retrofit of a primitive and outdated museum piece. If they want to sell something in the c-store, they will focus on popular ships. The NX will not be profitable.
3. Making the Xindi would be a supreme waste of dev time. They'd have to make 7 species to represent the Xindi. I'd wager that 96% of the players would rather see the art team focus on 7 different species that are far more familiar to Star Trek fans. The devs have limited resources and a need to prioritize, so they should reject requests for the Xindi immediately.
4. (Lastly, a subjective argument) Enterprise abandoned its own story of the temporal cold war, future guy, etc., so why should the devs even care to add onto the Lore that the producers of the show stopped caring about? It's better for all if we just ignore how that show "contributed" to Trek lore.
The devs need to continue to focus on what people love about Trek, not what a large number of fans despise.
1. I think the death of the network it was on and a rocky start contributed to that. Just 1% of the Enterprise fanbase would be a massive gain. the kind that MMO developers spend hundreds of thousands in hopes of courting.
2. The Enterprise-J, from the same series, scored quite high.
3. Who says it's all or nothing? A few Xindi races are already made.
4. That's a plotline that this game could pickup. Especially since the main villain had no actor likeness attached to it.
One Reason to Ignore the OP:
"Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations"
Also, anecdotal evidence is not compelling evidence.
1) Enterprise had stronger characterizations and a broader emotional palette in its first Season compared to all other Star Trek series. Subjective but, then again, many of of the OP was.
2) The NX will be profitable. It has Star Trek on it. Star Trek fans generally don't know the meaning of "indulgence."
3) Xindi would open the door for lots of non-bipedal species and give us a chance to have the tech ready for difficult-but-lesser-known species that are "more beloved" (the most subjective criteria ever). It also allows the developers to come up with species that Star Trek was never able to do on the show (due to budget constraints).
4) Enterprise had some great storylines - even if the Cold War eventually felt hokey (it could've been far more interesting). The show had numerous episodes that were more emotionally layered and refused to deify the crew. Subjective but just as much as the OP's assertions.
there are 5 xindi species, not 7 and the aquatics are probably not going to happen any time soon because of their look so its more like 4.
viewing figures were lower than other shows but this is in part because of the trend in viewing figures for all tv shows. the increase in illegal downloads, the new tech to be able to watch one program whilst tapping another (i think its tivo in America, sky + in the UK), and the continual increase in channels means that viewing figures have been dropping for a long time. reviews were also fairly favourable and were hardly terrible as the op would have us think.
there have been several others sc-fi shows that had worse viewing figures that were considered much better that have either survived or been axed so i don't believe the name star trek was the only thing holding it together.
even though ENT is my least favourite of the shows, that does not mean i don't enjoy it or want to see the xindi or the sphere builders or future guy. the show may not have been my ideal cup of tea but i still enjoyed the visual aspects of it.
personally whilst the op thinks its better for all that they ignore it, it sounds like its just better for him.
Firefly was canceled by a larger network after just 14 episodes.
To make it worse: Arrested Development was canceled after 53 episodes (by the same network).
Enterprise was canceled after 98 episodes on a tiny network that was canceled.
There is a lot I could dispute with OP, but I'll go with number 4. They didn't abandon the Temporal Cold War, they solved it. In the Series Premiere for Season 4, Captain Archer prevented the Temporal Cold War from ever starting.
One Reason to Ignore the OP:
"Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations"
Also, anecdotal evidence is not compelling evidence.
So true.
1) Enterprise came out at the end of decades of Star Trek on a network that was failing with management that changed its time slot every month.
2) You would have been amazed with some of the stories planned for Season 5. (Tpol being half romulan, space kittehs, refit of the NX-01, etc.)
3) Enterprise lasted a season longer than the TOS.
4) They actually had a model for the refit of the NX-01 for season 5. (going to be in some calendar this coming year.)
5) It will sell.
6) It was the only Star Trek series I watched every single episode of every week it came out and I enjoyed the more human and exploration facet of it over the other series and I consider it my favorite Trek show.
2) You would have been amazed with some of the stories planned for Season 5. (Tpol being half romulan, space kittehs, refit of the NX-01, etc.)
I really, really wanted to see them make a season 5. Sadly I never saw ENT when it ran. I simply did not have a television during that period of my life.
I really, really wanted to see them make a season 5. Sadly I never saw ENT when it ran. I simply did not have a television during that period of my life.
Personally, once this game is more stabilized, I'd like to see the Iconians get involved in the TCW and devote maybe one season of STO content to fleshing out S5 of Enterprise, giving that series some closure.
The downside is, I doubt we'd see the likeness and voice assets that would be needed to make that happen.
Firefly was canceled by a larger network after just 14 episodes.
To make it worse: Arrested Development was canceled after 53 episodes (by the same network).
Enterprise was canceled after 98 episodes on a tiny network that was canceled.
actually they only broadcast 12 of the episodes of Firefly, and not in any particular order. The last 2 episodes only saw life on DVD.
I loved Firefly. Fox execs should have their asses removed after the general population has broke them in.
Personally, once this game is more stabilized, I'd like to see the Iconians get involved in the TCW and devote maybe one season of STO content to fleshing out S5 of Enterprise, giving that series some closure.
The downside is, I doubt we'd see the likeness and voice assets that would be needed to make that happen.
I had read that there was talk of making Shran (my favorite ENT character) a member of the crew and of season 5 hinting at the start of the Earth-Romulan war, something I've always wanted to see in a series.
actually they only broadcast 12 of the episodes of Firefly, and not in any particular order. The last 2 episodes only saw life on DVD.
I loved Firefly. Fox execs should have their asses removed after the general population has broke them in.
Eh... they never intended to give Firefly a chance. They didn't want a show like it. The only reason they went as far as they did with it was because they had a 3-series contract with Whedon. They probably ran it just long enough to say "we tried!".
I had read that there was talk of making Shran (my favorite ENT character) a member of the crew and of season 5 hinting at the start of the Earth-Romulan war, something I've always wanted to see in a series.
I was curious if they could get Jeffrey Combs to play more than four characters in an episode....
I think the fact that some fans missed the concept of an alt demission on Enterprise after the show, because the show challenged are idea of what is known. In the 29 Centry they had the ablity to record history from what was lost many years ago, the ability to go into the past and witness past events, however some fractions decided that witnessing was not all they where gonna do, some wanted to make it better for themselfs. In the proccess the Romulan Federation and Klingon Empire formed a tempreal protection consurdium, that would protect the current timeline and fix problems in it later on. The fact the unknown alaign race was trying to change the timeline from a different demention was so they could exist our demention in physical form. The Alien spares are what destroyed the Xindie homeworld in the past by making that area radioactive, the Aliens implated evedence that it was a Earth weapon in the destrustion of the planet so that the Xindia would launch a probe that would cut a swawp of destruction through floradia, that never happened in the orginal timeline, next the new star trek move is also related to that. Its evident that the temperal cold war was not abandoned, It just shows up now and than. For example The recent Star Trek movie is just as munch a part of Star Trek lore and gives you insight into the beginning of the Cold war. A destroit Romulan captain of a Mining vessel couldn't bare to see his wife die when the supernova hit romulanous and Ramous. How is he not part of the cold war.
Don't forget, Star Trek was on an overall downward slope audience-wise before Enterprise even aired. In Rick Berman's own words, they had gone to the well too many times. Enterprise was much closer to the spirit of TOS than any of the other series. I personally would have loved to see them do ten seasons, with one season equaling one year of ships time, spanning the entire Romulan war, and ending with the birth of the Federation.
And preferably not done as a holodeck episode featuring Riker and Troi. That last episode was symbolic of the one major flaw in the show: The producers seemed almost as if they were afraid to let it stand on it's own.
I respect Kirkfat's opinion, but I really can't agree with it. I enjoyed Star Trek: Enterprise and was disappointed it ended.
I do admit not everything was roses in that series. For example, I thought the Temporal Cold War was overdone and was glad to see it end with a whimper - everything they wanted to bring about via story hooks could've been done differently than by the use of time travel; I'm really not fond of time travel and ENT's approach to that was not one of its stronger points.
But then again, pretty much all the Trek series have shown weak points anyhow so I found it a forgiveable flaw. Or perhaps I'm just easily pleased.
Regardless, I'd consider it a poor choice to deprive some people of having something come in-game that they'd like because another crowd was elitistic on thier opinion of the subject matter. For example, I disliked Deep Space Nine to the point of considering it the weakest, less enjoyable Trek series - because of that, I could deem that Bajor, DS9, the many alien races tied to that plot and that horrid looking Defiant should all not be in STO.
It's my opinion. I really dislike DS9 and I think it made few good contributions to the Trek universe. But should my opinion deprive you of the thing you liked in it and the proper portrayal of that universe? What's more - will the inclusion of those truly brim my enjoyment of Star Trek Online?
Probably not. The only annoyance I have to put up with today is seeing the Defiant escorts as superior to the Akira-class starships, and even though it still baffles me I can live with it.
On the other side of that coin, I do consider that Enterprise-inspired content (such as the upcoming Andorian and Vulcan ships) would be neat additions to the game.
Despite it's numerous issues, I liked Enterprise a lot more than Voyager.
Amongst other things, it featured Andorians and Tellarites (two of the Federation's founding races). And Orions. And even a Gorn.
I agree. I think Voyager is what killed Star Trek. There was no real drama to it. It was like "How are they going to re-route power to save the ship this week. Watch them get out of some unknown, unimaginable trouble by chanting a few phrases of technobabble and pressing a few buttons. Tune in and see what new use they have for the deflector dish this week!"
Bah, I say. Bah! Give me Kirk in a torn shirt making a cannon out of bamboo to shoot a giant rubber lizard with a visible zipper, any day of the week. Or Archer just brazening his way through a situation by the seat of his pants. That's drama.
I agree. I think Voyager is what killed Star Trek. There was no real drama to it. It was like "How are they going to re-route power to save the ship this week. Watch them get out of some unknown, unimaginable trouble by chanting a few phrases of technobabble and pressing a few buttons. Tune in and see what new use they have for the deflector dish this week!"
Hmmh. In general, I enjoyed ENT. I hated the entire Temporal Cold War story arc, because I dislike time travel in general and because I had hoped that ENT would be more about the preludes to TOS (like the Romulan War that was already mentioned). But I liked the actors, the characters and the design. "In a Mirror, Darkly" is amongst my favorite episodes of all series and really showed was the series was capable of.
The saddest thing is that I now believe the series was cancelled just as it was about to get interesting again.
In terms of STO, I do not really care for the ship - but I have high hopes that my Fed will finally get pants and boots that fit to each other just as much as they might fit to the TNG movie top. Somehow this top only seems to work with the TNG movie pants, but there's no way to combine them with boots. So... give me these uniform parts already!
Ok, first of all I have been a ST fan for 30 years just to give you an idea how long I have loved the franchise.
Now I will say something very unpopular around here ' I like Voyager and loved Janeway' . However I will admit there were some dreadful episodes, but then in every incarnation of Trek there always are. Maybe the fact Janeway was the first female Captain colours my views, but I still think she was much more interesting a character than Archer.
Now something else unpopular it seems, I never liked Enterprise. In the beginning it was trying much too hard to get away from associating itself with the ST name. I found it incredibly dull to be honest, and I don't agree it has alot in common with TOS. Unlike with ALL the other series, I never looked forward to watching it each week. I do think though, that in it's last season it was starting to find it's feet and improved significantly. Unfortunately, by then it was too late and it was dropped.
The NX itself was also disappointing, it was like the shows producers just took the Akira and flipped it over.
Reading this thread is interesting. I'm really surprised that ENT has so many defenders. I remember being very active at StarTrek.com forums throughout the run of the show. Although it clearly improved with Coto at the helm during season 4, the reaction of Trek fans was overal about 85% negative.
The reviews were terrible. We debated them the same way that we debate the STO reviews here. One review during season 3 was so vitriolic, it caused Brannon Braga to interrupt a staff meeting, proclaiming that despite the bad press, he felft that it was damn good show!
There were just so many fan complaints about the theme song, the lackluster writing in the first two seasons, the wimpy captain, the snotty Vulcan, the crew with cardboard personality (especially Travis, gee golly I'm flying a space ship! to the timid and stereotypically terrified young Asian Hoshi) Everyone HATED the show.
In one thread that ran over 150 pages, the Trek fans put Berman and Braga on trial for killing Star Trek, mostly with Enterprise.
Maybe it's aging better with time. Instead of intelligent dialogue worthy of TOS, TNG, and DS9, fans have grown used to its dumbed-down TandA, Vulcan zombies in space, comet snowmen, and terrible humor (Tpol: Captain, I'm picking up biosigns. In the words of Dr. Frankenstein, it's Alive!)
I could continue to bash it all night, but I'll try to respect the fact that there are so many of you that actually like the show.
Nevertheless, it's still hard to believe that the Ent fans are not a minority, kind of like a Wesley Crusher fan club. (sorry, cheap shot).
I can tolerate references to Ent, since I love the references to prune juice (which casual fans probably don't get). But, I would still like to see Cryptic focus on what was popular and loved about the franchise.
The NX itself was also disappointing, it was like the shows producers just took the Akira and flipped it over.
If I'm not mistaken, the story behind that: Berman actually wanted to use something NASA-like, very primitive with only warp 1. It would explore our solar system and nearby systems, on long deep travels that involved human drama and the occasional first contact.
Paramount (or CBS) thought that was way too out-of-left field, so Berman basically just threw in the Akira, and said, "OK, is this what you want?"
The NX itself was also disappointing, it was like the shows producers just took the Akira and flipped it over.
I never had a problem with the design, except that it went against the history of design for ships named Enterprise. Despite all the classes Starfleet has had, Enterprise always retained a certain general shape-even to the Enterprise-J.
But the ship itself? No problem. The Akira came out and people were like, wtf? Now we know what it's designed was inspired by- another design concept that's been around since the beginnings of Starfleet.
Comments
2. The Enterprise-J, from the same series, scored quite high.
3. Who says it's all or nothing? A few Xindi races are already made.
4. That's a plotline that this game could pickup. Especially since the main villain had no actor likeness attached to it.
(Also, your reason #3 is wrong. The Xindi only had 6 species, one of which was extinct by the time of ENT. So, it would be 5, not 7.)
And, on a personal note, I love the ENT series. I'm sure others do as well.
Look, Ma, I'ma postin' in a Kirkfat thread!! \o/
"Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations"
Also, anecdotal evidence is not compelling evidence.
1) Enterprise had stronger characterizations and a broader emotional palette in its first Season compared to all other Star Trek series. Subjective but, then again, many of of the OP was.
2) The NX will be profitable. It has Star Trek on it. Star Trek fans generally don't know the meaning of "indulgence."
3) Xindi would open the door for lots of non-bipedal species and give us a chance to have the tech ready for difficult-but-lesser-known species that are "more beloved" (the most subjective criteria ever). It also allows the developers to come up with species that Star Trek was never able to do on the show (due to budget constraints).
4) Enterprise had some great storylines - even if the Cold War eventually felt hokey (it could've been far more interesting). The show had numerous episodes that were more emotionally layered and refused to deify the crew. Subjective but just as much as the OP's assertions.
there are 5 xindi species, not 7 and the aquatics are probably not going to happen any time soon because of their look so its more like 4.
viewing figures were lower than other shows but this is in part because of the trend in viewing figures for all tv shows. the increase in illegal downloads, the new tech to be able to watch one program whilst tapping another (i think its tivo in America, sky + in the UK), and the continual increase in channels means that viewing figures have been dropping for a long time. reviews were also fairly favourable and were hardly terrible as the op would have us think.
there have been several others sc-fi shows that had worse viewing figures that were considered much better that have either survived or been axed so i don't believe the name star trek was the only thing holding it together.
even though ENT is my least favourite of the shows, that does not mean i don't enjoy it or want to see the xindi or the sphere builders or future guy. the show may not have been my ideal cup of tea but i still enjoyed the visual aspects of it.
personally whilst the op thinks its better for all that they ignore it, it sounds like its just better for him.
U P N
To make it worse: Arrested Development was canceled after 53 episodes (by the same network).
Enterprise was canceled after 98 episodes on a tiny network that was canceled.
So true.
1) Enterprise came out at the end of decades of Star Trek on a network that was failing with management that changed its time slot every month.
2) You would have been amazed with some of the stories planned for Season 5. (Tpol being half romulan, space kittehs, refit of the NX-01, etc.)
3) Enterprise lasted a season longer than the TOS.
4) They actually had a model for the refit of the NX-01 for season 5. (going to be in some calendar this coming year.)
5) It will sell.
6) It was the only Star Trek series I watched every single episode of every week it came out and I enjoyed the more human and exploration facet of it over the other series and I consider it my favorite Trek show.
I really, really wanted to see them make a season 5. Sadly I never saw ENT when it ran. I simply did not have a television during that period of my life.
Personally, once this game is more stabilized, I'd like to see the Iconians get involved in the TCW and devote maybe one season of STO content to fleshing out S5 of Enterprise, giving that series some closure.
The downside is, I doubt we'd see the likeness and voice assets that would be needed to make that happen.
actually they only broadcast 12 of the episodes of Firefly, and not in any particular order. The last 2 episodes only saw life on DVD.
I loved Firefly. Fox execs should have their asses removed after the general population has broke them in.
I had read that there was talk of making Shran (my favorite ENT character) a member of the crew and of season 5 hinting at the start of the Earth-Romulan war, something I've always wanted to see in a series.
Eh... they never intended to give Firefly a chance. They didn't want a show like it. The only reason they went as far as they did with it was because they had a 3-series contract with Whedon. They probably ran it just long enough to say "we tried!".
I was curious if they could get Jeffrey Combs to play more than four characters in an episode....
Amongst other things, it featured Andorians and Tellarites (two of the Federation's founding races). And Orions. And even a Gorn.
And preferably not done as a holodeck episode featuring Riker and Troi. That last episode was symbolic of the one major flaw in the show: The producers seemed almost as if they were afraid to let it stand on it's own.
I do admit not everything was roses in that series. For example, I thought the Temporal Cold War was overdone and was glad to see it end with a whimper - everything they wanted to bring about via story hooks could've been done differently than by the use of time travel; I'm really not fond of time travel and ENT's approach to that was not one of its stronger points.
But then again, pretty much all the Trek series have shown weak points anyhow so I found it a forgiveable flaw. Or perhaps I'm just easily pleased.
Regardless, I'd consider it a poor choice to deprive some people of having something come in-game that they'd like because another crowd was elitistic on thier opinion of the subject matter. For example, I disliked Deep Space Nine to the point of considering it the weakest, less enjoyable Trek series - because of that, I could deem that Bajor, DS9, the many alien races tied to that plot and that horrid looking Defiant should all not be in STO.
It's my opinion. I really dislike DS9 and I think it made few good contributions to the Trek universe. But should my opinion deprive you of the thing you liked in it and the proper portrayal of that universe? What's more - will the inclusion of those truly brim my enjoyment of Star Trek Online?
Probably not. The only annoyance I have to put up with today is seeing the Defiant escorts as superior to the Akira-class starships, and even though it still baffles me I can live with it.
On the other side of that coin, I do consider that Enterprise-inspired content (such as the upcoming Andorian and Vulcan ships) would be neat additions to the game.
I agree. I think Voyager is what killed Star Trek. There was no real drama to it. It was like "How are they going to re-route power to save the ship this week. Watch them get out of some unknown, unimaginable trouble by chanting a few phrases of technobabble and pressing a few buttons. Tune in and see what new use they have for the deflector dish this week!"
Bah, I say. Bah! Give me Kirk in a torn shirt making a cannon out of bamboo to shoot a giant rubber lizard with a visible zipper, any day of the week. Or Archer just brazening his way through a situation by the seat of his pants. That's drama.
I think it was the woman captain...;)
*ducks as things fly toward him*
Maybe if the woman Captain got her shirt tron a little more often....:D
The saddest thing is that I now believe the series was cancelled just as it was about to get interesting again.
In terms of STO, I do not really care for the ship - but I have high hopes that my Fed will finally get pants and boots that fit to each other just as much as they might fit to the TNG movie top. Somehow this top only seems to work with the TNG movie pants, but there's no way to combine them with boots. So... give me these uniform parts already!
Definitely. I loved seasons 3 and 4, save the odd episode/storyline (like The Forge TRIBBLE.. necessary evil, I suppose).
Now I will say something very unpopular around here ' I like Voyager and loved Janeway'
Now something else unpopular it seems, I never liked Enterprise. In the beginning it was trying much too hard to get away from associating itself with the ST name. I found it incredibly dull to be honest, and I don't agree it has alot in common with TOS. Unlike with ALL the other series, I never looked forward to watching it each week. I do think though, that in it's last season it was starting to find it's feet and improved significantly. Unfortunately, by then it was too late and it was dropped.
The NX itself was also disappointing, it was like the shows producers just took the Akira and flipped it over.
The reviews were terrible. We debated them the same way that we debate the STO reviews here. One review during season 3 was so vitriolic, it caused Brannon Braga to interrupt a staff meeting, proclaiming that despite the bad press, he felft that it was damn good show!
There were just so many fan complaints about the theme song, the lackluster writing in the first two seasons, the wimpy captain, the snotty Vulcan, the crew with cardboard personality (especially Travis, gee golly I'm flying a space ship! to the timid and stereotypically terrified young Asian Hoshi) Everyone HATED the show.
In one thread that ran over 150 pages, the Trek fans put Berman and Braga on trial for killing Star Trek, mostly with Enterprise.
Maybe it's aging better with time. Instead of intelligent dialogue worthy of TOS, TNG, and DS9, fans have grown used to its dumbed-down TandA, Vulcan zombies in space, comet snowmen, and terrible humor (Tpol: Captain, I'm picking up biosigns. In the words of Dr. Frankenstein, it's Alive!)
I could continue to bash it all night, but I'll try to respect the fact that there are so many of you that actually like the show.
Nevertheless, it's still hard to believe that the Ent fans are not a minority, kind of like a Wesley Crusher fan club. (sorry, cheap shot).
I can tolerate references to Ent, since I love the references to prune juice (which casual fans probably don't get). But, I would still like to see Cryptic focus on what was popular and loved about the franchise.
If I'm not mistaken, the story behind that: Berman actually wanted to use something NASA-like, very primitive with only warp 1. It would explore our solar system and nearby systems, on long deep travels that involved human drama and the occasional first contact.
Paramount (or CBS) thought that was way too out-of-left field, so Berman basically just threw in the Akira, and said, "OK, is this what you want?"
The first idea could have been so cool.
I never had a problem with the design, except that it went against the history of design for ships named Enterprise. Despite all the classes Starfleet has had, Enterprise always retained a certain general shape-even to the Enterprise-J.
But the ship itself? No problem. The Akira came out and people were like, wtf? Now we know what it's designed was inspired by- another design concept that's been around since the beginnings of Starfleet.