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PVP: Who REALLY cares?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited August 2010 in PvP Gameplay
This game has come along way and passed through many stages. There was the initialpoint where feds were so afraid of VM they would tell me "hey we already know whats going to happen and dont want to even bother trying"

If you have that attitude I dont want your help with this proposal and I dont want to see you at all in the game or anywhere.

We have since been inundated with several waves of crushingnerfs and mechanics alterations, buti n my mind pvp is alive and well and as fun if not more fun than it ever was. The moral of the story and the purpose of this post is that we need to WORK together and improve OUR game to improve the game.

So lets hear it.. is anyone out there anymore. Do you have a thirst for fulfilling engaging difficult and challenging pvp combat!? Do you seek out the hardest enemies to match your wits and skills against. DO YOU FEAR NOT DEATH (in a game with no penalty of dying...)?

I already know many peoplei n the game who have the appropriate attitude that has lost its popularity. Basically we need people who give a ****. Who arent in it for epeen glory or ego stroke or to proclaim their fleet as the best. We need people who are willing to put the time in and help to organize the many fleets, characters, and individual players capable of enhancing pvp for everyone. The better everyone gets in terms of understanding game mechanics and battle experience, the higher quality of pvp for all.

Thus in this vein I ask to all of you who is here to put the time in to make things happen? clearly you are already in the game, the many fleet leaders who have been or are still in the OrganizedPVP chat and PremadePVP chat channel, who regulary use these fine tools to help their fleets (and enemies) to glorious battle. But I am certin many people enjoy high quality pvp and have yet to pass thru these circles or have came and left out of anger or frustration. So the question is: WE WANT BETTER PVP, WHO HERE IS WILLING TO HELP MAKE THAT HAPPEN!?

<S>
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I care WHEN i can finally enter a freaking game...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Thorgald wrote: »
    I care WHEN i can finally enter a freaking game...

    well friend i can help you find games on your own valition, as that is the idea. no player who seeks high game combat should have to wait if you ask me. i am sure there are people in the game right now, teams or single individuals, who would be happy to engage you.

    stay positive and think outside the q box
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mini, I understand the point of the thread and there are many PvP icons of this game who are still around and still compete. But the reality is when someone asks the question "who is willing to make PvP better" or "who is willing to work to improve PvP" the very first people to raise their hands should be Cryptic. As long as Cryptic continues to cater to average players, PvE "Captain Kirk's," and role-players because they pay their monthlies on a far greater numerical scale than do hardcore PvP'ers the PvP gameplay in STO will have major issues. As long as Cryptic continues to prove they have no idea how to create or maintain a functional queue system, the PvP gameplay in STO will have issues. As long as Cryptic continues to "dumb down" the game and insist on a standard of play set by the lowest common denominator, the PvP gameplay in STO will have issues.

    I'm all for better PvP...the problem is it's easier to consistently find it elsewhere. If I spend ten hours in queue for every ten minutes of gameplay, something is drastically wrong. I only enjoy PvP in this game. Once that is utterly destroyed by Cryptic what is left for my monthly subscription and support of these gentleman's paychecks? For all the enjoyment I get out of STO's horrendous PvP system in its current state, I'd be better off wrapping a $5 and a $10 bill around my d!ck and jerking off...it'd feel better, I wouldn't have to sit around in queue for hours waiting for it to happen, and I'm guaranteed a smile on my face after (lotion not included...500 C-Store points required). ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Great reply Bounty,


    And I agree the first person who should have there hand up is CRYPTIC they are the designers,

    But Im willing to help out in any way I can because PvP is the only thing I do on STO now Im strictly
    playing my Klingon and thats all we have so anything that makes it better is better for me.

    I pay my monthly sub like everyone else and since they made the klingons a "PvP Faction" then I
    think PvP should get just as much attention as PvE content.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    While it may not be their highest priority and they may be slow to act, I for one choose to stay positive and hope for the best and look at the bright side. Even ifwe are the forgotten dogs of the game, we should not bite the hand of those who offer us proverbial table scraps. One HUGE improvement is the functionality of the private q system for any player number. That alone gives me personal satisfaction beyond the whole of "klingon content" added from day 1.

    But thats just me I am easy to please and do not need the entire game to be dedicated to my favorite part of it. And I further insist that those who believe the game will "do the work for them" are sorely mistaken. Seeking out a hard road and exceptional pvp combat experience is not for the faint of heart. The point is this: there are people willing to help and make up for what cryptic has failed (so far) to provide. The point is not to be mad and flame, but instead to work with what we have and strive to help create a better world of our own manifestation.

    We can have our own q. We can have our own gamespy "chat" lobby. We can arrange tournaments. And imho we better because we all know what happens when you let someone else to your job, you get inferior products up to someone elses standards.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    i really care.
    i miss the good ole days.
    better ones around the corner-we hope.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    It's gotten to the point where we (7th Core) almost don't bother to ask in PremadePvP if there's any premades on. We rarely get a response, not even a "sorry, we've only got four guys on". I think our best bet is with more organized PvP tourneys.

    Edit: (it's late, forgot to add this) Part of the reason probably is that we're all on late. A bunch of our guys are west coast so we tend to get the most people on around 10 EST.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Avatar_Ko wrote:
    It's gotten to the point where we (7th Core) almost don't bother to ask in PremadePvP if there's any premades on. We rarely get a response, not even a "sorry, we've only got four guys on". I think our best bet is with more organized PvP tourneys.

    im working on a solution to this serious problem at this exact moment. stay tuned
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Avatar_Ko wrote:
    It's gotten to the point where we (7th Core) almost don't bother to ask in PremadePvP if there's any premades on. We rarely get a response, not even a "sorry, we've only got four guys on". I think our best bet is with more organized PvP tourneys.

    Edit: (it's late, forgot to add this) Part of the reason probably is that we're all on late. A bunch of our guys are west coast so we tend to get the most people on around 10 EST.

    you guys do ground or space? last couple night us Lt Gen CHC guys have had a team of 6 looking for ground around 10est, but the only groups we went against were pugs i think. most of the CHC guys are on earlier too, that's towards the end of the night, but if you're interested look us up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    you guys do ground or space? last couple night us Lt Gen CHC guys have had a team of 6 looking for ground around 10est, but the only groups we went against were pugs i think. most of the CHC guys are on earlier too, that's towards the end of the night, but if you're interested look us up.

    7th Core's focus is space combat. As it is right now most people seem to be leveling their toons and collecting emblems. It's made for some really boring nights lately on the pvp front. But once everyone is loaded up with the new gear it will go back to normal. Minimax is starting a new channel that may help out but for now it's going to be pug time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I care.
    I care because I find great enjoyment in tasking myself to combat against a "thinking" opponent as oppossed to the less-than-challenging AI of PvE.
    I may suck at pvp at times, but win-lose-draw, I still want to have fun.

    BountyXP wrote: »
    For all the enjoyment I get out of STO's horrendous PvP system in its current state, I'd be better off wrapping a $5 and a $10 bill around my d!ck and jerking off...it'd feel better, I wouldn't have to sit around in queue for hours waiting for it to happen, and I'm guaranteed a smile on my face after (lotion not included...500 C-Store points required). ;)
    Sigh-lol. Another image permantly burned into my memory - thanks Bounty! :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    I care.
    I care because I find great enjoyment in tasking myself to combat against a "thinking" opponent as oppossed to the less-than-challenging AI of PvE.
    I may suck at pvp at times, but win-lose-draw, I still want to have fun.

    Welp youre in luck because the new OPVP channel is for people just liek you (us) who may not have a solid full 5 man team at every moment but are still interested in PVP. The idea is a place for fleets to send available interested pvpers to form up with eachother in the aim of a better battle. Give it time the solutions are coming, whther the pvp q fix takes this weekend, or not. WE WILL HAVE OUR PVP!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I care about the Space PVP. Because it's more fun then doing Explorations, or the occational STF (Haven't done one in probobly 2+ months actually)

    And I'm also hoping that in a Year from now I can look back on my thoughts of the good old days and remember when bounty was giving everyone images that we didn't want, but were probobly more fun then the broken queue system.. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Hey I love pvp...ESPECIALLY Ground PVP.

    I made a KDF Alien last week, my little "Ka'Zol" and I've been tearing up the lt., and lt.c ranks in ground-pvp (and space, but I'll take ground over space ANY DAY - though I do still like space PVP as well)

    While I'm at it though, I'd like to express why I think Ground PVP makes more sense from an RP perspective then Space PVP:

    The Space PvP Arena zones are basically a little bubble of space that we fight over, and its surrounded by trans-warp conduits...it just aesthetically doesn't make any sense. Seriously, the zones all look a little contorted with the conduits. Sure, they're spawn points - and thats cool cause you gotta respawn - but they dont need the big ugly conduits all over the place.

    Ground-PVP makes sense because both teams show up to check on "whatever" and fight over the area. That i can dig. And there's nothing cooler then sneaking up behind someone, buffing up crazy, and two shotting them to tears.

    However: Both of these systems would work so much better if they were open world pvp. For example, the federali's are doing their patrol missions - and who shows up? The KDF to stop them. I know, it would cause many people to cry in grief...

    But sometimes the tears are all I need. =)

    Anyway, in conclusion - as long as the Que's work, I totally dig PVP. I do it all day long if I can get in. Nothing sucks more then the Que's getting all ***ored and not permitting engagement. That gives me tears.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    you guys do ground or space? last couple night us Lt Gen CHC guys have had a team of 6 looking for ground around 10est, but the only groups we went against were pugs i think. most of the CHC guys are on earlier too, that's towards the end of the night, but if you're interested look us up.

    Many of us log early since pvp seems dead.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Hmm.. This might get a little longwinded, but what the hell...

    The main problem as I see it, is not ONE issue, but rather several small issues, that combined is killing PvP.

    Split of players:

    Private matches, premade channels, "PvP fleets" that wont play without their regular teammates versus Casual PUGs - For every time someone have a "set of circumstances" that they want fulfilled, before they play - You lose a few matches/players.. If the population is split in two (private premade / Open PUG) you take a allready relatively small PvP population and split it in two: Both sides miss out on the games.

    I know this probably wont sit well with the "elite" PvPers (of which I am definately not - Im a pretty decent PvPer, but hardly "elite") Premades/private matches should be limited to organized tournaments, daily PvP should *not* be based on premade groups - the people that normally do premades, should suck up to the casuals - group with them, PvP with them.


    Mindset of players:

    Premade oriented Min-max'ers - Casual PvPers - "fake" PvPers (the ones that just enter the game to get their tokens/money as fast as possible - unshielded ships, Danubes and players that park for free kills)

    The "fakes" are easily dealt with - Stop or severly limit payouts for players with little or no score - If they need X score, they will have to play, or find alternate sources of income. win/win

    Allready touched the problem with premade/min-max'ers and casuals - Stop making premades or private games, it isnt helping the PvP activity, possibly disable premade groups entirely outside Cryptic endorced/hosted events/tournys. 5 premade groups of 3-4 players in a que wont get any games started.


    Abusive players:

    The ones that verbally attacks/flames other players - Ive seen everything from entire premade groups to individual good players in a PUG - to crappy players teaming with good PvPers, be abusive in a match.. These people should be excluded whenever possible - Dont team with them, dont support them, if you find yourself in a game with a known group of them, leave the match (the minimum score needed for payout, will make this a waste as much for them as for the leaving players) It *should* minimize these insidents.


    Help them help yourself:

    Every decent+ PvP player are interested in a good match.. If you find yourself in a game with an obvious newbie - Help them, ask to their loadout/BO setup - If they improve, the overall PvP experience improves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    lol

    yes excluding players is a good way to have more players

    lol

    and then the select can all play like we "should" play.

    lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    attacko wrote:
    lol

    yes excluding players is a good way to have more players

    lol

    and then the select can all play like we "should" play.

    lol

    You know.. Those 'lol's make you look like a schoolgirl sms'ing :p

    The point was that abusive players will often discourage other players.

    Example:

    Newbie Joe enters his first PvP match, he is slaughtered - From the beginning of the match to the end all he reads in chat is "LOL U SUCK NUB LOL LOL LOL" or stuff to that effect.. While this doesnt bother all people, it does bother some.

    If instead another player told him "You know, I notice that you use 4 different beam weapons - Its better to stick to one, and skill that" or "Your Exploration Cruiser seems to die far faster than normal, what kinda shield and BOff Skills are you using?" they would most likely be encouraged and try this out, possibly becoming a regular PvPer.

    Sacrificing 2 moronic players and gaining 5 new is a good trade imo.

    And who knows, those abusive players might learn that being an TRIBBLE isnt going to help them much :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    "You know.. Those 'lol's make you look like a schoolgirl sms'ing

    The point was that abusive players will often discourage other players
    ."

    lol

    irony

    the argeument that people will not play player vs player matches because some one swore is flimsy at best, and lol at worst
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    lol i´m all for it... make PvP PuG only :D
    no grouping possible. yay!
    you wanna play with your friends, nah thats bad for the game.
    use teamwork? nah thats abusive and OP.
    stop grouping in PvP...
    go PuG, but don´t group! help the game. stop staying close to healers cause they will heal you...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    attacko wrote:
    "You know.. Those 'lol's make you look like a schoolgirl sms'ing

    The point was that abusive players will often discourage other players
    ."

    lol

    irony

    the argeument that people will not play player vs player matches because some one swore is flimsy at best, and lol at worst

    Im not talking about someone overreacting.. Happens to all of us.. Im talking about the ones that go out of their way to bash their opponents verbally .. Match after match after match..

    I was in a good T4 PUG the other day, we had 4 good players and this one that didnt really contribute (5-7 matches in this group - he averaged at maybe 30-40k damage and the same in heals) the 4 good players carried him through and he was the one that constantly brainfarted in zone.. He was asked to stop it in team several times, yet he persisted.. When the 4 people in his group is fed up with him after a couple of matches, how do you think the Feds react?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kellfxxx wrote:
    lol i´m all for it... make PvP PuG only :D
    no grouping possible. yay!
    you wanna play with your friends, nah thats bad for the game.
    use teamwork? nah thats abusive and OP.
    stop grouping in PvP...
    go PuG, but don´t group! help the game. stop staying close to healers cause they will heal you...

    As long as the PvP activity isnt very high, splitting the population in two is bad..

    Rolling with your ubxor premade team of min-max'ers against a PUG of newbies cant really make for very interesting matches now, can it?

    Thats all Im saying.

    I get that you like to play with your friends (heh, sounded wrong, no offense) - Maybe a compromize: Teams are allowed, but if ques are messed up (like 5 teams of 3 players, each waiting on 2 PUs) split a team if needed, to fill another..

    Would that work?


    *note* I knew this wouldnt fly with certain players :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    i actually get what your saying, and alot of it is true, i can also kind of understand the argument.
    but on the ohterhand it would be as vialbe to say that PuGs are bad for the game because they don´t group or put up a bad fight, which is not challengeing and fun at all. so in the long run good premades will leave the game (most have taken a break anyway or left), which will just leave bad quality PvP left, which noone will enjoy. and that will ultimately well repeat itself until the pvp part of the game is dead. :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I don´t play pvp at all. Maybe i would if the system in STO wouldn´t suck. For all those hardcore pvp fans, i wish that the issues get resolved and they can blow up each other and have fun doing so. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    the thing people need to understand about PvP is that as long as you don´t have any kind of ranking system that matches you up with equal opponents, you will always meet "hardcore" PvPers, who will destroy you leaving you very little chances. that can be frustrating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    kellfxxx wrote:
    i actually get what your saying, and alot of it is true, i can also kind of understand the argument.
    but on the ohterhand it would be as vialbe to say that PuGs are bad for the game because they don´t group or put up a bad fight, which is not challengeing and fun at all. so in the long run good premades will leave the game (most have taken a break anyway or left), which will just leave bad quality PvP left, which noone will enjoy. and that will ultimately well repeat itself until the pvp part of the game is dead. :(

    Putting up a bad fight is where the friendly suggestions (replacing the "LOL NUB" comments) regarding loadouts will help...

    To quote someone : "Being unsuccessful is not the same as failure, giving up is what makes it permanent"

    Will a little help, they might not "give up", and the PvP population will rise.

    Autogrouping teams in PvP matches will help, and when the newer players practice they will get better.. A lot of them needs encouragement and help though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Putting up a bad fight is where the friendly suggestions (replacing the "LOL NUB" comments) regarding loadouts will help...

    To quote someone : "Being unsuccessful is not the same as failure, giving up is what makes it permanent"

    Will a little help, they might not "give up", and the PvP population will rise.

    Autogrouping teams in PvP matches will help, and when the newer players practice they will get better.. A lot of them needs encouragement and help though.

    i´d agree with you, if just anyone would ever ask for help it would help.:D
    but the general reaction of players losing to a premade is not: help us plz!
    it´s more: leave you asses, you team up that´s unfair.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I've only recently (as in this week) tried to get into some PvP. My fed character is now Captain 1 and I thought I'd better get some PvP practise in before hitting RA on the grounds that if I entered PvP at RA level as a Noob, I'd get beaten comprehensively.

    First problem I've had is the broken PvP queuing system which means that half the time I get an error trying to start the match ("you are not in the queue" or "not enough people accepted the match" - why queue up if you are not going to accept the match when its available?). This leaves you wondering if it is going to be worth the bother and whether its not easier just to go back and do PVE.

    Have only actually made it into a few matches but made a point of inviting all the players I could see into a team right at the start, so that I could find them easier. We won the first match and I was pleased to see I was 3rd on damage dealt and 1st on healing for my team. Lost the next one - the Klingons definitely seemed better organised and I know I got distracted trying to kill one target rather than picking the best target at that particular moment or helping my team (I'm an engineer in a cruiser). Seemed a reasonably close fight though and I will be back for more.

    Did notice there was zero team chat during the matches I was in, gets a bit hectic and don't necessarily have time to type mid battle, so would think a premade using vent would have a huge advantage over a PUG.

    With the limited numbers available to PvP at the moment, anything that splits them up further has got to be questionable but some form of ranking so that as a newbie, you can be reasonably assured that you are not going to meet some Uber killer in your first match has got to be worth looking at in future.

    Have tried and failed three evenings in a row to get my LT Klingon into a PvP match. The last time, was looking good as I got the loading screen to transfer maps ready to start, only to find myself suddenly standing in the Great Hall of Qo'nos (I'd been in an explore mission elsewhere when I accepted the match - can I call a cab to take me to my ship please!). Strangely, when trying to /bug that one, I got disconnected from the server three times in a row when clicking the "submit" button on the bug report screen. One way to keep the number of new bug reports down, or perhaps Cryptic's bug database is full!

    So there are some of us trying to get into PvP but Cryptic isn't making it easy and I can see a lot of the less persistent people giving up on PvP altogether.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    EmoeJoe wrote:
    This game has come along way and passed through many stages. There was the initialpoint where feds were so afraid of VM they would tell me "hey we already know whats going to happen and dont want to even bother trying"

    If you have that attitude I dont want your help with this proposal and I dont want to see you at all in the game or anywhere.

    We have since been inundated with several waves of crushingnerfs and mechanics alterations, buti n my mind pvp is alive and well and as fun if not more fun than it ever was. The moral of the story and the purpose of this post is that we need to WORK together and improve OUR game to improve the game.

    So lets hear it.. is anyone out there anymore. Do you have a thirst for fulfilling engaging difficult and challenging pvp combat!? Do you seek out the hardest enemies to match your wits and skills against. DO YOU FEAR NOT DEATH (in a game with no penalty of dying...)?

    I already know many peoplei n the game who have the appropriate attitude that has lost its popularity. Basically we need people who give a ****. Who arent in it for epeen glory or ego stroke or to proclaim their fleet as the best. We need people who are willing to put the time in and help to organize the many fleets, characters, and individual players capable of enhancing pvp for everyone. The better everyone gets in terms of understanding game mechanics and battle experience, the higher quality of pvp for all.

    Thus in this vein I ask to all of you who is here to put the time in to make things happen? clearly you are already in the game, the many fleet leaders who have been or are still in the OrganizedPVP chat and PremadePVP chat channel, who regulary use these fine tools to help their fleets (and enemies) to glorious battle. But I am certin many people enjoy high quality pvp and have yet to pass thru these circles or have came and left out of anger or frustration. So the question is: WE WANT BETTER PVP, WHO HERE IS WILLING TO HELP MAKE THAT HAPPEN!?

    <S>
    Look

    :rolleyes:I have played pvp first person shooters since Doom, Nam, and Duke Nuke 3d. I was the 1997 Gencon Doom chanp with 97 kills in 30min, I earned the name Grimreaper after I peg 23 guys with a bolt action rifle with 64k modem ping of 632 in the original Day of Defeat. I came back and joined Goblin Army moved quickly up the ranks before they disbanded. I have played Star Fleet Command 1,2, Orion Pirate, and STC 3, I have over 16 years of PVP experiance. I also retired do to key board hand cramps. were talking long before mouse and keyboard combat or little game pad joy sticks.

    That being said its a bad queu system! Its a bad PVP system! :cool:Can it be fixed sure!

    I can see them buying Lcar from Activison, and revamping ground into a First person shooter or a old Quake engion sure. Changes need to be made. It really needs its own dedicated server away from the main game. Half-Life, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat seperate PVP hubs. Right now PVP is more of a added extra.

    Its like we have this main game, and oh buy the way if you want to duke it out thats great. Will give you both pizza. Why Day of Defeat, There no super sheilds, no super power ups, its just you vs. me and a set of flags that need to be captured.

    I am also a trekie!

    If you want your PVP fix while its down the Karat system has been under blockade by Klingons hope to see you there.

    Watch Doom the movie Grims tired washed up comes out for one more Ho Ra. Everyone dies except for him.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I'll care when it has a purpose

    I'll care when its not queued

    I'll care when its more expansive

    I'll care when it has a strategic component, allowing interdiction/supply raids on NPC logistics(NPC transports and staging areas/hubs as stationary and mobile instances) that Feds can defend/escort.
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