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My Analysis of VA PVP (Broken Que Not Included))

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited August 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Alright where to start. I have played a total of 6 matches FvK since hitting VA, and theres things Ive noticed that may or may not be good.

Feds dont seem to have a clue what they are doing, that could be attributed to any of the following
  1. Not knowing how to fly their new ships if they so chose to get a new one.
  2. Just general not giving a damn and wanting to get the match over with.
  3. actually...thats all I got...

I am saying this from a perspective that has both klingon and federation experience. The federation after so much whining and complaining finally have cloak, yet they dont have a clue what to do with it it seems. As someone who has played both sides from the get go I feel at less of a disadvantage as far as learning curve. I fly a raptor klingon side, and the defiant is very similar, yet it handles differently and is a little more squishy.

The other thing I notice is the klingons tend to move in groups of more then 1 person, cept those who know what they are doing such as engineers in battle crusiers. Where as the feds seem to zerg like theres no tomorrow, never gaining any ground, never accomplishing anything other then giving the klingons another kill. Sure, the feds do get the occasional kill, but if its a map with objectives other then killing it matters not if they got that kill.

One other thing I've learned when watching the feds is that you cant tell them how to do something, they dont listen. They think they are the king/drag queen of the proverbial hill and that what they are doing is right as far as tactics and getting things done. Dont get me wrong, the klingons have these people too, but in far less quantity because its more difficult to level a klingon then a fed.

Solution? I really dont have any honestly. Like many have said before me this is the internet, trying to enter logic into a conversation is like talking to a wall. I honestly wish this were different, but alas its not.

Just my two bars of latinum.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Speaking as a Fed in a refit escort yes it is taking some time to figure the new ship out. I feel that I drove my Advanced escort very well and even my T4 tac escort in cap and holds but the refit is a whole new animal. I am not very good in it yet but after seeing Vlad do it right this morning in a cap and hold I do believe that there is hope for the refit and for the Feds as we get use to these new shiny ships.

    For me I use to be pretty good about situational awareness, staying close to my healers but the squishiness of the refit has me running away to cloak a lot more than I should. Some of the new abilities and changes to some old ones have my timing a little messed up as well.

    Also with the way the que system is I think we are all happy just to get in and make some noise like every map is an arena even if it's a cap and hold.

    Just my opinion :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    A voice from the Fed side of the queue:

    1) Some players are blocking team invites...
    2) Some/same people go rushing in getting repeatedly killed, meke the rest say "wtf, no point of going for the win, i'm just gonna mess around too.
    3)Capture and Hold is COMPLETELY MESSED UP because of the daylies. No point even trying to win. Some people don't have a clue, and a lot of people just hide and wait it out... saying "don't mind me, i'm just here for the emblems"...
    4) Premade groups exploiting weaknesses in the game coding are scaring off new players. (fed and KDF)

    my 2 slips of latinum....

    PS: ALL Fed players don't suck, but when you see someone pulling the wrong way, you tend to give up. I've had the same player rush past me and getting killed twice before the rest of the team had even reached the enemy... makes the rest of the team give up. If you are not only one person short, but if that one also keeps slamming easy kills at the other team, you have lost before starting...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I find it sad that I actually have to tell the Defiant refits on our team to scout the enemy when the match starts.
    It's also funny when they cloak and yet they stay right next to you in the fed-ball.
    I think they use the cloak too defensively and not offensively, they seem to think it's only there to protect them when they're moving around.
    Escorts with cloak SHOULD use cloak for;
    Telling the team what ships the enemy is flying before the fighting starts
    Attacking from a different direction then the tanks so now the other team's escorts aren't facing towards the main DPS dealers

    Science vessels with armor SHOULD (most likely) use it for;
    The front lines. The enemy team will buff up to attack (alpha strike) and the Science ship (being the only one in range) will activate armor, making their alpha strike wasted as the others hand back just out of range.

    And for the Cruisers, remember to use separation wisely, Picard did.

    As for my opinion, I'm never giving up my Advanced Escort.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Bungle wrote:
    For me I use to be pretty good about situational awareness, staying close to my healers but the squishiness of the refit has me running away to cloak a lot more than I should. Some of the new abilities and changes to some old ones have my timing a little messed up as well.

    Also with the way the que system is I think we are all happy just to get in and make some noise like every map is an arena even if it's a cap and hold.

    Just my opinion :D

    Im sorry i gotta love that statement omg man what planet you living on its got the same BOFF slots as a raptor has higher hull / shields & most will say the raptor is the hardest hitting KDF ship.
    & omg the turnrate on it is a **** to track down (from a kling view point)
    so unless your a beam boat you got a very hard fight on your hands to keep track of it.

    I have to say though if i was gonna put any officer in the refit defiant id have to go with an engineer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I am kind of disgusted with the public pvp queues as well. In capture and hold everyone just seems to go there own way or try to take out as many of the other team as possible (no this is not the objective) and ignore the capture points completely.

    I just kind of chalk it up to lack of orginization, sucking, just not giving a TRIBBLE, or not knowing how the objectives of the map work... although that should be pretty obvious.

    Point being is klingons are a hell of a lot more organized and seem to work together a lot better than federation pugs..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    When you see half your team full impulse towards the Nebula in Salvage Operations every time the game starts, you know you're flying with idiots.

    The problem with Capture and Hold is that win or lose, the results doesn't matter. When presented with this situation, you'll find a lot of players doing some very detrimental things to the team effort just because there isn't any risk to them. It's not a risk to their time, TRIBBLE all the others or what the objectives of the map is because they don't matter. As long as they zerg the Nebula, blow up the few ADHD Klinks/Feds that also zips in and they can continue to bask in the illusion that they're AWESOME KILLERS.

    Sadly when the off chance comes when the daily isn't capture and hold, and they discover that they're getting mutilated in arena because they don't have 7 players gunning down 1 or 2 enemies, they assume that things are unbalanced. That's when they start coming to the forums and complain about how things aren't fair.

    I don't know about you guys, but I really think Capture and Hold dailies as it is right now presents a major problem to the STO community. It might not be the root of all that's wrong with the mentality of the community, but it definitely plays a big part in it.

    We really to have Capture and Hold only give credit if you win. Yes, this will take a lot of time as players starts to shape up. I know I sure as hell won't be able to get some of my dailies done if this changes goes into place, but frankly I'm willing to endure the community adapting to the learning curve needed to win and actually play like a team. It'd make for a better game. Sacrifices should be made for the betterment of the community.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    BBzMadDog wrote: »
    Im sorry i gotta love that statement omg man what planet you living on its got the same BOFF slots as a raptor has higher hull / shields & most will say the raptor is the hardest hitting KDF ship.
    & omg the turnrate on it is a **** to track down (from a kling view point)
    so unless your a beam boat you got a very hard fight on your hands to keep track of it.

    I have to say though if i was gonna put any officer in the refit defiant id have to go with an engineer.

    Ok let me retort. When flying mt Advanced escort i HAD to stay in the fight and heal myself or hopefully have support to keep me killing longer. The cloak is new to me and I am still figuring out how to use it effectively after the first close range strike. I am as you pointed out learning that it is not a squishy as I first thought. Sure running was always an option in the Advanced but I tended to stay in the fight and tank it out while doing as much dps as I could before going pop.

    I've never rolled a Raptor and I live on Earth.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    PVP as whole is broken, especial at VA. The medals xp and merits you get are useless, so there is no motivation to even seriously pvp.

    I have given up taking pvp serious after 1.2. I just farm for emblems now, I can't be bothered anymore to put up a fight and everything that takes longer then 10min is a waste of time... I go afk after that. Hate me, blame me whatever but I don't see a point at all in PVP. Without the emblems/marks I wouldn't have touched PVP for a long time.

    It also doesn't matter if you do C&H or TDM. The reward is meaninglessm you get the same rewared regardless if you win or lose. The only thing that matters is how much damage and healing you do, thats how xp is awarded. At VA level not even that matters anymore cause you can't get any more xp anyway.

    C&H right now is nothing more then a time limited TDM. As long as they don't reward capturing or defending points people always will go for dmg, cause thats what you gain xp/credits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    This is the third thread in the same vein I've seen in as many days pointing out how "inexperienced" and "bad" players participating are.

    Yet...instead of providing insights and tips after the critique, they just cap it off.

    Like pointing out someones flaws is merely enough to make them improve. I'm not sure it's occured to anyone yet, but generally when you critique someone, it's kind of proper to provide advice on how to improve the faults you've pointed out.

    This happens through out any occupation or hobby you can name. No one just labels your problems and gives no words on how to help correct the issue.

    But I've seen it on this forums constantly. If your so befuddled with the state of things, try doing something different? Like...I don't know....posting your own guide on how you play? Novel idea right?

    If this community is wondering why so many players aren't playing to "standard" here how about standardizing the community and putting into print what you do, what you like to see?

    I can see.....1 guide for each faction regarding pvp. And both are pretty dated.

    Really? Thats it? you guys are content with that? No one else has anything better to add besides complaints?

    Good grief...and you folks wonder why the state of things are so bad. It's like you enjoy being miserable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    inum....

    PS: ALL Fed players don't suck, but when you see someone pulling the wrong way, you tend to give up. I've had the same player rush past me and getting killed twice before the rest of the team had even reached the enemy... makes the rest of the team give up. If you are not only one person short, but if that one also keeps slamming easy kills at the other team, you have lost before starting...

    This bit made me laugh, seeing as many feds WARP in to a fight with there power lvls low ..... and they wonder why the get killed so easily ?

    And ive tryed the defiant retofit ..... and its sucks donkey .... it cant withstand a hit and crumbles soooo easily.

    Many of you feds have no idea even how to use the defiant, in my bop i can "semi tank" v these defiants and other ships.

    And on another note of topic .... why are so many feds using anti-proton and poloran weps ..... there just a waste of skill points, in my opinion phasers are the best hands down .....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I do not PvP on my Feds at all. reason being is that most Feds have no clue.

    As a Fed you can get to max level just by doing nothing, or by being part of a zerg in an instance. I see it every day in the fleet actions. It's massive zerg fests, and most have no idea what actually is going on, or what the objective is.

    As a Klingon you are mostly on your own, fleet actions consist of maybe 7 - 8 players, mostly less that that. While leveling, Klingons have to go through PVP if they don't want to grind exploration missions. They are accustomed to PVP and working together, even if they are not grouped up.

    I've been in C&N matches where the Feds did not get a single kill. While this is not the norm, it happens quite often. I've heard everything from Klingons are being overpowered to Klingons are cheaters. Fact is, Klingons have been nerfed repeatedly, and their ships are weaker that the fed ships. And my prediction is that Klingons will be nerfed again and again due to clueless Federation players crying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Bungle wrote:
    For me I use to be pretty good about situational awareness, staying close to my healers but the squishiness of the refit has me running away to cloak a lot more than I should. Some of the new abilities and changes to some old ones have my timing a little messed up as well.

    :D

    Are you sure your not Klingon as it sounds like your a Klingon? - you know squishyness and all that the Klingons have to suffer from, like it taking 4-5 of our ships to down a single Fed cruiser and all.
    Sounds like you may be Klingon?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    In CnH escorts are only good for one thing because first off all it takes forever to cap a point with an escort. It takes 2-3 to equal one cruiser so really do want the damage dealers just circling at a point or doing what they do best. Fed for the most part worry about themselves first, cruisers do not support escorts and the net result is both the cruiser and the escort go boom. The general strat in CnH I see is large group capping points instead of a 2-3 smaller groups doing it with one of the smaller ones running interference.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Are you sure your not Klingon as it sounds like your a Klingon? - you know squishyness and all that the Klingons have to suffer from, like it taking 4-5 of our ships to down a single Fed cruiser and all.
    Sounds like you may be Klingon?

    Haha Roach, Nope never had Kling. toon make it past Commander . But i have been called one so many times in my escorts even before the new cloak that i must be doing something right. :D. And yes the cruisers in the right hands are a waste of time for me to try and solo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Well..

    Cloak makes A big difference in the play...if almost all of your team has a cloak or even a battle cloak it's not hard even for a group of strangers. Just stick close to your cloaked buddies, de-cloak when someone else does, and open up on one or two common targets. Klingon ships only have to be 80 to 90 percent as good as Fed ships after that. Fed ball still seems the best way to counter, but the Feds have to support each other still even if they manage to stay close. The Klinks get to scatter and re-form for another de-cloaking alpha strike.

    I wouldn't say either group is smarter or dumber. Most are playing both anyway, remember.
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