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15 in Ground Arenas???!?!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited August 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Tell me this was just a mistake, Cryptic, and it'll all be back to normal in a few hours.

The (now) Aug 1 patch has changed ground arenas to end at 15 kills - this is a terrible change and I'm going to tell you why.

And I shouldn't have to.

Player characters are not ships. Believe it or not, characters can die in a few shots. Ships take on average, minutes. You've also changed the spawning in ground PvP maps (another mistake, but now it's related so I get to discuss it too). I can see the conversation among Cryptic staff going something like this:
Bad ideas wrote:
- "Hey, people are complaining about random spawning, they have to wait a few seconds to rejoin their group!"
- "No problem! Let's remove it all together and have only fixed spawn points based on area!"
- "Sounds good! I'll bet they'll love us for this one!"

Why is it bad? CAMPING. Ground is a really small community, you can't put a bad idea past us. You've given us the ability to camp until a game is ended. It doesn't help that a character is helpless for the duration of a global cooldown on coming back to life. Yes, characters actually take damage before they are allowed to deal it. But you'd know all about that, you test this stuff, right?

This just follows a trend. A minor complaint is brought forth, and the solution is so clumsy and brutish it creates problems far worse than what it was implemented to solve. And rarely, if ever, does your development team seem to realize your solution was actually an error.

Back to my original purpose for this thread - what do you get when you cross your spawn changes, with the change in number of kills for completion of a PvP instance?

Answer: you get 30 second games. Brilliant. And very, very soon...you'll have less players, too.

Back to 40, please!

PS. I am saying this from having just played in a position to camp. I don't want to lose a game in 30 seconds anymore than I'd want to win a game in 30 seconds. Especially for that matter, if I'd just waited a half hour to an hour for a game.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Many aruged 40 was too long. But 15 is indeed too short.

    Needs to be somewhere between 20 to 30. Which to me 30 is a nice number.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    This is definitely a bug. I will make sure that this gets fixed ASAP. Thanks for reporting this!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Thank you for your prompt reply!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    LuckyJim wrote:
    Back to 40, please!

    Umm... No

    the 40 kill limit is what killed ground pvp to start with. Give me a fun 30 second match anyday, over a boring 40 min game of holds and roots...

    And maybe, just maybe, now that it isnt such a long drawn out ordeal, more people will be queued up. Hearing that the limit is back down is the only thing thats made me want to queue up in a long time.
    mkenneally wrote: »
    This is definitely a bug. I will make sure that this gets fixed ASAP. Thanks for reporting this!

    But of course it has to be a bug...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    mkenneally wrote: »
    This is definitely a bug. I will make sure that this gets fixed ASAP. Thanks for reporting this!

    THIRTY.

    You want the ground game back? TTTHHHIIIRRRTTTYYY.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Logged in today and saw PvP is getting worse and worse, lol. You should try some other games like All Points Bulletin. When I play STO I feel miserable waiting for queues that never start. I actually dread logging in. Then I play other games and find they have great PvP matches that have a lot of people and are a ton of fun--exciting and challenging (like Left 4 Dead 2 and APB). I might never play STO again. Actually I ran into DisGo (you remember him, right?) while playing All Points Bulletin!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    mkenneally wrote: »
    This is definitely a bug. I will make sure that this gets fixed ASAP. Thanks for reporting this!

    Good to know that this is a bug. Waiting 30 mins (and sometimes hours) for games to happen with an average playtime of less then 2 minutes felt totally wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    40 is killing ground times. Matches are way longer than most arenas (unless you play PUG).

    Spawncamping was a direct result of 40 count limits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I will run this past the designers and see if lowering the kill count below 40 makes sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Umm... No

    the 40 kill limit is what killed ground pvp to start with. Give me a fun 30 second match anyday, over a boring 40 min game of holds and roots...

    But of course it has to be a bug...

    Saying that the 40 kill limit is what killed ground pvp is quite an exaggeration -

    There's two types of pvper's in STO. Some players join pvp matches for the sake of accruing marks / skill points / emblems etc, and complain about the length of matches.

    But there has always been a sizable base of players that do ground pvp cos they actually enjoy it - myself, being one of them. I find it hard to believe there'd be many people who think playing a 30 second match is remotely enjoyable - the sort of matches that are pretty much determined within the first few seconds, based on who gets the upper hand first.

    Since STO launched in Feb, my focus has always been on ground pvp, and those who know me, know I've queued up consistently up until now. And I can, with ease, identify the exact point where the ground pvp queues dropped signifcantly. It was just after a patch that introduced dramatic changes to the pvp queue system. Specifically:
    1. Players were no longer able to leave matches by beaming / warping out
    2. New Players were unable to join matches that weren't full

    This is when uneven matches became the norm for ground, which put a lot of people off. Furthermore the inability to leave matches discouraged a lot of people from even queuing for fear of getting stuck. This was particularly devastating for ground pvp, as spacers at least had the option of flying to the edge of pvp maps and warping out, so was less of a deterrent for them.

    Up until this patch, ground queues were still consistently moving - I never had to wait more than a matter of minutes for a match. But within a week or so of these new changes, the queues were dead, except at certain hours of the day - particularly at RA/BG level. In result many of the best ground pvper's have stopped queuing for ground pvp, and I know many that have sadly left as a direct result of this.

    Before messing around with the max score, cryptic needs to take a serious look at this queuing system, before the rest of us ground pounders follow suit. If a better solution can't be found, then at the very least revert these changes as they clearly haven't helped retain your ground pvp player base.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    meeowww wrote: »
    Logged in today and saw PvP is getting worse and worse, lol. You should try some other games like All Points Bulletin. When I play STO I feel miserable waiting for queues that never start. I actually dread logging in. Then I play other games and find they have great PvP matches that have a lot of people and are a ton of fun--exciting and challenging (like Left 4 Dead 2 and APB). I might never play STO again. Actually I ran into DisGo (you remember him, right?) while playing All Points Bulletin!

    You aren't wrong there Meow... ground queues seem to just get worse and worse.

    Your old Fleet F.S. misses you greatly, but understand why you didn't renew, and this is just another reason.

    As per my post above, if things don't change dramatically soon, there might be nothing left of the ever shrinking ground community.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    We've been complaining about 40 kills since beta. Yeah 15 is too low, but 40 is a grind.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    25-30 kill count for ground is pretty good.. some games dont get interesting until 20..

    ....fixing the ground respawn points is pretty good..

    ... having more incentive for people to get into ground would be nice, too...

    ...granted.. killing Otto is a big perk for many people.. but I cant be everywhere at once. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Spawncamping was a direct result of 40 count limits.
    Eh, I remember spawncamping (and complaints about it) back in the 15-kill days. It's one of those "no brainer" tactics, like the beamball, that's just gonna happen.

    Forty kills is just a shade too much though - of the 3 ground matches I've played since I came back, I found myself saying "let's just get this over with" in 2 of 'em. It'd be cool if the actual number of kills depended on the number of people in the match - like, say, 30ish kills for 10v10's, 25 kills for full 5v5's, and 20 kills for underpopulated "5v5"'s.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Spawncamping was a direct result of 40 count limits.

    Well why did it happen in those super short games with a limit of 15 kills today too then ?


    Before season 2 there were like 5 to 7 spots to randomly spawn in for arena maps, the chances to meet an opponent right on that spot weren't that high. The exception to that was always shanty town with just one spawn spot.

    Now all that changed with season2 and people often seem to respawn in the same location (mostly the initial spawn spot). I think i've never seen anyone in a group say "Hey lets go spawn camp those guys!" it usualy rather happens automatically that the winning team gains ground while chasing the opponents and at some point the battle happens to be right around one teams spawn point and they get kinda locked in that situation.

    Shanty town kinda showed that this would happen. That map always had just one spawn location, and the kill count is even a bit higher there (60) - but killing isn't even necessary there, people could opt to do the virus runs and get games over quick if they really wanted, still spawn camping happens quite often there as pvp is more exciting then doing it pve style i think.

    Once random spawn spots are brought back the spawn camping problem will surely disappear again.

    Kolikos wrote:
    It'd be cool if the actual number of kills depended on the number of people in the match - like, say, 30ish kills for 10v10's, 25 kills for full 5v5's, and 20 kills for underpopulated "5v5"'s.

    10v10 on ground - i've never seen that happen, did you?
    Underpopulated 5on5 is what happens all the time on ground it seems, full ones seem to be rather rare.
    Getting a 15 kills LC game done seemed to take around 2 minutes average today (depends a bit who plays tho). I would say 20 sounds good for 2on2, 2on3 etc, but the queue doesn't let that happen anymore i think and adjusting the limit once people quit out is no option imo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    mkenneally wrote: »
    I will run this past the designers and see if lowering the kill count below 40 makes sense.

    Awesome. I hope that it does get lowered. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I like 40. Lower it much more than that and it removes any chance for a comeback. The only times 40 was a drag was when matches became 5v1 due to unbalanced match starts, non-rezers and afk'ers. On principle, I do not want to see changes made to appease this group... I'm tired of being held hostage by these griefers in the past and sure as hell don't want their input now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I like 40. Lower it much more than that and it removes any chance for a comeback. The only times 40 was a drag was when matches became 5v1 due to unbalanced match starts, non-rezers and afk'ers. On principle, I do not want to see changes made to appease this group... I'm tired of being held hostage by these griefers in the past and sure as hell don't want their input now.

    I've hated the 40 kills limited on ground ever since the Beta introduced it from 10 kills on ground. It's one of the main reasons I stopped Ground PVPing at all. And probobly why to this day I don't ground PVP. :mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    It depends on the map... Ghost Ship can be finished very quickly, within 10 minutes. Here's a video where my team cleared out Ghost Ship in just under 7 minutes using the "roving swarm" strategy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkcmMx_MOuM

    Whereas Assimilated Cruiser is such a big map that 40 kills can easily take 45 minutes, especially when the teams are not balanced.

    So I'd say, raise Ghost Ship to 60 kills and Assimilated Cruiser to a lower number.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I like 40. Lower it much more than that and it removes any chance for a comeback. The only times 40 was a drag was when matches became 5v1 due to unbalanced match starts, non-rezers and afk'ers. On principle, I do not want to see changes made to appease this group... I'm tired of being held hostage by these griefers in the past and sure as hell don't want their input now.

    I completely agree with this. Full 5 vs 5 (or even 4 vs 4) matches played as intended, with all players participating have never been a grind in my experience. Its when matches have been badly uneven - often due to players afking, refusing to respawn, or logging out that matches become long and boring. But nothing will stop the opposing team from refusing to respawn / log out even with a reduced score max, regardless of what the max score is.

    That having being said, I'll admit even numbered matches can still potentially take longer due to the ability to bunker in ground pvp, with teams staying out of line of sight using walls/doors objects, or behind the protection of engineer fabrications (covershields, turrets, generators, etc) . But this has nothing to do with the kill count max. This is not much different to a KvK space arena, where each side refuses to be the first to decloak, so is not unique to ground.

    I actually love matches resulting in "mexican standoffs" as it usually means:
    - Both sides are relatively even (not necessarily in numbers)
    - Both sides are taking the game seriously, rather than making suicide runs, and trying to just get the game over and done with

    These longer matches give us the opportunity to understand how the other team operates, and devise strategies specific to them. I personally find these matches enjoyable, as do many serious ground pvpers. The match becomes a test of skill, wits (and a little patience) rather than being randomly determined by whoever manages to get the upper hand first. And as BorrowedTune said above, it gives the losing side an opportunity to turn a game around - which is one of the most satisfying experiences in a pvp match.

    As I said in a previous post, there's two types of pvper's.
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2911435&postcount=11

    Reducing the kill count might please the first group - the farmers (SP / EC / Mark of Honor farmers) - but you'll the robbing the rest of us the opportunity of having some really satisfying matches.


    Rather than changing the kill count, find a way of preventing / discouraging afker's and deserters such as:
    1. Booting players from a match that refuse to respawn
    2. Alternatively, introduce a timer, so players automatically respawn after a fixed time (say 30 seconds)
    3. Marking players that leave a match as a deserter, and preventing them from requeuing for a certain amount of time (say 15minutes)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Playing to 40 kills when you are outmatched is a terrible ****ing experience. 15-0 is bad enough, 40-0 just makes me want to cancel my subscription. Especially since someone always quits or its 5-3 or some ****.

    I could care less about my l33t xp speed.

    On that note, why don't pvp matches scale to length as far as marks/emblems are concerned? Getting smashed in 4 minutes flat by a raptor fleet has the same value as a half an hour C&H match. Noone cares about credits or starfleet merits at top level; it's the dailies that matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    DeadlyShoe wrote:
    Playing to 40 kills when you are outmatched is a terrible ****ing experience. 15-0 is bad enough, 40-0 just makes me want to cancel my subscription. Especially since someone always quits or its 5-3 or some ****.

    Try to view it from the passionate/hardcore pvp players view too please: you may feel like outclassing your opponents in roughly 60% of the games. In like half of these cases shortly after the start the first players of the opposing team disappears, the left behind opponents stand even less of a chance to organize anything fun to play against then they sometimes voice their anger in zone chat - but are the opponents really to be blamed on that? I think not.

    So then someone may come up with a "damn, lets get this over with quick". Considering everyone may have waited for quite a while in the queue to make it even happen... this will sadly then make the game completely worthless for both sides.

    Now if i have like 6 ground games within 10 hours of waiting time (that was before season 2, now its worse!) and 3 or 4 of those turn into "lets get this over with quick" scenario, this it what me makes thinking about canceling my sub (if i'd had a monthly one..).

    What i prefer to happen instead of a "lets get this over with" is rather a "hey, lets <1on1, 2on2, fist fight, bat fight> this game", as regardless of the outnumbering and possible outclassing it may still be fun for both sides that way. Sometimes this happens and i remember a lot of these 1on1, fist or bat games to be the most fun games i ever had too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    DeadlyShoe wrote:
    Playing to 40 kills when you are outmatched is a terrible ****ing experience. 15-0 is bad enough, 40-0 just makes me want to cancel my subscription. Especially since someone always quits or its 5-3 or some ****.

    That's why I avoid ground PvP like the plague. That you people want more than a 40 kill count blows my mind, that anyone actually enjoys ground PvP is beyond me, but then again, I'm not here to tell you how to play, if you get enjoyment, then good on you. From my experience it's always been 5-6 guys against 1-2 still willing to respawn just to get the horrible match over with. Plus, ground combat is just so... annoying.

    Even Meow... who claims to enjoy Ground PvP has a link in her Signature to a Ground PvP video showing her at one point logging off in the middle of a match... LOL?

    However, there are two things I think would help, bring back the random respawns, and lower than 40 kills for a win, especially on smaller population maps. Plus, make the maps interesting, Team Deathmatch is really boring. Some King of the Hill action would be interesting, and a smaller Capture and Hold outdoor map (small island surrounded by water perhaps).

    Overall though, what I'd absolutely love to see for PvP is a persistent world/zone (something between Pi Canis and Psi Velorum) that required both Space and Ground PvP to win. Imagine a Capture and Hold Space Battle, where you fight for control of some resource moons, while the ground combat team fights for control of the mining base(s) on the planet that refine the resources. Oh... and it's a 3 faction fight, since it's on the border of Romulan, Klingon and Federation territory (Romulans can be an NPC faction that holds neutral planets/systems until they are implemented as a playable faction).

    You'd also likely have to have planets/systems locked from capture by other factions until they capture systems in a specific order, so there'd be 1-3 systems open for capture at any given point. This could allow Federation losing a battle against Rom/Klingon on one system to let the Rom/Klingons have at it, and move in on a vulnerable Romulan system. The 3 faction system is usually a nice buffer for a high population faction, as the high pop faction usually ends up having to fight a two front war.

    Sorry... I... uh... got of track there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Malcivious wrote:
    Even Meow... who claims to enjoy Ground PvP has a link in her Signature to a Ground PvP video showing her at one point logging off in the middle of a match... LOL?

    FYI, I am a man and I was experiencing a severe SNIPER RIFLE bug where the character is locked in an animation and can't get out of it. The only way is to log out, lol thanks for watching my videos and love your compliments :D

    FYI there were a ton of problems and graphical bugs that I reported with that video, see my list here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=172514
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I am sorry to say I must agree 15 is a great number much shorter game the 40 kills really did kill PVP ground combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    meeowww wrote: »
    FYI, I am a man and I was experiencing a severe SNIPER RIFLE bug where the character is locked in an animation and can't get out of it. The only way is to log out, lol thanks for watching my videos and love your compliments :D

    FYI there were a ton of problems and graphical bugs that I reported with that video, see my list here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=172514

    Ahh, my apologies, the female avatar and seeming love of cats was all I had to go on. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    meeowww wrote: »
    FYI, I am a man and I was experiencing a severe SNIPER RIFLE bug where the character is locked in an animation and can't get out of it. The only way is to log out, lol thanks for watching my videos and love your compliments :D

    FYI there were a ton of problems and graphical bugs that I reported with that video, see my list here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=172514

    I can beleave that I got hit with a knock down blast and was stuck in a wall for most of the PVP gound mission 40 kills stuck in a wall do to a digital glitch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Zevermoon if you truly want to go through a game in less time than it takes to read this post, knowing you'd have to wait a half hour to an hour or more between games, there are surely cheaper and better ways to be a TRIBBLE.
    mkenneally wrote: »
    I will run this past the designers and see if lowering the kill count below 40 makes sense.
    I strongly believe anybody suggesting this simply hasn't taken into account the other changes this season to make games start with even teams. Obviously 5v1 will take a long time. But there are to be no more 5v1s thanks to the new queue system (when its working properly). An even game is a fun game - but only at the original 40. Ground is not space, it cannot be evaluated like space. The fixed spawns compound this issue - both have got to go.

    But that aside the games are as of now still at 15. I can only speak for myself but I since I find that totally unplayable, it isn't worth it to me to join any arenas until it gets corrected. And that's saying a lot because I play this game primarily for ground arenas. Shanty Town is not queuing with even members either. That doesn't really leave me anything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    mikiy wrote:
    Try to view it from the passionate/hardcore pvp players view too please: you may feel like outclassing your opponents in roughly 60% of the games. In like half of these cases shortly after the start the first players of the opposing team disappears, the left behind opponents stand even less of a chance to organize anything fun to play against then they sometimes voice their anger in zone chat - but are the opponents really to be blamed on that? I think not.

    So then someone may come up with a "damn, lets get this over with quick". Considering everyone may have waited for quite a while in the queue to make it even happen... this will sadly then make the game completely worthless for both sides.

    Now if i have like 6 ground games within 10 hours of waiting time (that was before season 2, now its worse!) and 3 or 4 of those turn into "lets get this over with quick" scenario, this it what me makes thinking about canceling my sub (if i'd had a monthly one..).

    What i prefer to happen instead of a "lets get this over with" is rather a "hey, lets <1on1, 2on2, fist fight, bat fight> this game", as regardless of the outnumbering and possible outclassing it may still be fun for both sides that way. Sometimes this happens and i remember a lot of these 1on1, fist or bat games to be the most fun games i ever had too.


    I respect your opinion, but I find it to be almost defeatest. PVP fluctuations in games are often cause and effect things.

    I've been passionately pvping in multiple games since 2003. I really preferred the 15 man fast matches on ground. I also remember ground ques in beta back then being so popular that I never waited for a full minute once, at any level, to jump into a match.

    The 40 man ground game is why you wait 10 hours for 6 games. It's also why people quit those matches, even by hard crash when they feel the sides are uneven. It is not a reward for waiting.

    For every awesome game you've seen, the odds are you've seen someone give up, by laying down or just jumping in place. I didn't see that kind of TRIBBLE in the 15 man match days of beta.

    I'd vote for a 15 man game. I'd even vote for Fed pvp missions rewarding ground pvp play While you are at it, let Fed newbie toons start at pvp level once people did the tutorial once. Both of those would jump new Feds toons in just like the klingon side does. It might even lead to tier ladder competitions.

    I would rather see pvp expand and grow. I'd also like to see the player base get better.

    40 man matches, lasting for 40 minutes, as 5 people kill 1 player, isn't going to make that happen. It's just going to keep shrinking ground pvp until you wait even longer for a fight.

    My 2 cents.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Laylyn wrote: »
    I've been passionately pvping in multiple games since 2003. I really preferred the 15 man fast matches on ground. I also remember ground ques in beta back then being so popular that I never waited for a full minute once, at any level, to jump into a match.

    The 40 man ground game is why you wait 10 hours for 6 games. It's also why people quit those matches, even by hard crash when they feel the sides are uneven. It is not a reward for waiting.

    For every awesome game you've seen, the odds are you've seen someone give up, by laying down or just jumping in place. I didn't see that kind of TRIBBLE in the 15 man match days of beta.

    15 man? 40 man?
    The thread is about the 15 kills to win score bug, not the amount of players.

    Also some math for you:
    If i have 6 games happen a day that each take lets say around 20-30 minutes for those 40 kills, that means i have around 2-3 hours of pvp a day.

    Right now with 15 kills the average playtime is somewhere around 2-4 minutes .. and the amount of games that actually start is now *less* then before it seems, to get anywhere near the same time spend with pvp i would have to get like 30-40 games a day, thats just not going to happen.

    I want to spend my time with pvp, the more the better not the other way around. Making the games shorter (as we can see currently) doesn't seem to increase the amount of games that start much at all.

    I hope cryptic is collecting some statistics of the queue.. amount of games to happening over a day (ground and space separate ofc!), average amount of players, average time spend in games, average time spend waiting in the queue etc.. having that sort of data to compare with before season 2 should be an eye opener to them.
    Laylyn wrote: »
    I'd even vote for Fed pvp missions rewarding ground pvp play While you are at it, let Fed newbie toons start at pvp level once people did the tutorial once.

    They need to make that tutorial optional, its annoying yea. Once played once through it, Fed toons should be able to start pvp ready too, but thats quite a bit off topic here.
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