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About the Scanner Minigame...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited December 2010 in Controls and User Interface
in my opinion the scanner minigame feels more like "Fisher Price" than "Enterprise" at the moment. I think it's quite annoying like a popup in a web browser at the moment, therefore I just ignore all missions which are scanner related.

But this doesn't have to be like this. With a little rework I think it can be really fun and more fit into the Star Trek scope featuring more tech background.

My idea about scanning for a residual radiation should start with a very noisy curve which is amplitude and frequency modulated - there are no clean sine curves in the world. Then to get the clearer image you should be able to jog through the timeline with a cursor and get a frequency/signal strength histogram at this specific timecode. Then you should be able to apply high-pass and low-pass filters to remove the noise. With multiple cuts through the timeline you should be able to define an envelope waveform to isolate the correct pattern.

And please remove the time limit. If somebody decides to analyze a pattern, then it is his choice to tinker with this tech in depth, so don't reduce his experience. Because of this time limit the feeling for doing something really important is totally gone.

To understand what I mean, here is an image...

http://sites.google.com/site/tobicochem/pics/scanner.jpg

Please post your comments. I love to get a comment from the dev's, too.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Completely agree. The complete lack of skill needed, repetitive nature, and repetitive nature of this 'minigame' is almost insulting. I could care less about the 'slight' improvement in loot and it seems like it seriously detracts from the immersion factor of the game. Please take it out until a scanning option that took more than 30 sec to develop is available along with an option to simply take the loot w/o further 'cleaning' of the signal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    BTW, I like the concept suggested above. More difficult signals could be presented signifying more uncommon or rare loot. Lots of potential here, take the time to get it right, your subscribers will reward your efforts Cryptic. Don't cheapen the experience, dance with what brung ya.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    i love the idea of the scanner minigame the only drawback it has that i can think of is when ur in a star cluster and the mission is to gather data on the last data collection your science officer interupts the scan causing a failure in the minigame... PLEASE FIX
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    My opinion on this new scanner is if the time limit is going to stay, the quality and percent chance for rare materials should be based on how much time was remaining on the scan. In other words, if we completed the scan quickly with much time to spare - guarenteed to get a good quailty rare. If we completed just under the wire with two tenths of a second to spare, probably going to get a single regular material.


    But I like the OP's suggestion as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    the idea was more like this:

    the quality and amount of the reward should not be reversely depending on the time, but on your skill to operate the scanner which means, the more accurate you create this envelope waveform to get a clearer signal the higher would be the quality and amount of your reward. this could also mean the opposite of your suggestion, hence: the more time you spend tinkering with the scanner, the better is your reward. aborting the scanner minigame just earns you the minimum reward.

    how to understand the envelope filter: actually there are multiple waves with different signal strengths modulated with each other. now you create an envelope wave which isolates one frequency with a little tolerance above and beyond. the trick is to create this envelope in such a manner that you filter out signals, which are too weak to produce trackable traces and to keep inside which are worth investigating.

    lets say - to make it clear


    in this graphs the frequency (Hz) is on the left-to-right axis and the signal strength (dB) is on the low-to-high axis

    https://sites.google.com/site/tobicochem/pics/signal.jpg

    you have a frequency of 440Hz (you can hear this) with a signal strength of 50dB (e.g. normal speaking voice loudness)
    and there is another signal with 500Hz with a signal strength of 10dB (e.g. breathing noise loudness)
    and the random background noise has a signal strength of 0dB (hearing limit)

    https://sites.google.com/site/tobicochem/pics/isolate.jpg

    the skill is to isolate the two signals from the backgound noise. each isolated signal will be de-modulated from the scanner leaving the remaining signals and the noise visible as AM waveform.
    if you didn't carefully match the first signal, and isolate the waveform, then the remaining signal will become too weak or too noisy to isolate another waveform.

    https://sites.google.com/site/tobicochem/pics/result.jpg

    if you just isolate one signal, then you will lose the second trace and cannot get it's reward. this means you have to carefully create these envelopes to isolate each frequency and lock them in to track them down.

    if you succeed in the end you have 2 isolated signals (frequency Hz and strength dB) and a scanner that shows just the random noise within the noise threshold (red lines) around the zero line and no more waveform. this means you have collected all possible traces.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    i love the idea of the scanner minigame the only drawback it has that i can think of is when ur in a star cluster and the mission is to gather data on the last data collection your science officer interupts the scan causing a failure in the minigame... PLEASE FIX

    I was just about to complain about the same thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I like the idea to improve the mini game difficulty/complexity.

    I would also like to see some more mini games, e.g. for bypassing the curcuit of a door.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I dont care what they do with it as long as I can keep hitting ESC to skip the horrid thing :)

    I cant stand that sound at the end of winning this so called mindless game.. I mean mini game..

    Its like fingernails down a chalkboard !
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    As much as I like the idea of making this more complex, I am a little concerned about potentially alienating those who do not have a decent grasp of maths/sciences. Personally, I'm a maths/science dude - this appeals to me immensely... but I can easily see how I'd be annoyed if the game created some complex language / inter-personal skills type game.

    A game like this is based on what your CHARACTER is able to do, not what the actual PLAYER can handle. Because none of us can actually align a warp-core or detect a spatial anomaly or whatever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    The scanner thing was a complete waste of development effort. It has screwed up anomaly drops for the past month and half, and they are still screwed up. And for what? Fairly often I still get only 1 piece of data from a node even when I "win".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    MilesIvanov your right, but a game is about challenge, isn't it? People want to get a challenging experience which addicts them to the game. The scanner minigame as it is at the moment is not at all challenging and therefore not at all addictive. On the contrary, it is off-putting. This is why I avoid to even aproach scanner readings.

    What if they implemented a TETRIS, PIPEMANIA, BUBBLES, BEJEWELLED, whatever-clone? This would be challenging.
    Take a look for example at the minigames in MASS EFFECT 2. this would be a good compromise.

    besides this, a minigame is not the main issue to make this game addictive - in my opinion it is the feels-like-being-a-real-trek-tech-diplomat-whatever-feeling that would make me come back to the game again and again. but even the new first contact missions are somewhat generic and you never have the feeling of actually having an influence on what will happen..

    Cryptic, please make this game feel more like trek and not just scratch the surface.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Cryptic:

    If the Waveform mini-game is to stay, please correct the terminology to be mathematically correct. The up and down buttons do change the amplitude of the wave, but the left and right buttons affect the wavelength (or frequency--take your pick), NOT the phase shift of the wave.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    what a cool thread, thanks Mindvampire.
    just to add my thoughts..

    if i'm running round a map and i know there is loot hidden, sure i'll use my tricorder to find it.
    whether i use my tricorder or not - that same quantity of loot should be there. i wasn't aware my tricorder should be affecting my loot.

    now if we were to use the complex methods from the previous posts to match waves and signals so that i could bombard my samples with different radiations to make ones i don't have - then we'd have one great crafting tool :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Did Cryptic consider that using the sensor scanner is one of the most frequent actions players take in the course of gameplay? Seriously, remove the mini-game and just add the rare loot to the loot table. Don't make us work harder for a task that is already quite repetitive.

    I haven't played since this spastic, unplayable mini-game was added. It's that irritating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Ya since I came back I have to say that the scanner minigame is annoying as hell. There should be an option to turn it off so you just get the same drops as if you failed. If people want to play with it thats fine, its their time, but it should be optional.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    LagunaD wrote:
    The scanner thing was a complete waste of development effort. It has screwed up anomaly drops for the past month and half, and they are still screwed up. And for what? Fairly often I still get only 1 piece of data from a node even when I "win".

    Same here. Yay for 1 Radiation Sample!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Erm. I vote for a removal of the minigame. Making it take longer or be more involved would be intensely frustrating. I just want my data samples, I really don't want to have to waste more time than required gathering them. There is no joy in it.

    And I can think of no way to make it entertaining, either, as the entire idea of a mini-game like this is ridiculous and should've been strangled in the craddle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Nazaca wrote:
    Erm. I vote for a removal of the minigame. Making it take longer or be more involved would be intensely frustrating. I just want my data samples, I really don't want to have to waste more time than required gathering them. There is no joy in it.

    And I can think of no way to make it entertaining, either, as the entire idea of a mini-game like this is ridiculous and should've been strangled in the craddle.

    Erm. I vote for a removal of the STF's. Making it take longer or be more involved would be intensely frustrating. I just want my end rewards, I really don't want to have to waste more time than required gathering them. There is no joy in it.

    And I can think of no way to make it entertaining, either, as the entire idea of a game like this is ridiculous and should've been strangled in the craddle. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Tinead wrote:
    Erm. I vote for a removal of the STF's. Making it take longer or be more involved would be intensely frustrating. I just want my end rewards, I really don't want to have to waste more time than required gathering them. There is no joy in it.

    And I can think of no way to make it entertaining, either, as the entire idea of a game like this is ridiculous and should've been strangled in the craddle. :rolleyes:

    Heh.

    STFs serve a different purpose, namely "end game content" or alternatively "group content". What purpose does the gathering mini-game serve? Currently it slows down gathering by a small margin, it allows you the random chance of getting a particle trace and ... well, and?

    What benefit does it provide?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Nazaca wrote:
    Heh.

    STFs serve a different purpose, namely "end game content" or alternatively "group content". What purpose does the gathering mini-game serve? Currently it slows down gathering by a small margin, it allows you the random chance of getting a particle trace and ... well, and?

    What benefit does it provide?

    :p I see my sarcasm has been lost in the void,it provides the same outcome as the STF's,namely it's part of the game.Clicking top right on the mini-game cancels it,so you dont have to play it at all.

    How I wish you could do the same with STF's :D

    Oh sorry,in reply to your question,it entertains,now that doesn't seem to include you,but thats your perogative...... me,well it's part of STO and I do find it entertaining. ( The crafted sets are useful and sell for a pretty penny in the exchange,it's a win win situation as far as I can see )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Tinead wrote:
    :p I see my sarcasm has been lost in the void,it provides the same outcome as the STF's,namely it's part of the game.Clicking top right on the mini-game cancels it,so you dont have to play it at all.

    How I wish you could do the same with STF's :D

    Oh sorry,in reply to your question,it entertains,now that doesn't seem to include you,but thats your perogative...... me,well it's part of STO and I do find it entertaining. ( The crafted sets are useful and sell for a pretty penny in the exchange,it's a win win situation as far as I can see )

    Oh, no, I got the sarcasm. It produced neither entertainment nor enlightenment.

    The current scanner mini-game has not always been a part of STO. It is a relatively recent addition. I happen to find it a waste of time, and as such react negatively to people making the suggestion of making it more difficult or more involved. It is their privilege to suggest "improvements", it is my privilege to suggest they either leave it as is or flat out remove it.

    Or, put another way: Making the mini-game more difficult or move involved will reduce the amount of fun I have with the game. (Even if only by a small amount.) Something that will reduce my fun is seen, by me, as a bad thing.

    Now! If you can show me a benefit, where it will objectively\universally improve the game and\or improve my fun? I'll support it. The suggestions being provided in this thread? No joy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Tinead wrote:
    :p I see my sarcasm has been lost in the void,it provides the same outcome as the STF's,namely it's part of the game.Clicking top right on the mini-game cancels it,so you dont have to play it at all.

    How I wish you could do the same with STF's :D

    Oh sorry,in reply to your question,it entertains,now that doesn't seem to include you ,but thats your perogative...... me,well it's part of STO and I do find it entertaining. ( The crafted sets are useful and sell for a pretty penny in the exchange,it's a win win situation as far as I can see )

    See that sentence,there's your answer,lets just agree to disagree,I'm losing the will to live here ;)
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