Were you referring to the fact that it used to pop more reliably (in which case I agree with you) or the fact that people used to instantly explode from RNG crits (in which case I don't agree with you)?
Were you referring to the fact that it used to pop more reliably (in which case I agree with you) or the fact that people used to instantly explode from RNG crits (in which case I don't agree with you)?
both, but not exactly the same as the latter.
pvp mechanics:
Qeues don't pop reliably - with endless griefing potential.
Qeues sometimes break teams (happened twice today) or drop a member from the qeue.
The side that wins the initial engagement gets to spawncamp the opponents.
PvP balance:
Supercrits aside, pressuring someone out through a healer is retardedly difficult.
Supercrits aside, bursting someone out when the heals are on cooldown is a paltry task.
Supercrits aside, teams with decent healers are incredibly hard to kill (especially when that team's dps kills the other team's dps).
Qeues don't pop reliably - with endless griefing potential. Agreed
Qeues sometimes break teams (happened twice today) or drop a member from the qeue. Happened 3 times the day of the patch. Haven't got a 5v5 since that day
The side that wins the initial engagement gets to spawncamp the opponents. Really needs to be fixed
PvP balance:
Supercrits aside, pressuring someone out through a healer is retardedly difficult. I'm finding that if you can get the right team make up then this isn't that much of an issue. Demands team work I like that.
Supercrits aside, bursting someone out when the heals are on cooldown is a paltry task.
Supercrits aside, teams with decent healers are incredibly hard to kill (especially when that team's dps kills the other team's dps).
Aside from the Q issues I don't think balance is that bad. That may change of course if I could get into some matchs. Fix the q then I'll edit.
It was called Season 1.0 my friend and it exited stage left a long time ago. I know I've brought it up in dozens of posts across dozens of topics but it is the single most telling quote I've ever heard from a DEV before or since.
When I asked Snix why he wasn't soliciting high-end PvP input or feedback while redesigning all the powers prior to Season 1.2 and why they felt the need to "dumb down" the PvP game to the lowest common denominator so that weak players could be artificially propped up against the elite players his response was:
"To be honest, the average player in STO isn't comfortable with nor can they compete at the pace of combat you are accustomed to." - Snix
If that doesn't say it all right there, I don't know what does. The fast-pace of combat we saw in Beta and the first month of release will never make a comeback. The average and sub-par player has QQ'ed the DEV team into countless nerfs, gameplay mechanic alterations, and so-called "balance changes" to appease them. It's like opening Pandora's Box...there's no way to stuff all this TRIBBLE that's been let out back into it again.
i miss them too, the other day in a cap and hold, i was in a sci refit and held out agaibnst 2 tact refits until a 3rd surprised me and killed me in one pass. i mean come on, a science ship holding out against 2 tacticals?
Bounty isn't it funny that exactly what I said 2 months ago has come true?
We (dob) warned the whole community in 1.q thatr things were getting bad and the slowing of combat was the worst thing then we said a warning to all when we were testing 1.qq and the general community thought we were just doomsayers........
2 months later as I watch the titanic continue to take on water and continue to sink by loosing more and more active players and continue to bork up ques and slow combat we (dob) often sit in vent and laugh at the "real pvpers" that continue to stand on the edge of the bow looking down into the cold dark abyss that awaits them as tbe ship heads in the only direction that this captain (craptic) can take it.........at least this titanic has no problem charging its doomed passengers extra for different colored lifevests and lifeboats with cloak.
All games have lifespans...ups and downs of popularity but it is RARE that a game that loses over 90% of its population in the first 4 months after setrting sail stays alive for long. I've played lots of mmos and ihave learned when to jump ship and at least salvage my game time since I had already lost my cash investment.
To those that continue to have faith in this game as a viable option good luck and may the force be with you
Snix gratz on putting a wounded animal out of its misery
and here was me thinking pvp was too fast =p lol . my galaxy feels like its made off paper not a majestic highly armoured and shielded war horse perceptions are strange things huh
and here was me thinking pvp was too fast =p lol . my galaxy feels like its made off paper not a majestic highly armoured and shielded war horse perceptions are strange things huh
Look into BO skills that give resists, and spec accordingly
I remember PvP in the days of old.......I was knee high to a june bug. Had to walk all the way to whistlers drug store a clear mile to get me some frosted barley pop and my daily PvP. Twas the only store that sold them ya know.
Now I gotta wait for my PvP delivery like I go to my local DMV for my afternoon long line naps......yep just prop myself up on my walker and take a snooze......eventually I'll be next.
Yes sir, them was the good ole days. PvP was simple back then...........now its only delivery.......and for some reason it smells like ben TRIBBLE and cheese doddles.
Its been nigh on 6 rods to a hogs cooter sice I had me some good ole PvP.
Back in the day....when I was young........PvP all around me there was.
Do you mean when you (and me) as science/science were actually useful (having skills that did something other than Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst) or when we were popped in 0.003 seconds by a single shot by an escort?
its not really easy to describe all the changes, as there were alot, good and bad.
i´ll try to list a few issues:
-offensive science powers got nerfed into oblivion.
-generally nerfs went way too far.
-for example scatter and ram were the only burst damage left in 1.2, both were taken out, but healing stayed the same.
-sure sometimes you popped fast, but mostly it was your own fault. so i didn´t have a problem with that, especially since there is no death penalty.
-RSP once had a counter called target subsystem, which was also nerfed into the ground by introducing 2 widely used simple counters, although there were lots of methods to deal with it...
-SNB change was ok, but it is still the most powerful ability in the game just because of the buff-strip, why have it increas cooldowns.
-VM change was ok, but went too far, also there was a simple counter, science team, they could have just made that more effective to always work against it.
-FBP change was good that it affectede cannons too and didn´t go directly to the hull, but then again they overdid it by reducing the returned damage too much.
-Tykens Rift got nerfed way too much, the effect was short enough anyway.
-Jam Sensor, Scramble nerfs were o.k.
-crit nerf was good, along with antiproton nerf.
-shield resistance nerf was needed.
-healing cruisers are nearly impossible to take down, even if focus fired. in 1.2 already cruisers were near impossible to take down if you didn´t chain ram them. now its just LOL.
-Ram change was good though, but if you take away that, give something else back in return.
this list could go on and on...
maybe my perception on some of these things is wrong, but the mass of changes generally was done in an amateurish way in my opinion. cryptic´s devs listened to the wrong people, as stated by some good players in this thread. and now we have a boring "dumbed-down" pvp, and people are still whining that they pop fast, omg...
"dumb-down" pvp even more, and you´ll really see a mass exodus of every sane player left. then the whiners can shoot at themselves with weapons and skills that don´t have any effect.
Bounty isn't it funny that exactly what I said 2 months ago has come true?
We (dob) warned the whole community in 1.q thatr things were getting bad and the slowing of combat was the worst thing then we said a warning to all when we were testing 1.qq and the general community thought we were just doomsayers........
2 months later as I watch the titanic continue to take on water and continue to sink by loosing more and more active players and continue to bork up ques and slow combat we (dob) often sit in vent and laugh at the "real pvpers" that continue to stand on the edge of the bow looking down into the cold dark abyss that awaits them as tbe ship heads in the only direction that this captain (craptic) can take it.........at least this titanic has no problem charging its doomed passengers extra for different colored lifevests and lifeboats with cloak.
Funny thing is, where were all these people begging for "fast-paced" PvP when the entire STO community was getting worked by two or three fleets in mere seconds? Where were all these players longing for hardcore PvP when they were getting insta-popped by BTS:S? Where were all these PvP'ers who are now begging for the "good old days" hiding when the forums cried for nerfs, power changes, lack of balance, and calls of "exploiter" or "hacker" or "cheater" echoed from these pages?
As dysfunctional and incomprehensible as Cryptic's actions have been over the last three months it is little more than a mirror of the complete hypocrisy and schizophrenic dysplasia of the fanbase. I can scroll up and see the names of multiple individuals who were QQ'ing, and QQ'ing quite loudly back in the "good old days," and are now /signing this thread like it's all good. Sad, just sad....:rolleyes:
No, I don't really. I wasn't around then much - partially because it was just too fast paced in the first place!
It's not perfect now. I still think that the extremes between damage, basic hit points and healing are off. I don't necessarily expect other people to outlast my Escort when I pop all my buffs and they use only one or two skills, but I don't expect this too happen in one alpha strike, either. It could take a little longer (provided I can also last a little longer when I return for my second assault.)
Likewise, I would like to see my shields in a cruiser or science ships to know more states during an average attack then full or 0 %.
Bounty I think a few of the real ife issues plays out here. I said it when we first broght DOb to STO.......this game will have LOTS of first time MMO players and "older" gamers that love the IP. Those players will make for an interesting game. Well it sure did, it made for all the cries of nerf and hackers that you saw on the forums. The Older gamers could NEVER comprehend how to counter TSS even when we released a video of how to do it and shows multiple fraps games between us and 31 where both teams were beating the hell out of each other and none of us had shields up.
I can not count how many times I said "ULTIME is headed back in I got TSS1" reyph said " I got TSS 3" and then did Ultime go POP..........**** no he didn't he was smart he ran off or got healed from his whole team. You are right about a few things though bounty it is FUNNY as hell to see the very same care bears in this thread supporting the old fast paced PVP w2hen they were some of the loudest ignorant mouths crying for slower PVP and thinking we were the *******s for telling them to L2P.
Well I am glad to see that the players that suck got their way, now they can sit in it. DOB, section 31, coffee crew and a few other rare teams got to enjoy the best PVP STO had to offer in its first 3 months as a game. Science had a very good role as crowd controller (watch our early fraps vids and count how many time sI say " I got him VM-ed or he is SNBed." we did that to section 31 guess what they didn't always insta-pop either they knew how to play) cruisers were the healers......and escorts as muchy as people thought "they 1 shot me"; NO THEY DIDN'T it seemed that way because its called burst DPS and that is the job of escorts had you had hull resist and heals on you then you would have been fine but instead you were the galaxies "Captain Kirk" and that amazing lack of skill brought you to the forums to cry about the game.
Bounty I told you last night, I do not know how you still play this game. But the YOUTUBE vid in yoru comment is EPIC
100% agree... I used to get a rush from PvP before they ****ed it up. LIke i literally used to have those full body tremors only adrenaline produces. Now it's meh.
in Closed Beta PVP was fast paced and exciting, and that was fun. It was nice to see combat that wasnt the same boring TRIBBLE from every other mmo. But every change since then seems to go in the direction of long drawn out boring fighting.
Funny thing is, where were all these people begging for "fast-paced" PvP when the entire STO community was getting worked by two or three fleets in mere seconds? Where were all these players longing for hardcore PvP when they were getting insta-popped by BTS:S? Where were all these PvP'ers who are now begging for the "good old days" hiding when the forums cried for nerfs, power changes, lack of balance, and calls of "exploiter" or "hacker" or "cheater" echoed from these pages?
As dysfunctional and incomprehensible as Cryptic's actions have been over the last three months it is little more than a mirror of the complete hypocrisy and schizophrenic dysplasia of the fanbase. I can scroll up and see the names of multiple individuals who were QQ'ing, and QQ'ing quite loudly back in the "good old days," and are now /signing this thread like it's all good. Sad, just sad....:rolleyes:
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
Coming from a GW background, spikes have always been slow in this game. After all, whats 2 seconds to catch when you're used to catching spikes in .5 seconds (ya, not joking on that either). In 1.0 though, 90% of actual deaths came from the healing skills being on cooldown. In 1.2 deaths came from neglect or withstanding pressure too long. In 2.0 deaths come from boredom or being asleep at the wheel.
Largely though, combat has turned into a slog with a canyon of difference between popping fast and dying of old age. Pressure from actual damage has dipped to an almost alltime low against people that know what they are doing. Burst is still lethal, but needs to be very fast & potent or accompanied by an snb to actually be effective.
Yeah. I'm probably in the crowd that believes the game played better at the beginning of the Open Beta. From my perspective, it hasn't been as good ever since. The January 16th patch was pretty much the beginning of when things started to snowball PvE/PvP-wise IMO.
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
.
Trith be told faithborn when you examine the changes to gameplay from 1.0-1.2 it is easy to see very little changes until the end of 1.2.
1.0 was fast and fairly balanced with each ship and captain having a role to play, this was the pinacle of the STO population as well. By 1.1 the science nerfs were coming in hard adn fast, the spike in DPS was there from esocrts but the heals from cruisers and shield heals from science were easily there to keep people alive. TSS was easily countered by the end of 1.1 from people that actually listened to the good players that showed many times over how to deal with it. There were many complainers about the skill but those were the very same people that were using it at every turn they could. the redo of FBP / SNB / VM made science a truely gimped CC class but made science in a escort really deadly.
What happened.......CRIES of nerf the new SNB just as I said weeks before it happened, would happen. Then in 1.2 we tested it extensivelyt on tribble throughout its different variations we said "hey all this is not a good thing it will dumb down the game" well guess what it did and low and behold the gameplay was slowed down and dumbed down even further but at least each ship and captain had a roile still.........2.0 hits and it was the nail in the coffin for many people sadly some of us prepaid thiniking the game would remain fun.
I can recall on many occasions that peopel woudl send me tell including one forum messiah that said to me "If 1.2 goes live the way it is I am quitting" now this was when that person was banned from the forums for flaming peoples ideas but guess what the patch went live and that person still plays
My only real question is how many people truely believe that cryptic will be able to instal all its "new features" that they promise without major issues and problems?
the STO community is like a starved dog, they have been thrown bones without any meat on them for soo long that when they see the master get ready to thow a new bone they think will be full of meat and goodness....they get another stripped down bone with bugs in it and a sour taste after trying it. Do they dig out of the yard? Noooooo, they wait for the master to say "don't worry old boy. i got a new bone cooking and after i strip it of any real meaningful nourishment you can have the left overs".
on the upside only a few more months of forum posting left for me LOL,
I can recall on many occasions that peopel woudl send me tell including one forum messiah that said to me "If 1.2 goes live the way it is I am quitting" now this was when that person was banned from the forums for flaming peoples ideas but guess what the patch went live and that person still plays
Keep in mind that the context of that message was in regards to having to wait 30-45 seconds between skills (that got changed), next to no difference between cannon and beam damage (that got changed), waiting ages between active combat moments (that got changed), and spikes being impossible to actually pull off (that got changed). So while 1.2 did go live, it wasn't the same patch that I said was ********.
Each patch had it's defining rebalances, each of the balance patches addressed something that rose to prominance in the metagame in the previous patch version.
1.0 - start of the game
1.1 - big 3
1.2 - tss, spikes, skill cooldowns
2.0 - csv, shield resistances.
And discussing moderation of other players is against the forum rules (as well as a fairly desperate maneuver). Keep smiling with poisoned lips though.
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
Although I agree with you that different people have different perceptions about this game, the fact that Rev, Zorbazz, MacGyver, Steppen Razor, Matteo, and I all specifically reference closed Beta, open Beta, or launch game mechanics as the "good old days" in this thread pretty much tells you where the playerbase feels the truly fast-paced action and "wild west" type fun took place...whether or not they liked it or were any good at it. Those were the days of wide-open gameplay, frenetic action, hectic healing and counter strategy implementation, and excellent fleet rivalries which were compelling and drama-filled. Way too many good players and fleets gone from those days and STO is weaker for it...
You have to remember that for a large part of Beta and release gameplay, the mechanics were essentially the same as was the style of play. Once the extensive forum QQ began and the DEV's began the desperate scramble to salvage subscribers, the PvP downturn began. Although Season 1.0 wasn't the NGE-style disaster some predicted when you look at the last few months as what it really is...a prolonged set of sweeping changes every few weeks...then you can see that playing today is NGE-type distant than playing back in February. When you look at Seasons 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, and beyond as small parts of the apparently incomprehensible and deluded PvP vision Snix has for STO, you have to wonder how bad its going to get...
Largely though, combat has turned into a slog with a canyon of difference between popping fast and dying of old age. Pressure from actual damage has dipped to an almost alltime low against people that know what they are doing. Burst is still lethal, but needs to be very fast & potent or accompanied by an snb to actually be effective.
Agreed, combat is painfully slow as it is either total domination by organized fleets against PUG's or two good teams fighting it out in a never ending cycle of "burst--heal thru burst--wait for powers to recharge again--burst--heal thru burst--wash/rinse/repeat."
Although I agree with you that different people have different perceptions about this game, the fact that Rev, Zorbazz, MacGyver, Steppen Razor, Matteo, and I all specifically reference closed Beta, open Beta, or launch game mechanics as the "good old days" in this thread pretty much tells you where the playerbase feels the truly fast-paced action and "wild west" type fun took place...whether or not they liked it or were any good at it. Those were the days of wide-open gameplay, frenetic action, hectic healing and counter strategy implementation, and excellent fleet rivalries which were compelling and drama-filled. Way too many good players and fleets gone from those days and STO is weaker for it...
I agree, and would like to add that pvp in 1.0 (between premades) was also significantly more coordinated. Ventrilo channels almost never went silent during a good premade vs premade, they were filled with "watch this guy" or "they're about to spike" or "I spiked on %&@#" (ok that last one was from GW, ).
Now if you look at it, you have 2-3 big fleets that dominate over the other fleets and about a dozen smaller ones - instead of the 6-7 medium sized fleets of 1.0 and 1.1 era. Those 2-3 fleets have swollen in size and crowded out alot of the smaller fleets from the best of players (yes, I realize this may sound hypocritical...bear with me on it) which can make it pretty tough to get your feet of the ground when your a smaller fleet. .TSI. has grown from a small, 7 man fleet to a 29 man fleet (although, only about 20 of them are probably still subscribed). Now TSI regularly skirmishes against itself rather than other players and fleet-vs-fleet is few and far in between.
But whenever I actually think about many old faces are gone, I get depressed.
You have to remember that for a large part of Beta and release gameplay, the mechanics were essentially the same as was the style of play. Once the extensive forum QQ began and the DEV's began the desperate scramble to salvage subscribers, the PvP downturn began. Although Season 1.0 wasn't the NGE-style disaster some predicted when you look at the last few months as what it really is...a prolonged set of sweeping changes every few weeks...then you can see that playing today is NGE-type distant than playing back in February. When you look at Seasons 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, and beyond as small parts of the apparently incomprehensible and deluded PvP vision Snix has for STO, you have to wonder how bad its going to get...
I personally think that Snix has done very well with balance, within the requirements given to him. If the higher up says to slow down pvp, he doesn't have a choice and has to slow it down in such a way that doesn't break the game.
Agreed, combat is painfully slow as it is either total domination by organized fleets against PUG's or two good teams fighting it out in a never ending cycle of "burst--heal thru burst--wait for powers to recharge again--burst--heal thru burst--wash/rinse/repeat."
The only part about 1.1 that I didn't like was that my heals were always on cooldown when someone spiked. Other than that I liked it.
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both, but not exactly the same as the latter.
pvp mechanics:
PvP balance:
Aside from the Q issues I don't think balance is that bad. That may change of course if I could get into some matchs. Fix the q then I'll edit.
It was called Season 1.0 my friend and it exited stage left a long time ago. I know I've brought it up in dozens of posts across dozens of topics but it is the single most telling quote I've ever heard from a DEV before or since.
When I asked Snix why he wasn't soliciting high-end PvP input or feedback while redesigning all the powers prior to Season 1.2 and why they felt the need to "dumb down" the PvP game to the lowest common denominator so that weak players could be artificially propped up against the elite players his response was:
"To be honest, the average player in STO isn't comfortable with nor can they compete at the pace of combat you are accustomed to." - Snix
If that doesn't say it all right there, I don't know what does. The fast-pace of combat we saw in Beta and the first month of release will never make a comeback. The average and sub-par player has QQ'ed the DEV team into countless nerfs, gameplay mechanic alterations, and so-called "balance changes" to appease them. It's like opening Pandora's Box...there's no way to stuff all this TRIBBLE that's been let out back into it again.
We (dob) warned the whole community in 1.q thatr things were getting bad and the slowing of combat was the worst thing then we said a warning to all when we were testing 1.qq and the general community thought we were just doomsayers........
2 months later as I watch the titanic continue to take on water and continue to sink by loosing more and more active players and continue to bork up ques and slow combat we (dob) often sit in vent and laugh at the "real pvpers" that continue to stand on the edge of the bow looking down into the cold dark abyss that awaits them as tbe ship heads in the only direction that this captain (craptic) can take it.........at least this titanic has no problem charging its doomed passengers extra for different colored lifevests and lifeboats with cloak.
All games have lifespans...ups and downs of popularity but it is RARE that a game that loses over 90% of its population in the first 4 months after setrting sail stays alive for long. I've played lots of mmos and ihave learned when to jump ship and at least salvage my game time since I had already lost my cash investment.
To those that continue to have faith in this game as a viable option good luck and may the force be with you
Snix gratz on putting a wounded animal out of its misery
Look into BO skills that give resists, and spec accordingly
Now I gotta wait for my PvP delivery like I go to my local DMV for my afternoon long line naps......yep just prop myself up on my walker and take a snooze......eventually I'll be next.
Yes sir, them was the good ole days. PvP was simple back then...........now its only delivery.......and for some reason it smells like ben TRIBBLE and cheese doddles.
Its been nigh on 6 rods to a hogs cooter sice I had me some good ole PvP.
Back in the day....when I was young........PvP all around me there was.
-Ok I'll stop Im layin it on kinda thick.
Do you mean when you (and me) as science/science were actually useful (having skills that did something other than Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst) or when we were popped in 0.003 seconds by a single shot by an escort?
I'd say there's quite a difference...
i´ll try to list a few issues:
-offensive science powers got nerfed into oblivion.
-generally nerfs went way too far.
-for example scatter and ram were the only burst damage left in 1.2, both were taken out, but healing stayed the same.
-sure sometimes you popped fast, but mostly it was your own fault. so i didn´t have a problem with that, especially since there is no death penalty.
-RSP once had a counter called target subsystem, which was also nerfed into the ground by introducing 2 widely used simple counters, although there were lots of methods to deal with it...
-SNB change was ok, but it is still the most powerful ability in the game just because of the buff-strip, why have it increas cooldowns.
-VM change was ok, but went too far, also there was a simple counter, science team, they could have just made that more effective to always work against it.
-FBP change was good that it affectede cannons too and didn´t go directly to the hull, but then again they overdid it by reducing the returned damage too much.
-Tykens Rift got nerfed way too much, the effect was short enough anyway.
-Jam Sensor, Scramble nerfs were o.k.
-crit nerf was good, along with antiproton nerf.
-shield resistance nerf was needed.
-healing cruisers are nearly impossible to take down, even if focus fired. in 1.2 already cruisers were near impossible to take down if you didn´t chain ram them. now its just LOL.
-Ram change was good though, but if you take away that, give something else back in return.
this list could go on and on...
maybe my perception on some of these things is wrong, but the mass of changes generally was done in an amateurish way in my opinion. cryptic´s devs listened to the wrong people, as stated by some good players in this thread. and now we have a boring "dumbed-down" pvp, and people are still whining that they pop fast, omg...
"dumb-down" pvp even more, and you´ll really see a mass exodus of every sane player left. then the whiners can shoot at themselves with weapons and skills that don´t have any effect.
Funny thing is, where were all these people begging for "fast-paced" PvP when the entire STO community was getting worked by two or three fleets in mere seconds? Where were all these players longing for hardcore PvP when they were getting insta-popped by BTS:S? Where were all these PvP'ers who are now begging for the "good old days" hiding when the forums cried for nerfs, power changes, lack of balance, and calls of "exploiter" or "hacker" or "cheater" echoed from these pages?
As dysfunctional and incomprehensible as Cryptic's actions have been over the last three months it is little more than a mirror of the complete hypocrisy and schizophrenic dysplasia of the fanbase. I can scroll up and see the names of multiple individuals who were QQ'ing, and QQ'ing quite loudly back in the "good old days," and are now /signing this thread like it's all good. Sad, just sad....:rolleyes:
Balance is done to perfection in those tiers.
It's not perfect now. I still think that the extremes between damage, basic hit points and healing are off. I don't necessarily expect other people to outlast my Escort when I pop all my buffs and they use only one or two skills, but I don't expect this too happen in one alpha strike, either. It could take a little longer (provided I can also last a little longer when I return for my second assault.)
Likewise, I would like to see my shields in a cruiser or science ships to know more states during an average attack then full or 0 %.
I can not count how many times I said "ULTIME is headed back in I got TSS1" reyph said " I got TSS 3" and then did Ultime go POP..........**** no he didn't he was smart he ran off or got healed from his whole team. You are right about a few things though bounty it is FUNNY as hell to see the very same care bears in this thread supporting the old fast paced PVP w2hen they were some of the loudest ignorant mouths crying for slower PVP and thinking we were the *******s for telling them to L2P.
Well I am glad to see that the players that suck got their way, now they can sit in it. DOB, section 31, coffee crew and a few other rare teams got to enjoy the best PVP STO had to offer in its first 3 months as a game. Science had a very good role as crowd controller (watch our early fraps vids and count how many time sI say " I got him VM-ed or he is SNBed." we did that to section 31 guess what they didn't always insta-pop either they knew how to play) cruisers were the healers......and escorts as muchy as people thought "they 1 shot me"; NO THEY DIDN'T it seemed that way because its called burst DPS and that is the job of escorts had you had hull resist and heals on you then you would have been fine but instead you were the galaxies "Captain Kirk" and that amazing lack of skill brought you to the forums to cry about the game.
Bounty I told you last night, I do not know how you still play this game. But the YOUTUBE vid in yoru comment is EPIC
/Agreed
in Closed Beta PVP was fast paced and exciting, and that was fun. It was nice to see combat that wasnt the same boring TRIBBLE from every other mmo. But every change since then seems to go in the direction of long drawn out boring fighting.
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
Coming from a GW background, spikes have always been slow in this game. After all, whats 2 seconds to catch when you're used to catching spikes in .5 seconds (ya, not joking on that either). In 1.0 though, 90% of actual deaths came from the healing skills being on cooldown. In 1.2 deaths came from neglect or withstanding pressure too long. In 2.0 deaths come from boredom or being asleep at the wheel.
Largely though, combat has turned into a slog with a canyon of difference between popping fast and dying of old age. Pressure from actual damage has dipped to an almost alltime low against people that know what they are doing. Burst is still lethal, but needs to be very fast & potent or accompanied by an snb to actually be effective.
No, but then I came into PvP rather late.
Trith be told faithborn when you examine the changes to gameplay from 1.0-1.2 it is easy to see very little changes until the end of 1.2.
1.0 was fast and fairly balanced with each ship and captain having a role to play, this was the pinacle of the STO population as well. By 1.1 the science nerfs were coming in hard adn fast, the spike in DPS was there from esocrts but the heals from cruisers and shield heals from science were easily there to keep people alive. TSS was easily countered by the end of 1.1 from people that actually listened to the good players that showed many times over how to deal with it. There were many complainers about the skill but those were the very same people that were using it at every turn they could. the redo of FBP / SNB / VM made science a truely gimped CC class but made science in a escort really deadly.
What happened.......CRIES of nerf the new SNB just as I said weeks before it happened, would happen. Then in 1.2 we tested it extensivelyt on tribble throughout its different variations we said "hey all this is not a good thing it will dumb down the game" well guess what it did and low and behold the gameplay was slowed down and dumbed down even further but at least each ship and captain had a roile still.........2.0 hits and it was the nail in the coffin for many people sadly some of us prepaid thiniking the game would remain fun.
I can recall on many occasions that peopel woudl send me tell including one forum messiah that said to me "If 1.2 goes live the way it is I am quitting" now this was when that person was banned from the forums for flaming peoples ideas but guess what the patch went live and that person still plays
My only real question is how many people truely believe that cryptic will be able to instal all its "new features" that they promise without major issues and problems?
the STO community is like a starved dog, they have been thrown bones without any meat on them for soo long that when they see the master get ready to thow a new bone they think will be full of meat and goodness....they get another stripped down bone with bugs in it and a sour taste after trying it. Do they dig out of the yard? Noooooo, they wait for the master to say "don't worry old boy. i got a new bone cooking and after i strip it of any real meaningful nourishment you can have the left overs".
on the upside only a few more months of forum posting left for me LOL,
Keep in mind that the context of that message was in regards to having to wait 30-45 seconds between skills (that got changed), next to no difference between cannon and beam damage (that got changed), waiting ages between active combat moments (that got changed), and spikes being impossible to actually pull off (that got changed). So while 1.2 did go live, it wasn't the same patch that I said was ********.
Each patch had it's defining rebalances, each of the balance patches addressed something that rose to prominance in the metagame in the previous patch version.
1.0 - start of the game
1.1 - big 3
1.2 - tss, spikes, skill cooldowns
2.0 - csv, shield resistances.
And discussing moderation of other players is against the forum rules (as well as a fairly desperate maneuver). Keep smiling with poisoned lips though.
Although I agree with you that different people have different perceptions about this game, the fact that Rev, Zorbazz, MacGyver, Steppen Razor, Matteo, and I all specifically reference closed Beta, open Beta, or launch game mechanics as the "good old days" in this thread pretty much tells you where the playerbase feels the truly fast-paced action and "wild west" type fun took place...whether or not they liked it or were any good at it. Those were the days of wide-open gameplay, frenetic action, hectic healing and counter strategy implementation, and excellent fleet rivalries which were compelling and drama-filled. Way too many good players and fleets gone from those days and STO is weaker for it...
You have to remember that for a large part of Beta and release gameplay, the mechanics were essentially the same as was the style of play. Once the extensive forum QQ began and the DEV's began the desperate scramble to salvage subscribers, the PvP downturn began. Although Season 1.0 wasn't the NGE-style disaster some predicted when you look at the last few months as what it really is...a prolonged set of sweeping changes every few weeks...then you can see that playing today is NGE-type distant than playing back in February. When you look at Seasons 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, and beyond as small parts of the apparently incomprehensible and deluded PvP vision Snix has for STO, you have to wonder how bad its going to get...
Agreed, combat is painfully slow as it is either total domination by organized fleets against PUG's or two good teams fighting it out in a never ending cycle of "burst--heal thru burst--wait for powers to recharge again--burst--heal thru burst--wash/rinse/repeat."
I agree, and would like to add that pvp in 1.0 (between premades) was also significantly more coordinated. Ventrilo channels almost never went silent during a good premade vs premade, they were filled with "watch this guy" or "they're about to spike" or "I spiked on %&@#" (ok that last one was from GW,
Now if you look at it, you have 2-3 big fleets that dominate over the other fleets and about a dozen smaller ones - instead of the 6-7 medium sized fleets of 1.0 and 1.1 era. Those 2-3 fleets have swollen in size and crowded out alot of the smaller fleets from the best of players (yes, I realize this may sound hypocritical...bear with me on it) which can make it pretty tough to get your feet of the ground when your a smaller fleet. .TSI. has grown from a small, 7 man fleet to a 29 man fleet (although, only about 20 of them are probably still subscribed). Now TSI regularly skirmishes against itself rather than other players and fleet-vs-fleet is few and far in between.
But whenever I actually think about many old faces are gone, I get depressed.
I personally think that Snix has done very well with balance, within the requirements given to him. If the higher up says to slow down pvp, he doesn't have a choice and has to slow it down in such a way that doesn't break the game.
The only part about 1.1 that I didn't like was that my heals were always on cooldown when someone spiked. Other than that I liked it.