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Feedback: Latest Ship Flight Mechanics are a Mistake

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited August 2010 in Controls and User Interface
Hey Dev team,

I am a lifetime player, and I love STO.

I am one of few players up to my elbows in playtesting/exploring/documenting gameplay mechanics.

So I might possibly know those mechanics better than the developers, who don't work on the engine mechanics.

So here's the deal.

You all have not implemented half of the engine mechanics. Auxillary power never boosted turn speed, combat, regular, and hyper impulse drives had no appreciable differences. Starship command skills do not modulate turning rate despite the skill description saying so.

I don't mind all this because the game is fun and playable.

In the past several patch cycles, you have been monkeying around with the ship "flight" mechanics in the galactic map. I thought all the changes were great.

1) 4 weeks ago, ship flight mechanics in the galactic map were the same as in the instanced maps with the exception that power efficiency bonuses were not applied to power levels, making galactic turning a little more laborious. Still, probably only I noticed. This was an improvement over the previous system, which I don't understand how it is different. This change was not documented in the notes.

2) In the patch two weeks ago, it was set that all ships (as best I could tell) had very good agility in the galactic map, turning quickly. Even Cruisers could turn quickly. This seems to make sense because at warp, you would set a direction and go there. I.e. interstellar travel is fast and efficient. What a blessing. This change was not documented in the notes.

3) In the Season 2 patch, all ships are now set to turn more slowly based on the impulse slider (0% - 100%), the higher, the slower the turn speed.

So here's the skinny fellas. Now flying my escort class ship is like trying to navigate a floating TRIBBLE in my toilet by whacking it with a stick. Turning in the map is now punitive, nearly unplayable.

This change is terrible and I am very upset. Outraged even. Slowing us down in the galactic map serves no purpose other than to annoy us, and specifically me. >< I went from 32.7 degrees/s to 7.7 degrees/s. WTF

I look forward to collaborating in the future.

This is the first time in 8 months a change has got me upset. I am a patient, easy going guy. This one is terrible. Please reconsider.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I can definitely relate with the opening poster's impressions.

    I dislike how I have to learn to fly one way in system space, and must learn to fly another way in Sector Space. I would much rather see some consistency between the two, so that my ship handles like... my ship, really.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Considering we are at warp in sector space and impulse/thrusters in systems it makes sense to have them handle differently.

    Ships at warp do not change direction quickly... However, they do need to make it so that at zero speed the ships turn quickly at least in sector space so it is easier to navigate. (and doesnt effect combat balance since it is a non combat area)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    My retrofit Intrepid needs the whole map in a cluster to turn. Funny though, because if i turn of my engine i turn immediately. Very annoying. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zakoriz wrote:
    Considering we are at warp in sector space and impulse/thrusters in systems it makes sense to have them handle differently.

    Ships at warp do not change direction quickly... However, they do need to make it so that at zero speed the ships turn quickly at least in sector space so it is easier to navigate. (and doesnt effect combat balance since it is a non combat area)

    I appreciate your perspective that a difference could be expected.

    However, your argument also implies a realistic experience versus the reality established in the show.
    In the show, interstellar travel is slow. 2 light years cannot be crossed in 10 seconds.
    Furthermore, navigation with warp is done by setting a destination and trajector outside of warp, then engaging warp engines and going there quickly. I.e. there is no turning during warp travel.

    Since the game implements interstellar travel differently to keep us traveling quickly and thus the game fun... the only standard we have left to judge this navigation system is by what is fun. Well, not being able to turn in an agile ship is not fun. Nor efficient.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    the trick is to do a full stop at full propulsion with a fully steering to one direction.
    try it. it works...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_G220HfF5E

    not just with cars,... with my sovereign, too.

    in system maps: Full impulse + backpedal + fully right/left steering
    in sector maps: just back + steering in the opposite direction + then full impule.

    however. why do we have to fly with full impulse in sector maps? why can't we set the course first and then order "warp 9... ENGAGE!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I agree with the original poster: the new subspace flight mechanics are annoying. Now in order to maneuver in subspace I have to full-stop, rotate the ship, then engage engines again.

    Perhaps the Devs were trying to make warp/sub-space flight more realistic? But this is a game, so there are trade-offs between realism and playability. This arbitrary change by the devs to add realism has not improved the gaming experience for me.

    I don't remember seeing any threads about thousands of players demanding their ships turn slower in subspace? And being able to maneuver nimbly in sub-space wasn't breaking anyone else's playing experience.

    Perhaps nerfing healing abilities will be next? "I'm sorry, but using nanites to heal those plasma burns will take 8 hours of gaming-time, in order to make things more realistic. Play some Dabo while you wait for the skin to regenerate".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Thanks everyone for supporting with your messages.

    @Mindvampire: I understand you can turn at full stop, however, it is still about 60% of my turn rate in instances, and 55% of what is was before Season 2.

    @Squaddie: As far as I know, from the release notes, the increased speed in galactic map from last patch lead to cruisers doing "Kick sliding", i.e. the would slide out of the turn as they turned. This is because increased turning + big inertia = kick sliding. So the developers implemented this new system as a quick fix for the graphical anomaly of Kick sliding...

    One wonders why Star Trek ships have appreciable inertia at all, since they have inertial dampeners. Furthermore, if the inertia is breaking the system, why not adjust inertia mechanics or the inertia mechanics in galactic flight only? I.e. address the root of the problem instead of a global nerf.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I Must Also Agree With the OP that is almost very laboring to play in sector space now, its not fun anymore to wait FOREVER to turn your ship around, i think if this changed was removed alot of people would be much happier including myself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Absolutely right. The new sector turn rate is bothersome and as much needed as toothache. And there is no realism in that, just plain annoyance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I fully agree with the OP.

    I think Cryptics employees are starting to get confused at the scale of their own sector space maps and ships.

    These tiny shoeboxes that we fly our comparitively massively scaled ships across in minutes are actually days worth of travel in the shows, this should mean that turning should be as high or even a higher rate in sector space for ALL ships since both time and scale are being dialled down from what is actually happening. A course correction that might take a few minutes in the shows and possibly even a drop out of and back into warp is such a tiny thing when seen in the scale of sector space that it shouldn't be a factor at all.

    I have no idea what it is they were trying for with this change, but if it was to annoy me they sure succeeded.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    The Devs said they changed it to reduce Drifting in sectorspace, as a Cruiser i was drifting like a 350z in Tokyo Drift.
    So yeah it feals more like flying now, but it is harder to turn.
    Actually it is kind of annoying to have to steer towards an Anomaly inside Exploration Clusters.
    Otherwise it is no problem if you just use the auto pilot in the normal Sector Blocks.

    With any luck we will get a diffrent Exploration System soon (Season 3? Season 4?) anyway and then this problem may solve itself. At least dStahl teased us with it a few times now, so thats just a question of time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I like the new changes. A few points:

    1) Turn rate in sector space is tied to your velocity; I have pretty good results when I cut my speed to 1/2 while I turn, and then back up to full once the turn is complete.

    2) For those who say that in canon you can't turn at all while at warp: I know this is stated in dialogue here and there, but there's also plenty of evidence that it's possible to maneuver a ship at warp. This one's a draw, at best.

    3) Don't you use autopilot in sector space? If so, this should only be really relevant in the star clusters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yeah this new change, especially in star clusters, really sucks.
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