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Ok Fed v Fed PvP ruined... all PvP ruined!!!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited August 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Vice admiral "Fed v Fed PvP" = Epic fail there are only idiots whit Defiant's & Galaxy x in their.
Cryptic you better give every ship cloak because this blows big time !!!

Federation is @ war whit everyone, so why should we stick to old treaties that Federation isn't allowed to have develop a cloak especially know that their are 2 fed ships whit cloak it's all out the window I get ganged in PvP "Fed v fed" or "fed v Kling" Doesn't matter making my dear old Prometheus worthless because of everyone one else flying cloak
>>>Make cloak a Device like a Battery!!!<<<
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Give it a few days for the Oh shiny new thing people to get over it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    It is kind of depressing how many people are flying around in the Gal-X though. Most of them suck too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I know, most people can't even spec right for their ships needs.

    I know give it a few days but I don't think this is a problem that is going away any time soon I want a descent fights not a gang-bang.

    & Yeah, again "MAKE CLOAK A DEVICE PROBLEM SOLVED!!!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I reckon we're going to see a counter when the Nebula turns up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    People will settle into their final ships as soon as we stop getting ships. After the Nebula and Excelsior I think we'll see people start drifting back to older models of the same tier. But yeah, so far there's a ton of Retrofits and almost nothing else. Some Sovereigns but the Cryptic designs are being abandoned.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    pvp is good. the klingons actually have competion and arent dominate. oh well. you want pve content know you aint dominante in pvp. deal with it. better yet come into pvp que. i want to kill klingon. lol:) the feds cant use cloak in battle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hehe, I thought that this would happen as soon as Cryptic gave out mor cloak to the Federation.
    I'm not surprized that everybody is lying in wait cloaked now in PvP. At least on the lon run there will be no PvP with the que system and the imbalances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The gal-x is a bit of a big slow target in PVP atm. I plan on still using my sovvy at Vice Admiral PVP. so I shall see you when I get there. I think the assault cruiser is perfect the way it is, I do not see a cloaking device changing that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    scorpiobe wrote: »
    Vice admiral "Fed v Fed PvP" = Epic fail there are only idiots whit Defiant's & Galaxy x in their.
    Cryptic you better give every ship cloak because this blows big time !!!

    Federation is @ war whit everyone, so why should we stick to old treaties that Federation isn't allowed to have develop a cloak especially know that their are 2 fed ships whit cloak it's all out the window I get ganged in PvP "Fed v fed" or "fed v Kling" Doesn't matter making my dear old Prometheus worthless because of everyone one else flying cloak
    >>>Make cloak a Device like a Battery!!!<<<

    this is a perfect example why I dont PvP..... in any game let alone this one.

    a little self-control and respect goes a long way....and the PvP crowd always seems to have none. (will never activate open-teaming for the same reason). Against their "own kind" is nearly worse than the opposition !!?!?! .. go figure.

    ...gamer attitudes are shameful at best...throw PvP in the mix, it gets downright abhorrent.

    .


    .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Um.. Its not pvp, its the players who insisted on the cloak as a balancer between the Federation and the Klingons. Several threads about what the OP describes have flown around the forums for a while now on how it wasn't the cloaks that gave the KLingons an edge in pvp, but in fact was just the skill of the average Klinks versus the skill of the average Fed.
    I guess they were right, it wasn't the cloak - but how well one plays that was the factor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I see pleanty of people flying there RA ships in PvP. The que is just messed up
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pogmahone wrote:
    I see pleanty of people flying there RA ships in PvP. The que is just messed up

    RA and VA ships are both T5.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    this is a perfect example why I dont PvP..... in any game let alone this one.

    a little self-control and respect goes a long way....and the PvP crowd always seems to have none. (will never activate open-teaming for the same reason). Against their "own kind" is nearly worse than the opposition !!?!?! .. go figure.

    ...gamer attitudes are shameful at best...throw PvP in the mix, it gets downright abhorrent.

    .


    .

    its not often i agree with Cold_gin_time_Again, but on this I do..

    PvP will never be "balanced" because PvP demands a winner.. and if it was "balanced" you couldnt win, you'd just be pew pew'ing at each other endlessly till time ran out..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Shingi wrote:
    its not often i agree with Cold_gin_time_Again, but on this I do..

    PvP will never be "balanced" because PvP demands a winner.. and if it was "balanced" you couldnt win, you'd just be pew pew'ing at each other endlessly till time ran out..

    You are right on many levels. True balance will never be possible in pvp due to differences in player skill.
    It does and will make for long games. I played in one yesterday (new BG1) that lasted over an hour and ended with a score of 85/33.

    It was awesome!!!!
    I will continue to pvp just so I can get into games that go like it did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ...gamer attitudes are shameful at best...throw PvP in the mix, it gets downright abhorrent.

    Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

    I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

    In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

    Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Um.. Its not pvp, its the players who insisted on the cloak as a balancer between the Federation and the Klingons. Several threads about what the OP describes have flown around the forums for a while now on how it wasn't the cloaks that gave the KLingons an edge in pvp, but in fact was just the skill of the average Klinks versus the skill of the average Fed.
    I guess they were right, it wasn't the cloak - but how well one plays that was the factor.

    This... when you see cruiser pop in 5 seconds... or 2 escorts trying to hammer a sci and can't take it down for several minutes till another 2 people join in....

    Though the first time i played VA pvp I was suprised by a double decloack alpha strike by two defiants... :p

    But only once.
    Trueheart wrote:
    Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

    I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

    In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

    Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.

    Just give use better cloack dedection, even with a sci ship and EPtA you can bearly dedect cloacked ships when your not in 3km range...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    As one who PvPs on both sides, I can say this from experience: It's not the cloak, it's personal ability and a willingness to work with others that will make you successful at PvP in this game. Before Season 2.0, FvK PvP below RA rank was always competitive. You had a few people who would sit on the side, but that was the exception not the rule. At RA rank, you get a lot of people who just sat there on the side because they were "only there for their daily." That's why I rarely PvP at RA rank anymore.

    But coming to the Klingons feeling superior: They are, usually, superior; but not because of their cloak. Here you have a group of players that are forced to level by PvP grinding because the alternatives are endless cluster or incursion grinds that usually gives way less rewards per time spent. When a Klingon group enters any PvP map; one of the first things you see is a team getting set up and targets being designated. On the flip side; try setting up a Federation team when you enter a PvP map and you're either ignored or insulted because you're 'spamming'.

    On the cloak: yes, it offers a nice tactical advantage; but any decent player knows how to counter it. I've been devastated by Fed teams before because they use proper cloak detection and teamwork; it's not hard, it's no mystery on how to do it. A lot of people who PvP just don't want to spend points or set skills to properly do it; but then they're the ones who sit back and QQ about how OP the cloak is. Oh well; I guess that's easier to do that than actually do something that requires a little bit of work and thinking.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    LoL.

    That is all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hornet331 wrote: »
    This... when you see cruiser pop in 5 seconds... or 2 escorts trying to hammer a sci and can't take it down for several minutes till another 2 people join in....

    Though the first time i played VA pvp I was suprised by a double decloack alpha strike by two defiants... :p

    But only once.


    Just give use better cloack dedection, even with a sci ship and EPtA you can bearly dedect cloacked ships when your not in 3km range...

    Well.. 2 escorts hammering a Sci... would surely be a quick experience :p even with the ablative giving 30 seconds, the 2-3 seconds without shields when it wears off is plenty to reduce it to space debris.. and should it manage to fire it's only RSP, it will be an absolute maximum of 1 minute survivability :D I think sci-ships deserve to last a minute :)

    Detecting cloaked ships? NO problem! In my sci ship, running 90 to Aux and no EPtoA, i can usually detect them at 7-8kms, and if i fire my Sensor Scan I can detect them at twice that distance! However, i sometimes get the feeling i'm the only science ship left in PvP...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Nah Dassem, there's 2 of us...not many more, though...can't blame anybody...is it really worth being the "fireworks service" in the match?

    I too think the cloak craze will fade with time, but I am also strongly against having a Fed cloak, especially in the flavour it is now - the Galaxy X is somewhat slow and cumbersome, but if the Defiant refit has just the same characteristics as say a Dervish class but with cloak, it might represent a problem of sort. More importantly though, what's really wrong is allowing one team to be in a situation were everybody has a cloak bar one or two - this will make the guy/lady in question "constant bait" and being ganged up infinitely - incredibly frustrating (although it might have some tactical approaches, very hard to pull off anyway).

    So, it should be either all ships with a cloaking device (klingon side) or none of them (federation).

    Also, this will exacerbate another problem that I think it mainly happens on the fed side - I don't know how many times I've been in CnH games where 1 guy in a Galaxy X spent the entire match cloaked in a corner..."just there for the dailies". Now we will also see cloaked Defiants doing that.

    There was already a problem with the builds variety in PvP (it's no mistery that a Fleet Escort with all Dual Heavy Cannons is the "easier way to go", and by a considerable margin), I guess the Defiant Retrofit will only make this worse...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Cloak detection remains a joke without sensor scan. My sci/sci been specced for maxed out sensors since launch, and its largely irrelevant in the end. It is a problem, and I'm certainly curious about the Nebula and what it can do for cloak detection.

    However, cloak is highly overrated. You can't win a match in cloak. Everyone has to drop out of it at some point. So all you have to do as the last uncloaked ship, is to be good bait.

    Sadly Feds don't have a clue how to work as a team with bait, or even just how to be bait, unless they have KDF alts that have done KVK. Of course that means most KDF don't know how to do it either. At least some will learn. It is necessary that people actually learn to do that, because cloak isn't going anywhere, and they don't seem keen on fixing cloak detection any time soon.

    And to be sure, its a much bigger problem for Feds, because the bait can be forced to be the weakest of all, the science ships, whereas the KDF has a pretty tough ship to play bait in the Vo'Quv. Of course most Feds don't understand cloak at all and will be much easier to detect than the KDF.

    Regardless, get over it and learn how to adapt to the new situation. The attitudes on the Fed side can be pretty pathetic and defeatist, because many have brainwashed themselves into thinking cloak is all that. Its not.



    And if you still can't figure out how to play without cloaking, then get MES. There is absolutely no reason to complain that you don't have cloak and everyone else does since that power has been buffed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Trueheart wrote:
    Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

    I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

    In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

    Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.

    Seriously.. I dont have any problem when fighting Klingons in my SV - I spot them at 10-15k range, the reason I lose these games are because my "team" are busy impulsing around by themselves :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Trueheart wrote:
    I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.
    Only stupid Klingons think that the BC is an advantage that puts them above others in combat. Its a tool, nothing more and is only useful if used correctly.
    I am confused by the "Infinite Invisibilty" statement though. A BC has a cooldown and can't be used over and over without waiting for the CD to cycle. The only difference in cloaks is that a BC can be used in battle, which is not bright since a klink will have no shields after cloaking - but the attacks will still be incomming.
    I also don't understand how focus firing is not teamwork related, wiether its coming out of cloak or 3 fed ships firing?

    In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.
    It is used for surprise hit-n-run attacks, both by NPC klinks ingame and living players. Cloaks have a cooldown and don't need a duration of use - as no such duration has ever been evidenced in the TV or movies when cloaks have been used. I have seen NPC's use ambush and fade attacks in game and the genre as a whole - I see no reason why it should not continue to be so for the players who use BC in combat.
    As for the hide indefinitely statement, thats the players choice to cloak and hide and should not be a game controlled parameter. Its cowardly to pull in pvp, but is the right of the player to not want to play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    These threads are getting so funny.

    The last time I qued for a FvF (was a long time ago mind you) I remember it stating it was a TRAINING excersise.
    Use it that way...

    EVERY class in the game has cloak detection skills... learn them.
    Eject Plasma
    Charged Particle Burst
    Gravity Well
    Sensor Scan

    There are also powers that prevent cloaking like Tractor Beam and Shockwave.

    NOTICE TO FED PLAYERS.... stop trying to Fill EVERY slot you have with heals and RSP copies... and slot some offensive abilitys that STOP or Limit the use of cloak.

    Also please note that once a cloak is off there is only one ship that can re engage it on you that being the bop.... SPEED you self up so that the bop driver can not find a good spot to give you the slip in and cloak.
    No bop that wants to live is going to try to cloak while they are in your strongest arc.

    Use season 2.0 FvF as the training game is should be and learn to fish for cloaks... it really isn't hard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Husanak;2903536
    No bop that wants to live is going to try to cloak while they are in your strongest arc.


    Not unless my finger slips and hits it by accident, at which point its EVM3+PH1+BFI3+Engine batt+ST2 and I'm gone.

    (hopefully):)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    this is a perfect example why I dont PvP..... in any game let alone this one.

    ...

    OR the reason you don't pvp is because you get smoked by 90% of players (in any game let alone this one). I'm just saying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I am quite content with my Retrodefiant

    It has its drawbacks... ie its waferthin when under attack, but nothing beats soloinstapopping just about everything on one attack run.

    RSP always makes me laugh, had one of them new klinky carriers yesterday. I buffed up, decloaked, rapid fire 3d his shields at point blank range, he popped rsp aaaaaand the tricobalt hit him and pop.

    Hit all evasive measures and targetted the closing bop with beam target engines and pretty much stopped him dead in the water and got out with like 25 percent rear shields remaining.

    Cloaked up, found next target and rinse repeat.

    Even more fun when my buddy is flying wing in his.

    We double bagged 2 sci ships at the EXACT SAME TIME.

    Which was utter win

    I support the new ships 110%
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    um the federation was allowed 1 cloaking device under the treaty of algeron (installed on USS Defiant NX74205) and war with the romulans rendered the treaty null and void....so they can do whatever they want now
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Tac Escort cloak works pretty good in Ker'rat, thats the only good thing I have to say about it.

    After some PvP Daily runs, I rearmed my Fleet Escort...missing the eng consule and trading a Eng Ens for a Tac Ens, doesn't work...a extra Tac Lt would have made this a decent ship, maybe...I think we give up a lot for a cloak...Never wanted the cloak in the first place..wanted better shields...The Tac Escort has a glass jaw...imho

    However, Fed Cloak is canon...Klingon whinners...get over it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Husanak wrote: »
    EVERY class in the game has cloak detection skills... learn them.
    Eject Plasma
    Charged Particle Burst
    Gravity Well
    Sensor Scan

    GW needs a target to be able to fire... but mines! Mines will target uncloaked ships! How about fitting a dispersal pattern and a mine launcher?
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