Aside from the atrocious PVP system in STO there is a much bigger problem that can be corrected. That is the PVP freeloader (mainly the Feds). In this game you have one faction (Klings) who rely on PVP as their main source of leveling. The Feds do it for fun, leveling, merits, etc. As mainly a Fed player I can't count how many times I have entered a PVP arena and witness 2-3 ships pull off to the side and just sit, waiting for the match to be over so they can claim their free xp. Cryptic really needs to setup something that tracks this type of behavior and kick out these freeloaders. I suggest a merit based system. The more damage you inflict or the more healing you do the player will receive more merits, skill points, credits, etc. This type of system would eliminate the freeloaders and bring more Feds to PVP matches. It would also be nice to see items drop much like the Fleet Actions.
Aside from the atrocious PVP system in STO there is a much bigger problem that can be corrected. That is the PVP freeloader (mainly the Feds). In this game you have one faction (Klings) who rely on PVP as their main source of leveling. The Feds do it for fun, leveling, merits, etc. As mainly a Fed player I can't count how many times I have entered a PVP arena and witness 2-3 ships pull off to the side and just sit, waiting for the match to be over so they can claim their free xp. Cryptic really needs to setup something that tracks this type of behavior and kick out these freeloaders. I suggest a merit based system. The more damage you inflict or the more healing you do the player will receive more merits, skill points, credits, etc. This type of system would eliminate the freeloaders and bring more Feds to PVP matches. It would also be nice to see items drop much like the Fleet Actions.
Thoughts/Concerns/Suggestions?
Its already the case, and people actually don't care for merits/credits but rather for the daily marks you get...
It sounds like a plan to me. I rarely PvP (which is why I'm atrocious at it) - but when I do I engage as much as I can. It just seems lazy and pointless just to sit and wait for some xp to come your way. If you are going to the trouble of finding a PvP match, you may as well join in while ur there, and so anything that encourages people to do so is a good idea in my book.
If they sit there to long a Klingon Cruiser appears and captures them. You then have to fight your way out of a PvP or could be PvE Klingon prison before you can play the game again With no XP for doing so. If you die you go back to your cell, and lose energy credits.
Actually that Klingon prison idea would make a great story based thing.
a wow dungeon style kick option is what we need, the ability to boot and replace with someone waiting to que
i cant see them not doing this,i dont get to fight the galaxy x too mutch because its usualy cloaked under a station somewhere badge farming : (
Its already the case, and people actually don't care for merits/credits but rather for the daily marks you get...
Yeah that is why I wrote "etc." I know what the freeloaders are doing and it ruins PVP. That is why we need an incentive system setup. For someone who is all about PVE and has their own PVE dailys to come in and TRIBBLE around on PVP is like Cryptic letting PVPers attack them while they try to do their PVE dailys.
If they sit there to long a Klingon Cruiser appears and captures them. You then have to fight your way out of a PvP or could be PvE Klingon prison before you can play the game again With no XP for doing so. If you die you go back to your cell, and lose energy credits.
Actually that Klingon prison idea would make a great story based thing.
yup theres rules in klingon ships about being insuffciently aggresive =p
(worf handing the crew report for the first time to general martok on the rotaren )
Aside from the atrocious PVP system in STO there is a much bigger problem that can be corrected. That is the PVP freeloader (mainly the Feds). In this game you have one faction (Klings) who rely on PVP as their main source of leveling. The Feds do it for fun, leveling, merits, etc. As mainly a Fed player I can't count how many times I have entered a PVP arena and witness 2-3 ships pull off to the side and just sit, waiting for the match to be over so they can claim their free xp. Cryptic really needs to setup something that tracks this type of behavior and kick out these freeloaders. I suggest a merit based system. The more damage you inflict or the more healing you do the player will receive more merits, skill points, credits, etc. This type of system would eliminate the freeloaders and bring more Feds to PVP matches. It would also be nice to see items drop much like the Fleet Actions.
Thoughts/Concerns/Suggestions?
Tell the Klingons where to find the free kills (sitters). Or lead them to them.
Actually seen it with a Klingon squatter and I was the only Fed in the map at the time. I told them they had a squatter and those Klingons let me pop off a few kills in exchange for me then letting them win the match. When it was close to 15 for the Klingons a few other feds wandered in and tried to ruin the agreement but I just Leeroy Jenkins into the Klingon fleet time and again without fighting to help them get the win as per the agreement.
Usually the other players will work with you popping off the squatters as long as you let them know.
Since there is no penalty for death, why would the squatters care if they get blown up? Can't they just sit and respawn until the match is over?
Perhaps I'm missing some mechanic to the PvP system?
This is true, that is why we need a merit based system. The only way to get rid of a freeloader is by removing the incentive to receive free things and replacing it with work. You will see them run for the hills if Cryptic implements such a system.
Problem is, it's difficult to tell who exactly is a freeloader from a software point-of-view. In Capture and Hold missions, we sometimes assigne a ship or two to do nothing but captures. They are vital to the mission, but do next to no damage in the fight. There's also the dedicated healer ships that do very little damage as they concentrate on keeping fleetmates alive.
Damage dealt isn't exactly the best indicator of who was freeloading and who was merely specializing their role. Personally, I don't know what is a good way to tell.
Problem is, it's difficult to tell who exactly is a freeloader from a software point-of-view. In Capture and Hold missions, we sometimes assigne a ship or two to do nothing but captures. They are vital to the mission, but do next to no damage in the fight. There's also the dedicated healer ships that do very little damage as they concentrate on keeping fleetmates alive.
Damage dealt isn't exactly the best indicator of who was freeloading and who was merely specializing their role. Personally, I don't know what is a good way to tell.
Yeah I also included healing in there as well. Most games the healers get the shaft, but I thought of them too. healing would be the same as damage in points and in merits.
if dps is under 10k no badge or exp, thatl show em
You can do 10k damage per second? HACKER! Cryptic, ban this guy who is obviously doing something illegal under TOS.
And I know you mean 10k total damage but what about the late comers who still participate but only have enough time for 9k? The freeloaders aren't even doing 3k of damage so 5k would be fair enough. And let it also work if they do combined with heals because on some teams, I helped more on healing.
a wow dungeon style kick option is what we need, the ability to boot and replace with someone waiting to que
i cant see them not doing this,i dont get to fight the galaxy x too mutch because its usualy cloaked under a station somewhere badge farming : (
This is an extremely poor idea. Nothing personal.
Having played WoW, and seen the kind of shenanigans people get up to, I do understand your frustration. But, knowing internet denizens, FPS players and PUG's like I do, I can flat guarantee that this idea will be abused to also eliminate people that do better (because somebody wants top slot), people that are worse (because they're dragging the team down), people that got the kill-shot instead (cause that's just not FAIR!) etc. etc.
I don't see any reason to open the doors to the massive amount of abuse that normal players could be subjected to, simply to punish some lamers. There must be a better way than this!
Problem is, it's difficult to tell who exactly is a freeloader from a software point-of-view. In Capture and Hold missions, we sometimes assigne a ship or two to do nothing but captures. They are vital to the mission, but do next to no damage in the fight. There's also the dedicated healer ships that do very little damage as they concentrate on keeping fleetmates alive.
Damage dealt isn't exactly the best indicator of who was freeloading and who was merely specializing their role. Personally, I don't know what is a good way to tell.
This is also a significant concern. Glad I'm not the only person to think like this!
Going into PvP without a healer is asking to lose... but what if you go in, have two healers, and the enemy team has none. You'll win the match in short-order, and the healers will get burned because they made almost no contribution.
What about somebody who can one-shot kill an enemy ship (just as an example). Even though he is a MASSIVE asset to the team, he'll get far less points than a cruiser pilot just just sitting in a corner slugging it out with an enemy cruiser pilot. If they manage their damage correctly (so that they don't kill each other) and nobody else comes along to interfere, they can easily top the damage tables, but they made no contribution to the battle.
Overall, until there is an intelligent, software based approach to measuring contribution, I think it's better to just give rewards to everybody that attends.
Currently they track idle time, booting you from the game after 15 minutes. Would it be possible to check for idle time in pvp match? If your ship hasn't moved they could drop you from the match and bring someone else. Also, give you 30 seconds ( or whatever) to respawn to prevent idling with the respawn button up.
Also, it'd be nice to have a time limit. Sometimes matches just go on and on and on and on and I'm sure some AFK'ers are simply tired of the match. Not to sound like "one of those" guys but last night after about a half hour I *had* to go AFK for a few minutes. Sometimes life happens and you have to stop playing. Having a mechanism in place to deal with those situations would be good too.
Join a Fleet and PvP with your fleet-mates. Since PvP is about team-work, and there's no way to enforce team-work and still reward the losing team at the same time for their time, if not their effort, I see joining a Fleet as the one option open to us players.
Perhaps Cryptic will change things one day, but for now... I rarely PuG in PvP.
Join a Fleet and PvP with your fleet-mates. Since PvP is about team-work, and there's no way to enforce team-work and still reward the losing team at the same time for their time, if not their effort, I see joining a Fleet as the one option open to us players.
Perhaps Cryptic will change things one day, but for now... I rarely PuG in PvP.
While this game is a team oriented game you can't make it exclusive to fleets unless you make people join fleets. Does PvP in premade fun but some do not have the time or have the ability to play when the majority of their fleetmates are one.
While this game is a team oriented game you can't make it exclusive to fleets unless you make people join fleets.
In my opinion, other than the STF's every part of STO is available to soloists, although Fleet Actions and PvP are naturally not solo-friendly and require teamwork.
...some do not have the time or have the ability to play when the majority of their fleetmates are one.
Seeing as it only takes 5 people to create a team for either PvE or PvP, I figure that if one joins a fairly active Fleet based on their own time-zone/schedule preferences, finding 4 other people to play with shouldn't be impossible.
I was responding to the OP who said there was some way Cryptic could force people to work together and somehow punish players who let others do the PvP-work for them. In essence, I don't see such a way and therefore I suggested the OP should probably join a Fleet and that may help make PvP enjoyable.
Sounds like the OP needs some tissues for his issues.
Seriously whats the problem with some of you people.
Everyone paid to play the game and they are going to play it the way they want and you are in NO position whatsoever to dictate to others how they will play their game.
If you disapprove of how someone plays then avoid them, dont cry on the forums
Well if a freeloader wants to bored just sitting there doing nothing while the rest of us have fun, it really is no matter to us is it? I mean it doesn't affect us. Seems a rather dull way to spend your time, and a lack of sense of accomplishment. No matter what you do there will always be losers and freeloaders in games, just as there is in real life.
While this game is a team oriented game you can't make it exclusive to fleets unless you make people join fleets. Does PvP in premade fun but some do not have the time or have the ability to play when the majority of their fleetmates are one.
Agree with this totally, I am lucky if have an hour a day to play, please don't force people to be active in fleets.
Agree with this totally, I am lucky if have an hour a day to play, please don't force people to be active in fleets.
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. However, you can't expect everyone in the game, that you have to team-up with, to have the same playstyle preferences as you do. If grouping up in PvP brings you into a team with a Freeloader, I figure you can make the best of it, get your creds/marks and move on. Worst, you could try to lead the enemy to the Freeloader and attempt to disappear yourself so the enemy picks on the Freeloader instead of you.
The moral is though guys, group-play is still group-play.
Sounds like the OP needs some tissues for his issues.
Seriously whats the problem with some of you people.
Everyone paid to play the game and they are going to play it the way they want and you are in NO position whatsoever to dictate to others how they will play their game.
If you disapprove of how someone plays then avoid them, dont cry on the forums
Your right that have the right to play the way they want but by doing so they are also preventing other people to play the game like they want and we cannot avoid them. That is why they are asking a way to avoid them. A way to boot them out of a pvp match if they are doing nothing so what it wrong with that.
And by the way, doing nothing in a pvp match is not really playing...
Update : Cryptic should add a map called Freeloader and give 1/10 of the reward to player there and put it on a timer like 10 min. That way, people who want the reward without moving their TRIBBLE can still get them and not **** off other.
Comments
Its already the case, and people actually don't care for merits/credits but rather for the daily marks you get...
Actually that Klingon prison idea would make a great story based thing.
i cant see them not doing this,i dont get to fight the galaxy x too mutch because its usualy cloaked under a station somewhere badge farming : (
Yeah that is why I wrote "etc." I know what the freeloaders are doing and it ruins PVP. That is why we need an incentive system setup. For someone who is all about PVE and has their own PVE dailys to come in and TRIBBLE around on PVP is like Cryptic letting PVPers attack them while they try to do their PVE dailys.
yup theres rules in klingon ships about being insuffciently aggresive =p
(worf handing the crew report for the first time to general martok on the rotaren )
Tell the Klingons where to find the free kills (sitters). Or lead them to them.
Actually seen it with a Klingon squatter and I was the only Fed in the map at the time. I told them they had a squatter and those Klingons let me pop off a few kills in exchange for me then letting them win the match. When it was close to 15 for the Klingons a few other feds wandered in and tried to ruin the agreement but I just Leeroy Jenkins into the Klingon fleet time and again without fighting to help them get the win as per the agreement.
Usually the other players will work with you popping off the squatters as long as you let them know.
Perhaps I'm missing some mechanic to the PvP system?
They must care if they took the time to move off to the side though.
This is true, that is why we need a merit based system. The only way to get rid of a freeloader is by removing the incentive to receive free things and replacing it with work. You will see them run for the hills if Cryptic implements such a system.
Damage dealt isn't exactly the best indicator of who was freeloading and who was merely specializing their role. Personally, I don't know what is a good way to tell.
Yeah I also included healing in there as well. Most games the healers get the shaft, but I thought of them too. healing would be the same as damage in points and in merits.
You can do 10k damage per second? HACKER! Cryptic, ban this guy who is obviously doing something illegal under TOS.
And I know you mean 10k total damage but what about the late comers who still participate but only have enough time for 9k? The freeloaders aren't even doing 3k of damage so 5k would be fair enough. And let it also work if they do combined with heals because on some teams, I helped more on healing.
This is an extremely poor idea. Nothing personal.
Having played WoW, and seen the kind of shenanigans people get up to, I do understand your frustration. But, knowing internet denizens, FPS players and PUG's like I do, I can flat guarantee that this idea will be abused to also eliminate people that do better (because somebody wants top slot), people that are worse (because they're dragging the team down), people that got the kill-shot instead (cause that's just not FAIR!) etc. etc.
I don't see any reason to open the doors to the massive amount of abuse that normal players could be subjected to, simply to punish some lamers. There must be a better way than this!
This is also a significant concern. Glad I'm not the only person to think like this!
Going into PvP without a healer is asking to lose... but what if you go in, have two healers, and the enemy team has none. You'll win the match in short-order, and the healers will get burned because they made almost no contribution.
What about somebody who can one-shot kill an enemy ship (just as an example). Even though he is a MASSIVE asset to the team, he'll get far less points than a cruiser pilot just just sitting in a corner slugging it out with an enemy cruiser pilot. If they manage their damage correctly (so that they don't kill each other) and nobody else comes along to interfere, they can easily top the damage tables, but they made no contribution to the battle.
=====================================================================================
Overall, until there is an intelligent, software based approach to measuring contribution, I think it's better to just give rewards to everybody that attends.
Also, it'd be nice to have a time limit. Sometimes matches just go on and on and on and on and I'm sure some AFK'ers are simply tired of the match. Not to sound like "one of those" guys but last night after about a half hour I *had* to go AFK for a few minutes. Sometimes life happens and you have to stop playing. Having a mechanism in place to deal with those situations would be good too.
Perhaps Cryptic will change things one day, but for now... I rarely PuG in PvP.
While this game is a team oriented game you can't make it exclusive to fleets unless you make people join fleets. Does PvP in premade fun but some do not have the time or have the ability to play when the majority of their fleetmates are one.
Seeing as it only takes 5 people to create a team for either PvE or PvP, I figure that if one joins a fairly active Fleet based on their own time-zone/schedule preferences, finding 4 other people to play with shouldn't be impossible.
I was responding to the OP who said there was some way Cryptic could force people to work together and somehow punish players who let others do the PvP-work for them. In essence, I don't see such a way and therefore I suggested the OP should probably join a Fleet and that may help make PvP enjoyable.
Seriously whats the problem with some of you people.
Everyone paid to play the game and they are going to play it the way they want and you are in NO position whatsoever to dictate to others how they will play their game.
If you disapprove of how someone plays then avoid them, dont cry on the forums
Agree with this totally, I am lucky if have an hour a day to play, please don't force people to be active in fleets.
The moral is though guys, group-play is still group-play.
Your right that have the right to play the way they want but by doing so they are also preventing other people to play the game like they want and we cannot avoid them. That is why they are asking a way to avoid them. A way to boot them out of a pvp match if they are doing nothing so what it wrong with that.
And by the way, doing nothing in a pvp match is not really playing...
Update : Cryptic should add a map called Freeloader and give 1/10 of the reward to player there and put it on a timer like 10 min. That way, people who want the reward without moving their TRIBBLE can still get them and not **** off other.
Well I don't like the damage count aspect. Reason is that it favors high DPS and not support.
honestly though if I see some dork sitting off to the side, count it as a free kill
Blak