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space combat, physics and general issues

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
hi guys,

sorry if this is the wrong forum, but want to see if you guys are having the same problems?! .....


been playing a bit and I've got a few issues...

firstly; why on earth cant you rotate through 360 degrees in space combat? the number of times I've been in a dog fight and get the "horizon" level and it wont let me go any further! - that sucks! a space game that doesnt have at least some space physics!! is this going to be fixed?

secondly, target indicators, in a massive dog fight its so easy to loose your target is this going to be resolved??

I'm just wondering if anybody else was massively disappointed by the poor effort cryptic / atari have put into this game!? what could have been awesome is pretty much just a catalyst to a smashed screen and new laptop lol (yup anger issues haha)

cheers folks
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    working as intended ;)

    Its to keep the "feel" of star trek, you rarely saw ships doing loop the loop in the shows so cryptic kept it that way, As for your 2nd problem the camera should follow your target....:confused: try an play with your settings.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ...firstly; why on earth cant you rotate through 360 degrees in space combat? the number of times I've been in a dog fight and get the "horizon" level and it wont let me go any further! - that sucks! a space game that doesnt have at least some space physics!! is this going to be fixed?
    For that matter, space is a vacuum, and there is no Air to carry sound, so you shouldn't be able to hear engine noise and weapon fire from other vessels, and explosions in space....

    And one of the basic laws of Physics is that 'An object in Motion stays in motion', so once you build up speed, you should coast forever until you hit something to slow you down...

    And since ships in space are in free fall, it shouldn't be necessary to 'bank' in order to turn the ship...

    So any wonder why they call this 'Science Fiction' instead of 'Science???
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    For that matter, space is a vacuum, and there is no Air to carry sound, so you shouldn't be able to hear engine noise and weapon fire from other vessels, and explosions in space....

    And one of the basic laws of Physics is that 'An object in Motion stays in motion', so once you build up speed, you should coast forever until you hit something to slow you down...

    And since ships in space are in free fall, it shouldn't be necessary to 'bank' in order to turn the ship...

    So any wonder why they call this 'Science Fiction' instead of 'Science???

    Okay... lets just realize that star trek has its own laws of physics :)

    Actually these arguments have been going on since the early days o' trek. Heck in my college physics lab, we used to debate this all the time.

    Blakinik
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    working as intended ;)

    Its to keep the "feel" of star trek, you rarely saw ships doing loop the loop in the shows so cryptic kept it that way, As for your 2nd problem the camera should follow your target....:confused: try an play with your settings.

    cheers fer ya reply :) - but course ya do! well at least they pitch beyond the horizon level!

    hmmm i've had a look at the settings but the interface isnt exactly intuitive! took me a good few hours to figure out why i couldnt use things strait out of my inventory lol

    meh ive cancelled my sub so will see out the rest of the month unless I can get my money back! and walk away very disappointed and angry at these amateurs! !!!


    cheers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    hi guys,

    sorry if this is the wrong forum, but want to see if you guys are having the same problems?! .....


    been playing a bit and I've got a few issues...

    firstly; why on earth cant you rotate through 360 degrees in space combat? the number of times I've been in a dog fight and get the "horizon" level and it wont let me go any further! - that sucks! a space game that doesnt have at least some space physics!! is this going to be fixed?

    secondly, target indicators, in a massive dog fight its so easy to loose your target is this going to be resolved??

    I'm just wondering if anybody else was massively disappointed by the poor effort cryptic / atari have put into this game!? what could have been awesome is pretty much just a catalyst to a smashed screen and new laptop lol (yup anger issues haha)

    cheers folks


    Because Cryptic is one of two things:

    1. Lazy

    2. Unable to change the programming due to lack of skill
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Because Cryptic is one of two things:

    1. Lazy

    2. Unable to change the programming due to lack of skill

    You ignored 3. Held to a license by CBS for an IP that is far more valuable than your right to have fun.

    P.S. I do not agree with your first two points because of the constraints placed on them by number 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This is so typical ... if something dos not work as YOU intend it to work the devs are fools and did a poor effort.
    This is ridiculus.

    MfG Michael
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.

    do you think it would be possible to get a move ship straight up or down button? it would be much nicer than corkscrewing through space... and kirk did it in WoK.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.

    I for one am fine with no 3D. However, it would be really useful to have some sort of tool (like a scale) that showed us our relative altitude in a space-map. In otherwords, how close we are to either ceiling or floor. I know I get turned around sometimes and waste a lot of time not knowing if I need to go up or down. It would be worse in a 3D environment I think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.

    What about a change to the maximum flight angle. Also a way to avoid the "corkscrew" maneuver, or at least limit it. And reduce issues with the firing arcs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.
    Mineria wrote:
    do you think it would be possible to get a move ship straight up or down button? it would be much nicer than corkscrewing through space... and kirk did it in WoK.

    well if you could increase the pitch from 45 to like 85 degrees that would help a lot with the corkscrewing, and should not mess up the shield arcs. ( I could be wrong. )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    STO is not a sim, so where do you draw the line when it comes to physics and realism. I have accepted the vision presented and judge it fun. That said, I would also play the TRIBBLE out of a super detailed ST sim if it was released. Trying to reinvent the wheel at this point is just beating a dead horse. Hope I don't get pun-ished for my view. Get it. Did you catch that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    STO is not a sim, so where do you draw the line when it comes to physics and realism. I have accepted the vision presented and judge it fun. That said, I would also play the TRIBBLE out of a super detailed ST sim if it was released. Trying to reinvent the wheel at this point is just beating a dead horse. Hope I don't get pun-ished for my view. Get it. Did you catch that.

    In 50 years... Microsoft's Flight Simulator will be exactly what you want... because by then we'll all be flying Warp Ships... :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    In 50 years... Microsoft's Flight Simulator will be exactly what you want... because by then we'll all be flying Warp Ships... :P

    Didn't microsoft kill flight simulator?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I can understand that you don't want to implement 3D flight... and its good like it is.

    But alternatively you could implement some other attack patterns... click on the pattern xx and the ship will make a looping automatically to attack the enemy behind you. Or a flee-pattern where the ship fly nearly vertically up, combined with raised speed...

    There exist so much different maneuvers... like the picard or riker (not the best examples...)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Quick question though... I'm fine with the non-3D system we have (and I love it), but there were a couple things brought up due to player dissatisfaction with some of the limitations it imposes. Namely, 2 points:

    1) The angle-of-attack the ship could exhibit is currently locked to something around 45-60 degrees or so. There was dev talk a while back of opening this up to 80-85 degrees from horizon.
    2) There was also the suggestion of (while ship was at all stop), allowing Star Trek II -style Z-axis maneuvering to help with hitting anomalies that otherwise you'd have major corkscrewing to hit (for example, not limited to such use)

    I don't recall hearing anything recent about whether we're going to see those or not. Any updates?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    STO is not a sim, so where do you draw the line when it comes to physics and realism. I have accepted the vision presented and judge it fun. That said, I would also play the TRIBBLE out of a super detailed ST sim if it was released. Trying to reinvent the wheel at this point is just beating a dead horse. Hope I don't get pun-ished for my view. Get it. Did you catch that.

    As a huge Piers Anthony and Xanth fan, I caught it. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    nileight wrote: »
    Didn't microsoft kill flight simulator?

    Yeah, but that didn't stop anyone from using it still.

    I'm sure it'll show up again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Omega_X wrote:
    Yeah, but that didn't stop anyone from using it still.

    I'm sure it'll show up again.

    I heard that there is an Xbox Kinect version coming out... you stand in front of your tv and hold out your arms to fly...

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    In 50 years... Microsoft's Flight Simulator will be exactly what you want... because by then we'll all be flying Warp Ships... :P

    LOL!

    Seriously tho... at least turn on auto-pilot to anomalies. You already have the code in game (can double click on enemies to auto pilot to them). This will help with having to cork TRIBBLE up and down to them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    In 50 years... Microsoft's Flight Simulator will be exactly what you want... because by then we'll all be flying Warp Ships... :P

    50 years? I dont think we have that much time to wait for it... 2012, End of the World, limited lifetime and all that TRIBBLE...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I heard that there is an Xbox Kinect version coming out... you stand in front of your tv and hold out your arms to fly...

    :D

    or clap the wings :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I've posted ad nauseum that we purposly wanted space combat to NOT be 3D... to directly match the IP. We are not going to go full 3D in this game as far out as I can see. The game was designed from the ground up with this specific type of "always facing up" combat as the core.

    Well, Dan... All I can say is that in terms of space combat, it's fine. But in terms to getting to anomalies, there's an issue. Especially when you enter a sector and the anomaly is directly above or below you and you have to corkscrew to it.

    When engaging enemy squadrons, they are typically spaced far enough apart that flying to them allows us time to smoothly navigate the Z-axis.

    The same sort of rule needs to apply to anomalies as well. Don't put them so close to the warp-in point. If all the interactable object spawnpoints are spread out enough, even with the current flight system there would be less trouble...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No, for space combat it is not fine.
    Ever had to TRIBBLE your way up or down for a minute towards an enemy?
    Just give us true 3d flying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If your happy and you know It..........................

    Xaben wrote: »
    clap the wings :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Idali wrote:
    No, for space combat it is not fine.
    Ever had to TRIBBLE your way up or down for a minute towards an enemy?
    Just give us true 3d flying.

    Don't listen to him hes clearly mad for wanting such things !
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dstahl wrote: »
    I heard that there is an Xbox Kinect version coming out... you stand in front of your tv and hold out your arms to fly...

    :D

    Your playerbase doesn't even want to hammer the Spacebar... why would you think they would want to stand up and hold their arms up? lol... no way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    a catalyst to a smashed screen and new laptop lol (yup anger issues haha)

    I know a guy who DID THAT while playing this game. :eek:

    I forget what it was specifically that provoked the reaction, but he quit shortly thereafter due to 'neener neener can't leave the map even if it's 1v5!' change to (ground) PVP and shows no signs of ever coming back.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    hi guys,

    sorry if this is the wrong forum, but want to see if you guys are having the same problems?! .....


    been playing a bit and I've got a few issues...

    firstly; why on earth cant you rotate through 360 degrees in space combat? the number of times I've been in a dog fight and get the "horizon" level and it wont let me go any further! - that sucks! a space game that doesnt have at least some space physics!! is this going to be fixed?

    secondly, target indicators, in a massive dog fight its so easy to loose your target is this going to be resolved??

    I'm just wondering if anybody else was massively disappointed by the poor effort cryptic / atari have put into this game!? what could have been awesome is pretty much just a catalyst to a smashed screen and new laptop lol (yup anger issues haha)

    cheers folks

    Dude stop being such an anal science TRIBBLE. This is a game and all that Newtonian physic space TRIBBLE is not fun. You would hear no sound and lots of sliding around=boring and failed game.
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