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Season 2 PvP Predictions Sure to Go Wrong

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited July 2010 in PvP Gameplay
With the release of Season 2 it is time to procrastinate - something most of us are very good at. After doing a great deal of Tribble testing - with many of you - this is my list of predictions regarding PvP sure to go wrong.

1) Cries for a Federation nerf are going to get a lot louder. Unfortunately, FvF has become much more active than FvK - and unlike Klingons the Fed players in this game eat their own. FvF will remain very steady, while FvK - not so much.

2) The Galaxy-R will be called overpowered. It isn't really, but cruisers in general are more powerful than escorts and there are fewer good Science players in PvP right now. Fixing RSP won't help that situation (RSP helps small ships a lot more than it helps big ships). Expect folks to call for a nerf to the refit ships.

3) The Klingon PvP community will continue to get even smaller than it already is. There has been 1 PvP addition since the game was released - Shanty Town. Cryptic built a PvP community with the Klingon Empire, and has killed that community with apathy. The quality of Klingon PvP will decline considerably - highlighting how Klingon ships are actually much less powerful than their Federation counterparts - and the reason the Feds lost most of the time is because Fed PUGs are simply terrible.

Nothing has improved the quality of Fed PvP more than the formation of more Federation fleets active in PvP.

4) The cloaking devices on the Galaxy-X and Defiant-R will make the larger Fed PvP community even worse than they already are - and will lead to more griefing and less teamwork among PUGs.

5) There will be several major fleet changes. The top fleets at the beginning of Season 2 are different than the top fleets at the beginning of Season 1, and will be different than the top fleets when the beginning of Season 3 comes around. The only thing consistent is the inconsistency of the PvP community of STO - which is nothing more than a reflection of the lack of stability in STO PvP by Cryptic.

What are your predictions sure to go wrong?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    1) Cries for a Federation nerf are going to get a lot louder. Unfortunately, FvF has become much more active than FvK - and unlike Klingons the Fed players in this game eat their own. FvF will remain very steady, while FvK - not so much
    .
    Tooeasy a prediction as someone always calls OP based on little experience..
    2) The Galaxy-R will be called overpowered. It isn't really, but cruisers in general are more powerful than escorts and there are fewer good Science players in PvP right now. Fixing RSP won't help that situation (RSP helps small ships a lot more than it helps big ships). Expect folks to call for a nerf to the refit ships.
    I didn't know they had stopped.:p
    3) The Klingon PvP community will continue to get even smaller than it already is. There has been 1 PvP addition since the game was released - Shanty Town. Cryptic built a PvP community with the Klingon Empire, and has killed that community with apathy. The quality of Klingon PvP will decline considerably - highlighting how Klingon ships are actually much less powerful than their Federation counterparts - and the reason the Feds lost most of the time is because Fed PUGs are simply terrible.
    I will still be here. Alone if neccassary
    4) The cloaking devices on the Galaxy-X and Defiant-R will make the larger Fed PvP community even worse than they already are - and will lead to more griefing and less teamwork among PUGs.
    Its not like the Klingons didn't warn them.......



    my Prediction...
    Is that the complainers will still complain and Azurrian will continue to cry Nerf.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    • People that Don't know how to survive a spike will cry overpowered damage, People that have heals will not notice pressure.
    • Pugs will take more cruisers, Premades will take more escorts.
    • PvP metagame will change from pressure to spike.


    Given the discrepency between damage on an unresisted and resisted target, pressure cannot easily overpower one or two healers. A little self defense goes a long way against pressure now, and one of the best ways to spike involves multiple escorts (and snb, while the heals are on cooldown :rolleyes:). Pugs can't rely on dedicated healers, so the glammer of the glass cannon looks pretty bad considering that the galaxy refit turns just as well when it blows up it's saucer - its any dps cruiser's wet dream.

    Pugs will start to gravitate to an antipressure build because of the growth of cruisers (read: shield stacking and beams on autofire). Premades will gravitate to spikes because they're the best way to kill a target through healers. As always, pugs will get roflstomped by premades.

    ~~

    also, not to toot my own horn, but my predictions are generally fairly accurate (history repeats itself, which makes predictions easier). I once told Snix that weaker heals would force players to take more healers if they wanted to survive - while stronger heals would allow for more varied builds (since you don't need as many healers). Before patch 1.2, you couldn't get away with 1 healing cruiser (too long between heals), now you can (it can be harder if your team isn't set up well).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    My prediction is simple... nothing is going to change much.

    A ton of feds will run defiant cloaks, just as a ton ran the gal x cloak. Two weeks later more then half of them will dump said ship. Mainly when they realize Klingon bops make much better cloak hunters then raptor/defiants.
    Universal slots means bops running multiple cloak detection skills.

    In any event hopefuly a few of the people that tune back in stick around awhile. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    My Predictions:

    I will continue to talk a good talk but fail in the walking.

    The Carrier community will continue be a vocal minority and when the changes do happen to the class (and eventually they must), it will still be far short of whats needed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Well from the standpoint of each refit:
    [list=0]
    [*]The Defiant will yield some incredibly deadly players; yet many who will fly them are of the opinion that the cloak makes the Klingons OP, and they will go into PvP thinking that they're awesome only to learn that a good player in any ship will eat them alive.
    [*]The Galaxy will be pretty interesting. I do see this ship becoming the dominant cruiser for the Federation though, as people will love the ability to separate and gain increased maneuverability at little realistic loss, however the Star Cruiser will remain the cruiser of choice for dedicated healers.
    [*]The Intrepid is troubling though with it's ability to both tank and gank in the hands of an experienced player. Will it become the dominant Science ship? Personally I think so, but I could be wrong....
    [/list]

    As for the Kar'Fi.........that will get less use than any other ship in the game because there is nothing that it does well (it has no purpose and Cryptic isn't changing it). As a carrier pilot I can honestly say that I prefer the Vo'Quv over the Kar'Fi in every way, and I have yet to find somebody.......ANYBODY who actually thinks well of the performance of the ship.

    ---

    As for the actual game experience; good players will still pile drive bad ones but the new abilities will lead to changes in strategy and tactics on a case by case basis.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    lol- this thread got depressing very quickly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Why would anyone call the Galaxy Refit OP? It like a speedier Negh'var without cannons or cloak. Well okay, logic doesn't really apply in these kind of things.

    As for my predictions, if the new queue system doesn't change, low level PVP and ground PVP will cease to exist.

    Science ships will all be Intrepid refits running CPB, and it will eventually get nerfed. More people will play them because of the refit, and there won't be a lot of diversity among them.

    Defiant refits will simultaneously be called underpowered and overpowered, while its red headed cousin, the Raptor, continues to go unnoticed by both Feds and KDF. But after a while, escorts won't all be defiants.

    MES will be rediscovered and everyone will have cloaks again, making the whole cloak issue moot. They will then nerf it again.

    Tacs can do even more damage than before, so it will be a lot more frustrating to be on the receiving end in a PUG.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    one thing people dont realize about the defiant refit, is when you crunch the numbers the RAptor is better than it.

    The raptor is the only Klingon ship that gets more HP than its federation counterfits, now in season 2 feds will have identical BO slots as the raptor and a cloak but 3k less base HP.

    Really it doesnt matter much because raptors are underused but 1v1 a raptor is better than a defiant refit.
    the defiant is defenatly not under powered, its just not near imbalancing as some people make it out to be.

    Real klingons will still win pvp no matter what because they have more experience, no amounts of Federation technology can beat the warrior sense of klingons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    one thing people dont realize about the defiant refit, is when you crunch the numbers the RAptor is better than it.

    The raptor is the only Klingon ship that gets more HP than its federation counterfits, now in season 2 feds will have identical BO slots as the raptor and a cloak but 3k less base HP.

    Really it doesnt matter much because raptors are underused but 1v1 a raptor is better than a defiant refit.
    the defiant is defenatly not under powered, its just not near imbalancing as some people make it out to be.

    Real klingons will still win pvp no matter what because they have more experience, no amounts of Federation technology can beat the warrior sense of klingons.

    The trade off is the turn rate... I don't have the numbers handy but the defiant has a better turn rate then the raptor. A trade I would bet most Raptor players would make.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Husanak wrote: »
    The trade off is the turn rate... I don't have the numbers handy but the defiant has a better turn rate then the raptor. A trade I would bet most Raptor players would make.

    Raptors have another engineering console to do that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Why would anyone call the Galaxy Refit OP? It like a speedier Negh'var without cannons or cloak. Well okay, logic doesn't really apply in these kind of things.

    Not sure on this yet.
    As for my predictions, if the new queue system doesn't change, low level PVP and ground PVP will cease to exist.

    Sadly true.
    Science ships will all be Intrepid refits running CPB, and it will eventually get nerfed. More people will play them because of the refit, and there won't be a lot of diversity among them.

    Agreed.
    Defiant refits will simultaneously be called underpowered and overpowered, while its red headed cousin, the Raptor, continues to go unnoticed by both Feds and KDF. But after a while, escorts won't all be defiants.

    Also true. In reality in the hands of a good player the Defiant will be double distilled purple poison, much like the Raptor is.
    MES will be rediscovered and everyone will have cloaks again, making the whole cloak issue moot. They will then nerf it again.

    No, I think they will eventually see that not only do we need more granular and nuanced cloak detection mechanics, it can add some very enjoyable new dimensions to game play without needing to 'nerf' MES or cloaking. Call me an optimist :p
    Tacs can do even more damage than before, so it will be a lot more frustrating to be on the receiving end in a PUG.

    Hmmm...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Science ships will all be Intrepid refits running CPB, and it will eventually get nerfed. More people will play them because of the refit, and there won't be a lot of diversity among them.

    Sadly I can really see this happening. I hate using cookie cutter builds and often abandon them out of hand when they get popular, mainly because I can smell the nerf coming.

    Sad to say I'm smelling it again, I'm refusing to abandon my build just yet though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I have one prediction really...the new klingon carrier will be used only by handful people, because most (if not all) klingons will keep their token for future ships, because the 500 emblembs will be hard to come by on KDF side. So effectively the whole work around this garbage hauler will be wasted.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    Raptors have another engineering console to do that.

    Not true, the console never achieves the same thing as +1 base turn rate. Its simple math. Higher base turn rate improves all turn modifiers modifiers, while the turn console is just one of the modifiers.

    The defiant has +2 base turn rate over the other escort or raptors, if its flying on 50 engine power, it gets 2x0,5 turn modifier just from this, now you have command skills and maneuvers, and other BO abilties. But even with only engine power...thats more than 3 turn consoles :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    just to reiterate, the current difference between unmitigated and mitigated escort burst damage is huge. Properly tuned an escort can pop a target (with a super spike) in about 3-5 seconds, but that should be ample time to throw a heal. Pressure on the otherhand takes a large hit because people can no longer pressure 3+ targets as effectively as they could in 1.2.

    as a bit of a random shot, science is going to replace escorts in terms of pressure (science skills pressuring the playing ability of the opponents) while escorts remain in charge of spikes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The queue Hostile Engagement (FvK) - Arena Space - Cracked Planetoid that you were offered couldn't start because not enough members accepted their offers.

    This is a fix? I didn't have to requeue but when I clicked "engage" the next time the dialogue box popped it said "NoPossibleMaps". I'd rather run the risk of entering out numbered than to keep having to chase this carrot on a stick...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Firetroll wrote: »
    well i have to say dev did not do thair job right
    if you fly a Cruiser Class u die whith 3 sec even if you use RSP
    how is that a Escort Class ship get to kill biggest ships in game in 3 sec i dont even get time to use a hull repair
    and rappied Fire is tolttal @#$%^

    Cryptic Dev's you get head out you sky and fix the Cruiser Class
    soo that Cruiser Class is more of a tank as it stands

    your Escort Class total @#$% ****
    thows ship are just escorts thay are Escort for larger ships
    get rid of DPS system thats number 1

    ThePatch #$%^ Blows unbalanced pice of Junk

    I was just curious.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    LoL. I like him. He's funneh.:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    SteveHale wrote: »
    LoL. I like him. He's funneh.:D

    and he's seriuos. His cruiser keeps dying no matter how many times he hits miracle worker or RSP......................
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.... those are the two words that come to mind. I'm not sure what the original post looked like but i DID read the supplemental one in mention of my name which is why you are recieving this email. I don't recall saying or doing anything to make you describe me in the way in which you did in that post. But I assure you that you COULD OF worded it another way. You CHOSE the words you wanted and you were sure in thier use to convey what you wanted heard. I want you to know i DO take offense to what you said regardless of whoever else may or may not. Everyone said you were a cool guy and my first impression of you was exactly that. someone i could look up to and even though I was not apart of your fleet I considered you a role model in-game. A model player. Now you are merely **** TALKER as far as I am concerned. And I will do what i can to prove your words nothing more than a shallow shell; a poor and horribly mistaken measurement of my skill in pvp. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!

    -Tripwire-
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.... those are the two words that come to mind. I'm not sure what the original post looked like but i DID read the supplemental one in mention of my name which is why you are recieving this email. I don't recall saying or doing anything to make you describe me in the way in which you did in that post. But I assure you that you COULD OF worded it another way. You CHOSE the words you wanted and you were sure in thier use to convey what you wanted heard. I want you to know i DO take offense to what you said regardless of whoever else may or may not. Everyone said you were a cool guy and my first impression of you was exactly that. someone i could look up to and even though I was not apart of your fleet I considered you a role model in-game. A model player. Now you are merely **** TALKER as far as I am concerned. And I will do what i can to prove your words nothing more than a shallow shell; a poor and horribly mistaken measurement of my skill in pvp. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!

    -Tripwire-

    Er... are you... drunk? What does this have to do with anything being discussed here? Are you sure you are even posting to the correct thread?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.... those are the two words that come to mind. I'm not sure what the original post looked like but i DID read the supplemental one in mention of my name which is why you are recieving this email. I don't recall saying or doing anything to make you describe me in the way in which you did in that post. But I assure you that you COULD OF worded it another way. You CHOSE the words you wanted and you were sure in thier use to convey what you wanted heard. I want you to know i DO take offense to what you said regardless of whoever else may or may not. Everyone said you were a cool guy and my first impression of you was exactly that. someone i could look up to and even though I was not apart of your fleet I considered you a role model in-game. A model player. Now you are merely **** TALKER as far as I am concerned. And I will do what i can to prove your words nothing more than a shallow shell; a poor and horribly mistaken measurement of my skill in pvp. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!

    -Tripwire-

    you may wish to edit this out of existance, as it appears to be a misspost.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    you may wish to edit this out of existance, as it appears to be a misspost.

    It has appeared in three different threads exactly as above... that's one hell of a mis-post :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    It has appeared in three different threads exactly as above... that's one hell of a mis-post :rolleyes:

    Whoa- someones angry it seems.:eek: Wonder what fleet he is refering too?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Whoa- someones angry it seems.:eek: Wonder what fleet he is refering too?

    I believe his internet connection was being slightly flaky. His posts were in reference to another person in another thread.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    maybe he just needs a kitten, kittens make all things better
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'ts a bot. All 5 of his only posts are identical.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Naevius wrote:
    I'ts a bot. All 5 of his only posts are identical.

    Whoa! Then the AI's for bots are becoming really scary. Thats one crazy angry bot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Tripwire? Yet another angry Fed PvPer I've never heard of?

    Or is he an angry Klingon PvPer I've never heard of?

    Either way, "drama queen" seems appropriate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Darksided wrote: »
    4) The cloaking devices on the Galaxy-X and Defiant-R will make the larger Fed PvP community even worse than they already are - and will lead to more griefing and less teamwork among PUGs.

    You're spot on with this one actually. There's going to be a LOT more defiant pilots trying to cap while cloaked.

    This will lead to a lot of:
    "WTF Capture and Hold is broken!"
    "Yes I can SO capture while cloaked! I did it with that last node!" -nevermind the fact you were sitting next to a non-cloaked ship.
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