So while I've seen quite a few threads either asking about Season 3 in general, or about very specific theories about UGC, I thought we should have a discussion *just* for discussing what first UGC we want in the Season 3 expansion.
Would you like it limited to an on-board holodeck with map editor? Would you even want a map editor at all?
What about POS (player owned station) control? Should POSes be fleet only or up for each person of a prerequisite condition? What sort of modules and abilities should a POS have?
Would you count an open PvP Territory Control Sector as UGC eng-game if it was persistent and allowed exclusive item creation? Also, would integration with POSes within the zone make this better or worse?
Final self-imposed question: What sort of UGC would you want first, while other types are being worked on?
I demand everything be customizable from maps to stats to dialogue to everything.
I want an RTS level map editor like WCIII. Maybe not THAT much but seriously, I want control. I don't want "select 1 of 20 preselected, premade maps. Then put premade groups in prechosen spots with premade stats" or anything like that!
I demand everything be customizable from maps to stats to dialogue to everything.
I want an RTS level map editor like WCIII. Maybe not THAT much but seriously, I want control. I don't want "select 1 of 20 preselected, premade maps. Then put premade groups in prechosen spots with premade stats" or anything like that!
That would be bad.
Then this begs the question of what would those new maps be treated as. Should you get XP for your own map design? This sounds like a recipe for exploits
Then this begs the question of what would those new maps be treated as. Should you get XP for your own map design? This sounds like a recipe for exploits
Simple answer:
No rewards.
People might not like the sound of that but really, UGC is about enjoyment. All the UGC I play is because you can get more fun out of a whole community doing work on a game compared to even the Devs sometimes. You get more diversity and more crazy gameplay. I've never been rewarded for UGC and am 100% okay with it if there are NO REWARDS.
UGC adds insane replay when done right and people will flock to it like crazy when they realize it's more fun to do than dailies over and over! :P
NO REWARDS. If they MUST have reward based UGC then have that OPTIONAL so that you don't get the same horrible limitations when you want to make one with no rewards.
Without rewards there will be less limits (or should be).
Without those crappy limits you can make UGC that's like literally 10x better and 100x more diverse.
Alright, so there would no rewards for the heavily editable stuff like in a holodeck, but what about free space? Such as an open PvP sector block?
There should be rewards for accomplishing victory against an adversary, but how would these work in tandem with player controlled space and the stations within it? I'd certainly like Cryptic to make a special sandbox for this sort of stuff, then we can make our own fleet stations to defend and attack, with bonuses from the planets they orbit, such as extra materials for ship construction (which would be build in a drydock module outside the station)
Personally I think UGC belongs in the "holodeck". That completely solves any problems that CBS might have with it, and allows players to set their missions in whatever time period they want, or to create stories that have nothing to do with the official story of the game(such as the ones the characters from the shows enjoyed doing quite often in the holodeck). As far as rewards go, there should be some sort of cap on how much xp can be gained from UGC missions, and NPCs should drop whatever the normal type of loot would be for their type.
I don't think UGC would work like that and be in free space. I'd imagine it as picking and sharing them in a lobby type setting. You can't fly to UGC. You open some kind of UGC browser, can join lobbies, chat, etc and download content made by other players. You could start your own lobby and host whatever content you want and let them download it.
I don't think UGC would work like that and be in free space. I'd imagine it as picking and sharing them in a lobby type setting. You can't fly to UGC. You open some kind of UGC browser, can join lobbies, chat, etc and download content made by other players. You could start your own lobby and host whatever content you want and let them download it.
UGC will work the same basic way it does in COH: you access a terminal, select the mission, and load into it. In STO, the "terminal" will most likely be the holodeck, and you will be able to group up with the people you want to do the mission with beforehand.
I know I'm opening a pandora's box saying this: What about EVE? They have a workable POS mechanic. You can do it alone, but they require fuel that needs a corp (fleet)'s wallet to effecitvely maintain. Also, why couldn't we just fly to UGC? If its the untamed frontier between two nations, it would require this kind of enginuity and initiative to build POSes.
I know I'm opening a pandora's box saying this: What about EVE? They have a workable POS mechanic. You can do it alone, but they require fuel that needs a corp (fleet)'s wallet to effecitvely maintain. Also, why couldn't we just fly to UGC? If its the untamed frontier between two nations, it would require this kind of enginuity and initiative to build POSes.
Because, quite simply, there is no way Cryptic or CBS is going to allow players to write missions that take place in the "real" world of STO. Also, aside from the fact that it would never happen, it would severely limit the stories people were able to create because they would have to fit in with all the existing stories of the "real" STO world. By having UGC take place in the holodeck it doesnt matter if it contradicts existing canon or not because its not part of the "real" world.
It sounds stupidly limiting. The best UGC makes everything from serious content that sticks to lore to new content that tries to tell it's own story to minigames and just plain silly stuff.
If you just FLY to UGC assuming the tool is good enough you might feel weird running into content that makes you play minigames like "Poke the Vulcan until he vomits on you". :P
Play WCIII UGC! Defense of the Ancients, Uther Party, Sheep Tag (which makes you be a SHEEP and run from player HERDERS), etc. It's all good. It's got serious stuff in there too.
My point is UGC should be non-limiting. You should be able to make an epic story based in STO. You should be able to make single and multiplayer stuff (exclusively for either one maybe). You should also be able to make a freeze tag game which has you as a Tribble running away from Targs. Running into the freeze tag game by flying around might be odd.
I highly doubt we'll get a 10th the quality of WCIII's custom game maker. Sad but probably true.
Because, quite simply, there is no way Cryptic or CBS is going to allow players to write missions that take place in the "real" world of STO. Also, aside from the fact that it would never happen, it would severely limit the stories people were able to create because they would have to fit in with all the existing stories of the "real" STO world. By having UGC take place in the holodeck it doesnt matter if it contradicts existing canon or not because its not part of the "real" world.
Who says there needs to be 'missions'? How about just having fun in the great unknown trying not to die There is this pre-concieved notion that the action needs to take place in some sort of mission. How about just a sandbox with POS bases managed by players. XP wouldn't need to be the reward, just exclusive items and resources from the player controlled areas. They would be no need for CBS veto-ing it because it doesn't use any characters, just players, no iconic ships, just our own, and as long as the starbase names don't contradict names in canon, there's no problem. We already have safeguards for that last part.
(I explained what POS stands for in the first post please re-read if you're getting confused Parallax :rolleyes: )
Pretty much everyone who wants UGC. People want to be able to create their own stories for themselves and their friends to play, and that involves "missions".
i dont understand peoples facination with poses , me id be content with stations created by the developers aslong as there conquerable and UGC is gonna be pointless if i cant fly in the battle of britain like o brien and bashir =p
i dont understand peoples facination with poses , me id be content with stations created by the developers aslong as there conquerable and UGC is gonna be pointless if i cant fly in the battle of britain like o brien and bashir =p
Great point. If POSes were ever to be put in-game, would we just want Cryptic to make up a few choices and combos, letting players fight over them, and then customize them?
Also, continuing on the mission front, I too would love to dogfight in the holodeck I just don't see it happening while there's more sci-fi-ish things to go around doing. Since people seem more amiable toward holodeck editing, let's continue on that note:
More freedom the better is agreed but there's always some limitations even if its just the engine, or the manpower to create the choices in the first place. So how would these choices come to be? Would you have them all immediately, or would you only be able to use things that you've seen in 'real' missions?n It wouldn't make much sense to make an Undine sim if you hadn't met them yet.
Great point. If POSes were ever to be put in-game, would we just want Cryptic to make up a few choices and combos, letting players fight over them, and then customize them?
Also, continuing on the mission front, I too would love to dogfight in the holodeck I just don't see it happening while there's more sci-fi-ish things to go around doing. Since people seem more amiable toward holodeck editing, let's continue on that note:
More freedom the better is agreed but there's always some limitations even if its just the engine, or the manpower to create the choices in the first place. So how would these choices come to be? Would you have them all immediately, or would you only be able to use things that you've seen in 'real' missions?n It wouldn't make much sense to make an Undine sim if you hadn't met them yet.
yes the more customising the better let the players build up defence turrets , npc fleet patrols etc , let fleets have a real investment to defend them , holding stations and planets should confer bonuses to the fleets that own them , extra sensor str etc ,
and please let me go shoot some rapids like o brien =p
Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. Dont you think Starfleet would train their officers in the holodeck before they actually graduate into active duty?
While it's true they would be trained, it would not be safe for ensigns to have access to all the Undine files that an Admiral would. Starfleet Intelligence would have a coronary. Wouldn't more and more files be available as you rank up?
While it's true they would be trained, it would not be safe for ensigns to have access to all the Undine files that an Admiral would. Starfleet Intelligence would have a coronary. Wouldn't more and more files be available as you rank up?
So what exactly are you saying? That ensigns dont know Undine EXIST, or that they dont know all the info about them? Because as long as they know they EXIST then they could still run a holodeck program with them in it. You CAN have a race in a holodeck program without including classified info.
So what exactly are you saying? That ensigns dont know Undine EXIST, or that they dont know all the info about them? Because as long as they know they EXIST then they could still run a holodeck program with them in it. You CAN have a race in a holodeck program without including classified info.
That's true, I should clarify. I just through out the Undine as an example, the Iconians would be better. While and Ensign would know they used to exist, their return is probably still classified, so you couldn't run sims on those spiffy Iconian cruisers as an Ensign.
Anyway, I just think that the tactical details would still be classified. So an Ensign would only be able to run sims with Undine recruits, then Lieutenants can use Officers, and so on. It would also work as a balance mechanic
That's true, I should clarify. I just through out the Undine as an example, the Iconians would be better. While and Ensign would know they used to exist, their return is probably still classified, so you couldn't run sims on those spiffy Iconian cruisers as an Ensign.
Allthough I'd say SBs run by real world personel don't necissarily would fit into the game mechanics. For the manner of the Undine there were an great species of being NPCs for PvE as part of the game. I wouldn't mean that those are only be known to Fed Officers with above the rank of a Ensign.
The Iconians were never seen in the lore & just maybe who knows, we will see them in Season 3. In my Cpt's log I have the Hirogens, or the one with the timeportals would inlighten us what's behind the secret of this?
I can't wait for UGC, personally. Anything that will allow me to prove to my brother that a sovereign class star ship could totally destroy the Death Star from Star Wars better than a bunch of X-Wings. As far as rewards go, I wouldn't mind having no rewards at all. Really UGC is great because it lets you keep playing once you run out of cryptic-made missions and (in the above example) just have fun with random scenarios.
For the open territory control with POS's, one concept I had a while back (though not sure the feasibility of it) is an open space area that is procedurally generated (kinda like random, but it generates the same things every time) in all directions. The space is populated by systems and fleets can acquire a system to protect. They get an upgradeable station to help them defend the front. Every time a system is taken, a real-time battlefront line changes. To capture a system, its defenses first have to be brought down then enemies need to beam down to the station to capture it somehow (very similar to Titan mode in Battlefield 2142 for anyone who has played that).
Important upgrades for the station would be defense turrets, long range communication arrays (to call for help from nearby ally systems in case of invasion), and a transwarp gate (so that if planet Zebes 4 hours of flying away is in distress and has one, I can jump there instantly for backup). Of course, all these things could be destroyed or disabled by the invading fleet, so defenses would need to be set up appropriately.
Obviously it's being refered to the Genesis systems that were for example handeld in Freelancer quite nicely. There was no carrier- (or more mothership) being runned by a fleet. I just have to add how in our case STO the fleet action is embeted in the Tostig system. Here's a spacestation & all the ingame features like generated enemy ships, but not run as a interior SB by a fleet what would make up POS.
I'm thinking that are going to model it all on the way content works in the game, SPORE.
It is content that uses all in-game assets, but as we use them ourselves, the game will spread popular ones to other users.
E.g. Alien races.
1. We create a custom alien for our starship captain, but on the info page there is a new rating system and other users can say if they like it or not.
2. Highest rated ones start appearing as the NPC alien races in cluster explore missions and first contact diplomacy misisons. Or start appearing as NPC background characters on starbases and colony missions.
3. High rated ones can be selected from the menu in character creation, so other players will start playing your same race.
And that is probably what they will call "user generated content". It's generated by users, but not totally custom content, e.g. uploading our own skin textures and 3D model meshes.
E.g. Missions
They put in some kind of mission scenario creator, e.g. a holodeck where we can program missions for our own enjoyment. But these aren't sophisticated map editors or complex tools. I bet it will be somethng more like multiple choice screens, and then the Genesis system will put them together for you.
1. It will ask you something like "Pick a map type - planet surface, underground base, abandoned asteroid base."
2. Pick an enemy - Klingons, Borg, Vito'D, etc.
3. Pick a scenario - "Aid the Planet, Investigate base, scan 5 cocoons"
4. Then maybe a couple of other options like custom text for what we find when scanning computer consoles.
5. Then the game generates a mission based on what we specified and voila! UGC Mission, that can be rated by others and popular ones get added in for real as random missions while exploring clusters.
That's the way I see it happening. Like the adventure creator in SPORE Galactic Adventures.
Reaction from players? I bet some will like the idea of adding their own imagination to the game and having it spread to others, in a kind of idiot-proof simplified creation system, but other people will probably look at this and say "that isn't my idea of custom content! I want to upload a picture of my face to use as an alien model or stick as a poster in my ready room!"
The Iconians were never seen in the lore & just maybe who knows, we will see them in Season 3. In my Cpt's log I have the Hirogens, or the one with the timeportals would inlighten us what's behind the secret of this?
I think they appeared in a Star Trek game I played on Super Nintendo once and they looked like pale green-yellow Easter Island Moai head-shaped humanoids.
Raises interesting questions about Easter Island.
Also I think that's how they were described in the Star Trek: Gateways book series which features some appearances by Iconians.
I'm thinking that are going to model it all on the way content works in the game, SPORE.
It is content that uses all in-game assets, but as we use them ourselves, the game will spread popular ones to other users.
E.g. Alien races.
1. We create a custom alien for our starship captain, but on the info page there is a new rating system and other users can say if they like it or not.
2. Highest rated ones start appearing as the NPC alien races in cluster explore missions and first contact diplomacy misisons. Or start appearing as NPC background characters on starbases and colony missions.
3. High rated ones can be selected from the menu in character creation, so other players will start playing your same race.
And that is probably what they will call "user generated content". It's generated by users, but not totally custom content, e.g. uploading our own skin textures and 3D model meshes.
Wasn't this talked about at the start of STO? I'd certainly like this, but I have a feeling Turians and Rodians would start popping up.
Comments
I want an RTS level map editor like WCIII. Maybe not THAT much but seriously, I want control. I don't want "select 1 of 20 preselected, premade maps. Then put premade groups in prechosen spots with premade stats" or anything like that!
That would be bad.
Then this begs the question of what would those new maps be treated as. Should you get XP for your own map design? This sounds like a recipe for exploits
Simple answer:
No rewards.
People might not like the sound of that but really, UGC is about enjoyment. All the UGC I play is because you can get more fun out of a whole community doing work on a game compared to even the Devs sometimes. You get more diversity and more crazy gameplay. I've never been rewarded for UGC and am 100% okay with it if there are NO REWARDS.
UGC adds insane replay when done right and people will flock to it like crazy when they realize it's more fun to do than dailies over and over! :P
NO REWARDS. If they MUST have reward based UGC then have that OPTIONAL so that you don't get the same horrible limitations when you want to make one with no rewards.
Without rewards there will be less limits (or should be).
Without those crappy limits you can make UGC that's like literally 10x better and 100x more diverse.
There should be rewards for accomplishing victory against an adversary, but how would these work in tandem with player controlled space and the stations within it? I'd certainly like Cryptic to make a special sandbox for this sort of stuff, then we can make our own fleet stations to defend and attack, with bonuses from the planets they orbit, such as extra materials for ship construction (which would be build in a drydock module outside the station)
UGC will work the same basic way it does in COH: you access a terminal, select the mission, and load into it. In STO, the "terminal" will most likely be the holodeck, and you will be able to group up with the people you want to do the mission with beforehand.
Because, quite simply, there is no way Cryptic or CBS is going to allow players to write missions that take place in the "real" world of STO. Also, aside from the fact that it would never happen, it would severely limit the stories people were able to create because they would have to fit in with all the existing stories of the "real" STO world. By having UGC take place in the holodeck it doesnt matter if it contradicts existing canon or not because its not part of the "real" world.
It sounds stupidly limiting. The best UGC makes everything from serious content that sticks to lore to new content that tries to tell it's own story to minigames and just plain silly stuff.
If you just FLY to UGC assuming the tool is good enough you might feel weird running into content that makes you play minigames like "Poke the Vulcan until he vomits on you". :P
Play WCIII UGC! Defense of the Ancients, Uther Party, Sheep Tag (which makes you be a SHEEP and run from player HERDERS), etc. It's all good. It's got serious stuff in there too.
My point is UGC should be non-limiting. You should be able to make an epic story based in STO. You should be able to make single and multiplayer stuff (exclusively for either one maybe). You should also be able to make a freeze tag game which has you as a Tribble running away from Targs. Running into the freeze tag game by flying around might be odd.
I highly doubt we'll get a 10th the quality of WCIII's custom game maker. Sad but probably true.
Who says there needs to be 'missions'? How about just having fun in the great unknown trying not to die
(I explained what POS stands for in the first post please re-read if you're getting confused Parallax :rolleyes: )
Pretty much everyone who wants UGC. People want to be able to create their own stories for themselves and their friends to play, and that involves "missions".
Great point. If POSes were ever to be put in-game, would we just want Cryptic to make up a few choices and combos, letting players fight over them, and then customize them?
Also, continuing on the mission front, I too would love to dogfight in the holodeck
More freedom the better is agreed but there's always some limitations even if its just the engine, or the manpower to create the choices in the first place. So how would these choices come to be? Would you have them all immediately, or would you only be able to use things that you've seen in 'real' missions?n It wouldn't make much sense to make an Undine sim if you hadn't met them yet.
yes the more customising the better let the players build up defence turrets , npc fleet patrols etc , let fleets have a real investment to defend them , holding stations and planets should confer bonuses to the fleets that own them , extra sensor str etc ,
and please let me go shoot some rapids like o brien =p
Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. Dont you think Starfleet would train their officers in the holodeck before they actually graduate into active duty?
While it's true they would be trained, it would not be safe for ensigns to have access to all the Undine files that an Admiral would. Starfleet Intelligence would have a coronary. Wouldn't more and more files be available as you rank up?
So what exactly are you saying? That ensigns dont know Undine EXIST, or that they dont know all the info about them? Because as long as they know they EXIST then they could still run a holodeck program with them in it. You CAN have a race in a holodeck program without including classified info.
That's true, I should clarify. I just through out the Undine as an example, the Iconians would be better. While and Ensign would know they used to exist, their return is probably still classified, so you couldn't run sims on those spiffy Iconian cruisers as an Ensign.
Anyway, I just think that the tactical details would still be classified. So an Ensign would only be able to run sims with Undine recruits, then Lieutenants can use Officers, and so on. It would also work as a balance mechanic
Allthough I'd say SBs run by real world personel don't necissarily would fit into the game mechanics. For the manner of the Undine there were an great species of being NPCs for PvE as part of the game. I wouldn't mean that those are only be known to Fed Officers with above the rank of a Ensign.
The Iconians were never seen in the lore & just maybe who knows, we will see them in Season 3. In my Cpt's log I have the Hirogens, or the one with the timeportals would inlighten us what's behind the secret of this?
For the open territory control with POS's, one concept I had a while back (though not sure the feasibility of it) is an open space area that is procedurally generated (kinda like random, but it generates the same things every time) in all directions. The space is populated by systems and fleets can acquire a system to protect. They get an upgradeable station to help them defend the front. Every time a system is taken, a real-time battlefront line changes. To capture a system, its defenses first have to be brought down then enemies need to beam down to the station to capture it somehow (very similar to Titan mode in Battlefield 2142 for anyone who has played that).
Important upgrades for the station would be defense turrets, long range communication arrays (to call for help from nearby ally systems in case of invasion), and a transwarp gate (so that if planet Zebes 4 hours of flying away is in distress and has one, I can jump there instantly for backup). Of course, all these things could be destroyed or disabled by the invading fleet, so defenses would need to be set up appropriately.
It is content that uses all in-game assets, but as we use them ourselves, the game will spread popular ones to other users.
E.g. Alien races.
1. We create a custom alien for our starship captain, but on the info page there is a new rating system and other users can say if they like it or not.
2. Highest rated ones start appearing as the NPC alien races in cluster explore missions and first contact diplomacy misisons. Or start appearing as NPC background characters on starbases and colony missions.
3. High rated ones can be selected from the menu in character creation, so other players will start playing your same race.
And that is probably what they will call "user generated content". It's generated by users, but not totally custom content, e.g. uploading our own skin textures and 3D model meshes.
E.g. Missions
They put in some kind of mission scenario creator, e.g. a holodeck where we can program missions for our own enjoyment. But these aren't sophisticated map editors or complex tools. I bet it will be somethng more like multiple choice screens, and then the Genesis system will put them together for you.
1. It will ask you something like "Pick a map type - planet surface, underground base, abandoned asteroid base."
2. Pick an enemy - Klingons, Borg, Vito'D, etc.
3. Pick a scenario - "Aid the Planet, Investigate base, scan 5 cocoons"
4. Then maybe a couple of other options like custom text for what we find when scanning computer consoles.
5. Then the game generates a mission based on what we specified and voila! UGC Mission, that can be rated by others and popular ones get added in for real as random missions while exploring clusters.
That's the way I see it happening. Like the adventure creator in SPORE Galactic Adventures.
Reaction from players? I bet some will like the idea of adding their own imagination to the game and having it spread to others, in a kind of idiot-proof simplified creation system, but other people will probably look at this and say "that isn't my idea of custom content! I want to upload a picture of my face to use as an alien model or stick as a poster in my ready room!"
Double Picard Facepalm.
I think they appeared in a Star Trek game I played on Super Nintendo once and they looked like pale green-yellow Easter Island Moai head-shaped humanoids.
Raises interesting questions about Easter Island.
Also I think that's how they were described in the Star Trek: Gateways book series which features some appearances by Iconians.