There has been what could be a troubling course of action in the eye of a user on the STO forums with thread closing and comments made by forum moderators. Also, there has been a lot of complaints about the C-Store in regards to what is being added and whether or not that should have been part of the game as is.
Some thoughts:
In regards to the first sentence, it seems troubling that complaints are quickly closed or hidden. I understand that the forum has guidelines and Cryptic has an image to sell, but at the same time, shouldn't Cryptic be concerned about the players it already has? I'm a player that subscribes monthly and so are my complaints illegitimate? If I quit, does Cryptic care or did they care enough to the complaints I had.
Cryptic;'s response, however, has not all been negative by a long shot. In development, Cryptic has done an amazing job of responding to the community. However, on the marketing end of things, not so much. The C-Store is troubling.
Let us not consider just current players who may or may not be prompted to leave due to the C-Store's theoretical greedy basis, but also new players, and to you Lifers out there, this should be of tremendous importance. If I am a new user coming into STO, I have expectations of what the game should feature via my purchase. Granted the game is selling at quite the low price currently, but that doesn't excuse my expectations for fifteen dollars a month. Yes, inflation has occurred since the MMO genre started charging fifteen a month, but economic downturn is also at a high, and so that fifteen a month may mean as much in many ways as it did in the early days of MMOs. So, the price is justified in many ways in the same way that it would have been justified seven years ago. With that justification of price, comes a similar expectation of content, and with the development leaps that MMOs have made in the past ten years, more expectations to boot. So as a new player, someone might be discouraged by all that's on the C-store and not in the game, particularly when Season 2 debuts and ships like the Excelsior and Nebula that appear quite often in the TV shows are in the C-Store and may have game altering mechanics at a certain level. Yes, I know that transwarp is not an I-win button, but it is quite the feature, and while leveling up in Diplomacy will feature a similar offer: this offer does not include being able to transwarp to any sector.
Season 2 has a lot of nice options. It's enough to put me on the edge of sticking around. Particularly with the diplomacy system and because you guys gave me the option to rid myself of the secondary array on the DSSV. But that doesn't mean that Season 2 won't make people upset if they are just joining the game and come to find that a good portion of what appears to be Star Trek, cosmetically or not, is on the C-Store and not even close to being an option just in game. And how about other forums? This isn't the only forum out there to talk about STO. What if people wanted to look up those forums as to find out a less biased or less controlled idea of what STO really is all about?
I understand that despite the dire situation of our global economy and US economy, the fifteen a month might not cover it all the way in terms of great profit. However, I would imagine that the rate of subscriptions lends itself to an exponential increase in profits. So, the more subscriptions STO has, the bigger the profits, the much bigger the profits. And there's longevity to think of. Even if TOR wasn't coming out next year, there would still be longevity problems due to C-Store activity, but with TOR coming out, depending on how they operate and how the game is, there should be much, much more concern for longevity. I think it would be highly beneficial for Cryptic to be more concerned with luring people into the game with all its great achievements in Season 2, than for Cryptic to be concerned with nickel and dimming people on the C-Store.
No, I'm not paid to market STO. I'm paying you to. I, and other posters, should be able to post discussions about this, on the main discussion board freely, as this does not just portend to the C-Store, but also to the future of the game itself. Threads should not necessarily be closed just because it doesn't make Cryptic happy. This is not the early days of STO during its launch phase, where the boards were filled with Cryptic bashing and no constructive criticism.
I'm not one to apologize for Cryptic, but honestly, how many of those threads about the C-Store are constructive? How many of those threads offered anything other than uncivil gripes? It seems to me that if you want your criticism to be heard and taken seriously, you would do well to make it constructive.
i have no complaints of cryptic closing down duplicate threads or threads that have no constructive criticism
i also have no complaints of them moving threads into the appropriate sub forum
its their boards and if they want to keep it tidy then that is their right, if people want to call conspiracy theory because they cant post in the right place of keep discussions to one thread then thats their problem
And there's longevity to think of. Even if TOR wasn't coming out next year, there would still be longevity problems due to C-Store activity, but with TOR coming out, depending on how they operate and how the game is, there should be much, much more concern for longevity. I think it would be highly beneficial for Cryptic to be more concerned with luring people into the game with all its great achievements in Season 2, than for Cryptic to be concerned with nickel and dimming people on the C-Store.
i have no complaints of cryptic closing down duplicate threads or threads that have no constructive criticism
i also have no complaints of them moving threads into the appropriate sub form
its their boards and if they want to keep it tidy then that is their right, if people want to call conspiracy theory because they cant post in the right place of keep discussions to one thread then thats their problem
Cool,
I and other people pay for a product and expect a freer exchange on the forums.
I'm not one to apologize for Cryptic, but honestly, how many of those threads about the C-Store are constructive? How many of those threads offered anything other than uncivil gripes? It seems to me that if you want your criticism to be heard and taken seriously, you would do well to make it constructive.
People ask for things
Cryptic puts it in the C-Store
People say they dont want things in the C-Store
Cryptic ignroes them and puts more things in the C-Store
I wonder why these gripes are so uncivil and unconstructive, eh ?
People ask for things
Cryptic puts it in the C-Store People say they dont want things in the C-Store
Cryptic ignroes them and puts more things in the C-Store
I wonder why these gripes are so uncivil and unconstructive, eh ?
Cool,
I and other people pay for a product and expect a freer exchange on the forums.
well tough, you do not pay for the boards, it is a privilege. its their boards and they can do what they like. read the terms of service about the forums. they can move threads around or close them if they feel like it. if people just posted anything, anywhere, any number of times then the boards would get swamped with spam.
edit - you can more or less say what you like just keep it in the right places, keep it constructive and keep it civil, so things dont get out of hand
im sick of people posting an i quit thread knowing full well that it will be closed then complain that cryptic dont care or are not listing. the only reason they have used the words i quit is to make cryptic close the thread down and then complain they did it. the know full well it will be closed yet they do it anyway.
im tired of seeing people make posts about the c-store in the wrong place then complain that its been moved or buried. no its being moved to the correct place. all you have to do to find it is scroll down the page, find an existing thread that someone has made and post in it. simple
these things are not difficult to do. blaming them for trying to keep order is pointless
"Please Cryptic, can I have some more C-Store wallet raiding ?"
Thats the only response Cryptic are interested in which has become abundantly clear since people have tried and emphasised they dont want the C-Store, dont want items put in the C-Store and definetly do not want the trend of increasing amounts of NON-cosmetic items being slapped into the C-Store, to continue.
Cryptic continue to ignore this and barge on ahead resulting in making their CUSTOMERS get annoyed.
Oh right, its completely the fault of the customers and not Cryptic for this state of affairs.
"Please Cryptic, can I have some more C-Store wallet raiding ?"
Thats the only response Cryptic are interested in which has become abundantly clear since people have tried and emphasised they dont want the C-Store, dont want items put in the C-Store and definetly do not want the trend of increasing amounts of NON-cosmetic items being slapped into the C-Store, to continue.
Cryptic continue to ignore this and barge on ahead resulting in making their CUSTOMERS get annoyed.
Oh right, its completely the fault of the customers and not Cryptic for this state of affairs.
It most certainly is. If you don't like their business practices, don't give them your business. They sell stuff on the C-Store because people buy it. Period.
well tough, you do not pay for the boards, it is a privilege. its their boards and they can do what they like. read the terms of service about the forums. they can move threads around or close them if they feel like it. if people just posted anything, anywhere, any number of times then the boards would get swamped with spam.
edit - you can more or less say what you like just keep it in the right places, keep it constructive and keep it civil, so things dont get out of hand
im sick of people posting an i quit thread knowing full well that it will be closed then complain that cryptic dont care or are not listing. the only reason they have used the words i quit is to make cryptic close the thread down and then complain they did it. the know full well it will be closed yet they do it anyway.
im tired of seeing people make posts about the c-store in the wrong place then complain that its been moved or buried. no its being moved to the correct place. all you have to do to find it is scroll down the page, find an existing thread that someone has made and post in it. simple
these things are not difficult to do. blaming them for trying to keep order is pointless
1.
a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.
2.
a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities: the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
3.
a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.
4.
the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.
5.
any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government: We enjoy the privileges of a free people.
6.
an advantage or source of pleasure granted to a person: It's my privilege to be here.
7.
Stock Exchange . an option to buy or sell stock at a stipulated price for a limited period of time, including puts, calls, spreads, and straddles.
A privilege?
I consider it more of a part of services rendered. A privilege would be more along the lines of the consequence of living at a time when you can pay to play a Star Trek based MMO. The boards are merely a part of the service rendered by the payment.
It most certainly is. If you don't like their business practices, don't give them your business. They sell stuff on the C-Store because people buy it. Period.
Not entirely. If the C-Store manages to make people upset to the point of quitting, it's a fault of Cryptic's marketing strategy to keep players on board and to recruit others. It's a fault in the sense that Cryptic will lose money and for you lifers, that should be incredibly important since your investment in this company is quite substantial by comparison to those of us who can simply quit at any time for less.
Not entirely. If the C-Store manages to make people upset to the point of quitting, it's a fault of Cryptic's marketing strategy to keep players on board and to recruit others. It's a fault in the sense that Cryptic will lose money and for you lifers, that should be incredibly important since your investment in this company is quite substantial by comparison to those of us who can simply quit at any time for less.
well tough, you do not pay for the boards, it is a privilege. its their boards and they can do what they like. read the terms of service about the forums. they can move threads around or close them if they feel like it. if people just posted anything, anywhere, any number of times then the boards would get swamped with spam.
edit - you can more or less say what you like just keep it in the right places, keep it constructive and keep it civil, so things dont get out of hand
im sick of people posting an i quit thread knowing full well that it will be closed then complain that cryptic dont care or are not listing. the only reason they have used the words i quit is to make cryptic close the thread down and then complain they did it. the know full well it will be closed yet they do it anyway.
im tired of seeing people make posts about the c-store in the wrong place then complain that its been moved or buried. no its being moved to the correct place. all you have to do to find it is scroll down the page, find an existing thread that someone has made and post in it. simple
these things are not difficult to do. blaming them for trying to keep order is pointless
Simple, they close the boards, then the subscribers will give the finger, they have to allow the illusion that they are making things right or you will not see this game in a year.
Boards are as important to keeping subscribers as the game. It helps prolong subscriptions and is cheaper then launching a marketing campaign when they do something right. Anyone in a basic E-Commerce class could explain this..... Come on people stop thinking like your hurting feelings and more like your telling a kid who fell off a bike and scraped their knee to "Walk it off" or "throw some dirt on it" and get back to that bike.
I think most of those c store threads should be closed and possibly merged. How many thread topics pertaining to the same subject do we need? Its makes the forums a complete mess and searching the forums sucks. lol
There has been what could be a troubling course of action in the eye of a user on the STO forums with thread closing and comments made by forum moderators.
Discussing moderation gets threads closed. Continually attempting to circumvent moderation gets you infraction points. Collect enough infraction points, you get banned.
If you don't believe me on this ... believe the results from the threads you are citing.
It most certainly is. If you don't like their business practices, don't give them your business. They sell stuff on the C-Store because people buy it. Period.
Hmm. interesting concept. How, exactly, does that work for those of us that have lifetime subscriptions again? I mean, they already have our money and we have a lifetime subscription to a game that is being run into the ground.
One should never play lawn darts with a multimillion dollar aircraft, same thing applies here. I have had no personal issues with the operations of the forums, people tend to put things where they will be seen, and they get moved to someplace that they are supposed to be. Fine, that is not an issue, people should be penalized for FFI (failure to follow instructions). Just as the OP has for some reason felt it necessary to comment on forum moderation.
Hmm. interesting concept. How, exactly, does that work for those of us that have lifetime subscriptions again? I mean, they already have our money and we have a lifetime subscription to a game that is being run into the ground.
One should never play lawn darts with a multimillion dollar aircraft, same thing applies here. I have had no personal issues with the operations of the forums, people tend to put things where they will be seen, and they get moved to someplace that they are supposed to be. Fine, that is not an issue, people should be penalized for FFI (failure to follow instructions). Just as the OP has for some reason felt it necessary to comment on forum moderation.
I'm not sure I understand your question. People with lifetime subscriptions still pay for things on the C-Store.
Discussing moderation gets threads closed. Continually attempting to circumvent moderation gets you infraction points. Collect enough infraction points, you get banned.
If you don't believe me on this ... believe the results from the threads you are citing.
I don't think these rules necessarily have a place. I'm not attempting to circumvent moderation in any event, but am trying to have a discussion about the ramifications of that along with the ramifications of current marketing practices of Cryptic, because I pay money to a game that I would like to succeed and be reasonable to the extent of how it introduces content, i.e. introducing iconic Starships with extra abilities that affect game play on the C-Store as purchasable items without offering a method in-game to acquire. Moderation currently seems to have gone over-board and I merely want to address this. Is that not a viable concern regardless of whether or not you disagree with me?
I hope that this doesn't break any forum regulations, but if it does, I don't feel as if I have been unreasonable and in that case, perhaps the regulations should be amended to at least specify the types of conversation one can have when discussing moderation.
I'm not swearing at the moderators. I'm not swearing at Cryptic. I'm simply trying to invite a civil discussion of a topic that has been bothering me over the last couple of days, and am attempting to refine my argument to a point to where it is best and most politely expressed.
I don't think these rules necessarily have a place. I'm not attempting to circumvent moderation in any event,
They're pretty strict on that rule. But I wrote my comment in larger context of your discussion. You are bringing up the actions of a specific poster (I know which one, and so do you), who created a lot of redundant threads this past week in an attempt to "spam" the message boards with his grievances.
The actions taken are all textbook forum moderation. This has happened before. It will happen again. Your discussion is suggesting that the moderator who moderated this content and this poster was doing it for reasons beyond the forum rules and guidelines.
But I think you're reaching. That poster was clearly violating the rules. And what happened is the same thing that I've seen happen to anyone else who does that. On these forums. On the Champions Forums. Even way back on the old CoH Forums when Cryptic ran things there.
It's really just that simple. No matter what the poster's grievance was ... the poster used the wrong means to deliver that message. And the poster knew the risks. And deals with the consequences.
The lesson here?
Don't make 'Call to War' threads. Don't facilitate forum spam. Don't create Forum Spam. Don't aggressively question moderators when threads get moderated. And don't pick fights there's absolutely no point in picking.
That's not how you deliver feedback or offer criticism.
That's how you get banned.
And guess what happened to the person who went on that crusade? It really is just as simple as that. I think if it had been Tishyen or Stormshade or Q who pulled the plug on those threads, this thread wouldn't even exist.
I mean, they already have our money and we have a lifetime subscription to a game that is being run into the ground.
That is your opinion. But you must understand that cryptic cant bend to your every opinion. And who knows? Many things could change with the c store if enough players post constructive criticism not liking item prices, certain ships or player account expansions. Nothing is set in stone here.
I can't blame cryptic for closing so many threads. Who would ever think that in a star trek forums there would be so many forcing their own opinions onto others and start a flame war when they do not see eye to eye. Quoting peoples opinions and engaging them in an adversarial manor? I figured this community would be a lot more mature about this. I guess I was wrong. lol
I can't blame cryptic for closing so many threads. Who would ever think that in a star trek forums there would be so many forcing their own opinions onto others and start a flame war when they do not see eye to eye. Quoting peoples opinions and engaging them in an adversarial manor? I figured this community would be a lot more mature about this. I guess I was wrong. lol
In defense of this community of gamers ... it's been my experience that even with the occasional crusade/spamfest/rant thread/flame war ...
That the STO community has been one of the most mature and reasonable video game communities I've ever been a part of.
I compare these forums to, say, the Madden 2010 forums ... or the World of Warcraft Forums ... and STO comes out far more mature.
They're pretty strict on that rule. But I wrote my comment in larger context of your discussion. You are bringing up the actions of a specific poster (I know which one, and so do you), who created a lot of redundant threads this past week in an attempt to "spam" the message boards with his grievances.
The actions taken are all textbook forum moderation. This has happened before. It will happen again. Your discussion is suggesting that the moderator who moderated this content and this poster was doing it for reasons beyond the forum rules and guidelines.
But I think you're reaching. That poster was clearly violating the rules. And what happened is the same thing that I've seen happen to anyone else who does that. On these forums. On the Champions Forums. Even way back on the old CoH Forums when Cryptic ran things there.
It's really just that simple. No matter what the poster's grievance was ... the poster used the wrong means to deliver that message. And the poster knew the risks. And deals with the consequences.
The lesson here?
Don't make 'Call to War' threads. Don't facilitate forum spam. Don't create Forum Spam. Don't aggressively question moderators when threads get moderated. And don't pick fights there's absolutely no point in picking.
That's not how you deliver feedback or offer criticism.
That's how you get banned.
And guess what happened to the person who went on that crusade? It really is just as simple as that.
Actually, I don't know what poster you're referencing and I apologize for my ignorance on the subject. I saw a couple of posts and didn't pay attention to whether or not there was a frequency in terms of poster, probably because with the way of things over the past week or so, I haven't been as active on the forums.
There was just some threads that seemed closed far too quickly and with a quick comment or remark that seemed unjustified to an extent.
Perhaps in my own ignorance, I have made an error, I hope not.
Perhaps I have posted a similar thread too much. I'm not sure. I feel as though I've been refining an argument for some time. I want to make the best possible case for it because on one hand, I really don't want to quit STO, but the way things have been going lately are bothering me enough to where I'm not sure what to do about that.
I mean, Cryptic has improved this game by leaps and bounds, but then suddenly decides to do things that seem counter-productive to moving this game further in a way that grows the subscriber base.
I think part of the problem is that these arguments seem to be just summarily dismissed as opposed to discussed by Cryptic. I realize that they have talked about how the C-Store pays for the C-Store, but then they've made arguments that the C-Store items should not have a huge affect on in-game play. However, the Excelsior will.
These aren't just C-Store problems, this is a problem where the game seems to be headed, and I think it's worthy of that larger discussion.
Actually, I don't know what poster you're referencing and I apologize for my ignorance on the subject.
Rekhan moderated some threads and moderated a poster. Then some people got on Rekhan for doing so since he's no longer the community rep but is now the marketing rep. I read this topic to be discussing those actions?
I agree with you on this Superchum, there are proper ways to get yourself heard.
I'd say though that the main reason threads are closed is because a lot of people seem to be taking it personally, getting aggresive with the team because they believe that they're not being listened to. (I've participated in several of the locked topics, if you'd like to know my credentials on the matter) Are they really going to listen to you any more if you don't do what they ask you to? I don't think they would.
I'm not sure I understand your question. People with lifetime subscriptions still pay for things on the C-Store.
There is a big difference between not purchasing on the c-store and having the ability to cancel your account and thus refuse to give them any money at all. I have already decided not to purchase any more cryptic points but that does not mean that I can feasibly cancel my account. My ire therefore carries little weight compared to monthly subscribers.
The only thing I can do is not login anymore which only hurts me though empty servers would make it really hard to gain more subscriptions.
For both sides of the argument though, there is an old saying that I will rephrase here and that is "don't defecate where you ingest". That goes for Cryptic and for the community, however since Cryptic holds all of the cards in both the forums and the games, our only vent is to complain vociferously enough that someone is forced to pay attention.
Of course this causes a lot of trouble in the forums as this thread points out however it is also our only option since there is no back-and-forth discourse between the corporation and it's clientel.
Of course this causes a lot of trouble in the forums as this thread points out however it is also our only option since there is no back-and-forth discourse between the corporation and it's clientel.
And hence, we reach the main gist of my argument. I feel like the 'us or them' attitude that many people are peddling is actually making it less likely for us to be listened to. As soon as one person says that Cryptic won't listen, it's likely that any devs reading the topic will switch off.
There is a big difference between not purchasing on the c-store and having the ability to cancel your account and thus refuse to give them any money at all. I have already decided not to purchase any more cryptic points but that does not mean that I can feasibly cancel my account. My ire therefore carries little weight compared to monthly subscribers.
The only thing I can do is not login anymore which only hurts me though empty servers would make it really hard to gain more subscriptions.
For both sides of the argument though, there is an old saying that I will rephrase here and that is "don't defecate where you ingest". That goes for Cryptic and for the community, however since Cryptic holds all of the cards in both the forums and the games, our only vent is to complain vociferously enough that someone is forced to pay attention.
Of course this causes a lot of trouble in the forums as this thread points out however it is also our only option since there is no back-and-forth discourse between the corporation and it's clientel.
That's it! And we have make these arguments, but with the exception of developers, there isn't a lot of meaningful conversation back and forth about the arguments that some of the player base is making.
Superchum,
It's those threads too. It's the non-petition bit, and it's the lack of any discussion of these things. Cryptic doesn't seem to want to talk to users about the C-Store in a way that talks about the economic impact of it and whether its entirely appropriate in some places. That's unnerving for a client of a business to deal with. If I walk into a retail store and have a complaint, there's discussion about it and possibly a number to discuss with the corporation more about the problem. it doesn't feel ignored at the end of the day.
And hence, we reach the main gist of my argument. I feel like the 'us or them' attitude that many people are peddling is actually making it less likely for us to be listened to. As soon as one person says that Cryptic won't listen, it's likely that any devs reading the topic will switch off.
That is only because it has been shown to be true over a prolonged period of time. As soon as something shows up in the forums they don't want to hear, fingers are in ears and a loud LALALALALA I can't hear you can almost be heard over the internet. I wish it were not the case but history shows different.
That "us or them" attitude you are pointing out is more of a corporate policy, they have the ability to shut down threads and move them elsewhere when they become inconvenient. As a valid example, unlocking DStahl's thread to attempt to have it "go away". They couldn't move it at the time from their own policy and since it is linked on the launcher page and was created by a lead. This kind of reaction proves the point.
Comments
i also have no complaints of them moving threads into the appropriate sub forum
its their boards and if they want to keep it tidy then that is their right, if people want to call conspiracy theory because they cant post in the right place of keep discussions to one thread then thats their problem
there ya go
/10chars
Cool,
I and other people pay for a product and expect a freer exchange on the forums.
People ask for things
Cryptic puts it in the C-Store
People say they dont want things in the C-Store
Cryptic ignroes them and puts more things in the C-Store
I wonder why these gripes are so uncivil and unconstructive, eh ?
It's not what you say, it's how you say it, eh?
well tough, you do not pay for the boards, it is a privilege. its their boards and they can do what they like. read the terms of service about the forums. they can move threads around or close them if they feel like it. if people just posted anything, anywhere, any number of times then the boards would get swamped with spam.
edit - you can more or less say what you like just keep it in the right places, keep it constructive and keep it civil, so things dont get out of hand
im sick of people posting an i quit thread knowing full well that it will be closed then complain that cryptic dont care or are not listing. the only reason they have used the words i quit is to make cryptic close the thread down and then complain they did it. the know full well it will be closed yet they do it anyway.
im tired of seeing people make posts about the c-store in the wrong place then complain that its been moved or buried. no its being moved to the correct place. all you have to do to find it is scroll down the page, find an existing thread that someone has made and post in it. simple
these things are not difficult to do. blaming them for trying to keep order is pointless
"Please Cryptic, can I have some more C-Store wallet raiding ?"
Thats the only response Cryptic are interested in which has become abundantly clear since people have tried and emphasised they dont want the C-Store, dont want items put in the C-Store and definetly do not want the trend of increasing amounts of NON-cosmetic items being slapped into the C-Store, to continue.
Cryptic continue to ignore this and barge on ahead resulting in making their CUSTOMERS get annoyed.
Oh right, its completely the fault of the customers and not Cryptic for this state of affairs.
It most certainly is. If you don't like their business practices, don't give them your business. They sell stuff on the C-Store because people buy it. Period.
A privilege?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege?qsrc=2446
1.
a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.
2.
a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities: the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
3.
a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.
4.
the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.
5.
any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government: We enjoy the privileges of a free people.
6.
an advantage or source of pleasure granted to a person: It's my privilege to be here.
7.
Stock Exchange . an option to buy or sell stock at a stipulated price for a limited period of time, including puts, calls, spreads, and straddles.
A privilege?
I consider it more of a part of services rendered. A privilege would be more along the lines of the consequence of living at a time when you can pay to play a Star Trek based MMO. The boards are merely a part of the service rendered by the payment.
Not entirely. If the C-Store manages to make people upset to the point of quitting, it's a fault of Cryptic's marketing strategy to keep players on board and to recruit others. It's a fault in the sense that Cryptic will lose money and for you lifers, that should be incredibly important since your investment in this company is quite substantial by comparison to those of us who can simply quit at any time for less.
I'm not a lifer. Where'd you get that idea?
Simple, they close the boards, then the subscribers will give the finger, they have to allow the illusion that they are making things right or you will not see this game in a year.
Boards are as important to keeping subscribers as the game. It helps prolong subscriptions and is cheaper then launching a marketing campaign when they do something right. Anyone in a basic E-Commerce class could explain this..... Come on people stop thinking like your hurting feelings and more like your telling a kid who fell off a bike and scraped their knee to "Walk it off" or "throw some dirt on it" and get back to that bike.
Discussing moderation gets threads closed. Continually attempting to circumvent moderation gets you infraction points. Collect enough infraction points, you get banned.
If you don't believe me on this ... believe the results from the threads you are citing.
Hmm. interesting concept. How, exactly, does that work for those of us that have lifetime subscriptions again? I mean, they already have our money and we have a lifetime subscription to a game that is being run into the ground.
One should never play lawn darts with a multimillion dollar aircraft, same thing applies here. I have had no personal issues with the operations of the forums, people tend to put things where they will be seen, and they get moved to someplace that they are supposed to be. Fine, that is not an issue, people should be penalized for FFI (failure to follow instructions). Just as the OP has for some reason felt it necessary to comment on forum moderation.
I'm not sure I understand your question. People with lifetime subscriptions still pay for things on the C-Store.
My apologies.
I don't think these rules necessarily have a place. I'm not attempting to circumvent moderation in any event, but am trying to have a discussion about the ramifications of that along with the ramifications of current marketing practices of Cryptic, because I pay money to a game that I would like to succeed and be reasonable to the extent of how it introduces content, i.e. introducing iconic Starships with extra abilities that affect game play on the C-Store as purchasable items without offering a method in-game to acquire. Moderation currently seems to have gone over-board and I merely want to address this. Is that not a viable concern regardless of whether or not you disagree with me?
I hope that this doesn't break any forum regulations, but if it does, I don't feel as if I have been unreasonable and in that case, perhaps the regulations should be amended to at least specify the types of conversation one can have when discussing moderation.
I'm not swearing at the moderators. I'm not swearing at Cryptic. I'm simply trying to invite a civil discussion of a topic that has been bothering me over the last couple of days, and am attempting to refine my argument to a point to where it is best and most politely expressed.
They're pretty strict on that rule. But I wrote my comment in larger context of your discussion. You are bringing up the actions of a specific poster (I know which one, and so do you), who created a lot of redundant threads this past week in an attempt to "spam" the message boards with his grievances.
The actions taken are all textbook forum moderation. This has happened before. It will happen again. Your discussion is suggesting that the moderator who moderated this content and this poster was doing it for reasons beyond the forum rules and guidelines.
But I think you're reaching. That poster was clearly violating the rules. And what happened is the same thing that I've seen happen to anyone else who does that. On these forums. On the Champions Forums. Even way back on the old CoH Forums when Cryptic ran things there.
It's really just that simple. No matter what the poster's grievance was ... the poster used the wrong means to deliver that message. And the poster knew the risks. And deals with the consequences.
The lesson here?
Don't make 'Call to War' threads. Don't facilitate forum spam. Don't create Forum Spam. Don't aggressively question moderators when threads get moderated. And don't pick fights there's absolutely no point in picking.
That's not how you deliver feedback or offer criticism.
That's how you get banned.
And guess what happened to the person who went on that crusade? It really is just as simple as that. I think if it had been Tishyen or Stormshade or Q who pulled the plug on those threads, this thread wouldn't even exist.
It doesn't. But please understand there are players like myself that like what cryptic is doing (c store).
That is your opinion. But you must understand that cryptic cant bend to your every opinion. And who knows? Many things could change with the c store if enough players post constructive criticism not liking item prices, certain ships or player account expansions. Nothing is set in stone here.
I can't blame cryptic for closing so many threads. Who would ever think that in a star trek forums there would be so many forcing their own opinions onto others and start a flame war when they do not see eye to eye. Quoting peoples opinions and engaging them in an adversarial manor? I figured this community would be a lot more mature about this. I guess I was wrong. lol
In defense of this community of gamers ... it's been my experience that even with the occasional crusade/spamfest/rant thread/flame war ...
That the STO community has been one of the most mature and reasonable video game communities I've ever been a part of.
I compare these forums to, say, the Madden 2010 forums ... or the World of Warcraft Forums ... and STO comes out far more mature.
Actually, I don't know what poster you're referencing and I apologize for my ignorance on the subject. I saw a couple of posts and didn't pay attention to whether or not there was a frequency in terms of poster, probably because with the way of things over the past week or so, I haven't been as active on the forums.
There was just some threads that seemed closed far too quickly and with a quick comment or remark that seemed unjustified to an extent.
Perhaps in my own ignorance, I have made an error, I hope not.
Perhaps I have posted a similar thread too much. I'm not sure. I feel as though I've been refining an argument for some time. I want to make the best possible case for it because on one hand, I really don't want to quit STO, but the way things have been going lately are bothering me enough to where I'm not sure what to do about that.
I mean, Cryptic has improved this game by leaps and bounds, but then suddenly decides to do things that seem counter-productive to moving this game further in a way that grows the subscriber base.
I think part of the problem is that these arguments seem to be just summarily dismissed as opposed to discussed by Cryptic. I realize that they have talked about how the C-Store pays for the C-Store, but then they've made arguments that the C-Store items should not have a huge affect on in-game play. However, the Excelsior will.
These aren't just C-Store problems, this is a problem where the game seems to be headed, and I think it's worthy of that larger discussion.
I'll half to take your work on that, i never played madden or wow.
Rekhan moderated some threads and moderated a poster. Then some people got on Rekhan for doing so since he's no longer the community rep but is now the marketing rep. I read this topic to be discussing those actions?
I'd say though that the main reason threads are closed is because a lot of people seem to be taking it personally, getting aggresive with the team because they believe that they're not being listened to. (I've participated in several of the locked topics, if you'd like to know my credentials on the matter) Are they really going to listen to you any more if you don't do what they ask you to? I don't think they would.
There is a big difference between not purchasing on the c-store and having the ability to cancel your account and thus refuse to give them any money at all. I have already decided not to purchase any more cryptic points but that does not mean that I can feasibly cancel my account. My ire therefore carries little weight compared to monthly subscribers.
The only thing I can do is not login anymore which only hurts me though empty servers would make it really hard to gain more subscriptions.
For both sides of the argument though, there is an old saying that I will rephrase here and that is "don't defecate where you ingest". That goes for Cryptic and for the community, however since Cryptic holds all of the cards in both the forums and the games, our only vent is to complain vociferously enough that someone is forced to pay attention.
Of course this causes a lot of trouble in the forums as this thread points out however it is also our only option since there is no back-and-forth discourse between the corporation and it's clientel.
That's it! And we have make these arguments, but with the exception of developers, there isn't a lot of meaningful conversation back and forth about the arguments that some of the player base is making.
Superchum,
It's those threads too. It's the non-petition bit, and it's the lack of any discussion of these things. Cryptic doesn't seem to want to talk to users about the C-Store in a way that talks about the economic impact of it and whether its entirely appropriate in some places. That's unnerving for a client of a business to deal with. If I walk into a retail store and have a complaint, there's discussion about it and possibly a number to discuss with the corporation more about the problem. it doesn't feel ignored at the end of the day.
That is only because it has been shown to be true over a prolonged period of time. As soon as something shows up in the forums they don't want to hear, fingers are in ears and a loud LALALALALA I can't hear you can almost be heard over the internet. I wish it were not the case but history shows different.
That "us or them" attitude you are pointing out is more of a corporate policy, they have the ability to shut down threads and move them elsewhere when they become inconvenient. As a valid example, unlocking DStahl's thread to attempt to have it "go away". They couldn't move it at the time from their own policy and since it is linked on the launcher page and was created by a lead. This kind of reaction proves the point.