Listen to your fans - the hallways are just TOO big. I read that you aren't going to make smaller hallways any longer even though you promised they would be in game? I don't feel like I'm on a Federation ship when I'm walking down the hallways - 25+ seasons of Star Trek and I've NEVER seen hallways that huge. No immersion factor when every season has shown us realistic sized hallways/corridors.
However why don't they just disable camera collision is beyond me. They could make it so its automatically disabled in certain places, like ship interiors.
And from there just make it so the ceiling, walls or floor "disappear" whenever the camera is looking through them. The Sims anyone?
However why don't they just disable camera collision is beyond me. They could make it so its automatically disabled in certain places, like ship interiors.
my point to the whole "the camera doesn't work here" argument is still:
" If the camera doesn't work.... wouldn't it make sense to just... I dunno ...... fix the camera ? "
However why don't they just disable camera collision is beyond me. They could make it so its automatically disabled in certain places, like ship interiors.
Once again it comes into the light that the issue isn't that properly-scaled ship interiors can't be done, but that the camera is broken. And rather than treat the cause of the problem (a broken camera), they'd rather give us huge interiors to alleviate the symptoms.
In the end, the game is still sick - it just feels a little better.
Listen to your fans - the hallways are just TOO big. I read that you aren't going to make smaller hallways any longer even though you promised they would be in game?
when did they ever promise small cooridors? Infact, I distinctly remember the opposite...one of the devs (if I recall) said that the interiors would be the big versions, because all interiors were built for combat (starbases, abandoned ships, lol) and would be reused for the player interiors.
They said it would take significant resources to design and build new ones and they have other priorities instead
I'm not saying they wont eventually make smaller interiors, but I don't think they ever promised them either.
when did they ever promise small cooridors? Infact, I distinctly remember the opposite...one of the devs (if I recall) said that the interiors would be the big versions, because all interiors were built for combat (starbases, abandoned ships, lol) and would be reused for the player interiors.
They said it would take significant resources to design and build new ones and they have other priorities instead
I'm not saying they wont eventually make smaller interiors, but I don't think they ever promised them either.
They did, really. Don't remember where, but they did said that once they got the tech right and other priorities straight, the art dept would remake the ship interiors and some other things as well.
But the real issue is that the game WAS rushed. It's playable, it is cool and i ain't gonna say it's broken, but it was rushed using Champions Online engine so that Cryptic had SOMETHING to show to CBS. Ain't their fault really, its PERPETUAL's fault, because they dragged STO development for years without doing nothing more than some concept art.
It is my belief and hope that they released the game as it is because they had a short release window, and that they WILL update and reprogram the game engine as it goes.
They could make smaller corridors for when it's just you running around on your ship instead of you with 4 bridge officers. They said this earlier, I remember distinctly, but no idea where.
Still, I agree. Fix the camera problem and then you can scale at least some of it down. For interior missions you need the ability for 5 people to move and fight, ok. You could start by modifying the formation the boffs take behind you for a smaller area. Make it a longer V so it takes less width.
For now I'd be ok with smaller versions of the interiors for when it's just you running around doing mini-games in sickbay and engineering. I don't think it's too much to ask, though I understand it will take time.
....
Still, I agree. Fix the camera problem and then you can scale at least some of it down. For interior missions you need the ability for 5 people to move and fight, ok. You could start by modifying the formation the boffs take behind you for a smaller area. Make it a longer V so it takes less width. ......
Baldurs Gate is a good example of tactical team formation options that worked pretty good. Simple, and fast.
They did, really. Don't remember where, but they did said that once they got the tech right and other priorities straight, the art dept would remake the ship interiors and some other things as well.
But the real issue is that the game WAS rushed. It's playable, it is cool and i ain't gonna say it's broken, but it was rushed using Champions Online engine so that Cryptic had SOMETHING to show to CBS. Ain't their fault really, its PERPETUAL's fault, because they dragged STO development for years without doing nothing more than some concept art.
It is my belief and hope that they released the game as it is because they had a short release window, and that they WILL update and reprogram the game engine as it goes.
I dunno about that. A lot of people like to say that Perpetual didn't do much, but I'm not convinced. We see a lot of their models showing up in today's STO, even their login screen is the same. Some of the basic concepts are there too. When it comes down to it, I think CBS wanted their game OMGMAKEITNOWZPLOX and were tired of waiting when they saw the franchise getting ready for its reboot. CBS makes television, not video games, and they didn't seem to grasp that MMOs require considerable development periods.
Baldurs Gate is a good example of tactical team formation options that worked pretty good. Simple, and fast.
.
Star Wars Galaxies has correcly-scaled interiors. So does World Of Warcraft.
Both games have intense, interior battle... and their cameras work just fine. I don't see anyone on their forums complaining about the camera clipping, but as long as STO has massive interiors, players will be unhappy.
I'm befuddled (and increasingly disappointed) in the decisions made by Cryptic.
Star Wars Galaxies has correcly-scaled interiors. So does World Of Warcraft.
Both games have intense, interior battle... and their cameras work just fine. I don't see anyone on their forums complaining about the camera clipping, but as long as STO has massive interiors, players will be unhappy.
I'm befuddled (and increasingly disappointed) in the decisions made by Cryptic.
I tend to agree with you wholeheartedly especially on the camera clipping.
I dunno about that. A lot of people like to say that Perpetual didn't do much, but I'm not convinced. We see a lot of their models showing up in today's STO, even their login screen is the same. Some of the basic concepts are there too. When it comes down to it, I think CBS wanted their game OMGMAKEITNOWZPLOX and were tired of waiting when they saw the franchise getting ready for its reboot. CBS makes television, not video games, and they didn't seem to grasp that MMOs require considerable development periods.
Yeah, Zinc said it himself last year during STO development that they had access to all Perpetual property, although it wasn't much to begin with, just some loose models and concept art (3D sets like the Galaxy bridge included).
Loose models and concept art might seem like good material, but that is ALL they had to show for 5 years of work.
when did they ever promise small cooridors? Infact, I distinctly remember the opposite...one of the devs (if I recall) said that the interiors would be the big versions, because all interiors were built for combat (starbases, abandoned ships, lol) and would be reused for the player interiors.
They said it would take significant resources to design and build new ones and they have other priorities instead
I'm not saying they wont eventually make smaller interiors, but I don't think they ever promised them either.
It has been said several times by the Dev team the interiors would have 2 scales, a combat/large scale and a noncobat small corridor scale. From the 15 foot tall LCARS stations to the properly scaled doors in a corridor wide enough for eight people to walk down side by side, I can honestly say my faith is being shaken as well.
Bigger doesn't always mean epic and everything in this game is being done as big as possible, jesus just look at the player models. Default male is a buff Marine with a max PT test score and the women..well they give Elvira a run for her money at default.
Yeah, Zinc said it himself last year during STO development that they had access to all Perpetual property, although it wasn't much to begin with, just some loose models and concept art (3D sets like the Galaxy bridge included).
Loose models and concept art might seem like good material, but that is ALL they had to show for 5 years of work.
Keep in mind Perpetual was also building an engine to make the game work. Cryptic did it the other way around. I think that's a big part of why we see the community as upset as it is - ultimately these issues boil down to engine limitations.
Keep in mind Perpetual was also building an engine to make the game work. Cryptic did it the other way around. I think that's a big part of why we see the community as upset as it is - ultimately these issues boil down to engine limitations.
An engine which Cryptic wrote themselves, and can presumably modify.
That's why I believe that the massive interiors have been mandated from a claustrophobic manager. In fact, COH used a seperate engine and they have large interiors as well (through the offices were pretty good).
What if it isn't the engine that is preventing the small corridors? Putting the camera into a noclipping mode and shrinking the rooms would kill the engine, it would reveal all the rooms and corridors floating in the darkness beyond the walls. The new interiors and the SB1 glitch shows there are rooms and halls tucked away that even though you must zone load to get there, they are on the same mat.
hell simple fix that wouldn't show us the rubbish hidden in the dark. When not in space, roll over to first person view. I know it isn't an easy fix but it sure kills the camera and scale problems.
I find that walking in the hallways makes me sad, because nobody talks to anyone, and only a few unlucky crew members are doing all the work, everyone else just crowds up and bunches up the hallway so I have to go around them. The rooms themselves feel really cool because there's interesting new art and furnature there, although there are no patients in sickbay and no scientists running experiments in either lab.
There are no dialogs, no missions to do, no tests to run, no mini-games to play, no computers to read history, no bartender, no venders, my Doctor Bridge Officer never leaves the bridge, my Chief Engineer is never found in Engineering, my orion slave bridge officer never visits my quarters... I assume most of these will be added at some point, but I fear there will be backlash for releasing interiors without these kinds of details and even more backlash if they are delayed any more.
I can't wait to see improvements and location additions to interiors, such as an astrometics lab, cargo bay, and holodeck (perhaps with a holodeck test room like the one in Voyager). When UGC hits, interiors will be a roleplayers paradise.
Star Wars Galaxies has correcly-scaled interiors. So does World Of Warcraft.
Both games have intense, interior battle... and their cameras work just fine. I don't see anyone on their forums complaining about the camera clipping, but as long as STO has massive interiors, players will be unhappy.
I'm befuddled (and increasingly disappointed) in the decisions made by Cryptic.
Yep,
SWG is still a good example. The sizes were correct and we could fight like crazy in it ! :eek:
Really? Are we already nitpicking the interiors even given how there's much more needed things to attend to? I personally don't care about how big the hallways, it would be nice if they got fixed but I'd rather see them put more work into more Klingon missions and content, focus on the things that are SERIOUSLY lacking.
Really? Are we already nitpicking the interiors even given how there's much more needed things to attend to? I personally don't care about how big the hallways, it would be nice if they got fixed but I'd rather see them put more work into more Klingon missions and content, focus on the things that are SERIOUSLY lacking.
So the largest player base should be unhappy with content that didn't meet expectations in order to satiate the needs/wants of the smallest player base? Why didn't I think of that before? It makes total sense!
Really? Are we already nitpicking the interiors even given how there's much more needed things to attend to? I personally don't care about how big the hallways, it would be nice if they got fixed but I'd rather see them put more work into more Klingon missions and content, focus on the things that are SERIOUSLY lacking.
I think it's simply: "If you're going to bother putting the interiors in, at least make them look right and do something."
Really? Are we already nitpicking the interiors even given how there's much more needed things to attend to?...
Yes, we're nitpicking... because expressing our thoughts on a feature while it's still in beta/test servers is what the test servers is about in the first place. Once it's live, the chances of effecting change go down drastically.
The devs are currently committed to delivering interiors. The players are committed to making sure our desires are met.
As for the size - you may not care about the physical size, but they're game-breaking for me.
*EDIT*
Compare the following samples provided by MOJO. That doesn't bother you?
Comments
/sign !!!!
or make all of us 20 feet tall..... whichever.... I'm flexible
.
However why don't they just disable camera collision is beyond me. They could make it so its automatically disabled in certain places, like ship interiors.
And from there just make it so the ceiling, walls or floor "disappear" whenever the camera is looking through them. The Sims anyone?
my point to the whole "the camera doesn't work here" argument is still:
" If the camera doesn't work.... wouldn't it make sense to just... I dunno ...... fix the camera ? "
.:rolleyes::cool: ...
You ninja quoted a post in editing
heh .. ya I did..
but I didnt hurt anything... I dont think.
*crash !
oops
Once again it comes into the light that the issue isn't that properly-scaled ship interiors can't be done, but that the camera is broken. And rather than treat the cause of the problem (a broken camera), they'd rather give us huge interiors to alleviate the symptoms.
In the end, the game is still sick - it just feels a little better.
when did they ever promise small cooridors? Infact, I distinctly remember the opposite...one of the devs (if I recall) said that the interiors would be the big versions, because all interiors were built for combat (starbases, abandoned ships, lol) and would be reused for the player interiors.
They said it would take significant resources to design and build new ones and they have other priorities instead
I'm not saying they wont eventually make smaller interiors, but I don't think they ever promised them either.
think the design artist could have made some attempt to fix this a bit..lol
They did, really. Don't remember where, but they did said that once they got the tech right and other priorities straight, the art dept would remake the ship interiors and some other things as well.
But the real issue is that the game WAS rushed. It's playable, it is cool and i ain't gonna say it's broken, but it was rushed using Champions Online engine so that Cryptic had SOMETHING to show to CBS. Ain't their fault really, its PERPETUAL's fault, because they dragged STO development for years without doing nothing more than some concept art.
It is my belief and hope that they released the game as it is because they had a short release window, and that they WILL update and reprogram the game engine as it goes.
Still, I agree. Fix the camera problem and then you can scale at least some of it down. For interior missions you need the ability for 5 people to move and fight, ok. You could start by modifying the formation the boffs take behind you for a smaller area. Make it a longer V so it takes less width.
For now I'd be ok with smaller versions of the interiors for when it's just you running around doing mini-games in sickbay and engineering. I don't think it's too much to ask, though I understand it will take time.
Baldurs Gate is a good example of tactical team formation options that worked pretty good. Simple, and fast.
.
I dunno about that. A lot of people like to say that Perpetual didn't do much, but I'm not convinced. We see a lot of their models showing up in today's STO, even their login screen is the same. Some of the basic concepts are there too. When it comes down to it, I think CBS wanted their game OMGMAKEITNOWZPLOX and were tired of waiting when they saw the franchise getting ready for its reboot. CBS makes television, not video games, and they didn't seem to grasp that MMOs require considerable development periods.
I wish we could reduce or even eliminate the crewmembers and replace them with stationary ones.
Star Wars Galaxies has correcly-scaled interiors. So does World Of Warcraft.
Both games have intense, interior battle... and their cameras work just fine. I don't see anyone on their forums complaining about the camera clipping, but as long as STO has massive interiors, players will be unhappy.
I'm befuddled (and increasingly disappointed) in the decisions made by Cryptic.
I tend to agree with you wholeheartedly especially on the camera clipping.
Yeah, Zinc said it himself last year during STO development that they had access to all Perpetual property, although it wasn't much to begin with, just some loose models and concept art (3D sets like the Galaxy bridge included).
Loose models and concept art might seem like good material, but that is ALL they had to show for 5 years of work.
It has been said several times by the Dev team the interiors would have 2 scales, a combat/large scale and a noncobat small corridor scale. From the 15 foot tall LCARS stations to the properly scaled doors in a corridor wide enough for eight people to walk down side by side, I can honestly say my faith is being shaken as well.
Bigger doesn't always mean epic and everything in this game is being done as big as possible, jesus just look at the player models. Default male is a buff Marine with a max PT test score and the women..well they give Elvira a run for her money at default.
Keep in mind Perpetual was also building an engine to make the game work. Cryptic did it the other way around. I think that's a big part of why we see the community as upset as it is - ultimately these issues boil down to engine limitations.
An engine which Cryptic wrote themselves, and can presumably modify.
That's why I believe that the massive interiors have been mandated from a claustrophobic manager. In fact, COH used a seperate engine and they have large interiors as well (through the offices were pretty good).
hell simple fix that wouldn't show us the rubbish hidden in the dark. When not in space, roll over to first person view. I know it isn't an easy fix but it sure kills the camera and scale problems.
There are no dialogs, no missions to do, no tests to run, no mini-games to play, no computers to read history, no bartender, no venders, my Doctor Bridge Officer never leaves the bridge, my Chief Engineer is never found in Engineering, my orion slave bridge officer never visits my quarters... I assume most of these will be added at some point, but I fear there will be backlash for releasing interiors without these kinds of details and even more backlash if they are delayed any more.
I can't wait to see improvements and location additions to interiors, such as an astrometics lab, cargo bay, and holodeck (perhaps with a holodeck test room like the one in Voyager). When UGC hits, interiors will be a roleplayers paradise.
Yep,
SWG is still a good example. The sizes were correct and we could fight like crazy in it ! :eek:
Why it's not possible with STO ? the camera ? ...
It's possible, but character's don't clip in WoW, you could have 30 people standing in the same spot in WoW but in STO there can be only 1.
So the largest player base should be unhappy with content that didn't meet expectations in order to satiate the needs/wants of the smallest player base? Why didn't I think of that before? It makes total sense!
I think it's simply: "If you're going to bother putting the interiors in, at least make them look right and do something."
Yes, we're nitpicking... because expressing our thoughts on a feature while it's still in beta/test servers is what the test servers is about in the first place. Once it's live, the chances of effecting change go down drastically.
The devs are currently committed to delivering interiors. The players are committed to making sure our desires are met.
As for the size - you may not care about the physical size, but they're game-breaking for me.
*EDIT*
Compare the following samples provided by MOJO. That doesn't bother you?
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs221.snc4/38366_448161578898_553573898_5941436_1593159_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs201.snc4/38366_448161558898_553573898_5941432_5773404_n.jpg
They should contact the guys who made The Sims and have them come up with NPC algorithms for this game.
lol..perfect example....
you know .....you'd think that this day and age of video game design........
.