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PVP Ideas

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Right now STO has a poorly developed PVP system. There is a way to combine PVP with PVE In STO. The idea formulated when I was playing Global Agenda(Indie developed MMOTPS) and they have missions that combine opposing PVP teams within a PVE mission. It could go something like this. Two opposing teams would enter a queue and a mission would be generated much like the explore and daily missions. It would be player and NPC missions on both sides and could be a mixture of ground and space. The rewards could consist of skill points, BO skill points, credits, very rare drops, etc. Now personally I would love to see more of a sandbox PVP setup with opposing teams fighting over player owned sectors/planets/stations etc. but this is way outside of the box. The game states we are in a war so let's get something better then "capture the flag"

/thoughts, ideas?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Is your suggestion not basically the same as kerrat? I know it never alters, but it is basically 2 opposing teams go into the instance, both fight over the mission objective and whoever completes it wins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Syrinx wrote:
    Is your suggestion not basically the same as kerrat? I know it never alters, but it is basically 2 opposing teams go into the instance, both fight over the mission objective and whoever completes it wins.

    No not at all. The open space zones are terrible at best. Camping and no real competitive objective. No I am suggesting generated missions with kling and feds with opposing npc and players. Think of it as a normal PVE mission like in the main storyline. You could do missions like protecting the command ship, assaulting/defending stations etc. This would be more in depth then the current capture the flag system or an open space zone that is the samething 24/7.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    In another thread I suggested the same idea of pvp-oriented missions held with an open pvp sector that could be fought over for the right to "do" the missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This might end up being a bit of a hijack but I will ask it anyways. Why do you think STO needs PvP at all?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    big ups to revamping the mining operation PVP map. That has huge potential for a good tactical gametype, but currently it sucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    This might end up being a bit of a hijack but I will ask it anyways. Why do you think STO needs PvP at all?

    That begs the question of why would the game need anything at all? The game was laid out with Klings being a PVP faction. Also many online players play online games to play with humans and not AI. You can do that in a single player game. Many people who play online MMO's define "end user content" as PVP in many cases. You would have a valid point if you were forced to participate and in this type of model you would not be. If Cryptic is going to put in PVP in its game it might as well go all out instead of its half baked attempt that is currently active. I'm not attacking you but those types of comments are killers in MMO titles. I could say "hey I think this game should have player built cities" and you could get several people if not more saying "why does it need that?". This game doesn't need anything, its all about want and how far the community wants to try and push the boundaries of this game. Cryptic has the money (subs, C-store) and the resources to make this an all out sandbox game with customization down to the smallest detail. This is a living game and the community player base drives its future and direction.

    Season 2, you will see such trivial things as mini-games and ship interiors, needed? No, wanted? Some would say yes and no, the fact is its something different and it is an improvement over the current game we have. With good PVP you have reasons to join fleets, and rivalries develop out of competition. Where are the fleet rivalries in STO? Why would someone join a Fleet other then to breathe on their Vent/TS3 server and play solo? These types of things motivate players to want to compete and play STO with each other.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    That begs the question of why would the game need anything at all? The game was laid out with Klings being a PVP faction. Also many online players play online games to play with humans and not AI. You can do that in a single player game. Many people who play online MMO's define "end user content" as PVP in many cases. You would have a valid point if you were forced to participate and in this type of model you would not be. If Cryptic is going to put in PVP in its game it might as well go all out instead of its half baked attempt that is currently active. I'm not attacking you but those types of comments are killers in MMO titles. I could say "hey I think this game should have player built cities" and you could get several people if not more saying "why does it need that?". This game doesn't need anything, its all about want and how far the community wants to try and push the boundaries of this game. Cryptic has the money (subs, C-store) and the resources to make this an all out sandbox game with customization down to the smallest detail. This is a living game and the community player base drives its future and direction.

    Season 2, you will see such trivial things as mini-games and ship interiors, needed? No, wanted? Some would say yes and no, the fact is its something different and it is an improvement over the current game we have. With good PVP you have reasons to join fleets, and rivalries develop out of competition. Where are the fleet rivalries in STO? Why would someone join a Fleet other then to breathe on their Vent/TS3 server and play solo? These types of things motivate players to want to compete and play STO with each other.

    Don't see it as an attack at all, you stated exactly the sort of thing I want to hear, because honestly all I see is 'we need X' and noone is ever saying WHY we need x.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    In another thread I suggested the same idea of pvp-oriented missions held with an open pvp sector that could be fought over for the right to "do" the missions.

    Well good on you, we need more ideas and more support. We should try and break the mold of being a WOW clone like some of the other titles out there. There are some good past games to learn from and see where they went wrong. One of my favorites to call on would be Star Wars Galaxies. I loved the sandbox idea of the game, but it was made by a bad company (SOE) and it had a poor community driving the game. It went from a sandbox game on the ground with later having a space expansion that gave FPS controls with ship interiors and customization to a WOW clone that everybody abandoned. Games like Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Everquest, had some great concepts and of course failures as do all MMO's. Hopefully we can get away from the anti-sandbox closed minded community that Blizzard produced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    Don't see it as an attack at all, you stated exactly the sort of thing I want to hear, because honestly all I see is 'we need X' and noone is ever saying WHY we need x.

    lol, well good to hear because I would hate to see this game die, and personally I am tired of anti-sandbox, dwarf swinging an axe in a loin cloth games. I really love space genre games, Star Trek and Star Wars both. I mean there are a ton of titles in the works by Indie developers but they will most likely turn out like garbage to be quite honest. This is a much bigger title and Star Trek has so much content and depth there is no reason this can't run strong for a decade.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    Don't see it as an attack at all, you stated exactly the sort of thing I want to hear, because honestly all I see is 'we need X' and noone is ever saying WHY we need x.

    Must we really explain why X is needed when X is already heavily implemented in the game?

    Do you believe pvp should be neglected or taken out by the Devs? The reason why I ask this is because all I hear is questions on why STO needs PVP at all, but no one ever says why it shouldn't be part of the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    This might end up being a bit of a hijack but I will ask it anyways. Why do you think STO needs PvP at all?

    Hmm, personally they could eliminate PvP and I could care less. However, from a game perspective PvP is essential as it gives players something to do in the game after completing all the mission content and adds variety.

    STO needs to appeal to as many players as possible and unfortunately there are many players who actually like PvP. It is an interesting question though as to how many players view PvP as a critical game element or something that they could really care less about. I know most forum posters live, breathe and die PvP but then a lot of people who play the game avoid the forums like the plague.

    Maybe it's time for a NPC at Earth starbase to conduct in-game polls and the first poll could be what's more important, PvP or PvE. Forums are great way to get feed back from the segment of players who can tolerate internet forums, however forums by their very nature drive away as many individuals as they can attract.

    I suppose this leads to an even bigger topic, if Cryptic truly wants to know what the players want, maybe it's time to move past forums and start some in game polls.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Holocron wrote:
    Must we really explain why X is needed when X is already heavily implemented in the game?

    Do you believe pvp should be neglected or taken out by the Devs? The reason why I ask this is because all I hear is questions on why STO needs PVP at all, but no one ever says why it shouldn't be part of the game.

    I ask because based off what I read, X is not heavily implemented in the game, in fact its because people want more stuff they are even asking :P Bear in mind I come at this from a very PvE direction. In general I dislike playing against other people because of too many experiences where Ive been treated like garbage because the other person only revels in winning. I guess I am asking why I should care about something I don't play, and why I should be motivated to support enhancing something that from initial looks, only a small amount of the community even use. Please understand I am not trying to be belligerent or start a fight, I am just legitimately asking why PVP matters to STO. Alot of the push I see if for PvE content for the Klingons, so I am trying to best gauge which would bring a better experience overall, because as I said from the standpoint I come from, I would support more PvE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think the answer is simple.

    People in this game are given spaceships. They want to have their spaceships fight each other.

    It's an urge that goes back as far as childhood play: "Pew! I shot you!...No you didn't!" It is fun and it is what many ST fans have dreamed of since (or before) the first Trek computer game was made.

    I'm a big fan of PvE. And in most MMOs that is all I will do. But even I want to take my Constitution-class cruiser and see if I can beat another player flying a Bird of Prey.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Democratus wrote: »
    I think the answer is simple.

    People in this game are given spaceships. They want to have their spaceships fight each other.

    It's an urge that goes back as far as childhood play: "Pew! I shot you!...No you didn't!" It is fun and it is what many ST fans have dreamed of since (or before) the first Trek computer game was made.

    I'm a big fan of PvE. And in most MMOs that is all I will do. But even I want to take my Constitution-class cruiser and see if I can beat another player flying a Bird of Prey.

    This is very true. Kids compete on their level with fake guns, play wrestling, who can run the fastest, dodge ball, etc. Later in life it turns into who is the best at football, who has the fastest car, can lift the most weight, get the most women, shoot the biggest gun/shoot the most accurate/fastest, who can make the most money, and the list goes on and on. It all goes back to childhood competition and it spills right into online games. I know at least 20 people who will not even attempt to try this game because of the lack of PVP they have read about and seen on youtube videos. How many more people out there are we not gaining because of the lack of end game content and PVP? Maybe Dr. Otto should do research on that instead.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    I ask because based off what I read, X is not heavily implemented in the game, in fact its because people want more stuff they are even asking :P Bear in mind I come at this from a very PvE direction. In general I dislike playing against other people because of too many experiences where Ive been treated like garbage because the other person only revels in winning. I guess I am asking why I should care about something I don't play, and why I should be motivated to support enhancing something that from initial looks, only a small amount of the community even use. Please understand I am not trying to be belligerent or start a fight, I am just legitimately asking why PVP matters to STO. Alot of the push I see if for PvE content for the Klingons, so I am trying to best gauge which would bring a better experience overall, because as I said from the standpoint I come from, I would support more PvE.




    I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with pvp and if you don't like it that's fine, to each their own. I'm not trying to rally any one to support something they don't like, but pvp and pve are important to an mmo like toppings to a pizza, it gives variety of things to do in the world. If some one hates pepperoni should the topping be eliminated? Why would some one who doesn't like some thing post in a thread about something they don't like? Because of that you come off as anti pvp.

    And for your comment about a small amount of the community who even use pvp I don't know where you got your info. Even if you are right it only points to pvp needing more work. There are que problems that need solving. I'm sure if the problems were fixed more people would play pvp.

    Not to mention people who love pvp get their gear from playing pve. My point is people who love pvp don't spend all day pvping they spend time at the exchange, tweaking their crew skills. Just because people are doing something other then pvping doesn't mean they are out there only pveing.

    I don't hate pve but if were to post (why do we even need pve) in a thread asking for improvement for more pve in the Klingon fraction, you could imagine the response I would get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Trueheart wrote:
    Hmm, personally they could eliminate PvP and I could care less. However, from a game perspective PvP is essential as it gives players something to do in the game after completing all the mission content and adds variety.

    STO needs to appeal to as many players as possible and unfortunately there are many players who actually like PvP. It is an interesting question though as to how many players view PvP as a critical game element or something that they could really care less about. I know most forum posters live, breathe and die PvP but then a lot of people who play the game avoid the forums like the plague.

    Maybe it's time for a NPC at Earth starbase to conduct in-game polls and the first poll could be what's more important, PvP or PvE. Forums are great way to get feed back from the segment of players who can tolerate internet forums, however forums by their very nature drive away as many individuals as they can attract.

    I suppose this leads to an even bigger topic, if Cryptic truly wants to know what the players want, maybe it's time to move past forums and start some in game polls.

    Polls aren't always very accurate especially when the fractions are so different. When I play my fed character I'm fine with amount of pve but when I play my Klingon character I'm in some desperate need of some more pve.

    So if I was asked in a poll about what was needed more I would say pve. But that is just an honest answer because the Klingons don't have much of any pve.

    But PVP is more important to me, not to mention there is no way pvp is going to be taken out, but there is a chance the Klingons might stay heavily pvp based, so there is no urgency for me to vote against pve but there is a huge outcry for pve on the Klingon fraction.


    My point is even if the poll results had pve winning over pvp it doesn't mean pvp isn't important and isn't needed in the game, all it means is the games two fractions aren't pve balanced. I'm all for the game getting more fleshed out and improving in all areas.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Well good on you, we need more ideas and more support. We should try and break the mold of being a WOW clone like some of the other titles out there. There are some good past games to learn from and see where they went wrong. One of my favorites to call on would be Star Wars Galaxies. I loved the sandbox idea of the game, but it was made by a bad company (SOE) and it had a poor community driving the game. It went from a sandbox game on the ground with later having a space expansion that gave FPS controls with ship interiors and customization to a WOW clone that everybody abandoned. Games like Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Everquest, had some great concepts and of course failures as do all MMO's. Hopefully we can get away from the anti-sandbox closed minded community that Blizzard produced.

    Thanks and I agree we need to stay as far from a WoW clone as possible.
    Democratus wrote: »
    I think the answer is simple.

    People in this game are given spaceships. They want to have their spaceships fight each other.

    It's an urge that goes back as far as childhood play: "Pew! I shot you!...No you didn't!" It is fun and it is what many ST fans have dreamed of since (or before) the first Trek computer game was made.

    I'm a big fan of PvE. And in most MMOs that is all I will do. But even I want to take my Constitution-class cruiser and see if I can beat another player flying a Bird of Prey.

    This about sums it up. STO needs pvp because pvp'ers enjoy pvping as well as playing the storyline. Not to mention that pvp is basically all a Klingon can do right now.

    Why does the Castomeadon think we don't need pvp? Nvm I saw your response post to a similiar question. Sorry Cast had a bad pvp experience, but pvping does take a thick skin becuase a-holes do exist in every game. Honestly though I've seen very few in STO pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Thanks and I agree we need to stay as far from a WoW clone as possible.
    This about sums it up. STO needs pvp because pvp'ers enjoy pvping as well as playing the storyline. Not to mention that pvp is basically all a Klingon can do right now.

    Why does the Castomeadon think we don't need pvp? Nvm I saw your response post to a similiar question. Sorry Cast had a bad pvp experience, but pvping does take a thick skin becuase a-holes do exist in every game. Honestly though I've seen very few in STO pvp.

    Let me get it out there that I don't outright think we don't need it, I'm asking why, in your own words. And so far I have gotten what I was looking for, coherent explanations behind why I should support its enhancement over PvE. I thank you both for your comments so far.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    Let me get it out there that I don't outright think we don't need it, I'm asking why, in your own words. And so far I have gotten what I was looking for, coherent explanations behind why I should support its enhancement over PvE. I thank you both for your comments so far.

    I actually don't think pvp should be supported over PvE, just that since the Klingons are primarily pvp - shouldn't be allowed to stagnate. Its time cryptic breaks that mold and start something new for pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I talked about my idea for better PVP in the other Klingon thread:
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2875463&postcount=156
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I personally feel that Eta Eridani sector be a PvP zone where I can fly into a ship from the other faction and go into a zone like the random space encounters where you can battle 1v1 or take your group against another.

    Have PvP missions in the zone such as battle for station 24. Do a space portion then go to the station and defend it. This could be something that changes hands every hour or so based on the outcome of the battles of the starbase.

    I think there should be actual PvE missions in the zone mostly for Klingons as they are a warrior race and this could build PvP content as well. Access to certain areas on the map could be based on who controls the starbase.

    PvP is not for every player and in this way I think you could accommodate PvP minded people without major impact on the PvE players.
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