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Hiya DEVS: Retrofit Defiant issues or how about some cannon love?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Ok so, the delightful, shiny, new retrofit defiant got the nerf recently. Instead of 2 tactical commander slots, it now has 1 commander, 1 LTC, and 1 ensign.

Now, normally, I guess that'd be ok, except that the ensign slot is pretty much useless at the level needed to get this ship. Bare with me here...

Ensign level Tac skills have Tactical Team.... and all the rest are beam-centric skills. Considering that the majority of escort players use all cannons in the front (and generally all turrets in rear) it makes an ensign tac slot just about useless, especially since Tactical Team is probably already the first skill on your tac BO's.

Ok, that said, here's a couple suggestions:

Get rid of the tac slot and replace it with a universal ensign slot. Then we can atleast find something useful to put in that place.

OR

Add a new skill to ensign level tacs. Perhaps a maneuver or attack pattern skill or something specific to cannons like a cannon overload or something of that nature.

Having something that is actually useful to a ship of this level would be very much appreciated.

Thanks Devs!

Sov <3<3
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm an escort Captain and I only use phasers.....BUT I see your point.

    Ensign tactical skills are pretty beam obsessed. Especially when you have more than one tactical officer with more than one ensign level ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    yEAH I call mine a "beam ship" because...I only use beams and torps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Cannon love sounds like it would hurt.

    Anyway, I think I prefer your idea of a universal ensign slot: it has the potential for greater variety. Of course, that will disappear whenever the min/maxers get a hold of things.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    signed

    hi sovereign
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Lower cannon rapid Fire I or Cannon Scatter fire I to ensign powers.

    Cannon Overload - Same deal as beams in essence

    Fire at will - This used to work with turrets I believe, not sure if it still does. Dont see why fire at will has to remain specific to beams and really, the narrow arc of cannons would make FAW extremely niche compared to beams.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    Lower cannon rapid Fire I or Cannon Scatter fire I to ensign powers.

    Cannon Overload - Same deal as beams in essence

    Fire at will - This used to work with turrets I believe, not sure if it still does. Dont see why fire at will has to remain specific to beams and really, the narrow arc of cannons would make FAW extremely niche compared to beams.

    Problem solved...

    Make it so!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No thanks, particularly considering that the Federation already has a de facto universal ensign slot since they have 3 different escorts with 3 different ensign configurations.

    We Raptor Captains have always had to deal with the extra Ensign Tactical slot, and given how much more variety the Federation has, it's a small price for yall to pay to have a cloaking device.

    EDIT: Also there are a lot of ideas getting thrown around in the Tribble forums for new ensign level powers, so who knows what they will add.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Sivar wrote: »
    No thanks, particularly considering that the Federation already has a de facto universal ensign slot since they have 3 different escorts with 3 different ensign configurations.

    We Raptor Captains have always had to deal with the extra Ensign Tactical slot, and given how much more variety the Federation has, it's a small price for yall to pay to have a cloaking device.

    EDIT: Also there are a lot of ideas getting thrown around in the Tribble forums for new ensign level powers, so who knows what they will add.

    You do realize not everything has to do with PvP right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    OR they could unnerf it, I mean it is a freaking T4, I mean, GIVE US SOMETHING. Who whined it was unfair in the first place? IT'S T FREAKING 4, GET OVER IT. We're the mages of STO, in a sense, we're glass cannons, The Dev's took away our only edge!!! But yes, I agree with this thread.

    Oh, and yes, I do use cannons, it actually give's me a nice edge if you use a good combo. Like this T2 example:

    Fore Weapons

    - 1 Phaser Cannon (It has a 180 arc, and gives better damage than a Phaser beam.)
    - 1 Phaser Duel Cannon (45 firing arc, but it has a high DPS rate.)
    - 1 Quantum Torpedo (really, any torpedo would work here)

    Aft Weapons

    - 1 Phaser Beam Array (This works well with the current Fore Weapons because of the 360 arc. It also stacks well with Beam Fire at Will.)

    This really is a great set up for me since my Main Tactical BOF has Torpedo High Yield II because I use the cannons to not only weaken the targets shields, but they work so well that they do a nice amount of damage as well. The shields are pealed back quickly and I use High Yield Torpedo II to finish off the target. Rarely will I need to use that ability twice... RARELY.

    Now I know I'm going off topic, I apologize, I just thought it was redundant to have an escort and not use the high DPS cannons that were MEANT for that class.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Myrdden74 wrote:
    You do realize not everything has to do with PvP right?

    Thats the problem with Klingons, they only think of PvP when it comes to getting us nerfed. >.> Rather than having the thought of, "oh wait, this might make things less balanced for PvE."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    sovereign wrote: »
    Thats the problem with Klingons, they only think of PvP when it comes to getting us nerfed. >.> Rather than having the thought of, "oh wait, this might make things less balanced for PvE."

    Again, agree with that completely. At T4, the game is hard enough, but now escort captains are forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back, so to speak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    sovereign wrote: »
    Thats the problem with Klingons, they only think of PvP when it comes to getting us nerfed. >.> Rather than having the thought of, "oh wait, this might make things less balanced for PvE."

    You still can stick with your fleet/advanced escort to have other ensing (so kinda universal choice), and use MES as cloaking device in them...

    Dont blame cryptic about YOUR choice to play the Defiant, someone has to get that ensing tactical, and fleet and advanced already has theirs.

    And dont even start with the universal slot...

    Klingons were crying about the 3rd tactical ensing since the game launched, nothing has changed...i dont think repeated QQ about this issue will change that now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Snix posted something to the effect that they are looking into rearranging the rank that some powers become available and cited both mine powers and cannon powers in tactical.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    You still can stick with your fleet/advanced escort to have other ensing (so kinda universal choice), and use MES as cloaking device in them...

    The only reason we got stuck with an ensign slot is because klingons QQ'd in the first place.

    As for MES, its not even viable to use it as a cloak, it doesn't work since it got nerfed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    You still can stick with your fleet/advanced escort to have other ensing (so kinda universal choice), and use MES as cloaking device in them...

    Dont blame cryptic about YOUR choice to play the Defiant, someone has to get that ensing tactical, and fleet and advanced already has theirs.

    And dont even start with the universal slot...

    Klingons were crying about the 3rd tactical ensing since the game launched, nothing has changed...i dont think repeated QQ about this issue will change that now.

    Actually, we can blame Cryptic, especially if we were using Escorts before the Nerf.

    OH, and where do you find a cloaking Device?I heard there was one for Fed, but I can't seem to find one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    sovereign wrote: »
    The only reason we got stuck with an ensign slot is because klingons QQ'd in the first place.

    As for MES, its not even viable to use it as a cloak, it doesn't work since it got nerfed.

    If you actually were on tribble to test stuff, you would know the MES is working there....but its alot easier to QQ on forums with half the informations, instead testing the stuff alone. And no, it was not because klingon QQ, it was because people (both feds and klingos) thought that dual commanders on all ships are little OP, and the T5 retrofits wouldnt be balanced with old T5 ships. Klingons have not the man power to actually QQ about something, so it gets noticed.

    So again, get your informations first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    If you actually were on tribble to test stuff, you would know the MES is working there....but its alot easier to QQ on forums with half the informations, instead testing the stuff alone. And no, it was not because klingon QQ, it was because people (both feds and klingos) thought that dual commanders on all ships are little OP, and the T5 retrofits wouldnt be balanced with old T5 ships. Klingons have not the man power to actually QQ about something, so it gets noticed.

    So again, get your informations first.

    I have been on tribble and no, MES still does not work effectively to merit actually using it, let alone as a cloak.

    Personally, I don't even care that the ship has a cloak, I'm just asking for something useful at the ensign level for the ship. It not in anyway an unreasonable request.

    You're not going to accomplish anything here with that attitude.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I confuse... what's MES?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Myrdden74 wrote:
    You do realize not everything has to do with PvP right?

    Yes, I do think of things in terms of PvP balance; because until they make is so that you can't Zerg the target in space STFs the PvP balance is the only thing worth worrying about (change the death rules of STFs and we'll talk; and don't tell me that Elite PvE missions are hard).
    WeasleX wrote: »
    OR they could unnerf it, I mean it is a freaking T4, I mean, GIVE US SOMETHING. Who whined it was unfair in the first place? IT'S T FREAKING 4, GET OVER IT. We're the mages of STO, in a sense, we're glass cannons, The Dev's took away our only edge!!! But yes, I agree with this thread.

    It has T5 stats, the dual Commander stations had no counter on the Klingon side. Now the ship has the same potential as the Raptor, so if you think it sucks then the Klingons have been b***h slapping Fed groups with a similar ship.......go figure huh?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Signed.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    WeasleX wrote: »
    I confuse... what's MES?

    Mask Energy Signature - a (currently) useless power in PvP (and possibly PvE)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    War1910 wrote: »
    Mask Energy Signature - a (currently) useless power in PvP (and possibly PvE)

    Thats what I was saying earlier. Its absolutely useless in PvE, too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    War1910 wrote: »
    Mask Energy Signature - a (currently) useless power in PvP (and possibly PvE)

    Ahhhh... So it's not a cloak per say, which would be useful... I don't see why that would warrent a nerf of that magnitude. They should send out a MINOR Nerf since it's a minor power. Not a MAJOR Cut the arm off an escort and give them a cute little power trade off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    sovereign wrote: »
    Thats what I was saying earlier. Its absolutely useless in PvE, too.

    Obviously you didnt try it on tribble (aka test server), else you wouldnt say its useless..it works like cloak, and exactly as cloak on MES III, it just doesnt drop your shields !!. Just remember my words when season 2.0 hits, and everyone will use it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Isn't the Defiant still better than the Raptor? I mean, it got a better maneuverability?

    The 2 Commander slots were a failure in balancing the ship. Making the ensign slot universal would again be a failure in balancing the ship. And I am not talking about balancing against Klingons, I am talking about balancing it against other tier 5 ships. Why fly an Advanced Escort or Fleet Escort if you can have the same BOs as they have, plus cloak, plus better maneuverability?

    The real solution is more ensign level tactical powers. Snix said that this is something they plan post season 2.

    My only problem with the Defiant is that it has cloak instead of just being the toughest escort. That's what I found the most iconic about the Defiant - it took hits like no other ship of her size.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    sovereign wrote: »
    Thats what I was saying earlier. Its absolutely useless in PvE, too.

    When I started STO I trained one of my BOffs with that skill.

    its basically an invisibility power that only works when no-one is looking (ah-la Mystery Men)

    that BOff is now neglected, unwashed and unfed in the dark corner of the ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010

    The real solution is more ensign level tactical powers. Snix said that this is something they plan post season 2.

    That was my other suggestion in my OP. If a universal slot isn't an option, then give us more ensign skills. If they do, then I'm happy.
    My only problem with the Defiant is that it has cloak instead of just being the toughest escort. That's what I found the most iconic about the Defiant - it took hits like no other ship of her size.

    Problem is, in-game, the Defiant is far more fragile than we've seen in the TV series.

    Though, the new model updates are really fantastic. :D Capt. Logan did a magnificent job.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    i dont get it, if they replaced the lone ensign slot with a commander slot, woudlnt you still have 3 ensign power slots?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    let's not argue to death if MES is working or not, we'll all find out in a week anyway. I'm wondering why they chose to knock out a BOF ability since one of the problems some players are having is with BOF's and not being able to use them to their full potential. Not too mention all the extra BOF's that you get and don't use... at all. The Dev's are just adding to a problem that still has yet to be fixed.

    We need to use all the BOF's to their full potential, and with nerfs like this, it's not getting better, it's getting worse.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Cruis.In wrote: »
    i dont get it, if they replaced the lone ensign slot with a commander slot, woudlnt you still have 3 ensign power slots?

    No. 2 ensign powers. It was originally geared to have 2 commander slots, which would give an extra commander level power.

    But the Ensign skill pool is devoid of anything but beam powers and tactical team.
    WeasleX wrote: »
    I'm wondering why they chose to knock out a BOF ability since one of the problems some players are having is with BOF's and not being able to use them to their full potential. Not too mention all the extra BOF's that you get and don't use... at all. The Dev's are just adding to a problem that still has yet to be fixed.

    We need to use all the BOF's to their full potential, and with nerfs like this, it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

    Very valid points, and I'd agree, however, I'm not here to point fingers at the Devs or lay blame. I'm simply looking for a better solution than what they currently have in place.
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