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Question to Klingon Players

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
If, say, December first rolled around and Klingons had totally equal content to the Federation by that point (equal customization, equal number and types of ships, equal number of missions, crafting, diplomacy), do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?

I'm not saying Klingons don't need more content. But I think the damage is done to a point and there's already a cutoff point where trying to please people who left the game just won't have any returns.

If you completely surrender all notions of fairness or what you'd personally like... Do you think most Klingons who quit will ever come back, regardless of what Cryptic does?

I may have a skewed PoV but I'm honestly curious. And if the damage is done, whether the goal should be different than what was initially suggested two years ago.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    It may not draw all of those who have quit back, but it would very likely cause more people who are currently only playing Fed to play Klingons as well. And while that is not a new subscriber, that may in fact keep a person who would quit out of boredom after finishing all the Fed content playing as a Klingon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If, say, December first rolled around and Klingons had totally equal content to the Federation by that point (equal customization, equal number and types of ships, equal number of missions, crafting, diplomacy), do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?

    I'm not saying Klingons don't need more content. But I think the damage is done to a point and there's already a cutoff point where trying to please people who left the game just won't have any returns.

    If you completely surrender all notions of fairness or what you'd personally like... Do you think most Klingons who quit will ever come back, regardless of what Cryptic does?

    I may have a skewed PoV but I'm honestly curious. And if the damage is done, whether the goal should be different than what was initially suggested two years ago.

    I think doing Klingons right (which is left to personal interpretation), would bring back some but also get those who skipped on this game in the first place interested. They could buy this game for $19 dollars now and get a sub, and would hang around if this was developed. As someone who plays a lot of other games with groups of people, I find it amazing how many big guilds past on this because of their evaluations of Klingons in beta.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    I think doing Klingons right (which is left to personal interpretation), would bring back some but also get those who skipped on this game in the first place interested. They could buy this game for $19 dollars now and get a sub, and would hang around if this was developed. As someone who plays a lot of other games with groups of people, I find it amazing how many big guilds past on this because of their evaluations of Klingons in beta.

    See... That is a good thing to hear.

    Most of the time, the impression I get is, "Only 10% of your players are Klingon and you're about to lose them unless you provide equal support."

    And unless you can drive that number back up, there's a point at which it might make sense to just echo the words of Jim Kirk and say, "Let them die."

    That's what I'm wrestling with as a player when I see the same five people expressing frustration with lack of Klingon content. On one hand, I'd love a Klingon alt I could take seriously and I think more Klingon content is great. But at the same time, I do wonder if what Klingon players want is cost effective or if, maybe, it's better for Cryptic to let it go for the good of the larger game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    i dont really like wow but ive gone back to it time and time again only to be reminded that i dont like it,

    but i want to like it

    if there are star trek fans out there, and mainly klingon fans, then unless sto put them off so much that they just hate the very nature of the game, im confident people will come back and try it again at some point
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ...do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?...

    No, I don't. Games have a very limited window in which to make a first impression, and only a small percentage of players who feel they've been burned give games a second chance.

    Remember that the Klingon Content issue isn't the only thing that turned people away - it was also the heavy instancing, the lack of end-game, PVP issues... the list goes on. STO would need a major renaissance to climb back to it's launch numbers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Darkjedi wrote: »
    No, I don't. Games have a very limited window in which to make a first impression, and only a small percentage of players who feel they've been burned give games a second chance.

    im not so sure, casual fans maybe but i think your underestimating the fanatical nature of star trek fans, and the OP is looking a group that associate themselves with klingons over just star trek in general.

    its not like playing a bog standard mmo that they have no connection to. this is based on the franchise they love.

    it would have to be a hard fan to not to try and give it a second chance
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    i dont really like wow but ive gone back to it time and time again only to be reminded that i dont like it,

    but i want to like it

    if there are star trek fans out there, and mainly klingon fans, then unless sto put them off so much that they just hate the very nature of the game, im confident people will come back and try it again at some point

    Well get out there on other forums aside this one. It doesn't take much, I know of a few groups who watched and drolled since the IP was sold to Perpetual, and then wanted it to work for Cryptic, only to do beta and completely drop something they wanted for several years. Hell, I play BFBC2 with a bunch of guys who all ditched on this two weeks before release and canceled their preorder because of the lack of Klingon content. That was 30+ people, I and a few others hung with it to keep them informed...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'll guess 70% would return. At least I know of 70 who would try it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Funny, I suggest people read this.....
    http://www.startrekonline.com/node/1275

    LOL best comment goes for this response...
    "Ship customization will start to come out in the next update. More ship and character customization will follow shortly after that. There is also a new tier 2 battle cruiser set for release in the next update. Due to the community’s demand, we are also releasing more PvE content - fleet actions, Special Tasks Forces, Star Clusters and, down the road, unique episodes. Eventually you will be able to play a Klingon character to General with PvE alone."

    Can't argue with that.... totally true, by doing the same mission, 40,000 times.... in the expanse heheh
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If, say, December first rolled around and Klingons had totally equal content to the Federation by that point (equal customization, equal number and types of ships, equal number of missions, crafting, diplomacy), do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?

    I'm not saying Klingons don't need more content. But I think the damage is done to a point and there's already a cutoff point where trying to please people who left the game just won't have any returns.

    If you completely surrender all notions of fairness or what you'd personally like... Do you think most Klingons who quit will ever come back, regardless of what Cryptic does?

    I may have a skewed PoV but I'm honestly curious. And if the damage is done, whether the goal should be different than what was initially suggested two years ago.

    talking with my gaming group that came into STO early on and was heavy into the Klink side........damage done

    Some have said they will never touch another Cryptic game.........ever........

    May not seem like much but thats at least 20 some odd subs Cryptic will never see again.......

    me and 2 others got LT subs so we are stuck with a sub par product. My group is just waiting for ST:KOTOR to go open beta.............
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The main reason I play a klingon is so I don't have to be bothered with the complete pile of stinking trash that the content in this game is. As a klingon I never have to set foot in a ground mission. All I have to do is fight ships in space, the only thing that saves this game from the garbage can.

    So to answer the question of the OP that would depend on the nature of content. I am assuming you mean content that resembles what is in right now for the feds, and I say no thanks. I'll keep playing my space combat shooter until I get bored and move on to something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Star Trek is a strong brand, so a healthy Klingon faction has a large fanbase to draw potential subscriptions from.

    As far as what will lure most Klingons back - most Klingons who left were PvP centric, so an open PvP system would bring back many Klingons for a trial run - and many Fed PvPers too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    See... That is a good thing to hear.

    Most of the time, the impression I get is, "Only 10% of your players are Klingon and you're about to lose them unless you provide equal support."

    And unless you can drive that number back up, there's a point at which it might make sense to just echo the words of Jim Kirk and say, "Let them die."

    That's what I'm wrestling with as a player when I see the same five people expressing frustration with lack of Klingon content. On one hand, I'd love a Klingon alt I could take seriously and I think more Klingon content is great. But at the same time, I do wonder if what Klingon players want is cost effective or if, maybe, it's better for Cryptic to let it go for the good of the larger game.

    I dont think you will ever see the Hard Core Klingon players ever again by Dec.... they will be playing other games where they get respect... we lost a Massive portion of the Klingon Community at closed beta and they made a vow never to come back...

    Cryptic and STO are not Klingon Friendly, and have no understanding of the Klingon Culture, Ships, life Style and all that Jazz....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pacifica- wrote:
    they made a vow never to come back...

    oh dear, if it was a blood oath then they cant break those things ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Well, after watching the moderators close threads, sweep them to unread parts of the forums, and other "damage control" moves, I think the damage is done. To many players have poured there ideas and hopes for a Star Trek MMO they can enjoy, only to have them crushed, ignored, or twisted up into a half done version of what was suggested.

    I don't think even if they made the Klingon Faction on par with the Federation faction that players would come back. The RAF and the to soon free weekend demo thing killed any hope of winning players back for a second go. No one likes to give a game a second chance only to see the same lack of depth and beta feel that STO still has. Cryptic has lost a lot of credibility with players and I don't think they can currently over come that. I haven't felt this badly about a company since SOE.

    For me it's to little to late and to many insults. I say go ahead absorb the Klingon Empire back into the Federation and then see how well a 1 Faction MMORPG with self only PvP, brainlessly weak PvE with no real end game survives. Maybe the trekkies will keep the game alive with shallow fluff bought through the C-$tore until depth and polish can be done to finish this pay to BETA game. Got a new title for the Game as well call it Star Trek Online, the Sims version.

    Oh well just my opinion anyway /rant off and please move along.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Frankly, I don't think I'd want to play a game with people who stamp their feet and say "I'm never buying from you again!" after participating in a closed beta test. Good riddance.

    Much better to play with a group of level-headed gamers who don't take their entertainment time quite so seriously.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    oh dear, if it was a blood oath then they cant break those things ;)
    Democratus wrote: »
    Frankly, I don't think I'd want to play a game with people who stamp their feet and say "I'm never buying from you again!" after participating in a closed beta test. Good riddance.

    Much better to play with a group of level-headed gamers who don't take their entertainment time quite so seriously.

    no joke... in real life the Klingon Culture and Community is a very Serious thing... and this some people do not understand...



    Cryptic made a big mistake messing around with the Star Trek Universe... showing dis-respect to the Klingons and trying to create a Star Trek MMO....

    Cryptic should have made their very own Space MMO, this way they would have never stepped on anyones Toes and could create a Universe of their very own... no one to ask for permissions to do this and make that ect... this game would be much better if they designed it around their very own creation...

    Cryptic should have left Star Trek to someone else who knows about Star Trek Lore and Klingon Culture.... and basically knows what they are doing...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I can only speak for myself here. I consider myself a Klingon player, since I play my Klingons 99% of my time. I have been waiting since release for the promised updates, and now I am at the point where I get tired of waiting much more longer.

    I have played MMORPGs for years, but always only one at a time. Once I left the one I was playing I never looked back. Would I look back at STO? No!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Democratus wrote: »
    Frankly, I don't think I'd want to play a game with people who stamp their feet and say "I'm never buying from you again!" after participating in a closed beta test. Good riddance.

    Much better to play with a group of level-headed gamers who don't take their entertainment time quite so seriously.

    The klingon trekkes might come back for pve stuff and story telling about the klingon history such but the big pvp fleets and such gonna be long gone they look for pvp where you can make a mark not pvp in some instance that means nothing.
    Allso the 1st impresison means a lot more then ppl think burn a customer one time you better have a really good offer to make em bother to come back..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If, say, December first rolled around and Klingons had totally equal content to the Federation by that point (equal customization, equal number and types of ships, equal number of missions, crafting, diplomacy), do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?

    I'm not saying Klingons don't need more content. But I think the damage is done to a point and there's already a cutoff point where trying to please people who left the game just won't have any returns.

    If you completely surrender all notions of fairness or what you'd personally like... Do you think most Klingons who quit will ever come back, regardless of what Cryptic does?

    I may have a skewed PoV but I'm honestly curious. And if the damage is done, whether the goal should be different than what was initially suggested two years ago.

    No, unfortunately the damage has been and is still being done in the eyes of the majority of the Klingon base. Hell even Federation players think that the Klingons should be getting more.

    The faction started losing people when Cryptic made the announcement that the faction would be PvP oriented, years after saying that they would have equal content. Cryptic had to have seen the posts and the numerous in game chats where stated people were giving this game until Season 2 and if that was a bust then they were done.

    The problem is that Cryptic is trying to do too much with what little they have and falling short of player expectations. They need to pick an area to focus on and work on it until the players are happy with it (ex. work on the Endgame content like Open PvP and STFs until the players are satisfied with them; or work on the leveling content until the players are happy with it; or work on the customization options until the players are satisfed; but not 2 areas at a time).

    Cryptic is trying to cover too much ground to appeal to the most people, but instead are just letting people down when the high expectations of the playerbases are not met.

    Now the latest little bit is UGC, which people swear will save the game. The reality is that one of two things will happen:

    1) This game will close down in under a year from now (much like Tabula Rasa).

    or

    2) The game will implement UGC and adopt a free to play model a month or two later which will keep the game alive but the game will never hit the levels that it could have (thanks Atari for pushing the game out two years ahead of when it should have been).

    ----

    I so want this game to succeed, but I have lost hope for it and the writing is on the wall; the playerbase is bored, the Klingon-base is angry and disappointed, and the list of complaints with this game from the people on these forums is not getting shorter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ogital wrote: »
    I can only speak for myself here. I consider myself a Klingon player, since I play my Klingons 99% of my time. I have been waiting since release for the promised updates, and now I am at the point where I get tired of waiting much more longer.

    I have played MMORPGs for years, but always only one at a time. Once I left the one I was playing I never looked back. Would I look back at STO? No!!

    same thing i leave this game i wount look back either i usualy let my accounts rot as well ..

    And theese so called patches to handle klingons 1st the 45 day patch then issue one then issie 1.21390479203 someting and now issue 2 then its some where after issue 2 , then prolly issue 3 some more breadcrums then issue 4 same thing again....
    Keep trying to drag ppl along with a carrot on a stick and not handing it out will lead to ppl just leaving...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    The story that is the ST IP is not about Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Xinti, or even Horta. It IS focused and centered on humanity which is a member of the Federation. All the other races, factions, etc, are bit players in the greater story.

    Based on that reasoning above, I seriously doubt that the Klingon faction will ever have content equal to the Fed. Maybe a quarter or at most a third perhaps, but not equal. There are other factions that will (might, could, hopefully someday) be introduced into the game that would have to have a share of the story and the developers attention.

    Cryptic would have to pull an elephant (as opposed to a rabbit) out of a hat in order to bring back a significant portion of the players that have left. Pulling a rabbit out might draw the interest of a few that are sitting on the fence, but not many more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    The story that is the ST IP is not about Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Xinti, or even Horta. It IS focused and centered on humanity which is a member of the Federation. All the other races, factions, etc, are bit players in the greater story.

    The difference is this is not a TV show, it is an MMO. And when you make a multi-faction MMO and actually advertise your game as having two factions(as opposed to simply having "monster play" like in LOTRO) then the game becomes about BOTH of your factions, not just one. Cryptic's mistake was launching the game with two factions when they obviously didnt have the resources to develop two at the same time. They should have launched with an amazing Fed faction and released Klingons as the first expansion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think most of them are still here just switched sides... waiting...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    The story that is the ST IP is not about Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Xinti, or even Horta. It IS focused and centered on humanity which is a member of the Federation. All the other races, factions, etc, are bit players in the greater story.
    .

    Wrong THE ST IP IS ABOUT ALL THEM RACES it uses humanity as an example as a voyage trough social evolution to see how a human federation would work. You can tell this story from the point of all the diffrent races in the universe how humanity spread like the borg and asimilated every culture they would find into their huge federation .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Godsrage wrote: »
    I think most of them are still here just switched sides... waiting...

    thats wrong as well cause my friends list used to be full of klingon players they dont show up at all....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    If, say, December first rolled around and Klingons had totally equal content to the Federation by that point (equal customization, equal number and types of ships, equal number of missions, crafting, diplomacy), do you think that would draw disgruntled Klingon players back in?

    I'm not saying Klingons don't need more content. But I think the damage is done to a point and there's already a cutoff point where trying to please people who left the game just won't have any returns.

    If you completely surrender all notions of fairness or what you'd personally like... Do you think most Klingons who quit will ever come back, regardless of what Cryptic does?

    I may have a skewed PoV but I'm honestly curious. And if the damage is done, whether the goal should be different than what was initially suggested two years ago.

    I don't think it would draw a a lot of people back as they have made their choice but I do think it would help to retain new players or to get more to roll a Klingon making it more equal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I dont think many of the people who quit especialy the ones with the whole forum letter will come back alot of them where paid for the retoric and miss inofrmation they posted...i mean how can you not know you can look up other players and their characters and see what they have done?

    Notice how now blizzard is trying to use the same features...go figure....world of warcraft = we copy everyone else and have no original ideas we just sppon feed our idiot players who only have 8 dungeons to explore inthe entire railroad physics game.

    Anywise...not to be mean...but you all realize you can look up inthe database to see who quit and has not...tells you activity too by date and time.

    And again hate to say it...not too many kinlingon players quit...they just are playing federation characters it looks like.

    Edited in: Wait you are right there are alot of people who quit....mostly names with ADFGH and TJHGHGFDHG and hm alot of similar names....seems like those are a mojority of quitters....also i see a bunch of spammers quit too...no loss there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tarjan wrote: »
    Wrong THE ST IP IS ABOUT ALL THEM RACES it uses humanity as an example as a voyage trough social evolution to see how a human federation would work. You can tell this story from the point of all the diffrent races in the universe how humanity spread like the borg and asimilated every culture they would find into their huge federation .

    You write that I am "wrong" then proceed to argue, repeat and assert what I just wrote? ;)

    Would YOU like another chance to make your OWN point? :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    You write that I am "wrong" then proceed to argue, repeat and assert what I just wrote? ;)

    Would YOU like another chance to make your OWN point? :)

    There is a difference between the shows being centered around the Federation, and the developers of a game saying that there will be equal focus on the factions.
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