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[Final Anwser] Is STO considerd Star Trek canon?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
This is a big, big question. I personally think it is canon! However I want to say is this in defense of STO being canon to the naysayers.

So far the Star Trek fandom has only accepted the shows as canon. Now this is good for keeping continuity this is important to remember. There is no Star Trek show in the works and it seems like the next one may be several years off into the future. It's most likly going to be set in JJ Abram's alt universe due to the last movie's success and it's popularity and the fact it's getting several sequels coming up.

With all this and the fact that it's most likely that there probably won't be any canon stories set after nemesis. STO has a Brilliant story and the "path to 2409" is really great. Not only this but the writers for the game have done their best to embrace the serie's canon and give all our favorite captain's and characters satisfying futeres.

To the people who don't say this game should be considered canon I have this to say. STO has done such a great job with the future of Star Trek that it makesme wonder: Who else is going to cover 2409 any better? Look at how unpopular Enterprise was. The only series I see being made is one based in t=TOS JJ universe since the movie was very very popular among everybody. Even if you don't like it you must admit that it was popular (highest grossing Star Trek film ever!).

I also remember reading somewhere that CBS considered it canon and since they own the liscence I guess they decide. Besides it's not the worst thing in the world if a Star Trek video game is made canono. Almost every other sci-fi franchise in the world consider there books and video games canon (Star Wars, Doctor Who, Battle Star, etc....). Now there is a limit and i'm not saying that every novel and video game made for Star Trek should be made canon (most should'nt) however I think STO should. If CBS says it's canon (Which I need to find where they said that) then as the license holder it;s canon.

Now the question remains,

IS STO CANON?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yes.

    Source - Stan from Engineering, who tries to use his phaser on dates to stun women so he can "transport their clothes off"... yet he has found more luck with a beat up van, an old chair, a fake sling and chloroform.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    anything not produced on the television, or film format is soft canon. end of story.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    DO a search and you should find an answer there was a thread a few weeks were the Devs said that all things added and done have to be aproved by the rights holders so this in and of its self makes it cannon in that reguard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I really don't care if it is or not.....

    .... I couldn't spot canon from non-canon if my life depended on it anyway.


    It's all "Trekky enough" for me.


    .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    anything not produced on the television, or film format is soft canon. end of story.

    What about what CBS said?:confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Psh, STO isn't even Soft cannon. I'd say things like books and graphic novels are soft cannon because they try hard as hell to avoid contradict cannon. But STO? It's just a nice fantasy for us all to live for a while lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    forresto wrote: »
    What about what CBS said?:confused:

    that makes it soft canon, just like CBS approved the books so those are soft canon. true canon is anything made in the films or show.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I found the link to your question about cannon, I am unsure, can someone translate if this is soft or hard cannon from the link below?....

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2867020
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think one of the Dev's commented a while back that STO is actually considered soft Cannon. As in, it's based off of Star Trek, but there isn't much that the TV show will be based off of if Star Trek gets another TV series or movie for that matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    STO is soft canon. Originally it was thought that STO would be canon according to the ones who study such things, but then it was clarified a few months ago that it was a misunderstanding and STO isn't canon. Which allows a lot more freedom for the dev's actually.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    that makes it soft canon, just like CBS approved the books so those are soft canon. true canon is anything made in the films or show.

    Right. The Destiny Trilogy eliminated the Borg in 2381.

    STO still has them.

    Which is more canon?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Gym_Quirk wrote:
    Right. The Destiny Trilogy eliminated the Borg in 2381.

    STO still has them.

    Which is more canon?
    Lower levels of Canon are not forced to be laterally consistent, as in the case of say Star Wars. It seems to be as long as a work is still in the spirit and thematics of Star Trek, it will be approved, but it doesn't have to regard other non film/television works.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    No.

    Star Wars has a specific set of catagories relating to their canon:

    'Hard Canon' - Anything that never changes and is the primary source against which canon is compared. I.E The movies

    'Soft Canon' - Related media, books and such that build on the Hard stuff. Incase of a conflict Hard canon trumps everything.
    If a book says Luke Skywalker stubbed his toe when he was 5 but a hard canon source says he didnt. Book gets thrown under the bus.

    'Everything else' - Games, anything else basically. Overridden if it contradicts the other too trump this.


    Star Trek dosent have such a system to my knowledge.

    As such the only canon = Movies, Series and what CBS specifically says IS canon. Even if they say it IS canon without any trump system there is no way to know what over-rules what.

    Case in point: Several episodes show future versions of Star Trek some of which still is coming by STO time frame.

    If STO contradicts that... does this mean events never happened ?
    If not, why not ?

    This brings us to the 'alternate reality' excuse which anyone looking at the slew of confusion caused by the CURRENT timeline fiasco will know is a disaster waiting to happen. Afterall, if we are in an alternate universe all bets are off on what can happen so Cryptic could magically make the Romulans join the Federation, the Borg suddenly become the good guys that save puppies from trees etc. Enterprise gets blown to bits by the floating sword of Khaless hitting the warp nacelle.

    On the one hand it gives Cryptic complete free reign to make a Trek universe however they want.
    On the other, CBS wont let that fly because it wouldnt take long for a 'free reign' party to deviate so much from Star Trek it no longer attracts Trek fans.

    Personnally, I would love to come into a Star Trek game where the universe changes to be more realisting and dynamic but I suspect too many die hard trekies would throw a fit. STO cant even go on without getting a cloaking device for the Feds without folks going mental over canon treaties.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    According to the official Star Trek website the definition for canon is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    No.

    Star Wars has a specific set of catagories relating to their canon:

    'Hard Canon' - Anything that never changes and is the primary source against which canon is compared. I.E The movies

    'Soft Canon' - Related media, books and such that build on the Hard stuff. Incase of a conflict Hard canon trumps everything.
    If a book says Luke Skywalker stubbed his toe when he was 5 but a hard canon source says he didnt. Book gets thrown under the bus.

    'Everything else' - Games, anything else basically. Overridden if it contradicts the other too trump this.


    Star Trek dosent have such a system to my knowledge.

    As such the only canon = Movies, Series and what CBS specifically says IS canon. Even if they say it IS canon without any trump system there is no way to know what over-rules what.

    Case in point: Several episodes show future versions of Star Trek some of which still is coming by STO time frame.

    If STO contradicts that... does this mean events never happened ?
    If not, why not ?

    This brings us to the 'alternate reality' excuse which anyone looking at the slew of confusion caused by the CURRENT timeline fiasco will know is a disaster waiting to happen. Afterall, if we are in an alternate universe all bets are off on what can happen so Cryptic could magically make the Romulans join the Federation, the Borg suddenly become the good guys that save puppies from trees etc. Enterprise gets blown to bits by the floating sword of Khaless hitting the warp nacelle.

    On the one hand it gives Cryptic complete free reign to make a Trek universe however they want.
    On the other, CBS wont let that fly because it wouldnt take long for a 'free reign' party to deviate so much from Star Trek it no longer attracts Trek fans.

    Personnally, I would love to come into a Star Trek game where the universe changes to be more realisting and dynamic but I suspect too many die hard trekies would throw a fit. STO cant even go on without getting a cloaking device for the Feds without folks going mental over canon treaties.

    This made me lol!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    STO is soft canon. Originally it was thought that STO would be canon according to the ones who study such things, but then it was clarified a few months ago that it was a misunderstanding and STO isn't canon. Which allows a lot more freedom for the dev's actually.

    True, and so long as the Dev's don't go too far with this freedom, say... make us fight the unicorn race from planet Rainbow, I think we'll be safe. (unless that was, of course, the secret project of season 3, then we're all doomed.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I say they should have redone all the ships and made it 200 years in the future, when androids are attacking a colony because they are tired of being named Jose and JoseB
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Also found this quote from Richard Arnold:

    And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

    This is from an interview in 1991. Even though Gene has passed away I think this still rings true today as it did back then.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Also found this quote from Richard Arnold:

    And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

    This is from an interview in 1991. Even though Gene has passed away I think this still rings true today as it did back then.

    Technically though there was a book that he accepted as canon, got into a fight with the writer who was a friend and then denounced it because of the fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    According to Gene only the 1st and 2nd season of ToS, the 1st movie, and the 1st season of TNG are canon. The ST universe we know today is very unlike Gene's. He was a utopian, and from what I gathered tried to use TV as a medium to extend his ideological and philisophical views. What made him different from many Sci-Fi writers at the time (and even now) is that we as a race don't degrade to become animals and gangsters, but uniter's and moral crusaders.

    Gene's ideas are nice and fluffy, but as has been said before on these forums, the greatest parts of trek for the fans, are not gene's. Remember, he's the guy that wanted men running around in skirts on TNG.

    Pretty much, Star Trek is what the fan's make it to be, unlike Star Wars, which is whatever George Lucas wants it to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    From what I gather Gene Roddenberry was like that. This is taken from the same interview with Richard Arnold - "It has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Every single thing that happens when I'm in-game playing my characters IS CANON ... to me.

    And that's all I need. My imagination does the rest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Also found this quote from Richard Arnold:

    And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

    This is from an interview in 1991. Even though Gene has passed away I think this still rings true today as it did back then.

    Unless Gene Roddenberry rises from the grave, what he says or wants is irrelevant. Whoever holds the rights gets the final say in whats canon and I presume CBS are holding the rights if Cryptic is paying them.

    Although even if CBS say STO was canon right now... wouldnt make a damn bit of difference.
    Until a movie or series starts linking to STO then any canon ties could be brushed off easily unless its an alternate reality.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Gym_Quirk wrote:
    Right. The Destiny Trilogy eliminated the Borg in 2381.

    STO still has them.

    Which is more canon?

    To answer that question. we are, we take in account star trek 11, and last time I check those books did not. ( I could be wrong, and if I am please correct me. )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I feel it necessary to point out that only in Star Trek can a canon inconsistency be justified with "it's just an alternate reality"... lol.

    I'd say STO is canon. I consider it to be unless someone more important in the franchise than myself or any of us says otherwise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Zodi-emish wrote:
    To answer that question. we are, we take in account star trek 11, and last time I check those books did not. ( I could be wrong, and if I am please correct me. )

    THE NEEDS OF THE MANY heavily implies that Destiny and STO are two forks of the Prime timeline.

    Both agree on the return of Data plus or minus a few details (in the STO-verse, he was brought back to fight the Undine in the late 2380s whereas I think his return was less urgent in the core novels) and both COULD allow for ST11 (although STO builds on it) but the two timelines start diverging after Nemesis due to Iconian and Undine tampering and its impossible to say which timeline is proper. (TNoTM does seem to imply that a book or two which contradict the bulk of the books on, I think, the gender of Ogawa's child are STO timeline instead of the novelverse.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Alright, final answer. Its soft canon.

    (and i like to put a pint of sugar in my water.. it makes it taste funny)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    adohi wrote:
    DO a search and you should find an answer there was a thread a few weeks were the Devs said that all things added and done have to be aproved by the rights holders so this in and of its self makes it cannon in that reguard.


    You should actually do the research you claim others should as you would find out that Star Trek cannon is very strictly controlled. Virtually none of the material outside of movies and TV shows is considered cannon. I think one or two Voyager books are counted, but nothing else. This game most certainly is NOT cannon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Whether it be a final unity, bridge commander, legacy, or any other ST game...despite who supports them, CBS or paramount, I never consider any of them canon. Never will.

    Certainly not STO by any stretch. But whether its canon or not doesn't bother me. It's a game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    According to the official Star Trek website the definition for canon is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.

    I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Star Trek cannon is very strictly controlled. The vast majority of the books, and all games are not cannon. Even the animated series is not cannon with a possible exception of certain elements in a single episode.
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