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Just have the Klingons join the Federation

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Roddenberry intended it to happen by TNG S1 and the episode "Samaritan Snare" has Picard and Wesley matter of factly talking about the Klingons as a member of the Federation.

It would need some serious development in-game. But a heavy story development like this after launch would reinforce the storytelling aspect of the game... and solve Klingon content issues, making it easy to share all missions.

I know it would be a major deviation from the original design plan and player expectations but it would be very much in the spirit of Star Trek. The trick is to effectively backpedal over the tensions setup so far.

I've said since beta that this game would be better as a one faction game.

Really, I think what we need is just a season where we discover that J'mpok and Admiral Yanishev are both Undine and we work with a secret Federation-Klingon Alliance to oust them. Meanwhile, everyone gets hammered by the Breen, the Klingons have a series of disasters on par with Praxis as Breen agents use the Iconian star destroying technology to cripple the empire.

The end result being the KDF rapidly becoming a major Federation member world -- albeit one with grumbling dissenters, who are kept in line by Worf.

The Klingon sub-faction retains access to unique content (and more on the way) while getting access to Fed content as well... And maybe groups like the Bajorans and the Vulcans get expanded sub-faction content as well.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Barring the fact the KDF is a military body and not in fact the High Council. Bear in mind the Empire is made of many worlds, all of whom wouldn't necessary welcome Federation membership..... Now of course I don't mind at all the possibility of some event on the order of the Dominion War shattering the Empire and causing a splintering like that, think the disintegration of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact as an example of this. That would also fit with some of the story threads that started with ST6.

    Additionally though that could lead to some interesting gameplay possibilities if you had a faction inside Imperial space that was actively fighting a guerrilla war...and even niftier if you could fight on their side. This would even give those people who are growling for Klingon missions something to gnaw on :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Cool ideas, I likey
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I don't like the idea of bringing the Klingons into the Federation. They have been set as a separate faction, not just in-game but also in the shows/movies.

    An alliance is a different situation and we already have that. Once you've reached RA Klingons and the Federation essentially set aside their differences to resolve the Borg/Undine issues. Granted they don't really work together, but they don't fight each other either. I guess it is more of a truce than an alliance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    While I agree with your assessment Leviathan that such a change would definitely improve Klingon PVE ... I think dev commentary about focusing more on the "war" between the feds and klingons would indicate to me that they have other plans.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    attilio wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of bringing the Klingons into the Federation. They have been set as a separate faction, not just in-game but also in the shows/movies.

    An alliance is a different situation and we already have that. Once you've reached RA Klingons and the Federation essentially set aside their differences to resolve the Borg/Undine issues. Granted they don't really work together, but they don't fight each other either. I guess it is more of a truce than an alliance.

    I really do think that anything beyond an adversarial detente isn't in the cards for a bit. Of course without knowing whats on the cards for Season 3 who knows beyond Cryptic what the future holds, we do after all seem to have Iconians in the future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Would kind of upset everyone that's bought the Fed-klingon race. What would be the point in having that species if you can play the fed content on your klingon character.

    Besides, I'm not keen on the idea of Klingons joining the Federation. You could have them sign the alliance they had again, a non-agression pact or something. Do it that way. Bu I don't think the Klingons would ever join the Feds fully.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    While I agree with your assessment Leviathan that such a change would definitely improve Klingon PVE ... I think dev commentary about focusing more on the "war" between the feds and klingons would indicate to me that they have other plans.

    It is entirely possible to 'fight' the 'war' in missions versus actual PvP. Of course I also wouldn't cry if some form of territorial gain/front line system materialized ala the thread Darren_Kitlore has rummaging about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Canon wise it happens. Just not for like another 100 years or so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Would kind of upset everyone that's bought the Fed-klingon race. What would be the point in having that species if you can play the fed content on your klingon character.

    Besides, I'm not keen on the idea of Klingons joining the Federation. You could have them sign the alliance they had again, a non-agression pact or something. Do it that way. Bu I don't think the Klingons would ever join the Feds fully.

    I think it would be easier to make that C-Store race extra special somehow (ie. baldric+Starfleet uniform access) than to really develop two factions to the point Klingon players want.

    In the end, if any MMO should have players on one side, it's Trek... And I see no reason why you have to have opposing player factions in an MMO provided you make wargames and monster play PvP compelling.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This is actually a good idea.... and probably the only way klingons would ever get ANY new content. I wouldnt mind since this game is basicallly one factioned right now anyways.. how much different would it be?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Canon wise it happens. Just not for like another 100 years or so.

    That was:

    A) an alternate timeline, wiped out by the end of the storyline

    and

    B) it showed Xindi and Klingons in the Federation BY the 26th century. That doesn't mean they couldn't have joined before that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This begs the question; At what point does STO actually support a seperate faction then?
    If not the Klingons, then what faction deserves its on playability?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Klingons should remain a seperate faction, they're too proud to entirely join the Federation, at least for now. A major disaster could change that but I like them seperate. However, content wise, they do need help. If they can't get full PvE content near Federation levels then I agree with an alliance idea to allow them to do Federation content. Only problem with that is the first 20ish levels where the Federation is fighting Klingons.

    Honestly I think that's the biggest problem with the Fed/Klingon war storyline it only lasts for about the first half of the game. Even then the other races now part of the KDF you fight seperate from the Klingons so they don't really feel like they are part of the same group. If the devs want the war to really feel like a war there needs to be more encounters with the KDF and all KDF forces should be a part of those missions so they feel more like a combined threat.

    I get putting their differences aside to fight the greater evils in the Borg/Undine, etc, but either both sides are fully committed to fighting each other in war or they should have minor scirmishes in lieu of that greater evil. Right now that's more of what we have so calling it a war does not good other than PVP. Personally though I'm for fully developing the Klingons as a complete PvE/P faction like the Federation and eventually adding in the Romulans in the same way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    This begs the question; At what point does STO actually support a seperate faction then?
    If not the Klingons, then what faction deserves its on playability?


    I think the idea of separate playable factions may be wrongheaded and counterproductive thinking, given the size of the dev team, the assets available and the IP itself, which has always featured one faction as the PoV faction. Klingons are popular enough to be a distinct subgroup with some unique content but why even have opposing player factions in a Star Trek game, much less a game with a development budget and development team one fifth the size (possibly less) of the average AAA MMO?

    Trek is about cooperation. The game itself could use the development time spent on content for all players and PvP doesn't require opposing factions.

    It seems like you satisfy the IP, Roddenberry's dream and the practical realities of the game's development if you fold down to a single faction game with Klingons and their affiliates being given just a bit of extra love compared to the other Federation races.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think the idea of separate playable factions may be wrongheaded and counterproductive thinking, given the size of the dev team, the assets available and the IP itself, which has always featured one faction as the PoV faction. Klingons are popular enough to be a distinct subgroup with some unique content but why even have opposing player factions in a Star Trek game, much less a game with a development budget and development team one fifth the size (possibly less) of the average AAA MMO?

    Trek is about cooperation. The game itself could use the development time spent on content for all players and PvP doesn't require opposing factions.

    It seems like you satisfy the IP, Roddenberry's dream and the practical realities of the game's development if you fold down to a single faction game with Klingons and their affiliates being given just a bit of extra love compared to the other Federation races.

    Are you to tell me games like Starfleet Command and Starfleet Armada can flush out a bigger story line for multiple factions yet an MMO can't come close to that??? Come on.... All it requires is some effort.... and money... opps, they have the money.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I dont like it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tyyy wrote: »
    I dont like it.

    Nobody does, it's a response that doesn't fix the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    Are you to tell me games like Starfleet Command and Starfleet Armada can flush out a bigger story line for multiple factions yet an MMO can't come close to that??? Come on.... All it requires is some effort.... and money... opps, they have the money.

    DO they really have the money though?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    DO they really have the money though?

    LOL they took ours.... And if you read about this game, you know they don't need that much staff to upgrade. Honestly, I think they should give this whole game over to a modder team and let them go wild.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Join the Federation - No

    End the war with the Federation - Yes

    Begin joint operations / episodes with the Federation - Yes

    It is abundantly obvious Cryptic is unable to keep pace with TWO factions with their development so rather than continue to perform under par with both, focus on one and then consider getting more. Hence why Romulans / Borg etc. wont be coming for at least 6 - 12 months.

    Since Klingons are unforunatly stuck being a seperate faction the only option is to leave them wrecked or make content creation easier on the Devs. As such, if the join sides with the Federation for missions it means content for Klingon and Fed players alike.

    It dosent even have to mean a re-write of the existing story. The Klingons are obviously fighting alongside the Federation against the Borg so a ceasefire must be in place. Make it offical that after RA5 - VA the Klingons have signed a tenacious ceasefire with the Federation. Naturally rogue elements from both sides are going to get hissy about it and can cause problems, allowing for a rehash of TOS Movies if you really want to go that far.

    PVP can simply be put off as random clashes or wargames between Federation and Klingons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    LOL they took ours.... And if you read about this game, you know they don't need that much staff to upgrade. Honestly, I think they should give this whole game over to a modder team and let them go wild.

    Yes but one of the bigger problems is does anyone out here on this side of things know how much the IP is costing Cryptic? Just because we have ponied/are ponying up money doesn't mean that they are flush with cash to do everything we would like done. Now granted they did get a decent infusion from the Gal-X I think, but I don't think that goes as far as anyone would like. As to another company leading the way, maybe but without knowing the whole story thats only speculation and there is nothing to say that any other company could do any better or worse for that matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Would kind of upset everyone that's bought the Fed-klingon race. What would be the point in having that species if you can play the fed content on your klingon character.

    Why? I have two Fed Klingons, and I'm happy with being able to use Fed uniforms and Fed ships with them. That's worth the 3 $. If Cryptic would want to be really nice to those who bought the race they could give them access to ships of both factions.
    paddoxx wrote: »
    Besides, I'm not keen on the idea of Klingons joining the Federation. You could have them sign the alliance they had again, a non-agression pact or something. Do it that way. Bu I don't think the Klingons would ever join the Feds fully.

    According to Enterprise (yeah, that's a crime against Trek, but still) they did. And in early TNG there were both a Klingon and a UFP banner on a Klingon bridge. It would be a bit to quick, but I would like a real alliance, meaning fighting side by side, exchanging officers and technology etc.

    By the way, I would say that J'mpok is an Iconian. I don't believe that an Undine would support the killing of many of his species.

    However, as great as that would be, Cryptic will never ever do it. They think that PvP is important, even in Star Trek, and unfortunately some players feel the same and wouldn't be happy with wargames on the holodeck. So let's be thankful, that they didn't install a speech barrier between the factions like WoW did to dehumanize the other side, but leave that entirely to the players.:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'd imagine they'd join the Federation after being nearly decimated or something. :P

    They're stubborn. Right now they're more accepting of other species. However they still think they can take on the whole universe alone. Maybe if the Borg assimilated Quo'nos and they were in a prolonged alliance with the Federation... along with new generations to be born with more open minds (old people have closed minds :p).

    They're not close to join the Federation in this game. Give it at least 100 years, probably more since Klingons seem to live for so long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'd totally like the option to join a pro-Federation Great House and declare war on the Romulan-loving traitors in the House of Duras.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    castmodean wrote: »
    Yes but one of the bigger problems is does anyone out here on this side of things know how much the IP is costing Cryptic? Just because we have ponied/are ponying up money doesn't mean that they are flush with cash to do everything we would like done. Now granted they did get a decent infusion from the Gal-X I think, but I don't think that goes as far as anyone would like. As to another company leading the way, maybe but without knowing the whole story thats only speculation and there is nothing to say that any other company could do any better or worse for that matter.

    Honestly, I don't care what the IP costs. Cryptic wanted to do the game and got what they wanted. The fact that they have such a huge IP and lacking on numbers to back up this MMO comes to one simple conclusion, the game is flawed.

    Plenty of trekkies past on this due to the Klingons at release. I know of even more people who are still waiting a 6 month review before jumping in.

    Nothing says they can't turn this game around, but it has to happen soon. You can either be The Matrix Online or your can be Eve, they both started out okay, yet one of them has been gaining more members then losing over the past few years, and the other one bargain binned less than a year after release.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't care what the IP costs. Cryptic wanted to do the game and got what they wanted. The fact that they have such a huge IP and lacking on numbers to back up this MMO comes to one simple conclusion, the game is flawed.

    Plenty of trekkies past on this due to the Klingons at release. I know of even more people who are still waiting a 6 month review before jumping in.

    Nothing says they can't turn this game around, but it has to happen soon. You can either be The Matrix Online or your can be Eve, they both started out okay, yet one of them has been gaining more members then losing over the past few years, and the other one bargain binned less than a year after release.

    Yeah /signed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Creovex wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't care what the IP costs. Cryptic wanted to do the game and got what they wanted. The fact that they have such a huge IP and lacking on numbers to back up this MMO comes to one simple conclusion, the game is flawed.

    Plenty of trekkies past on this due to the Klingons at release. I know of even more people who are still waiting a 6 month review before jumping in.

    Nothing says they can't turn this game around, but it has to happen soon. You can either be The Matrix Online or your can be Eve, they both started out okay, yet one of them has been gaining more members then losing over the past few years, and the other one bargain binned less than a year after release.

    I hazard to point out that EVE did not 'turn around' as it were until well after.....I believe it was the 3rd expansion so that's neither here nor there. Also, would you not concede the last time you saw the ORIGINAL jewel case version of eve on the shelves? Not the re-release that Atari co-produced, but the original game itself? There is no argument that the release was....flawed to be kind. And I still stand by my belief that Cryptic should NOT have caved in and given the fans Klingons at launch to begin with. And if that means your stated 'Plenty of Trekkies' passed on the game, so be it, but I know of no numbers stating this as I have no numbers stating the exact budget and expenses for the IP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think the idea of separate playable factions may be wrongheaded and counterproductive thinking, given the size of the dev team, the assets available and the IP itself, which has always featured one faction as the PoV faction. Klingons are popular enough to be a distinct subgroup with some unique content but why even have opposing player factions in a Star Trek game, much less a game with a development budget and development team one fifth the size (possibly less) of the average AAA MMO?

    Trek is about cooperation. The game itself could use the development time spent on content for all players and PvP doesn't require opposing factions.

    It seems like you satisfy the IP, Roddenberry's dream and the practical realities of the game's development if you fold down to a single faction game with Klingons and their affiliates being given just a bit of extra love compared to the other Federation races.

    I don't.
    If Cryptic can not flesh out the factions of the game then they should've not accepted the contract.
    Star Trek as a MMO should've never been considered simple or small as the fanbase is widely varied on what they like and want in their "trek" fan needs.

    STO has to have to have an antagonist or there is nothing to overcome, no foe to do battle against, no way to be victoriuos in the face of adversity. The Klingons are a logical choice for this role, actually the oldest choice if you think about it.
    Most players who play Klingons seriuosly doesn't expect them to rival or match the Federation in amount content this early in the game, but they do expect to be treated fairly and recieve such content as the game grows - otherwise they alienate an entire sub-genre fanbase.
    I can only see three real factions anyways in the life of the game. Federation and thier members races, the Klingons and thier conquered races and the Romulans and thier divided faction. Any other minor races will most likely just be absorbed by the larger faction that prescribes to thier ideals or social beliefs.
    A single all encompassing faction will be the death of STO in the long run in my opinion because the fans are only united in thier affection for Star Trek as a scifi setting and they break off into different likes/dislikes once you delve into the genre - the game has to reflect this or you will exclude some of the fans.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    its a lot harder to make good enemies than good heroes

    let's keep phasering klingons
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    J-Sheridan wrote:
    Join the Federation - No

    End the war with the Federation - Yes

    Begin joint operations / episodes with the Federation - Yes

    It is abundantly obvious Cryptic is unable to keep pace with TWO factions with their development so rather than continue to perform under par with both, focus on one and then consider getting more. Hence why Romulans / Borg etc. wont be coming for at least 6 - 12 months.

    Since Klingons are unforunatly stuck being a seperate faction the only option is to leave them wrecked or make content creation easier on the Devs. As such, if the join sides with the Federation for missions it means content for Klingon and Fed players alike.

    It dosent even have to mean a re-write of the existing story. The Klingons are obviously fighting alongside the Federation against the Borg so a ceasefire must be in place. Make it offical that after RA5 - VA the Klingons have signed a tenacious ceasefire with the Federation. Naturally rogue elements from both sides are going to get hissy about it and can cause problems, allowing for a rehash of TOS Movies if you really want to go that far.

    PVP can simply be put off as random clashes or wargames between Federation and Klingons.

    QFT! I like this idea the best! It would be a better game if this happens. Having Feds Vs. Klingons is an old tired song, that TNG has done away with. There are plenty of baddies out there to deal with on both fronts. Hell, we have Klingon BO's for cripes sake! Keep it the way it is until the first expansion/season where the Romulans become the true first real faction! Then make them the Klingons SIDE with the Feds. Much more interesting then. (and something we are used too).
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