It was said time and time again by Zink that C-store items were always going to be Cosmetic items with no REAL effect on gameplay. With that said, why the change of heart?
- I mean, it's kinda cool to have this bonus content rise up, come August, when I get some cash I will definitely buy the Borg BOF, and I am by far not arguing the decision made. I think it's an okay idea... not exceptional, or great... it's kinda a Meh moment really. (I don't support it, but I don't hate the idea completely either)
- On one hand, I really would like to get all the items that are promotion only, on the other hand, it gives players an unfair advantage if they have more cash to burn. Thus, giving a little unbalance to the game. So it has a positive side and a down side to this whole thing.
Finally, this topic isn't really to debate C-Store policy or argue the fact of why players need to pay membership and C-Store items as well. If you are going to argue that, please start your own topic on said matter. I would appreciate it greatly not to have a flame war starting up here regarding such, as it is a sensitive topic. Thank you.
No items in the C-Store cause a major unbalance in the game, so there are no problems. Aside from that, Cryptic has stated that anything that can be purchased in the C-Store will have an item that can be obtained in-game that is equal. So far I feel that this is true.
There's a somewhat official bull TRIBBLE response to this. One of 'em yellow texts basically said that the stuff is vanity/cosmetic stuff at it's core.
No items in the C-Store cause a major unbalance in the game, so there are no problems. Aside from that, Cryptic has stated that anything that can be purchased in the C-Store will have an item that can be obtained in-game that is equal. So far I feel that this is true.
I wanna see this actually happen before I start singing the praises of Cryptic for doing it
Recently, I had the chance to sit down and speak with Craig Zinkievich and Bill Roper about the sometimes controversial Star Trek Online. In the interview, they tried to address some of the issues that MMORPG.com readers have had with the game since its launch.
C-Store
When Cryptic launched their "C-Store" for Star Trek Online, many people were outraged. They felt that asking them to pay a subscription fee and then offering further products for sale on top of that fee was, at the very least, not in the spirit of MMORPGs.
Zinkievich and Roper answered the question by pointing out that they have a policy against putting items in the C-Store that requires players to buy them, with nothing required for advancement, and nothing that allows players to "play better," or, as Roper put it, the store is populated with "Nothing that's truly substantive."
I asked the pair about that statement, pointing out that the new races that were made available in the store do indeed come with Traits that are different from what is available for free. I was told that while the traits are certainly a part of the races, they are primarily there to add flavor to your racial choice, and that none of the races offered have "the best" traits, or are anything "better" than what is available for the original subscription fee. In the end, I was told, species traits end up being almost completely cosmetic.
I asked how the company justifies their C-Store and was told by Zinkievich that "if we didn't have that revenue from the C-Store, items in the C-Store wouldn't get made" and that the store allows items to be completed and made available to players more quickly.
No items in the C-Store cause a major unbalance in the game, so there are no problems. Aside from that, Cryptic has stated that anything that can be purchased in the C-Store will have an item that can be obtained in-game that is equal. So far I feel that this is true.
You can also get turbine points through gameplay afaik
There's a somewhat official bull TRIBBLE response to this. One of 'em yellow texts basically said that the stuff is vanity/cosmetic stuff at it's core.
Basically complete garbage lies.
And the point isn't about unbalancing the game...
Explain the advantage then. Right now the only debate is concerning the galaxy which can also be obtained using the referral system, even then, the ship is not that great. The ships in season 2 will not be on the c-store so I ask again, where's the advantage in those items on the c-store?
IN GAME MEANS =/= the referral system.
In game means usually means a manner in which you can buy or attain things IN THE GAME not through a system that isnt accessable through gameplay.
If not, then "attaimnable through in game means" is even more bullcrap a statement that "only vanity items"
I am guessing that the major concern or "ability" that people are referring to as an "advantage" that will be attached to a C-Store purchase is the Excelsior and it's Transwarp drive ability.
People are jumping to the conclusions as to just how powerful and useful this will be. So much so as people predicting that it will be used to huge advantage in future PVP updates to the game. (one's that haven't even made it to the drawing board).
Let's put it into perspective.
Just how often, do you plan to hop, skip and jump around the galaxy? I mean think about it, if you spend 90%of your time just Transwarping around the game, what content are you actually experiencing? Most players find that the current transwarp to Earth Space Dock resets long before the need to use it again. Expect a timer comparable to that, as well don't rule out item upgrades/abilites for your ship, that will be attainable through gameplay down the road.
Just think, like in the movie, this is going to be the "Great Experiment".
As with the other C-Store purchasable ships, there has been a theme of giving the ships special unique abilites that are canon to the specific vessels, The Galaxy-X and its cannon, Intrepid and ablative armour, Defiant and the cloak. Everyone knows that the Excelsior was the initial platform ship to test out transwarp drive technology.
*as a side note*
Did anyone stop to think there might be an achilles heel to the transwarp?;)
I am guessing that the major concern or "ability" that people are referring to as an "advantage" that will be attached to a C-Store purchase is the Excelsior and it's Transwarp drive ability.
People are jumping to the conclusions
Including you, as Im taliking about anything that is not cosmetic only, such as the only Federation ship we have access to that can cloak. (currently. Not talking about the retrofit, which isnt in the game yet anyways, and conveniently is put into the game later on, after the majority of the money has been milked out of the first ship - hows that treaty work if all the retrofit Defiants have cloaks now anyways?)
the wording they use, has always been a little vague and open to interpretation. words like 'almost' and 'nothing truly'.
if you read it they never say clearly that c-store items will be cosmetic only, rather than they are not needed to play or win.
people have interpreted those words and some have taken it as 100% cosmetic and nothing that affects game-play. in fairness that's not what was actually said.
the wording is nothing concrete and they seams to have always left themselves a window in their words.
i think what they meant was there will never be content or missions, but the items themsleves can have unique abilities but you dont need them to play the game, or buying them does not give you an 'i win ticket'
nothing you buy in the c-store has to be bought to complete the game or to enjoy it. the current races and ships do have some different abilities but nothing that make them that much better than what other players currently have.
i go back to the galaxy x and see the cloak and phaser lance that i cant get in the game and that does not feel right, but its not that great a ship and can be beat comfortable by other tier 5 ships, so the balance is still there, but people with money can buy abilities that others can not.
im not sure its right but that's what they have chosen to do. until i see a quote saying that everything in the c-store will be 100% cosmetic, then i don't think they have changed their minds and i cant really complain, if people have misinterpreted the words then that's another issue, should they have been much clearer about what they intended to do, then yes.
i personally would have keep it 100% cosmetic from the start but they have chosen not to do that. i cant say im actually that bothered and when i look at the wording as its open to interpretation i don't believe they have actually changed their minds, more that people have misunderstood their definition. i think we know their definition now.
in my heart of heart i have to say i actually don't care that much if some ships have special abilities that are unique.
as long as actual missions, game play features don't turn up there im cool with it. i've bought the stuff in the c-store and used it and been ok with it so i cant really complain as it would come across as hypocritical.
i would ask them to try and limit all future items to cosmetic only but im not that bothered if they don't.
and WHEN that happens youll have an argument to make. Till then, why are you taking him on blind faith?
Probably because I don't freak out over trivial things such as this. If you want the ships, that's on you, but I couldn't care less about any of the ones currently or going to be offered in the c-store. They don't affect my gameplay nor do they appeal to me asthetically.
I've purchased uniforms, some ship skins and a couple of races because I chose to. At no point do I feel that I'm being taken advantage of but then again, I look at things rationally.
Probably because I don't freak out over trivial things such as this. If you want the ships, that's on you, but I couldn't care less about any of the ones currently or going to be offered in the c-store. They don't affect my gameplay nor do they appeal to me asthetically.
I've purchased uniforms, some ship skins and a couple of races because I chose to. At no point do I feel that I'm being taken advantage of but then again, I look at things rationally.
Wasmnt aware I was freaking out.
Im pointing out the greedy TRIBBLE theyre doing, not swallowing everything they shove at me.
Guess that makes me a whiner then? Because Im not willing to listen to them lie and be quiet?
Bill and I have both posted over on the Champions boards to respond to questions raised by microtransactions. I'll just reiterate what's already been copied and pasted from Bill's State of the Game address on Champions:
The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.
A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character
Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap
Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play
These principles apply also to Star Trek.
BTW, I haven't been too active on these boards over the past few months. In my role, I oversee development of both Champions and STO (as well as another mystery project);
So far they're batting 2 out of 4.
They are correct with items 2 and 3... Stating that there are very few account-level management items there. However, they've added even more character-specific management items (BO slots, etc.). And true, MTs don't limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach level cap.
They are now redacting what they said and changing items 1 and 4... A great deal of items in the C-Store and coming to the C-Store are not just aesthetic items. Furthermore, many of these items are not "earned in the game through play" as they originally claimed.
This is going to get ugly , especially if they leave it to the orginal statement , Jackalopes post regardless of intent may have started a controversy that will be difficult to put out . It is going to require concrete example of what MT's apply to . This is going to quickly spin out of control.
Except it spun out of control when there are almost no subscribers around to care about it. Most of the STO subscription population is comprised of [fans|fanboys] and lifetime/yearly/6-month subscribers.
I was vehemently against the idea that subscriptions were dead and that microtransactions were everything. I'm not against microtransactions per se, just the idea that they should completely supplant subscriptions.
And Jackalope was correct, subscriptions are not dead. But to see large profits with subscriptions, especially for "theme-park" style MMOs, we need to see the development backing and progress. Cryptic isn't giving STO much for backing (the amount of work put into it is dismal compared to large name MMOs). So there's no doubt in my mind that STO will move to a F2P model with the C-Store carrying the profit load. After all, Dan Stahl the new executive director said a F2P hybrid method was a possibility.
As far as I'm concerned the only things in the store that are cosmetic are the emotes and bridge skin packs. All the other stuff has game play consequences weather people chose to ignore that fact or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is the official policy was breached some times ago. I really dont care but I simply dont like being lied to at worse or at best being marginalized as a qualitative member of the community.
As far as I'm concerned the only things in the store that are cosmetic are the emotes and bridge skin packs. All the other stuff has game play consequences weather people chose to ignore that fact or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is the official policy was breached some times ago. I really dont care but I simply dont like being lied to at worse or at best being marginalized as a qualitative member of the community.
Almost everything is cosmetic and what isn't cosmetic is balanced (i.e. the galaxy X is one of the worst ships in every aspect aside from the very limited scope of its lance and cloak).
I could explain logical positivism and its relationship with grammar statements but my sarcastic comments will do for now.
Needless to say, almost everything is cosmetic on the c-store (true statement and I'm glad you highlighted it on you post on the last page).
and to me, given the fact that the ships are your avatar half the time, ship abilities ARE gameplay features.
This is exactlly why this is maddening. Trying to pass these 2 ships off as just "fluff" and therefore cash-shop worthy is a joke and an invalidation of any money we have spent so far.
Personally, I don't see this so much as a change of heart as it is a final implementation of the original plan.
The hole Ciper is that they use qualifiers like "almost" and "mostly" which to the fans says "not"
Very true. It's still a form of deception, though. Of course, whether these are broken promises or downright lies is based purely on whether Cryptic intended to deceive us. I don't think they intentionally tried to deceive. I just feel they did a poor just living up to their casual promises of the past.
In other words, deception is still deception even if using sketchy words and without an intent to deceive.
Almost everything is cosmetic and what isn't cosmetic is balanced (i.e. the galaxy X is one of the worst ships in every aspect aside from the very limited scope of its lance and cloak).
I could explain logical positivism and its relationship with grammar statements but my sarcastic comments will do for now.
Needless to say, almost everything is cosmetic on the c-store (true statement and I'm glad you highlighted it on you post on the last page).
Almost means not quite all but most.
And Im glad YOU are happy with this. Im sure Cryptic nom noms your money happily.
There are a lot of us that arent happy, to whom "almost" doesnt mean "not"
Well, maybe youll be happier when us whiners are gone, and you Cryptic fans (not ST fans, not STO fans) will have the game all to yourselves
Comments
Basically complete garbage lies.
And the point isn't about unbalancing the game...
I wanna see this actually happen before I start singing the praises of Cryptic for doing it
Great example:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/feature/4110/page/1
cosmetic... uh huh
You can also get turbine points through gameplay afaik
Explain the advantage then. Right now the only debate is concerning the galaxy which can also be obtained using the referral system, even then, the ship is not that great. The ships in season 2 will not be on the c-store so I ask again, where's the advantage in those items on the c-store?
In game means usually means a manner in which you can buy or attain things IN THE GAME not through a system that isnt accessable through gameplay.
If not, then "attaimnable through in game means" is even more bullcrap a statement that "only vanity items"
I like how you skipped over the almost part - that you managed to highlight.
Syntax parsing for the win! :rolleyes:
Try looking up Stahl's post about getting them with other means like merits.
Oh, I've seen the post. You said the ships for Season 2 weren't going into the C-Store, which 2 of them are.
So "almost" means "not'?
and WHEN that happens youll have an argument to make. Till then, why are you taking him on blind faith?
People are jumping to the conclusions as to just how powerful and useful this will be. So much so as people predicting that it will be used to huge advantage in future PVP updates to the game. (one's that haven't even made it to the drawing board).
Let's put it into perspective.
Just how often, do you plan to hop, skip and jump around the galaxy? I mean think about it, if you spend 90%of your time just Transwarping around the game, what content are you actually experiencing? Most players find that the current transwarp to Earth Space Dock resets long before the need to use it again. Expect a timer comparable to that, as well don't rule out item upgrades/abilites for your ship, that will be attainable through gameplay down the road.
Just think, like in the movie, this is going to be the "Great Experiment".
As with the other C-Store purchasable ships, there has been a theme of giving the ships special unique abilites that are canon to the specific vessels, The Galaxy-X and its cannon, Intrepid and ablative armour, Defiant and the cloak. Everyone knows that the Excelsior was the initial platform ship to test out transwarp drive technology.
*as a side note*
Did anyone stop to think there might be an achilles heel to the transwarp?;)
Including you, as Im taliking about anything that is not cosmetic only, such as the only Federation ship we have access to that can cloak. (currently. Not talking about the retrofit, which isnt in the game yet anyways, and conveniently is put into the game later on, after the majority of the money has been milked out of the first ship - hows that treaty work if all the retrofit Defiants have cloaks now anyways?)
the wording they use, has always been a little vague and open to interpretation. words like 'almost' and 'nothing truly'.
if you read it they never say clearly that c-store items will be cosmetic only, rather than they are not needed to play or win.
people have interpreted those words and some have taken it as 100% cosmetic and nothing that affects game-play. in fairness that's not what was actually said.
the wording is nothing concrete and they seams to have always left themselves a window in their words.
i think what they meant was there will never be content or missions, but the items themsleves can have unique abilities but you dont need them to play the game, or buying them does not give you an 'i win ticket'
nothing you buy in the c-store has to be bought to complete the game or to enjoy it. the current races and ships do have some different abilities but nothing that make them that much better than what other players currently have.
i go back to the galaxy x and see the cloak and phaser lance that i cant get in the game and that does not feel right, but its not that great a ship and can be beat comfortable by other tier 5 ships, so the balance is still there, but people with money can buy abilities that others can not.
im not sure its right but that's what they have chosen to do. until i see a quote saying that everything in the c-store will be 100% cosmetic, then i don't think they have changed their minds and i cant really complain, if people have misinterpreted the words then that's another issue, should they have been much clearer about what they intended to do, then yes.
i personally would have keep it 100% cosmetic from the start but they have chosen not to do that. i cant say im actually that bothered and when i look at the wording as its open to interpretation i don't believe they have actually changed their minds, more that people have misunderstood their definition. i think we know their definition now.
in my heart of heart i have to say i actually don't care that much if some ships have special abilities that are unique.
as long as actual missions, game play features don't turn up there im cool with it. i've bought the stuff in the c-store and used it and been ok with it so i cant really complain as it would come across as hypocritical.
i would ask them to try and limit all future items to cosmetic only but im not that bothered if they don't.
and to me, given the fact that the ships are your avatar half the time, ship abilities ARE gameplay features.
Probably because I don't freak out over trivial things such as this. If you want the ships, that's on you, but I couldn't care less about any of the ones currently or going to be offered in the c-store. They don't affect my gameplay nor do they appeal to me asthetically.
I've purchased uniforms, some ship skins and a couple of races because I chose to. At no point do I feel that I'm being taken advantage of but then again, I look at things rationally.
I say it directly in a post and someone freakin' quotes that same post and asks the question.
Wasmnt aware I was freaking out.
Im pointing out the greedy TRIBBLE theyre doing, not swallowing everything they shove at me.
Guess that makes me a whiner then? Because Im not willing to listen to them lie and be quiet?
So far they're batting 2 out of 4.
They are correct with items 2 and 3... Stating that there are very few account-level management items there. However, they've added even more character-specific management items (BO slots, etc.). And true, MTs don't limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach level cap.
They are now redacting what they said and changing items 1 and 4... A great deal of items in the C-Store and coming to the C-Store are not just aesthetic items. Furthermore, many of these items are not "earned in the game through play" as they originally claimed.
Vuk was right...
Except it spun out of control when there are almost no subscribers around to care about it. Most of the STO subscription population is comprised of [fans|fanboys] and lifetime/yearly/6-month subscribers.
And Jackalope was correct, subscriptions are not dead. But to see large profits with subscriptions, especially for "theme-park" style MMOs, we need to see the development backing and progress. Cryptic isn't giving STO much for backing (the amount of work put into it is dismal compared to large name MMOs). So there's no doubt in my mind that STO will move to a F2P model with the C-Store carrying the profit load. After all, Dan Stahl the new executive director said a F2P hybrid method was a possibility.
So its not about Advantage or Imbalance?:D
QFT as I quoted above.
Almost everything is cosmetic and what isn't cosmetic is balanced (i.e. the galaxy X is one of the worst ships in every aspect aside from the very limited scope of its lance and cloak).
I could explain logical positivism and its relationship with grammar statements but my sarcastic comments will do for now.
Needless to say, almost everything is cosmetic on the c-store (true statement and I'm glad you highlighted it on you post on the last page).
Almost means not quite all but most.
This is exactlly why this is maddening. Trying to pass these 2 ships off as just "fluff" and therefore cash-shop worthy is a joke and an invalidation of any money we have spent so far.
Personally, I don't see this so much as a change of heart as it is a final implementation of the original plan.
Very true. It's still a form of deception, though.
In other words, deception is still deception even if using sketchy words and without an intent to deceive.
hahahah I missed you, there are fare more threads that need your attention.
Cryptic's new deception tactic highlighted for everyone there. Yyeah, we added gameplay items, but they're "balanced".
And Im glad YOU are happy with this. Im sure Cryptic nom noms your money happily.
There are a lot of us that arent happy, to whom "almost" doesnt mean "not"
Well, maybe youll be happier when us whiners are gone, and you Cryptic fans (not ST fans, not STO fans) will have the game all to yourselves