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A humble plea from a long term Cryptic game player

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Please please please Cryptic.. don't follow your normal MMO model with STO. This game has far more potential then any of your earlier releases and with Millions of Trek Fans out there, you have a responsibility to do everything you can to make it something special.

Before I proceed. I would like to say I'm not having a pop at Cryptic for previous games. I thoroughly enjoyed CoX and spent almost 4 years playing it. CO wasn't so good, but that is largely because of personal preference. After playing CoX for so long. When CO came out, i was disappointed at how heavily the game seemed to be geared toward being shiny graphics with no game-play. But that's another story,

Cryptic's usual model for an MMO is to be light on High end content, relying heavily on the term "It's not about the destination, it's about the journey". But to be honest, the journey gets pretty dull when its the same 5 mission templates, over and over again.

At the moment STO is on the line. The missions do start getting samey round about Commander level, but luckily the grind to admiral isn't such a steep curve that you lose motivation.

The difficulty in MMO design, as with any Game, is finding something that people will be happy to continue doing, even when there is nothing to be gained from it. For Example in WoW, there are people who have maxed out their gear, in both their main spec, and their off-spec, but continue to take part in raids, even though they have nothing to gain from it at all.

Understanding that WoW and STO are entirely different beasts, does of course count for something. But you also have to bare in mind, that most STO players have X-Pollinated from other MMO's. And with that comes a certain expectation.

STO is still really in its infancy
, so we have to make some allowances for that, But as well as making allowances for time, you have to keep pushing, and saying what it is you want to see. No game Dev, no matter how big or small, or how "In tune" with their player base, is completely aware of what they need to do to keep people playing. Prime example: Mission architect on COX. People were harping on about wanting it for years, and it completely destroyed the game as it basically gave Pro-Pl'ers and Gold sellers everything they needed to run their business, and for several months, the game was unplayable for the spam in Atlas park, and the /Tell's trying to get you to go to websites and such.

My point of course being that Neither the player, nor the developer can afford to sit on the fence in an attempt to keep everyone happy. Say what you want, and tell us if we can't have it.

That in mind here are some of my suggestions for content improvements.

There are a small percentage of players, who are just happy plodding along, pretending they are Jim Kirk, flying around aimlessly, and fighting deep space encounters all day. Then there are the RP'ers who spend a lot of time, sitting on their bridge, or in Quarks not really doing much, (that's not all they do I am sure but that's the exposure that most non rp'ers get), But the average player is neither of the above (Sorry but it's true)

The average player spends their time as captain hovering around nebulae, doing "Explore the X nebula/expance/belt", praying to all that is holy that Captain James Kurland will call them with a new mission in the next grade, and that the mission he gives you will yield enough skill points, that you dont have to repeat the same nebula mission too many times before the next one.

The average player, wants to get to admiral as fast as possible to get that shiny ship they have been eye-balling since they first walked through the shipyard.
We have all seen some of the shows and would like to think we could accomplish stuff like they did in X episode of X franchise. And whilst we know it would be far more effort then its worth, to add an engine to support going down to engineering and talking to Our eng officers about recalibrating the deflector array to emit a high frequency blah blah blah. I'm fairly sure that people who run a Deep space science vessel, want to be able to explore deep space, and do science vessel type things, such as monitor spacial phenomenon, and not just run around planet Gamma Theta beta pressing the F key when they get near one of 4 glowies.

ALL of your current skills are centred around Combat. Engineers don't do any engineering and scientists don't do any science. That is something that will very likely never change. But it wouldn't take much effort to add a few new mission templates so that you aren't constantly doing one of the following:

Analysing 5 anomalies in system x
defend base from X number of enemies
scanning 5 "Shipwrecks" and maybe fight off a couple of patrols
Defeat 5 patrols in X system
clicking 5 glowies in X base
Click 5 glowies and fight a few patrols

no doubt I've missed a couple there, but that's the list that i seemed to encounter most during my time.
Admittedly i havent finished grading up, i still have a couple of grades to go until i'm maxed out. But it seems to me that there are many avenues that have yet to be explored.

Class specific content.

An engineer is much more then someone who diverts power to X system at the captains command, or transports in a small turret to regenerate shields. They design new systems, maintain and optimize old ones, repair damaged systems, maybe even work with cybernetic life forms (Geordie spent most of his career with a screwdriver in the back of Data's head)

A Scientists is far more then someone who jams targetting sensors and heals the sick. i wont even bother listing all of the important roles that they play in real life as well as the Trek universe.

Whilst it is understandable that Cryptic wanted to stick fairly close to the typical MMO team mechanics of Tank-Healer-DPS, there is no reason that a brilliant scientist couldn't develop a shield array for smaller vessels that makes them uber enough to tank, or impulse engines powerful enough to make a cruiser move like an escort. and with the extra weapon slot, a cruiser could easily pump out high dps.

I would dread to think (and i fear its already happening a little from other threads I have read) that STO would turn out like WoW in that there is only one cookie cutter role for each class, and deviating from that makes you automatically a "N00b"

Back to the suggestions.

As much as we all want to see epic high end content, its impossible for it to go on forever, and so pushing that stuff aside you need to take a look at the games current engine through a looking glass and say "What are people going to do with themselves, once they have finished our new "Killz teh B0rg Queenz Face" mission?"

This leans back to the thread i made about the R&D system, as well as adding new repeatable content, or even just expanding the universe to the extent where people can go off and do a Picard and explore new systems and witness new phenomenon, or run around like a loon trying to work out why Q has stolen your shoe laces, Or do a Jayneway and get yourself lost in the far reaches of the galaxy, and annoy everyone trying to get home. Maybe even add something which im sure everyone would love to be able to do, which took Cryp a loooooong time to add to CoX and that's Fleet bases. that can be built from scratch and upgraded and maybe even raided by the opposing faction.

Anyway to end my rambling here ill sum up.

Dont just focus on shiny new High end content, remember that it has to end eventually. Add more stuff to do when the dust has settled and people who dont want to roll a new alt, can occupy themselves indefinately. also add new mission templates. The journey is no fun if you run around in circles.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Agree wholeheartedly with the need for high-end contents with much better rewards. Currently, whenever I finish STFs, I feel like I am playing Hardmode of Minesweep. Somewhat challenging with pathetic rewards/no rewards at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Some good stuff is what that is...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    While I don't totally disagree, at the same time I would very much LIKE more of the journey. I still feel its far far too easy to max out a character and get to the 'end game' experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    So far they seem to be looking at the DDO model and using $15 a month as the base end of the scale instead of free. Thats the model theyre going with.

    The rest of that is a slice of fried gold too.

    Im gonna sit back and wait for the "But the UGC will save us all" crowd
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    And here I thought this was another "Please make STO F2P thread". Good thing I read it; you make some good points. And while I don't agree 100%, as the journey is just as important as the destination in an MMO; I do believe there needs to be some balance. Very few MMOs on the market manage to make that balance; and that is why they are very popular and the others fail.

    I do see STO as heading in the right direction; but there's still a lot of work to be done and I think Cryptic is very capable of pulling it off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yes I agree with what everyone has added. Cryptic do have the ability to pull it off, and I am 100% certain that they don't want to TRIBBLE the pooch after the amount of money that they must have had to pay for the license. And yes High end content is equally as important as the levelling content.

    What i have personally witnessed, particularly in the biggest MMO's out there at present, is that dev's tend to ignore low-mid range content in favour of just adding shiny new High end stuff that amuses people for a few weeks, causes lots of arguments over rare-drops, and then its back to the same old grind.

    As i said before, High end content has to end at some point, and then you are left with the feeling or "Oh right what do i do now then? re-roll or repeat that same patrol mission?"

    I dont doubt at all that in time there will be new things added to the game which allow a more diverse experience. Perhaps they will make the R&D system worthwhile, or add new sectors to explore.

    Creating a game based on such a huge franchise is both a blessing and a curse. You have all of the background story to bolster you up, so you don't have to worry about the past. However you are also wide open to attacks from anyone who may find a dis-continuity.

    Also you can take into account that STO is set decades after Nemesis, and so new ships are something that can be looked into without breaking any rules.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Some really good points
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I couldn't agree more with the ideas put forward here. This game has so much going for it already and so much potential for future development and expansion. I think that the repetitive nature of the missions is an issue that needs to be addressed and is going to be improved upon in Season 2 from what I have read. It could very well be the shot in the arm that we're asking for. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Like every trekkie out there, I want to see this game succeed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    /agreed

    I love this game but it needs a lil more variety in the missions...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This one was very well thought out.

    Bravo OP, bravo!

    As for me, I see three massive bits of potential with STO for end-game awesomeness...

    1; the weekly missions. *If* they really do feel like weekly episodes of the ST shows can you imagine how cool they will be? It would be like having a Star Trek episode, except with you, your crew, your ship, and you are calling the shots.

    This assume they will be epic and excellent....

    2; The Genesis system. If it was fully realized its random missions could become more interesting, especially if the devs ever overhaul the basic exploration system to be more fun as they have talked about previously.

    Nothing quite beats the coolness of stepping onto an awesome looking random world. its just that we'd like more variety for missions on those worlds, and we'd like a better system for getting to them, especially one that lets us move as a team easily and feels more exploratory.

    This ties in with what you mentioned about class based content, and non-combat stuff, there is definitely the potential to make the accomplishing of exploration objectives more interesting than 'go here and click here'

    3; you mentioned high end combat and raids OP. To me, an open-sector territory control full blown persistent PvP system would be welcome and awesome.

    (there are enough pwnsome suggestions on these forums to fill a cargobay so I wont go into detail)

    It would give the Two sides end-game objectives to constantly vie for.
    Also, each little bit of this sector needs either a random map, or for special points a set made map, not just copies of the existing queue maps.

    In that note, eventually more maps in the queued PvP would be nice.

    Add this to a Klingon House system as I and I believe others have suggested, and you have even more possibilities for the Klingon side with regards to competitive PvP.
    (Imagine, not just fighting for Imperial glory, but also for glory for your house!)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Cryptic does not design raid-centric, tiered end-game hiearchy, large guild motivated MMORPGs. They never have. This won't be one of those games either.

    So any ideas on how to improve end-game need to keep that in mind. Ideas need to be solo and small group oriented.

    Otherwise you're asking cryptic to make a game they don't make.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    i Should clarify that i wasn't necessarily suggesting raids as a viable option, so much as using them as an example of what other MMO's have, to keep players on their high end alts rather then re-rolling. Raids in themselves are usually just a means to an end, however they are also distracting enough and challenging enough to keep players involved.

    I wouldnt expect Cryptic to add them at all, however the point still stands that, a new High end storyline will only serve as a short term distraction before you get back to the key issue i want to address, and that is lack of variation in current repeatable content, and "Exploration"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Cryptic does not design raid-centric, tiered end-game hiearchy, large guild motivated MMORPGs. They never have. This won't be one of those games either.

    So any ideas on how to improve end-game need to keep that in mind. Ideas need to be solo and small group oriented.

    Otherwise you're asking cryptic to make a game they don't make.

    I think that was the point?
    They need to make a game they dont make to make this game in the OP's view as good
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think that was the point?
    They need to make a game they dont make to make this game in the OP's view as good

    They don't make those kinds of games. Never have. It's not their design philosophy. So if that's the point, then this discussion is a dead-end.

    If you want to play EVE or WoW ... you have those choices. Cryptic doesn't make those games.

    The OP gets that actually. Reading his response to me I see the OP gets my point. But other posters ... and there are tons of them as I've read basically the "this sucks, let's raid instead!" thread since February dozens and dozens of times ... they chime in thinking how the best way to improve this game is to make it a raiding game.

    It's pointless feedback. Cryptic does not make that kind of game. Feedback given. But no results will come of that.

    So if that's YOUR point Deck ... then trust me ... you'll be sitting around for a long time with nothing to do.

    Thundorn gets that. He's likely looking for ideas to improve the end-game. Which is admirable. But is willing to come up with ideas that fit into the games Cryptic's staff designs.

    If you find that unacceptable and think this game will only work with dragon raiding Deck ... you're going to quickly get more and more frustrated with this game.

    Weekly episodes ... Interiors ... STF's that are 5-man content ... Fleet actions for single groups ...

    That's the kind of content this game is working on for the future.

    Ideas to improve end-game need to work within those types of content pieces.

    Dragon raids ... it's a dead-end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Odd, what youre accusing me of is what I got out of the OP but I like the game so I guess that doesnt count right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    They've already shown more commitment to endgame here.

    The new missions will scale with level to function either as leveling or endgame content and the devs all seem excited about the idea of letting us skip or level faster through content on alts.

    Examples of things they've shown interest in:

    - Having an option for Federation alts and all future factions be to start at level 5 like Klingons.

    - Letting us spin BOs off into alts.

    - Bonus skill point gains are tied to vet rewards.

    - C-Store items and pre-orders seem very targeted at leveling faster.

    - They've said they'd like us to be able to skip large chunks of the game (alts starting at higher ranks) to get to new endgame content faster.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Cryptic does not design raid-centric, tiered end-game hiearchy, large guild motivated MMORPGs. They never have. This won't be one of those games either.

    So any ideas on how to improve end-game need to keep that in mind. Ideas need to be solo and small group oriented.

    Otherwise you're asking cryptic to make a game they don't make.

    What would be the point in asking them to make a game they already make?

    Overall, I don't disagree with you but I think they've shifted more and more towards a "sandbox at endgame" philosophy and have realized it's easier and more rewarding to develop endgame content, to encourage investment in a few progressed alts rather than create fifty avatars who never make it that high up the ladder.

    This game (and Champions) are not City of Heroes and represent a shift towards an endgame focus.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'd also add, I think WoW is a tremendously fun and rewarding game at endgame without ever setting foot inside a raid or without regular raiding.

    Endgame doesn't have to be about raiding, per se. And raiding can be designed as a casual, puggable activity (which WoW has shifted more towards over its two launched expansions).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Thundorn wrote: »

    The average player spends their time as captain hovering around nebulae, doing "Explore the X nebula/expance/belt", praying to all that is holy that Captain James Kurland will call them with a new mission in the next grade, and that the mission he gives you will yield enough skill points, that you dont have to repeat the same nebula mission too many times before the next one.

    This paragraph sums up my experience during the rank of captain so well, haha!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    dont wory abbout what super chum says, he is a cryptic fan not a star trek fan,
    and this game is a complete disapointment to most star trek fans, with the exception of the gate way missions
    there realy is nothing in this game that feels like im playing good ol startek
    it feels like im playing a free to play game with amiture developers who,s star trek knowledge spans as far as the last few seasons of voyager, i dont want to give up on the only star trek mmo out there
    but im really hoping someone at atari or cbs will kick cryptics TRIBBLE and either fire and replace them or make them do the job they are being payed for
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    cryptic fan or not, there is always likely to be some dissagreement over whether or not raiding is something cryptic should do in this case. my Thoughts on the matter are varied, but my only request is that Cryptic dont do what they have done with other MMO's and leave us with nothing to do once we reach the level cap. P.S dailies don't count IMO. It just needs to be remembered that this isnt ust another MMO based on someones random brainstorm in Cryp HQ, its an MMO based on one of the biggest Sci-Fi franchises, which has a huge fanbase, and huge expectations
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I totally agree.

    One wonders how many years one will get out of "lifing"....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Pan420 wrote:
    don't worry about what super chum says, he is a cryptic fan not a star trek fan,
    and this game is a complete disappointment to most star trek fans, with the exception of the gate way missions
    there really is nothing in this game that feels like I'm playing good ol' startek
    it feels like I'm playing a free to play game with amateur developers who,s star trek knowledge spans as far as the last few seasons of voyager, i don't want to give up on the only star trek mmo out there
    but I'm really hoping someone at Atari or CBS will kick Cryptic's TRIBBLE and either fire and replace them or make them do the job they are being payed for

    I am going to ask what would make it 'feel' like good ol' startrek?
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