If you think about it, we are slowly, piece by piece, intentionally or not, getting all of the elements in place for player crews (in some fashion) to make an appearance.
The bridge is there. Engineering is there. Sickbay is there. Lots of other things are there. All you would really need would be a way to make the interior talk to the exterior. In other words, make things going on *inside* your ship (i.e. Players inside the ship doing things, fixing things, enhancing things) affect your ship's performance on the outside. (i.e. damage healed, buffs gained, anomalies scanned).
Ever play a squad based PC game?
I remember Tribes (old I know) where everyone wanted to be a sniper, or everyone wanted to be a loner...
Trying to run a whole ship like that would be insane...
Even in other MMOs you get a group together, unless its a guild run or people you already know, youre usually boned cause you get paired up with idiots.
I want to be. So long as it's an option, why be against it?
Ever seen/heard a oW raid? If not go to Youtube. There are plenty of videos.
Now, imagine that scenario for the entirety of the time you are in a ship.
but it will be fun.... you see you need a person for each weapon, for the shields, and for the engines. you control the ship, and they do mini games, and the better they do is the better that your ships does.
* 1950's educational video voice. *
for example
Jimmy here is doing really good in his mini game so your weapons strength is going up.
but oh no Lucy is doing bad at the game, so your shields are dropping look out. * explosion * well you dead, but that is life when you have player crews. isn't it fun?
A very likely scenario if we get 5 person crews where 4 are station heads and 5th being the captain:
If the captain gives a really dumb order A, then the engineer can say "that's dumb! let's do (dumb order !"
Helm answers "you're both noobs! Let's do C!"
Medical would retort "F this I'm gonna try to get captain on another ship"
Captain: "WTF we're about to engage!"
Tactical: "Dude engineer gimme power to my weapons!"
Engineer: "You ******, plan B means we give aux 100% first to fire off our specials!"
Tactical: "You incompetent *******! We're not doing plan B we're doing plan C, give me weapons!"
Helm: "Yeah noob, give me 50% engines too damnit!"
Engineer: "F all you guys" (logs off)
Captain: "%(%*&*(&*(&*(TRIBBLE)~@! you all just shoot him now!"
Tactical: "Can't we don't have any weapons!"
Helm: "Dude our crew's half dead where's medical?"
Captain: "He bailed out on us"
Tactical: "F him I'll switch to engineering"
Helm: "Too late, hull at 10%!!!!!"
(Booooooooooooooom!)
(sniff sniff) We are hereby gathered to pay our final respects to the crew of the USS TooManyChiefsNotEnoughIndians....
Ever seen/heard a oW raid? If not go to Youtube. There are plenty of videos.
Now, imagine that scenario for the entirety of the time you are in a ship.
...yeah, THATS the reason to fight against it.
So... don't do it with people you don't know? Damn, that was an easy problem to solve.
So... don't do it with people you don't know? Damn, that was an easy problem to solve.
Then that would bring this game to FFXI in space. Forced grouping, yuck. If they make it optional, fine sure I'll vote for it. Forced? He + 2xL over NO
I've got a standard group of people I play with every time I play. Yes, I would much rather have us all as one ship, like things actually worked in Star Trek.
I've got a standard group of people I play with every time I play. Yes, I would much rather have us all as one ship, like things actually worked in Star Trek.
Like I said, YOU have fun with that. IM not interested in it.
Optional or not, this would NEVER work. Not for STO. Make a new game if you want player crews.
Imagine, you're with your friends, everyones happy to be where they are. Good.
Now, for a whole bloody 15 mins, or however long the space portion is for the mission, Tactical cracks his knuckles and blows stuff up. Captain approves, while playing some minigame buffing all ship functions. Engineer plays some rounting game for EPS or whatever. Science plays some ECM-based minigame, enemies hmiss the ship more. Medical twiddles his thumbs, cuse the ship isnt being boarded, neither are any crew dying. Perhaps he plays some minigame to make the crew more immune to....whatever.
Except for Tactical, maybe Science/OPS, i question what exactly would the rest of the player crew be doing thats in anyway related to whatever mission you're doing? Especially with the more specialised Engineer and Medical.
Having everyone in one ship would be supremely boring for most of them. If you and your friends like that kind of thing, i tink you're better served playing a forum-based rpg, or Elite Force: RPG-X if you really need the visuals/sounds.
I dont recall the OP suggesting that idea, so I'm not sure where you even got that from.
Never said they did, but usually, in MMOs, when a brand new feature comes out, especially one that would require the kind of work to impliment this would, they try to tie the feature into raids and such.
Yes, it was an assumption.
One I tried to clear up to start with.
I dont recall the OP suggesting that idea, so I'm not sure where you even got that from.
He might not have suggested it, but look at it this way. There's no reason to use such a clunky system when honestly, no trek game has ever done. Hence if u had such a system, you'd design content around it. Otherwise it serves no real purpose.
The closest similarity to player crew ships in in SWG, larger ships could have multiple players. That worked because everyone who wasnt the pilot was a GUNNER. A substantial role.
Again as i said, whats the appeal when half the crew will just be doing mini-game esque things totally unrelated to the mission? They must sure love those games then...
No wait, in fact you cant have player crews doing the same missions as single player ships. If player crewed ships are no better than 1-man, then there's a serious inbalance where the player crew ship has to painstakingly coordinate within the team, while a single player ship already has everything coordinated automatically. And if player-crewed ships are better....well, it'll not just gimp soloists, but social players who dont want playercrews too.
but it will be fun.... you see you need a person for each weapon, for the shields, and for the engines. you control the ship, and they do mini games, and the better they do is the better that your ships does.
* 1950's educational video voice. *
for example
Jimmy here is doing really good in his mini game so your weapons strength is going up.
but oh no Lucy is doing bad at the game, so your shields are dropping look out. * explosion * well you dead, but that is life when you have player crews. isn't it fun?
Yep...
At least in most grouped situations, if one person's only moderately incompetent the others can at least avoid dying. Not so much with player crews...
Besides the various other reasons I would never want to participate.
No wait, in fact you cant have player crews doing the same missions as single player ships. If player crewed ships are no better than 1-man, then there's a serious inbalance where the player crew ship has to painstakingly coordinate within the team, while a single player ship already has everything coordinated automatically. And if player-crewed ships are better....well, it'll not just gimp soloists, but social players who dont want playercrews too.
Indeed. Trying to lump it all into the game would be... problematic.
as i first time heard something/k about this game i thought we are all on a ship and have different Roles
or maybe 10 Players / ship playing against other ships with players
And if anyone dont does his Job the Game does it but not so good as a player whould.
And if you played long enough you can become Captain.
Maybe like in Operation Flashpoint, Arma, Arma2 were you can give commands to some AI Soldiers. You can Command there 9 up to 29 AI Soldiers. Or a Game like Bridge Commander but with many Players at one Ship and the only think to do is fight with other Ship to Controal a System and later maybe beem on a Planet and built Buildings that make think you use to built better Ships like in C&C or Battlefield 2049 or Anno xxxx or Siedler.
...
But that whould not work because every player want to be Captain.
I think the proponents of this idea need to get specific about how it would work. Throwing the word "minigames" out there doesn't get anyone anywhere, and Cryptic's more likely to pay attention to specific mechanics than demands. Some questions I'd like answered...
Is your crew-member character stuck on one ship? If not, how do transfers work (both mechanically and in RP terms)?
Who determines promotions, and what would promotions mean, mechanics-wise?
Are there crew-member specific skills (as opposed to the current Captain or BOff skills)? What are they and how do they work?
What would a Sci, Tac, or Eng actually do on a ship? Here's where minigames supposedly come in, but 1) what are they, and 2) how would minigames work in a real-time ship battle?
Can any of these mechanics be implemented as extensions of the current mechanics, or would they require a different format or "mode" of play?
The last one's the real sticker for me. I can't see how the whole player crew idea would work unless Cryptic introduces a more RPG-style format, but, hey, I can change my mind. Let's see what you got.
Having everyone in one ship would be supremely boring for most of them. If you and your friends like that kind of thing, i tink you're better served playing a forum-based rpg, or Elite Force: RPG-X if you really need the visuals/sounds.
The idea would be for Cryptic to deliver this OPTION for those who are interested... AFTER they bring the Klingon Faction in line with the Federation...
It would have to be its own sort of mission type, always throwing stuff at each department to do...
If you think about it, we are slowly, piece by piece, intentionally or not, getting all of the elements in place for player crews (in some fashion) to make an appearance.
The bridge is there. Engineering is there. Sickbay is there. Lots of other things are there. All you would really need would be a way to make the interior talk to the exterior. In other words, make things going on *inside* your ship (i.e. Players inside the ship doing things, fixing things, enhancing things) affect your ship's performance on the outside. (i.e. damage healed, buffs gained, anomalies scanned).
I wonder what kind of a chore that would be?
I had the exact same thought while I was touring my ship.
The idea would be for Cryptic to deliver this OPTION for those who are interested... AFTER they bring the Klingon Faction in line with the Federation...
It would have to be its own sort of mission type, always throwing stuff at each department to do...
The thing is that the way i see it at least, even if demand for the feature is high, you'd need a whole new engine to make this work properly, closer to the kind found in sims like Bridge commander.
Avoiding the issue of what exactly each officer does in his/her department, i have to go back to the OP and say that actually, we're not moving towards player crews at all. Interiors are still instances that are separate from your ship avatar.
Dont get me wrong id love for an optional player crew concept. But this is not the game for player crews, its just not built for it. If players crews ever come to STO, it will be severely limited to, again, half the crew playing unrelated minigames or tweaking misc things, with no real sense of balance with the rest of the game.
Unless cryptic makes a whole new engine. And i doubt there's community support to make a new game structure within an existing one that really, isnt so bad. Afterall we're all captains of our own ships now ,regardless of our rank.
Comments
I remember Tribes (old I know) where everyone wanted to be a sniper, or everyone wanted to be a loner...
Trying to run a whole ship like that would be insane...
Even in other MMOs you get a group together, unless its a guild run or people you already know, youre usually boned cause you get paired up with idiots.
agreed, I sure hope it doesn't happen
Ever seen/heard a oW raid? If not go to Youtube. There are plenty of videos.
Now, imagine that scenario for the entirety of the time you are in a ship.
...yeah, THATS the reason to fight against it.
but it will be fun.... you see you need a person for each weapon, for the shields, and for the engines. you control the ship, and they do mini games, and the better they do is the better that your ships does.
* 1950's educational video voice. *
for example
Jimmy here is doing really good in his mini game so your weapons strength is going up.
but oh no Lucy is doing bad at the game, so your shields are dropping look out. * explosion * well you dead, but that is life when you have player crews. isn't it fun?
If the captain gives a really dumb order A, then the engineer can say "that's dumb! let's do (dumb order
Helm answers "you're both noobs! Let's do C!"
Medical would retort "F this I'm gonna try to get captain on another ship"
Captain: "WTF we're about to engage!"
Tactical: "Dude engineer gimme power to my weapons!"
Engineer: "You ******, plan B means we give aux 100% first to fire off our specials!"
Tactical: "You incompetent *******! We're not doing plan B we're doing plan C, give me weapons!"
Helm: "Yeah noob, give me 50% engines too damnit!"
Engineer: "F all you guys" (logs off)
Captain: "%(%*&*(&*(&*(TRIBBLE)~@! you all just shoot him now!"
Tactical: "Can't we don't have any weapons!"
Helm: "Dude our crew's half dead where's medical?"
Captain: "He bailed out on us"
Tactical: "F him I'll switch to engineering"
Helm: "Too late, hull at 10%!!!!!"
(Booooooooooooooom!)
(sniff sniff) We are hereby gathered to pay our final respects to the crew of the USS TooManyChiefsNotEnoughIndians....
So... don't do it with people you don't know? Damn, that was an easy problem to solve.
Then that would bring this game to FFXI in space. Forced grouping, yuck. If they make it optional, fine sure I'll vote for it. Forced? He + 2xL over NO
OK, make it entirely op[tional.
YOU like being in a raid every second you are in a ship, YOU have fun with that.
I have NO interst in that TRIBBLE.
Like I said, YOU have fun with that. IM not interested in it.
when your captain isnt online what do you do? play poker all the time? personally id sabotage the ship and put graffiti all over it.
Lol it reminds me of the 2 headed Ogre April Fool's joke from WoW
Imagine, you're with your friends, everyones happy to be where they are. Good.
Now, for a whole bloody 15 mins, or however long the space portion is for the mission, Tactical cracks his knuckles and blows stuff up. Captain approves, while playing some minigame buffing all ship functions. Engineer plays some rounting game for EPS or whatever. Science plays some ECM-based minigame, enemies hmiss the ship more. Medical twiddles his thumbs, cuse the ship isnt being boarded, neither are any crew dying. Perhaps he plays some minigame to make the crew more immune to....whatever.
Except for Tactical, maybe Science/OPS, i question what exactly would the rest of the player crew be doing thats in anyway related to whatever mission you're doing? Especially with the more specialised Engineer and Medical.
Having everyone in one ship would be supremely boring for most of them. If you and your friends like that kind of thing, i tink you're better served playing a forum-based rpg, or Elite Force: RPG-X if you really need the visuals/sounds.
Ok? If player crews are ever added, no one will make you be on their crew. That was easy.
Easy if those of us who dont want to be on them dont have to, and they dont make STFs where you HAVE to utilize the "feature", yes.
I dont recall the OP suggesting that idea, so I'm not sure where you even got that from.
Never said they did, but usually, in MMOs, when a brand new feature comes out, especially one that would require the kind of work to impliment this would, they try to tie the feature into raids and such.
Yes, it was an assumption.
One I tried to clear up to start with.
He might not have suggested it, but look at it this way. There's no reason to use such a clunky system when honestly, no trek game has ever done. Hence if u had such a system, you'd design content around it. Otherwise it serves no real purpose.
The closest similarity to player crew ships in in SWG, larger ships could have multiple players. That worked because everyone who wasnt the pilot was a GUNNER. A substantial role.
Again as i said, whats the appeal when half the crew will just be doing mini-game esque things totally unrelated to the mission? They must sure love those games then...
No wait, in fact you cant have player crews doing the same missions as single player ships. If player crewed ships are no better than 1-man, then there's a serious inbalance where the player crew ship has to painstakingly coordinate within the team, while a single player ship already has everything coordinated automatically. And if player-crewed ships are better....well, it'll not just gimp soloists, but social players who dont want playercrews too.
Yep...
At least in most grouped situations, if one person's only moderately incompetent the others can at least avoid dying. Not so much with player crews...
Besides the various other reasons I would never want to participate.
Indeed. Trying to lump it all into the game would be... problematic.
or maybe 10 Players / ship playing against other ships with players
And if anyone dont does his Job the Game does it but not so good as a player whould.
And if you played long enough you can become Captain.
Maybe like in Operation Flashpoint, Arma, Arma2 were you can give commands to some AI Soldiers. You can Command there 9 up to 29 AI Soldiers. Or a Game like Bridge Commander but with many Players at one Ship and the only think to do is fight with other Ship to Controal a System and later maybe beem on a Planet and built Buildings that make think you use to built better Ships like in C&C or Battlefield 2049 or Anno xxxx or Siedler.
...
But that whould not work because every player want to be Captain.
- Is your crew-member character stuck on one ship? If not, how do transfers work (both mechanically and in RP terms)?
- Who determines promotions, and what would promotions mean, mechanics-wise?
- Are there crew-member specific skills (as opposed to the current Captain or BOff skills)? What are they and how do they work?
- What would a Sci, Tac, or Eng actually do on a ship? Here's where minigames supposedly come in, but 1) what are they, and 2) how would minigames work in a real-time ship battle?
- Can any of these mechanics be implemented as extensions of the current mechanics, or would they require a different format or "mode" of play?
The last one's the real sticker for me. I can't see how the whole player crew idea would work unless Cryptic introduces a more RPG-style format, but, hey, I can change my mind. Let's see what you got.The idea would be for Cryptic to deliver this OPTION for those who are interested... AFTER they bring the Klingon Faction in line with the Federation...
It would have to be its own sort of mission type, always throwing stuff at each department to do...
I had the exact same thought while I was touring my ship.
The thing is that the way i see it at least, even if demand for the feature is high, you'd need a whole new engine to make this work properly, closer to the kind found in sims like Bridge commander.
Avoiding the issue of what exactly each officer does in his/her department, i have to go back to the OP and say that actually, we're not moving towards player crews at all. Interiors are still instances that are separate from your ship avatar.
Dont get me wrong id love for an optional player crew concept. But this is not the game for player crews, its just not built for it. If players crews ever come to STO, it will be severely limited to, again, half the crew playing unrelated minigames or tweaking misc things, with no real sense of balance with the rest of the game.
Unless cryptic makes a whole new engine. And i doubt there's community support to make a new game structure within an existing one that really, isnt so bad. Afterall we're all captains of our own ships now ,regardless of our rank.