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The myth of Lifetime freeloading

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Preorder lifers put in enough up front to buy 2 years of yearly subscriptions. Post-release lifers put in more. Lifers are absolutely not a source of red ink until March 4, 2012 and even at that point whether any specific lifer is a gain or loss for Cryptic depends on a wide range of factors. Lifetime subs do not drag the game down right now.

Yes I am tired of hearing that Lifers play the game for free. We don't. We paid two yearly subs (or more in the case of post-launchers) in advance in exchange for not getting charged again. The only lifetime subs on which Cryptic can be considered to incur an eventual loss are those who would actually still care to pay after the break-even point that that only becomes a theoretical possibility about a year and a half from now.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Please keep your posts clean. ~GM Tiyshen
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I support this statement.

    I'm not a lifer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Yeah. To expand on that I would have stopped paying for a subscription a few months ago had I been paying per month. So technicall My break even point would be in june 2012 somewhere.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    man those lifers what a bunch of cheap skates. :D


    I agree I have seen that happen on the forums, and I think it is because it is easy to forget that you did put in a big investment in to this game. we need to remember you are not playing for free until 2012. ( on the other hand I bet the bean counters see you all as free loaders )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Numerical nit-pick:

    Pre-order LTS: $240 == 16 months @ $15/month
    Current LTS: $300 == 20 months @ $15/month

    I find both the "Large up-front payment makes LTS special" and the "LTS are freeloading after N months" arguments tiresome.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Gym_Quirk wrote:
    Numerical nit-pick:

    Pre-order LTS: $240 == 16 months @ $15/month
    Current LTS: $300 == 20 months @ $15/month

    I find both the "Large up-front payment makes LTS special" and the "LTS are freeloading after N months" arguments tiresome.

    agreed entirely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Gym_Quirk wrote:
    Numerical nit-pick:

    Pre-order LTS: $240 == 16 months @ $15/month
    Current LTS: $300 == 20 months @ $15/month

    I find both the "Large up-front payment makes LTS special" and the "LTS are freeloading after N months" arguments tiresome.

    I choose to go by the bulk plans, since those wouldn't sensibly be offered at a loss.

    Also I never said anything about lifers being special, just tired of the BS about playing for free.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Gym_Quirk wrote:
    Numerical nit-pick:

    Pre-order LTS: $240 == 16 months @ $15/month
    Current LTS: $300 == 20 months @ $15/month

    .

    lets be honest:

    Today, 6 months = 74.95, so at today's rates LTS is 4x 6-months = 24 months, not 20

    Pre order could have bought $119.00 Pre-order annual, so again 24 months for their money.

    So, Lifers pay for 2 full years up front, then pay for free.... not counting interest on their money.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I kind of wish I hadn't purchased a lifetime membership.

    Not because I dislike the game.. I certainly DO like it. But I laid out a big busload of cash on that, and I haven't fired up the game in weeks. I'm at the point now (been here since beta) that my character is getting near to Captain.. (my first character).. and part of me wants to wipe it and start over, part of me DOESN'T want to do all those missions over again.. Getting to where I am in the game has taken a long time, and I'm not one of those super players who can get to RA in a weekend.

    Meanwhile, I think I would have preferred the less expensive "pay as you go" plan.. since if I had bought time on a card or something, I'd have spent way less for the time I've actually used.

    But I bought the lifetime because I KNEW this would happen.. and months down the road, when finances weren't so predictable, I didn't want to have to try and JUSTIFY paying for STO time.

    At the rate I'm (not) burning time in STO, it'll be well into 2015 before I've broken even.

    It's a cool game, but once I reached Commander, it just got kind of lonely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I choose to go by the bulk plans, since those wouldn't sensibly be offered at a loss.

    Also I never said anything about lifers being special, just tired of the BS about playing for free.

    In the past, the "Freeloading" argument has been hauled out in response to the "special" argument.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    another thing i think most of the early lifetimers actually bought multiple keys to the game just to get diffrent preorder items...

    # Star Trek Online - Preorder
    # Star Trek Online Closed Beta
    # Star Trek Online - Preorder
    # Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription
    # Star Trek Online - Gold Edition
    # Star Trek Online - Retail
    # Star Trek Online - Digital Deluxe
    # Star Trek Online - In game items

    thats from my account :P
    Allso i spendt a lot of money in the cstore both here and in their champions online game

    Activated Features

    * Champions Online Lifetime Subscription
    * Champions Online Retail - Direct2Drive
    * Champions Online Public Test Shard

    now calling me a cryptic freeloader etc is a bit well off mark..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I think the problem here is just thinking "monthers" are talking about future value of a subscription. I know most of us look at Cryptic and say; "You got thier money. Nothing they say or do will change that. Now if you still want to get mine you have to earn it, by giving me want I want first, and then the guys you bilked second. I can always cut off my cash...they can't."

    Sorry but its true. They want the income they may get from us...then they need to listen to the "monthers" and tell the "lifers" they can wait. Giving them what they want first is what agitates most of us and makes us call "freeloader". Again sorry, but thats the power of money and capitalisim. We would be fools not to use it to our advantage.

    Just like the whole C-Store issue. If you don't agree...don't complain, just cut off the cash. If it dosen't fill the bank they will stop it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Given the fact that the game launched this year ,breaking even wont be until 2012.I also buy from the C-store.Its an investment.So the only investment that has paid off really well has been Turbine's Lord of the Rings which i have a lifer account for.It paid itself off a year and half ago.Since its going free to play, i literally dont pay for anything.
    Its nice not having to pay a monthly fee though.Its always better if you can pay up front.SWG i took a big loss on two accounts.I also took a 6 month loss with Tabula Rasa.But heres to Turbine and Cryptic.I wish them both well in their endevours.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Wordun wrote:
    I think the problem here is just thinking "monthers" are talking about future value of a subscription. I know most of us look at Cryptic and say; "You got thier money. Nothing they say or do will change that. Now if you still want to get mine you have to earn it, by giving me want I want first, and then the guys you bilked second. I can always cut off my cash...they can't."

    Sorry but its true. They want the income they may get from us...then they need to listen to the "monthers" and tell the "lifers" they can wait. Giving them what they want first is what agitates most of us and makes us call "freeloader". Again sorry, but thats the power of money and capitalisim. We would be fools not to use it to our advantage.

    Just like the whole C-Store issue. If you don't agree...don't complain, just cut off the cash. If it dosen't fill the bank they will stop it.

    wich is why i wount use the cstore at all anymore it the only way i can show my main disgust with the cstore going where its going..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Wordun wrote:
    I think the problem here is just thinking "monthers" are talking about future value of a subscription. I know most of us look at Cryptic and say; "You got thier money. Nothing they say or do will change that. Now if you still want to get mine you have to earn it, by giving me want I want first, and then the guys you bilked second. I can always cut off my cash...they can't."

    Sorry but its true. They want the income they may get from us...then they need to listen to the "monthers" and tell the "lifers" they can wait. Giving them what they want first is what agitates most of us and makes us call "freeloader". Again sorry, but thats the power of money and capitalisim. We would be fools not to use it to our advantage.

    Just like the whole C-Store issue. If you don't agree...don't complain, just cut off the cash. If it dosen't fill the bank they will stop it.

    The whole getting the game for free and buying add ons is an Asian philosophy.Asians dont see the point in paying a monthly fee (unless they are making money of course!).However in the long term they do get nickel and dimed to death via a store option.Check out some of those "free" asian MMOs and youll see what im talking about.
    Even WoW now has a store option you can use.Its just the nature of MMOs now.If a company can make money off the game and a store option then all the power to them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm a lifer as well, and to say that I'm a freeloader... well.

    Activated Features:
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription
    * Wrath of Khan Admiral's Uniform
    * Star Trek Online Del Taco Promotion D
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Deluxe
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Collector's Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online Public Test Shard
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail

    I should also mention that I have completely bought out the c-store. And I am working my butt off to pay for all of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm no accountant, but something all these "break-even" calculations fail to take into account is the future value of money. To give you an idea of the significance, if you put $240 into some sort of financial investment that accrues 5% per month and only withdrew $15 per month for your sub fee, that $240 would last you nearly 33 months.

    The numbers will vary wildly, of course, if you take into account subscription discounts and a more realistic (perhaps?) investment APR...

    Anyway... :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm a lifer as well, and to say that I'm a freeloader... well.

    Activated Features:
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription
    * Wrath of Khan Admiral's Uniform
    * Star Trek Online Del Taco Promotion D
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Deluxe
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Collector's Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online Public Test Shard
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail

    I should also mention that I have completely bought out the c-store. And I am working my butt off to pay for all of it.

    hehe you refered yourself for the galx ? :P i was thinking about it but then i reminded myself i play klingons i allready got battle cloak :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I in no way regard anyone who purchased a LTS as a freeloader. One of my best friends has one, and if I had not spent so much upgrading my machine to run this game I woould have had one as well. My only complaint is that I see so many people with LTS telling us that are unhappy to quit whining. Understand that while I mean no disrespect to you, you have allready paid your money up front and I need to know if I should stop paying now and quit wasting money until the game goes F2P. I went for 2 months that I hardly logged in at all and played EQ2, PotBS and APB. But I kept my STO sub active so that: a) I can always login and play when I want. b) I'm supporting the game that I have wanted to play since I started play Star Trek the Role Playing Game in 8th grade (I still have my books, hehehe...) :o

    If this thing is going F2P, I have no desire to keep giving money to a company that does not value me as a customer, or give me value for the money they want me to keep giving them. It is in no way, shape or form an insult to any of the lifers, we're just trying to stop he bleeding for the rest of us and it sometimes seems like the lifers think we don't have a right to be upset.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Preorder lifers put in enough up front to buy 2 years of yearly subscriptions. Post-release lifers put in more. Lifers are absolutely not a source of red ink until March 4, 2012 and even at that point whether any specific lifer is a gain or loss for Cryptic depends on a wide range of factors. Lifetime subs do not drag the game down right now.

    Yes I am tired of hearing that Lifers play the game for free. We don't. We paid two yearly subs (or more in the case of post-launchers) in advance in exchange for not getting charged again. The only lifetime subs on which Cryptic can be considered to incur an eventual loss are those who would actually still care to pay after the break-even point that that only becomes a theoretical possibility about a year and a half from now.

    It is the nature of MMORPG forums for everyone to get their panties in a wad over the stupidest things. Get used to it. Everyone is convinced someone else is getting something unfairly.

    Lifetime subscriptions are part of a strategy, not to make money directly from the lifers, but to reduce the chances that the player population will dip below some critical point where the game needs to be shut down. So even after lifers reach the point where they are "playing for free", they are doing so at the time when most MMORPG developers are desperate to maintain the appearance that the player base is not evaporating. By maintaining the right appearances, they can (theoretically) hold on to more paying subscribers.

    Obviously this strategy did not work for games like Hellgate: London, but hopefully it will work its magic in this game. Eventually I'll get sick of this game and stop playing (as happens with all MMORPGs), but if they can keep enough players to keep adding new content, I may come back every so often regardless of what warts the game has.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Preorder lifers put in enough up front to buy 2 years of yearly subscriptions. Post-release lifers put in more. Lifers are absolutely not a source of red ink until March 4, 2012 and even at that point whether any specific lifer is a gain or loss for Cryptic depends on a wide range of factors. Lifetime subs do not drag the game down right now.

    Yes I am tired of hearing that Lifers play the game for free. We don't. We paid two yearly subs (or more in the case of post-launchers) in advance in exchange for not getting charged again. The only lifetime subs on which Cryptic can be considered to incur an eventual loss are those who would actually still care to pay after the break-even point that that only becomes a theoretical possibility about a year and a half from now.

    THANK YOU!!! Finally, someone who actually understands. It's ridiculous, just because I dropped over $300 for lifer, all of a sudden I'm getting ripped on for so called, 'playing for free.' How the hell is dropping $300 to play a game with a months worth of content PLAYING FOR FREAKING FREE!?!?! GRRRRRRRRR!!!

    There... better now.

    If anything, I paid more than the monthly sub's...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    PodSix wrote:
    I kind of wish I hadn't purchased a lifetime membership.
    .

    My friend wishes he hadnt bought the LTS and got screwed out of getting a refund for that LTS (even though they said they never gave them out when he called them - but they did).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm a lifer as well, and to say that I'm a freeloader... well.

    Activated Features:
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (1)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (2)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (3)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (4)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (5)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (6)
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder (7)
    * Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription [ so all the copies were for naught]
    * Wrath of Khan Admiral's Uniform
    * Star Trek Online Del Taco Promotion D
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Deluxe [ not bad, lets call this Copy #2]
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail [Copy #3]
    * Star Trek Online - Retail [ copy #4 ]
    * Star Trek Online - Collector's Edition [ Goody, he got a book and a badge]
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail [ Copy #5]
    * Star Trek Online - Retail Edition [ copy #6]
    * Star Trek Online - Retail [Copy #7]
    * Star Trek Online - Retail [Copy #8]
    * Star Trek Online - Retail [ Copy #9]
    * Star Trek Online Public Test Shard
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail [Copy #10.. OMG..10 copies?]

    Let see, 10 copies at how much each, just to see everything go into the C-store? Freeloader is hardly the word I would use, but there IS a word for this, , ,
    I should also mention that I have completely bought out the c-store. And I am working my butt off to pay for all of it.

    NO COMMENT
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm a lifer as well, and to say that I'm a freeloader... well.

    Activated Features:
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online - Preorder
    * Star Trek Online Lifetime Subscription
    * Wrath of Khan Admiral's Uniform
    * Star Trek Online Del Taco Promotion D
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Deluxe
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Collector's Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail Edition
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online - Retail
    * Star Trek Online Public Test Shard
    * Star Trek Online - Digital Retail

    I should also mention that I have completely bought out the c-store. And I am working my butt off to pay for all of it.

    You bought all those versions, that's going a bit too far for me, that must have cost you an arm and a leg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    im getting a bit tired of being a lifer and still having to fork out money for parts of the game that should have been in at the start.

    ill just say about the recent "PER CHARACTER" garbage that cryptic has put out, it is purly a means to make more money. it wouldnt have bothered me if it was for the whole account i would have paid for it but. Percharacter i wont touch it till it is for the whole account.

    i have bought a lot of stuff from the c-store all the ship skins most of the bridge packs the trible, conny , uniforms the galaxy x. BUT for people like me that would like to collect every single starship in the game its too much i would have to spend somthing like 50 quid or higher to get all the ships for a single character.

    So i dont see myself as a freeloader as ive probbly bought c-store points to equivalent price to monthly sub. AND paid the lifetime subscription.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Wordun wrote:
    I think the problem here is just thinking "monthers" are talking about future value of a subscription. I know most of us look at Cryptic and say; "You got thier money. Nothing they say or do will change that. Now if you still want to get mine you have to earn it, by giving me want I want first, and then the guys you bilked second. I can always cut off my cash...they can't."

    Sorry but its true. They want the income they may get from us...then they need to listen to the "monthers" and tell the "lifers" they can wait. Giving them what they want first is what agitates most of us and makes us call "freeloader". Again sorry, but thats the power of money and capitalisim. We would be fools not to use it to our advantage.

    Just like the whole C-Store issue. If you don't agree...don't complain, just cut off the cash. If it dosen't fill the bank they will stop it.

    Although one could suggest that one reason why they're still putting work into the game (or might keep putting work into the game in the near future) is because the LTS funds kept them going through lean times.

    You can't pretend monthers exist in a vacuum; they don't. Both sides of the subscription model exist, and each contributes funds in their own way. Arguing which is more important or which is more valuable is akin to two leaves fighting over which one owns the tree, IMHO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    right now with the investments i made i feel like a SUCKER a gullable fool that parts with his money to easy.
    But i had faith in cryptic that they really wanted to make a startrek game and do the IP justice ....
    But the feeling right now is a bad taste in my mouth...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Have used the C-Store, and spent additional real cash there, even though I'm hating it. When/if Romulans arrive, I'll use it more of course. Also bought the Digital Deluxe Download thingie AND invested in a lifetime sub before the free month was up. So I'm doing my part. Now to see if my investment pays off though.

    I'll buy anything Romulan from the C-store in time no doubt. If/when available. That's the limit to my involvement here. I'm not sure this makes me anything but a regular consumer though. ;)

    ---
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Lifetime is just another form of payment.
    It is nothing special.

    I payed a One Year sub... so why do Lifers get a Blue nick and ingame goodies and my nick is still white?
    The only thing i got are 2 more Char Slots. Which means i saved a few C-Points, ....big deal!
    Lifers got a player race, access to the "lifers table"... and if i am not mistaken a special Badge for the Uniforms.

    So tell me what makes lifers so much better then me that they deserve ingame goodies and a blue *look how awesome i am* nick in the forums?

    I don't get it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Benfea wrote: »
    It is the nature of MMORPG forums for everyone to get their panties in a wad over the stupidest things. Get used to it. Everyone is convinced someone else is getting something unfairly.
    .

    Can I get an Amen!
    I bought a life sub during CB because I liked STO and liked it enough to spend $240+retail for the game so I could continue to enjoy it without having to worry about the sub fee ever again.
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