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DEVS: Clarification about the DEFENSE CAp and the Miss-Chance

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited July 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Hi Folks,


Introduction:

as you all knows, or should know, we have a stat called "BONUS-DEFENCE", which depends mostly on your velocity.
The higher, the better...but as we all know, it is capped by 75 %.

The only way,reaching more for a short period are two special skills: EM and APO (the only both i knowing, but thats NOT the point)

Those mentionend 75%, you could reach even with very low Engine-Power-Settings up to 35% and less with the correct skills and engines... (but thats again not the point)


Observations and Problem:

Theoretically, an engine-setting higher than the necessary one for reaching the Cap, SHOULDNT give you an extra Miss-Chance !!!
It SHOULD does no matter, whether you were flying with 100 Engine-Power or only 35 Engine-Power (when you are reaching the Cap at this given speed) for calculating the Miss-Chance...

But in the last PvP-matches, i often observed that it "SEEMED" to be the case, that i was hitting Targets softer and more seldom, which are flying with very high Engine-settings, much higher than necessary to reach the cap... and they ARENT using any Extra-Skills !!!


Question:

- Are my Observations wrong???
Theoretically it should be so... if you had reached the Cap, flying with "normal" speed (without those both skills), it should does no matter for the Miss-Chance whether you fly with higher Engine-Settings as necessary or not...

- am i missing something?


Thanks for the Clarification :)


P.S.: When we are talking about the Bonus-defence... it isnt very understandable and "canon" that the Cap is the same for cruisers as for escorts^^... Escorts should have a much higher Cap, but reaching it only with much higher Engine-setting (that would also fix the insane damage-Output cuz they had to fly with much power in the engines, and lesser in weapons;)) and Cruisers the opposite: lower Cap, but reaching it with low engine-Settings...
But this only by the way
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    There isn't actually a cap on defense. There is a cap on how much defense you get from speed, and that happens at 26 impulse speed which gives you +50% defense, but it has nothing to do with your engine setting, only your speed. You can get +15 from skills, and +10 from the captain trait. The only other ways to get more defense, like you said, are from APO, and EM which last a very short time.

    Now you're saying that it seems that someone has gone beyond this, but where is your evidence? Just saying it seems like they went beyond it doesn't prove anything. If you can run numbers on your combat log and get an actual miss percentage, factor in your accuracy rating, then we have something to actually go on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Foxrocks wrote:
    There isn't actually a cap on defense. There is a cap on how much defense you get from speed, and that happens at 26 impulse speed which gives you +50% defense, but it has nothing to do with your engine setting, only your speed. You can get +15 from skills, and +10 from the captain trait. The only other ways to get more defense, like you said, are from APO, and EM which last a very short time.

    Now you're saying that it seems that someone has gone beyond this, but where is your evidence? Just saying it seems like they went beyond it doesn't prove anything. If you can run numbers on your combat log and get an actual miss percentage, factor in your accuracy rating, then we have something to actually go on.


    Sorry m8...but you misunderstood me completly, and btw, you arent right about the topic:


    Really, there IS actually a Cap at the Bonus-Defence !!! You are right, skills and yor Captain traits are taken into account...but depending on those the maximum reachable Number is limited !!

    Everyone could prove that:
    Fly with full speed, look on the Rating for the Bonus-Defence and increase step by step the power allocated to the engines... you will see, that at a given moment, the Defence will no longer raise, even if you will allocate more power to the engines... When you will reach that limit, it depends on your Engines and Captain-Skills... but you WILL reach this limit !! BEFORE allocating full power to the engines...

    To your other point, clearly the VELOCITY determines your Defence-Bonus, but your Velocity is determined by your engine-power-setting...

    So much about your points...


    But MY point was, and you havent answered this:

    IS THERE A "HIDDEN" CALCULATION IN THE BACKGROUND, given that you have reached your maximum Defense-Bonus, but INCREASING your enginepower beyond that point (flying faster) and despite the fact, that on your Info will be shown NO change about the Bonus-Defence... but could it be possible that your chance to get missed is nevertheless increased???? Even when its theoretically not possible ??

    Sorry for that terrible grammar, but i was getting headaches, trying to argue in another way, cuz i was obviously misunderstood in my former one...


    I hope, now everything is clear...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    On Tribble, Snix said once that there is harcoded cap on your defence, so there is always at least 25% chance of you being hit. So my guess is, that even if your defence rating raises above the speed cap, you always have the chance of being hit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Dalnar wrote:
    On Tribble, Snix said once that there is harcoded cap on your defence, so there is always at least 25% chance of you being hit. So my guess is, that even if your defence rating raises above the speed cap, you always have the chance of being hit.


    I've never heard that, but even if true, the only way you're going to get over 75% defense is APO and EM. And of course your opponents accuracy reduces that, which means without APO and/or EM you don't ever even have 75% defense.


    But back to the OP, asking the question is not really going to get an answer. You need to test it with combat logs, and parse them to get an answer and calculate actual miss rate.

    Obviously its not intended that defense from speed goes over 50%, but if it does, then that is a bug. So you have to show there is a bug first, or that it works properly, and that requires actual testing. In general, your real defense with 26+ speed is between 30-50%, depending on your traits and opponent's traits, when you factor in the typical accuracy from weapons and captain skills.
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