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Thoughts about the STO crafting system

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
...or better: Future visions about the STO crafting system.

For me, crafting is a very important part of any MMO.
Especially into the Star Trek universe, the scientific and engineering issue is really powerful.
Nothing against Cryptic, but the crafting as it is for the moment, is just joke, stupid item-swapping, not more.

Together with the Star Trek Online Info Community, I have collected several ideas:

Basically:
The actual version of the crafting system is not as good as it could be. The location Memory Alpha, the graphical implementation and the user interface looks great. But the items and the logic behind that are not.

What we can change now?


Motivation:
The motivation-issue affects not only the crafting system, but loot items as well. They are not really unique, that results automatically into missing motivation.

The sense of a Special Task Force is initially the novelty/challenge and after a short time only the coexistence with your teammates, but not the reward (badge-shop-items are better).

If you take a look at the crafting-items, they are only useful at low levels. High-end players wouldn't craft anything. There is a predefined list of many different items and especially in quality and abilities (properties) are even predefined (and fix). The charm to craft is lost completely; they exists better into the shops. The shops will supersede the crafting.

The order of the best items could be: Task Force Boss Loot, Task Force Loot, Crafting (1) Mission Reward, Mission Loot, Crafting (2), Shop.

The equality of items (and Craftables) results into diminished motivation and that is one of the main problems, it serves no real purpose.

The solution is to relax the predefined values.

E.g.: An epic Tetryon Dual Heavy Canon has always a 2.5% chance to remove xx shield, Accuracy +0.1, Critical Severity +20% and Critical Chance +20% and sometimes +Borg Damage (that’s cool and a beginning).

Why do you don't implement a value range (loot table)?


Example: The Critical Chance varies in Crafting between +10% and +30%, in Bossloot between +20% and +40% (the chances getting smaller as higher the value is) etc. Unique items will appear!


Personalizability:
In further consequence you can influence the value range by several factors, or a combination of them (the most difficult to implement but the most interesting one).
  • Through a special skill or trait: Skill or trait will raise the chance to get a better value during crafting (or lootdrop). I must be a Tier5 skill, so could form special crafting-characters into a fleet. Several subskills are possible, those will enhance certain properties (technical crafting, science crafting,...).
  • Level: The current character level controls even the chance to get a better value.
  • Profession: A tactical could craft more successfully weapons then a scientist. Or an engineer consoles,... You could also realize differences in the analyze of data samples (hopefully minigame), analyze will result into a construction plan or will reinforce the values.
  • Chance/Random: Must be a part, especially it is loot. Poorer crafting results should also be possible.

I know all those points will result in to itemfarming, who cares if it hold players??


Time and cost component:
How does the whole thing now?

We have collected a certain number of items, go to the relevant officer and exchange the items for a new one... sorry that’s boring.

Crafting literally translated means: Tinkering.
Collecting some items and exchange them, is tinkering? Not really. The principle of exchange something is quite ok, but there is no development process behind it. This is not a matter of seconds.

E.g.: You have a special weapon and all necessary data samples collected, you give it to the right officer and ask him to modify the weapon. The officer will inform you about the point where you can pick up your new modified weapon. That could be minutes or hours, a delay could appear,...

It makes it a little bit more realistic. In order to speed up the whole process, more resources would be needed. Which could be paid in credits or have to collected again. Everything in STO goes too quick, to install a new weapon into your starship takes normally weeks...

I hear already the howling pack, sorry guys you can't get everytime the best in seconds!


Involved bridge officers:
How often do you see it in the series, "Scotty, Geordi, O'Brien, B'Elanna, Trip modify this or create that..."
It should be possible to involve your officers into the crafting process (time component not so noticeable).

I hear it several times: "That’s not captain’s job!"

Ok you right, then let the bridge officers do the work, but think about it, each captain has special abilities. I'm sure O'Brien as captain will run everytime into the engineering room when something goes wrong.

The officers could do short-term-jobs or modifications, repairing damaged systems of the ship (or repair items). This would of course take longer, if a spacestation would care about that (officer is busy and need time but station is expensive).


Mini Games:
Minigames could involve the player himself into the crafting process, "Live-Crafting".
Use a minigame to do the crafting-job of putting the items together. Your playing ability will result into the final item. But you could also analyze data samples (already announced?) with minigames.

An alien artifact, what it does, how it is? No one has a clue. An analysis could determine that this artifact contains a kind of energy signature, never seen before. This new knowledge could be combinated with a Tetryon rifle type XX and would be crucial increasing their efficiency.

Variants of mini games:
  • The crafting-process (assembly of components, more precisely or faster, more better is the result),
  • Preliminary analysis of the components
  • Optimization of the components... there are a lot of varieties.


Disassembly:
A very interesting idea, the disassembly of items.
You should be able to dismantle any technical item.
A hand phaser is made of metal, cables, power cell,...

Imagine following scenario:

You're with your away team on a planet and you fighting with some Cardassians. After your victory you will grab their rifles (as loot).
What do you do with it? Use it by your own? Sell it?
But it is low-level TRIBBLE and not even green, so you will sell. But that's not even worth the effort and unnecessarily fills your inventory, so you finally let it lie or sell it quickly in the replicator.

But what would be if the gun could still use a different and more rewarding way?

In the form of individual parts. You as engineer, your engineering bridge officer, an engineer-fleetmate or a NPC on Memory Alpha could now split the rifle into its component parts. The replicator could also be a help.

The components like data samples, commodities or the new one, materials (ore, plastic, energy wires,...) can now also sell or store for later use. These materials can now be converted with different pre-defined construction plans (data samples) into new objects. The plans could be standard federation stuff or unknown alien plans (out of an alien artifact).


Storage:
What are Data Samples?
A scan of different objects, these scans are not stacked into a storage bin, scans are bits and bytes which have to be stored into a database, the ship database.
These scans can now be used either as part of a new crafting item, by further analysis (minigame), the chance of good values is increased (modificate an existing object).
On the other hand it can be a construction plan/recipe for a new craftable object. It could also be used as a programming-routine for the replicator.

Commodities and materials should not be stored into the normal inventory. But rather hold into a cargo container, much more storespace with those containers available (depends on the cargo bay of your ship).


Other issues:
  • Unknown Loot: Another factor are unknown loots, which have to be analyzed before you can use or disassemble them.
  • Kits: Personalized kits should use negotiated buffs. But they have to be really expensive (credits, resources, time,...).
  • Replicator: Five (one for ld.; two for lt. com,…) slots for arbitrary objects of your choice, the replicator in the series will also be adjusted continuously be new programs. Scanning an existing item to analyze the structure. (Excessive energy cost -> impact on market!!)
  • Additional abilities/tuning: For example a weapon has now three abilities, why not have four or five? Additional Gunsight (seen ENT -> MACO), burned out energy cell (strong shot but switch for next shot), strong rifle butt (modified casing, but chance to breach),...
  • Special design: Influence the size or color of an item during the crafting process
  • Repair: Items could be destroyed (could happen also during crafting), damaged or will frayed during normal use
  • Extraction: Extraction of several raw materials, special ships,... complete new type of missions and profession
  • Subprofession: Tactical -> Melee, Long-range, Weaponspecialist,... Engineering -> Technical crafting, Ship tuning,... Science -> Science crafting (analyze), debuffing, medic,... or special own crafterprofession.
  • Shiptuning: Real expensive in time and resources (ship must stay for days (real-time) into the dock) for an additional officer-slot,...

We don’t want a 2nd-Life-Star Trek-Version, but we want a better, more realistic and much more interesting crafting system. Take the series as a pattern for it; there is a lot of information out there.

So I'm looking forward to all your comments, additions and other ideas on the subject of crafting in that awesome game, Star Trek Online.


greetz Xaben
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Nice post, and nice points you bring up! I believe the crafting system is better than the one we had at launch, but still very miminal. Its still an anomalie gather fest and vendor purchase system. You dont really make anything.

    I dont really have any game breaking awesome ideas, but I can say that the system does need more improvement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Those are some good ideas, imagine taking part of your Hand Phaser Pistol, and coupling that into the section of the Rifle you grabbed and coming up with a more powerful weapon between the two items.

    Even install a machine shop in your star ship. Then assign two Engineers, to do the physical work, a Tactical Officer to offer suggestion on Weps development, and a Science Officer to affect theory developments. possibilities are limitless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    In addition to this, the ability to craft non-combat items as well as the ability to use those items to display in various areas of your ship. Also, I'd like to be able to craft clothing for myself, BO's and others for when I'm off duty. This could be added without changing any actual combat mechanics of the game.

    Some players want to be involved with the process of crafting and not just grinding for the sake of grinding to get the gear they need to "trade" for the next tier of item that's useless anyway.

    As it is, the game is 98% combat oriented. I'd like something more compelling than just the pew-pew style of game play. For now, MA is a trading post, not a crafting station.

    Maybe even be able to assign BO's in your inventory waiting to join you. Instead of using the extra BO's to man your ship slots, they fill ship crafting slots. Interchanging BO's gives advantages to particular types of crafting (engineering/tactical/science).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Wish i could make something :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    They ought to let us craft kits with other skill combinations. Most of the kits now have one or two things people want, and then one or two they don't use as much, if at all. Letting us craft the kits we want would give crafting a game-changing aspect.

    They could still restrict certain combinations or just make them really costly if they'd be overpowered. Or reserve those combinations as STF boss rewards.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    This is one of by now over three dozen different ideas on how to revamp and improve crafting.

    Add it to the list.

    When the devs (ever) swing their schedule back around to memory alpha tweaks (and so far, that's not looking like it will happen this summer or this autumn), then let's revisit these exciting, bold and creative ideas?

    Right now, we should be bracing ourselves for bugs/issues with ship interiors. And levels 45 to 51. And stuff like that. Which will most likely add even more work the schedule once we find those bugs.

    :(

    Cool ideas. Just, the timing might mean it'll be a long wait until they're actually addressed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    Cool ideas. Just, the timing might mean it'll be a long wait until they're actually addressed.
    thanks, but timing is irrelavant for a mmo... :) we will see...


    GlobalTaxi wrote: »
    In addition to this, the ability to craft non-combat items as well as the ability to use those items to display in various areas of your ship. Also, I'd like to be able to craft clothing for myself, BO's and others for when I'm off duty. This could be added without changing any actual combat mechanics of the game.

    Some players want to be involved with the process of crafting and not just grinding for the sake of grinding to get the gear they need to "trade" for the next tier of item that's useless anyway.

    As it is, the game is 98% combat oriented. I'd like something more compelling than just the pew-pew style of game play. For now, MA is a trading post, not a crafting station.

    Maybe even be able to assign BO's in your inventory waiting to join you. Instead of using the extra BO's to man your ship slots, they fill ship crafting slots. Interchanging BO's gives advantages to particular types of crafting (engineering/tactical/science).
    Great idea, i would love to craft my own costumes, trophies, instruments, badges,... huge amount of possibilites... combinated with ugc :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Xaben wrote: »
    thanks, but timing is irrelavant for a mmo... :) we will see...

    True. It's just ... you put a lot of creativity into your idea. And I'm an illustrator by trade. And occasionally (well, frequently, lol) there are situations where I put a lot of creativity into my work. And don't see it pay off for six months or longer.

    It can be frustrating.

    So I just wanted to say that your post was very creative. Recognize it for its awesomeness, but also prep you for the chance that memory alpha tweaks might be at the bottom of the dev team's already pretty large to do list. I could be wrong. The very next engineering report could come right out and say that they are right back on top and memory alpha is getting the business by August.

    But so far, it seems since the first tweak to MA back in 1.1 I think? That they've been given other things to focus on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    superchum wrote: »
    True. It's just ... you put a lot of creativity into your idea. And I'm an illustrator by trade. And occasionally (well, frequently, lol) there are situations where I put a lot of creativity into my work. And don't see it pay off for six months or longer.

    It can be frustrating.

    So I just wanted to say that your post was very creative. Recognize it for its awesomeness, but also prep you for the chance that memory alpha tweaks might be at the bottom of the dev team's already pretty large to do list. I could be wrong. The very next engineering report could come right out and say that they are right back on top and memory alpha is getting the business by August.

    But so far, it seems since the first tweak to MA back in 1.1 I think? That they've been given other things to focus on.

    I think they'll need all the time they can get if they plan on introducing any of these ideas into the game. People have been wanting a good crafting system since beta and there isn't one. Granted, Klingons need more PvE content but we have a good combat system and missions to boot with more on the way. If we had something other than combat, we may not reach cap lvl in a week, therefore not needing new Episodes every week.

    Why not spend a little extra time on the other aspects of MMO's. Is there even a team working on other aspects of the game besides c-store items, combat and ship interiors?

    I can see it even being introduced as an expansion considering any crafting system worth adding would have to be far more advanced and hopefully more in depth than what we currently have.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    1. Some parts of my ideas are hard and difficult to implement, some aren't. E.g.: Random loot/craft properties, its not so difficult to realize, but the impact on the entire system and motivation is huge.

    2. Im a lifetimer, I've time to wait on a "perfect" crafting system. But Cryptic will do it step by step, I think so.

    But thanks for your warnings :)

    My major issue, is to be heared from the devs, putting some of the ideas on their notepad for potential future implementation... thats all. I don't want any statement, that they realize it for sure. And the second issue, I want that the community keep talking about the insufficient crafting system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Very nice post, very thorough. Let's try and keep it on the front page!

    Personally, I love the idea of having crafting tracks that cover all 9 professions in the game, with you getting a bonus for the one you fit the most (from skillpoints)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Very nice post, very thorough. Let's try and keep it on the front page!

    Personally, I love the idea of having crafting tracks that cover all 9 professions in the game, with you getting a bonus for the one you fit the most (from skillpoints)

    Maybe the Dev's could sticky this to the Organized Approach to Feedback Thread?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    GlobalTaxi wrote: »
    In addition to this, the ability to craft non-combat items as well as the ability to use those items to display in various areas of your ship. Also, I'd like to be able to craft clothing for myself, BO's and others for when I'm off duty. This could be added without changing any actual combat mechanics of the game.

    Unfortunately, that niche is pretty much the declared realm of the C-store at this point. There hasn't even been a murmur of new off-duty clothing except for the stuff coming to the C-store.

    I really like your ideas though. Especially that one, as I actually miss clothes-shopping in Galaxies a lot. But in general what you describe is just a vastly more... alive system than currently exists in game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Unfortunately, that niche is pretty much the declared realm of the C-store at this point. There hasn't even been a murmur of new off-duty clothing except for the stuff coming to the C-store.

    I really like your ideas though. Especially that one, as I actually miss clothes-shopping in Galaxies a lot. But in general what you describe is just a vastly more... alive system than currently exists in game.

    Yeah. This is my ultimate fear but the hope is, they'll use the c-store for unique items that can't be crafted. It's obvious people want what the c-store offers but they don't have to limit every cosmetic item to it.

    As it stands, the "crafting system" isn't a crafting system. It's simply another form of credits traded for an upgrade. No crafting required. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Xaben wrote: »
    My major issue, is to be heared from the devs, putting some of the ideas on their notepad for potential future implementation... thats all. I don't want any statement, that they realize it for sure. And the second issue, I want that the community keep talking about the insufficient crafting system.

    The best way to achieve that is to do like Omega Hunter 9 suggests, and keep it on the front page. Consider this response yet another "bump" for your cause.

    ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    we will see :)

    The C-Store has to offer only cosmetic items, not more. The Galaxy-X is the limit (maybe beyond).

    But please back to the crafting topic :)
    What do you think about that loot-table issue? Do you believe its better as it is? No stupid Itemhunting? Or its better you can get your "ruler-weapon"... <- Nothing directly to do with crafting... but in further consequences...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hello Xaben



    A very good idea.

    Is exactly what I want :cool:

    Hopefully, it read the right people :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Very good post by the OP.

    But I would also like to see the ability to craft Consoles added to what we have now.

    Plus add in a Random Generator on what Data samples and amount needed to craft an item. As it is now the base Common item price has skyrocketed, along with the Anomolous Data samples to make the items.

    Cyptic should add a Master crafter section to what they have now once you complete all Advanced crafting sections. Where you can craft items to Very Rare and also de-craft them back to basic items from Bound items you have. Maybe also be able to Craft Antiproton and Tricobalt type weapons (by addding 2 base item types into the mix), for uncommon or rare grade.

    Will leave it at this point for any more suggestions that should be added to Crafting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    They will add the diplomatic corps... and craig already talked about a technical corps will follow up... there they could implement additionally special crafting or extraction missions...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Qoute not possible..too many charakters :)...ive comment the the first post of Xaben :)

    Wow, i am very impressed, til read this post. Godd ideas. I must confess that it is too much to comment about it individually. But they all formidable. Your ideas show a direction, which I like very much.

    Because i miss the, thats my Crew and my Ship, feeling. Like Silent Hunter III. There is a lack of identification with the crew. This point can not simply absent in STO. Currently it is like Command and Conquer. When it blows up..never mind.

    I hop the devs read this post and think....GODLIKE. Let get us to work :D

    Best regards
    Rhys Redwater
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    the identification with your crew... could never been realized as you feel it in the series...but stupid running and passable fighting isn't the way. cryptic have to integrate them, hopefully they will realize in season 2 the first step of it...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    i push it a lil bit :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hi


    Would be nice if you could implement the ideas of the article writer


    W
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I have another question to you Xaben.

    What do you think about the raw material removal in space.

    There are plenty on some maps Astoroide.

    Why some might not contain Astoroide ores.

    Ores that could be use for crafting.

    As a supplement to your proposal.


    Sigaro




    Ich hab da noch eine Frage an dich Xaben

    Was h
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Really nice ideas. I like them. I hope they inspire Cryptics developement :).

    MfG Michael
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I don't really see crafting as a 'Trek' kind of thing. I don't remember a lot of it in the shows or movies. Occasionally a character would do something temporary to solve an immediate problem - but this is already reflected in BO and captain powers.

    The image of Pickard whittling a custom science console for the bridge or Riker in a spacesuit constructing a new gun on the outside of the enterprise is just silly to me.

    Not all MMOs require crafting.

    Of course, this is just an opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Democratus wrote: »
    I don't really see crafting as a 'Trek' kind of thing. I don't remember a lot of it in the shows or movies. ......

    isn't that was Geordie was ALWAYS doing ?

    when you say McCoy in his hidey-hole too....wasn't he fiddling with some concoction (besides offering Kirk drinks...) or contraptions ?

    Data is ALWAYS doing some sort of research project....

    Werent Tucker and Reed ALWAYS fiddling to make some new kind of gadget or torpedo ?

    Wesley always had some.........."SHUT UP WESLEY !!!"


    anyway.... I noticed a lot of it..... theres more .... but I cant think of em at the moment
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    isn't that was Geordie was ALWAYS doing ?

    He was doing his job, keeping the ship running and its systems at optimal performance. That's not the same thing as gathering TRIBBLE from around the galaxy and building a disruptor bank (which shouldn't be mountable on a starfleet-owned vessel anyway).
    when you say McCoy in his hidey-hole too....wasn't he fiddling with some concoction (besides offering Kirk drinks...) or contraptions ?

    He was studying medicine and treating patients, as was his job description. I can't remember an episode of TOS where McCoy comes out and says, "Hey, Jim, I just built a new deflector dish for the ship."
    Data is ALWAYS doing some sort of research project....

    He had a lot of hobbies: painting, violin, programming, cat care, etc. But he didn't sculpt a new non-standard photon topredo launcher and mount it on the Enterprise.
    Wesley always had some.........."SHUT UP WESLEY !!!"

    Hehe! Funny thing is...I almost discussed Wesley in my post above. He was the only example of a crafter I could find - and he was the most annoying character in the crew. I do not want to play Wesley Crusher: Online. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Democratus wrote: »
    I don't really see crafting as a 'Trek' kind of thing. I don't remember a lot of it in the shows or movies.

    Right. And those spaceships were always there as were the stations, the personal equipment, the laboratories... All of it was always already there. Give me a break.

    The only thing I find unTrek like in crafting is the idea that captains have the time to do it. Sure, I can see them tinker but it was always someone other than a captain that was doing the real creation. further more it was people not on ships doing that creation. People on ships mostly refined the designs.

    A more Trek approach would be having dedicated crafting classes doing crafting and creation and ship captains doing tinkering like stuff, item enhancement, as they do at MA.

    Give us our noncombat crafting classes, please. That would be Trek crafting :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Ayenn wrote:
    Right. And those spaceships were always there as were the stations, the personal equipment, the laboratories... All of it was always already there. Give me a break.

    Full-scale manufacture is not "crafting". :rolleyes:

    Now we could talk about going whole hog and following the EVE route with player-owned refineries and construction facilities. But that is even less Trek, not more.

    This game is about the officers on board the ships of Starfleet and the IKN. Sure I'd be interested in "Utopia Planitia: The Building Game". But this game isn't it, nor should it be in my opinion.
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