I was thinking, it was never officially explained whatever happened to V'Ger in a cannon frame and we all assume that the thing ended up becoming what we know as the Borg today, but what if it actually returned in a different way? I'm sure the Borg are not the only cybernetically enhanced race in the galaxy so it might be interesting if either V'Ger or another ship from the machine planet decided to send another vessel to see what happened to it.
I enjoyed The Motion Picture and watched it recently and I'm kind of curious if there could be some mission related to V'Ger or it's home planet in the works. I wouldn't mind some kind of closure on the issue.
...and we all assume that the thing ended up becoming what we know as the Borg today...
Nope. If you watch Star Trek: First Contact (set in 2063), the Borg are in the Delta Quadrant at that time: one of the officers said so. Also, the 24th Century Borg were attempting to contact the 21st Century Borg using the Enterprise-E's Deflector, so that's more evidence.
But, yes, I think it would be nice to have that mission.
Actually we don't "all" assume V'Ger ended up becoming the Borg, far from it. Since the Borg were known to have existed as far back as eight hundred years ago in the Delta Quandrant. As stated in the Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth" by the Vaadwaur, they'd only assimilated a handful of species back then.
Well as I recall I think that V'ger's 'people' were actually machine intelligences rather than cybernetically enhanced beings....now there is a thought. The Borg Vs what would amount to being their 'gods.' Also nothing says we couldn't run into the Decker-unit in a mission *hint hint*
Don't forget there's also the "transcendent V'Ger" that was formed after Captain Decker merged with the probe. That could make an appearance too.
There are a lot of interesting loose ends out there that would be neat to see come back in STO. V'Ger is a great example. I'd also be interested in seeing:
Whale Probe from Star Trek IV
Alien parasites from TNG "Conspiracy"
Organians from TOS "Errand of Mercy"
Trelaine from TOS "Squire of Gothos"
The Traveler from TNG "Where No Man has Gone Before"
Moriarty from TNG "Ship in a Bottle"
Captain Sisko after his time with the Prophets
And I'm sure there are a ton other ideas out there.
Who is to say that the alien parasites weren't merely an organic weapon used by the Undine sent back to cause disruption And I almost posted about the Organians, but I figured I wouldn't hijack another thread today with offish topic things
As shown in Star Trek Legacy, I believe, the Borg were created by V'Ger (or at least the species that made Voyager 6 into V'Ger) long before the events of the first motion picture.
V'Ger itself has risen to something like divinity, but the legacy of the Borg remain. It'd be cool to face V'Ger like vessels belonging to that race that made V'Ger... or better yet, the guys that made V'Ger themselves. Maybe they look similar and have the same awesome theme music.
Yeah, but the whole discontinuity is that the Borg have existed well before Voyager 6 was even launched. -ST:VGR "Dragon's Teeth" It seems unrealistic, even for Star Trek standards for the thing to hit a time warp twice only to found the creation of a race hell bent on Perfecting the Galaxy. V'Ger, for all intents and purposes was simply learning all that can be learned, not make everything perfect. When it merged with Captain Dekker, a Starfleet officer who believed in peaceful coexistence, you wouldn't think the result would be anything malicious. You actually never see what the end result was. Maybe something like Gomtuu (The Tin Man) can be a partial speculation in itself.
But in all honesty, I would doubt that two beings with common peaceful scientific goals would become something so twisted but I supose all of that time something can go wrong, but in all likelyhood, I think it's the general assumtion that ends up being wrong when we eventually encounter "V'Gekker" again.
...we all assume that the thing ended up becoming what we know as the Borg today...
I make no such assumption.
V'ger was clearly more advanced than any Borg we've seen. It's power level was several orders of magnitude greater, and it demonstrated capabilities far beyond anything the Borg have pulled off.
Just looking at the technological differences, the Borg rely on biological components while V'gar was entirely mechanical.
A lot of that is the realm of 'soft-canon'.
In the books, it was the Borg that modified V'ger to finish its mission (I might be mis-remembering)
In the books, the Doomsday Machine was a protoype weapon to fight the Borg... the finished product heading to Borg Space at near warp 10.
Definitely some room to play with should Cryptic decide to go there.
Since we're wishing... The big bad from Prime Directive would be interesting.
Yeah, but the whole discontinuity is that the Borg have existed well before Voyager 6 was even launched. -ST:VGR "Dragon's Teeth" It seems unrealistic, even for Star Trek standards for the thing to hit a time warp twice only to found the creation of a race hell bent on Perfecting the Galaxy. V'Ger, for all intents and purposes was simply learning all that can be learned, not make everything perfect. When it merged with Captain Dekker, a Starfleet officer who believed in peaceful coexistence, you wouldn't think the result would be anything malicious. You actually never see what the end result was. Maybe something like Gomtuu (The Tin Man) can be a partial speculation in itself.
But in all honesty, I would doubt that two beings with common peaceful scientific goals would become something so twisted but I supose all of that time something can go wrong, but in all likelyhood, I think it's the general assumtion that ends up being wrong when we eventually encounter "V'Gekker" again.
My best guess is the race that made V'Ger (who for all we know can also be as large as starships in some forms) also made the Borg, not V'Ger itself. It's the best way to mesh together the contradictions.
Don't forget there's also the "transcendent V'Ger" that was formed after Captain Decker merged with the probe. That could make an appearance too.
There are a lot of interesting loose ends out there that would be neat to see come back in STO. V'Ger is a great example. I'd also be interested in seeing:
Whale Probe from Star Trek IV
Alien parasites from TNG "Conspiracy"
Organians from TOS "Errand of Mercy"
Trelaine from TOS "Squire of Gothos"
The Traveler from TNG "Where No Man has Gone Before"
Moriarty from TNG "Ship in a Bottle"
Captain Sisko after his time with the Prophets
And I'm sure there are a ton other ideas out there.
I would love to see all of that in the game, especially Trelane. He's one of my favorite characters in Trek.
Well....I am going to go way out and throw another idea out there. This could potentially tie in to V'Ger as....what if the so called 'Preservers' created V'ger as a means of carrying out their races work. It could have been a prototype or who knows what. Or there are of course a number of other possible scenarios as well.
I would love to see the origin of that ship V'ger used. I mean... That blasted thing was massive. Imagine what it took to create such a ship... I could go on and on since TMP was what got me hooked on ST.
Nope. If you watch Star Trek: First Contact (set in 2063), the Borg are in the Delta Quadrant at that time: one of the officers said so. Also, the 24th Century Borg were attempting to contact the 21st Century Borg using the Enterprise-E's Deflector, so that's more evidence.
But, yes, I think it would be nice to have that mission.
How ever it was spun I think the V''ger plot could use some closure somehow. Never was a fan of loose ends myself. I can quasi go along with the Borg assumption myself. Who knows how V'ger got to the machine planet... that wasn't explained... or even how the machine planet came to be... but it happened. So, the what happened after our two Enterprise crew members created a new life form is what has been plaguing interested fans I believe.
V'Ger originally came from Cybertron. Although there hasn't been any further mention to it in other trek works because Paramount and CBS were sued by Hasbro.
OF course, I now must come in and play devils advocate that we might not get what we want, because those who hold the rights have to potentially sign off on it.
V'ger was clearly more advanced than any Borg we've seen. It's power level was several orders of magnitude greater, and it demonstrated capabilities far beyond anything the Borg have pulled off.
Just looking at the technological differences, the Borg rely on biological components while V'gar was entirely mechanical.
Okay, bad choice of words on my part. I should have said, "one of the general assumptions" There, I feel better.
This is also why I disagree that they became the Borg, If it was, then Borg would all have large clouds of around 2AUs in diameter wherever they traveled and the big point is they, the machine planet and Voyager6, thought of carbon based units as infections, not as something to incorporate or preserve outside of a holographic memory.
So it would be interesting to run into a V'Ger race ship after a few hundred years and see how the race has progressed. Of course, there was a contradiction in the movie. It was said V'Ger's databank contained entire Galaxies as information. If that is so, there is no way it could have originated from the Milky Way.
@Castmodean, I loved the "Vendetta" book. It is still one of my favorites. The people who created the Doomsday machine made another one to look for the old one. Picard and crew had to deal with this one as it had a living telepathic pilot with an Ahab mentality.
@Castmodean, I loved the "Vendetta" book. It is still one of my favorites. The people who created the Doomsday machine made another one to look for the old one. Picard and crew had to deal with this one as it had a living telepathic pilot with an Ahab mentality.
I don't speak about Vendetta kindly.....But this is because my copy of the book when I first bought it was a misprint that actually reprinted the middle 1/3 of the book where the last 1/3 of the books should have been. It was a story about achieving warp 10 and being at all points in space and time at once so I thought it was a literary conceit! That is until I got to the end and the book didn't end
I don't speak about Vendetta kindly.....But this is because my copy of the book when I first bought it was a misprint that actually reprinted the middle 1/3 of the book where the last 1/3 of the books should have been. It was a story about achieving warp 10 and being at all points in space and time at once so I thought it was a literary conceit! That is until I got to the end and the book didn't end
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Have you tried to look up a finished copy on Amazon?
Oh yeah I got to finish the book, I have always had a soft spot for Peter David books since then. hm thinking of we know that he has allowed at least one of his creations in since Calhoun is on K-7....He might allow other of his ideas to run free in the universe
Yeah but I was kind of disappointed that Calhoun was a desk jockey. He doesn't seem to be that type of person to sit by when he can be out there doing something of importance.
You know, every once and a while these threads pop up, and invariably you get a large number of people arguing that V'ger became the borg. And frankly, I am glad to see that this is not one of those threads, because that theor makes no sense, as has been explained myriad times in this thread already, so:
I don't think we need to see V'ger again, I though the conclusion to its story was well established. It had one of those open ended endings, that isn't so much an ending but a resolution to its problems.
In fact a lot of the mysterious aliens had good closure to their stories. I personally would love to see new mysterious/powerful entities with unique storylines in the same vein as V'Ger or the Whale Probe, or the Alien Parasites. Maybe even have them threatening something other than earth for a change, or if they wanted to go with earth, that would give good reason to use those maps of our solar system they have made.
Oh yeah I got to finish the book, I have always had a soft spot for Peter David books since then. hm thinking of we know that he has allowed at least one of his creations in since Calhoun is on K-7....He might allow other of his ideas to run free in the universe
I thought you wrote David Peters. My narcissism assumed you'd read my book.
You know, every once and a while these threads pop up, and invariably you get a large number of people arguing that V'ger became the borg. And frankly, I am glad to see that this is not one of those threads, because that theor makes no sense, as has been explained myriad times in this thread already, so:
I don't think we need to see V'ger again, I though the conclusion to its story was well established. It had one of those open ended endings, that isn't so much an ending but a resolution to its problems.
In fact a lot of the mysterious aliens had good closure to their stories. I personally would love to see new mysterious/powerful entities with unique storylines in the same vein as V'Ger or the Whale Probe, or the Alien Parasites. Maybe even have them threatening something other than earth for a change, or if they wanted to go with earth, that would give good reason to use those maps of our solar system they have made.
True, I don't really think we need to see V'Ger itself, per se, which is why I mentioned perhaps finding the home world under seige by the Borg and help them preserve their identity. Just something related which is why I mentioned other options, not just V'Ger itself. The possibilities are limitless on this.
Personally I prefer the Star Trek: Destiny answer to the Borg, although not canon the idea of the crew of the NX-02 Columbia and the Caeliar race combining.
I was thinking, it was never officially explained whatever happened to V'Ger in a cannon frame and we all assume that the thing ended up becoming what we know as the Borg today, but what if it actually returned in a different way? I'm sure the Borg are not the only cybernetically enhanced race in the galaxy so it might be interesting if either V'Ger or another ship from the machine planet decided to send another vessel to see what happened to it.
I enjoyed The Motion Picture and watched it recently and I'm kind of curious if there could be some mission related to V'Ger or it's home planet in the works. I wouldn't mind some kind of closure on the issue.
who in the world assumes that v'ger became the borg... that is not only silly, but totally unfounded based on what was shown, explained, and hinted at in the movies, as well as the show.
If they decide to go there, I will cease playing immediately - though I hope CBS isn't that silly to approve a plot device like that... for a MMOs sake.
Vgers 'home' planet was a world of 'living' machines (like transformers - woo to reusing ideas), the borg were expressly shown to have been human and over the ages integrated machines to be a part of them and their species... enhanced cyborgs vs living machines that are... machines.
As shown in Star Trek Legacy, I believe, the Borg were created by V'Ger (or at least the species that made Voyager 6 into V'Ger) long before the events of the first motion picture.
You need to re-read that book. That is most certainly NOT how the book suggested the BORG were created. I won't go into detail since books are NOT considered canon.
Comments
Nope. If you watch Star Trek: First Contact (set in 2063), the Borg are in the Delta Quadrant at that time: one of the officers said so. Also, the 24th Century Borg were attempting to contact the 21st Century Borg using the Enterprise-E's Deflector, so that's more evidence.
But, yes, I think it would be nice to have that mission.
There are a lot of interesting loose ends out there that would be neat to see come back in STO. V'Ger is a great example. I'd also be interested in seeing:
And I'm sure there are a ton other ideas out there.
V'Ger itself has risen to something like divinity, but the legacy of the Borg remain. It'd be cool to face V'Ger like vessels belonging to that race that made V'Ger... or better yet, the guys that made V'Ger themselves. Maybe they look similar and have the same awesome theme music.
But in all honesty, I would doubt that two beings with common peaceful scientific goals would become something so twisted but I supose all of that time something can go wrong, but in all likelyhood, I think it's the general assumtion that ends up being wrong when we eventually encounter "V'Gekker" again.
I make no such assumption.
V'ger was clearly more advanced than any Borg we've seen. It's power level was several orders of magnitude greater, and it demonstrated capabilities far beyond anything the Borg have pulled off.
Just looking at the technological differences, the Borg rely on biological components while V'gar was entirely mechanical.
In the books, it was the Borg that modified V'ger to finish its mission (I might be mis-remembering)
In the books, the Doomsday Machine was a protoype weapon to fight the Borg... the finished product heading to Borg Space at near warp 10.
Definitely some room to play with should Cryptic decide to go there.
Since we're wishing... The big bad from Prime Directive would be interesting.
My best guess is the race that made V'Ger (who for all we know can also be as large as starships in some forms) also made the Borg, not V'Ger itself. It's the best way to mesh together the contradictions.
I would love to see all of that in the game, especially Trelane. He's one of my favorite characters in Trek.
time travel = booo :O
Okay, bad choice of words on my part. I should have said, "one of the general assumptions" There, I feel better.
This is also why I disagree that they became the Borg, If it was, then Borg would all have large clouds of around 2AUs in diameter wherever they traveled and the big point is they, the machine planet and Voyager6, thought of carbon based units as infections, not as something to incorporate or preserve outside of a holographic memory.
So it would be interesting to run into a V'Ger race ship after a few hundred years and see how the race has progressed. Of course, there was a contradiction in the movie. It was said V'Ger's databank contained entire Galaxies as information. If that is so, there is no way it could have originated from the Milky Way.
@Castmodean, I loved the "Vendetta" book. It is still one of my favorites. The people who created the Doomsday machine made another one to look for the old one. Picard and crew had to deal with this one as it had a living telepathic pilot with an Ahab mentality.
I don't speak about Vendetta kindly.....But this is because my copy of the book when I first bought it was a misprint that actually reprinted the middle 1/3 of the book where the last 1/3 of the books should have been. It was a story about achieving warp 10 and being at all points in space and time at once so I thought it was a literary conceit! That is until I got to the end and the book didn't end
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Have you tried to look up a finished copy on Amazon?
@Ruivo, I have to sig that. That made me laugh.
I don't think we need to see V'ger again, I though the conclusion to its story was well established. It had one of those open ended endings, that isn't so much an ending but a resolution to its problems.
In fact a lot of the mysterious aliens had good closure to their stories. I personally would love to see new mysterious/powerful entities with unique storylines in the same vein as V'Ger or the Whale Probe, or the Alien Parasites. Maybe even have them threatening something other than earth for a change, or if they wanted to go with earth, that would give good reason to use those maps of our solar system they have made.
True, I don't really think we need to see V'Ger itself, per se, which is why I mentioned perhaps finding the home world under seige by the Borg and help them preserve their identity. Just something related which is why I mentioned other options, not just V'Ger itself. The possibilities are limitless on this.
who in the world assumes that v'ger became the borg... that is not only silly, but totally unfounded based on what was shown, explained, and hinted at in the movies, as well as the show.
If they decide to go there, I will cease playing immediately - though I hope CBS isn't that silly to approve a plot device like that... for a MMOs sake.
Vgers 'home' planet was a world of 'living' machines (like transformers - woo to reusing ideas), the borg were expressly shown to have been human and over the ages integrated machines to be a part of them and their species... enhanced cyborgs vs living machines that are... machines.
You need to re-read that book. That is most certainly NOT how the book suggested the BORG were created. I won't go into detail since books are NOT considered canon.