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Endless Capture and Hold Games

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Every time the pvp daily requires me to do Capture and Hold, I wince. The Assault queue never seems to pop, so I only have one option, and if you're even remotely evenly matched with your opponents, each of the three games can seem to drag on forever. I know a lot of other folks feel the same way. So, suggestion:

As soon as the match starts, both sides' influence begins to very slowly count down on its own, and the opponent's is then sped up as you take objectives. This would preserve pretty much everything fun and strategic about the game play, while also allowing Cryptic to set a time limit at which the match would end one way or the other. I'd suggest 10-12 minutes, personally, but definitely not more than 20.

Thoughts?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Kids these days so impatient.....

    Anyways I like when a cap and hold goes long is usually means you have good opponents. Also in reality I doubt there are very many that go beyond 20-30 mins anyways, so your proposal seems kinda pointless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Long games are often the most fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Thoughts?

    1 is less than 2. 2 is less than 3.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Every time the pvp daily requires me to do Capture and Hold, I wince. The Assault queue never seems to pop, so I only have one option, and if you're even remotely evenly matched with your opponents, each of the three games can seem to drag on forever. I know a lot of other folks feel the same way. So, suggestion:

    If people would stop using the strategy of "run around alone and never engage in battle, just unlock flags and skidaddle" this wouldn't be such a problem.

    /
    As soon as the match starts, both sides' influence begins to very slowly count down on its own, and the opponent's is then sped up as you take objectives. This would preserve pretty much everything fun and strategic about the game play, while also allowing Cryptic to set a time limit at which the match would end one way or the other. I'd suggest 10-12 minutes, personally, but definitely not more than 20.

    Thoughts?

    Nah, because then you'd have herds of feds who spawn in and just sit there waiting for their free points, while the klingons rush around to cap flags and get the map done so they can move on to a worthy opponent, and after about four days of that klingons would stop using that map entirely and feds would still just zone in and sit there. This won't work. Setting a time limit is a good idea, and somehow punishing people who do *NOTHING* all match is also a good idea. And giving bonus points to people who are on teams on that map together... is also a good idea, because then feds will team up for the bonus points and have peer pressure to get them to do ANYTHING.
    Manannan wrote:
    Kids these days so impatient.....

    Anyways I like when a cap and hold goes long is usually means you have good opponents. Also in reality I doubt there are very many that go beyond 20-30 mins anyways, so your proposal seems kinda pointless.

    I think the correct term is "shockingly profoundly lazy"

    Actually most matches run 35-45 minutes at tier 5, and frequently go over an hour, and sometimes go almost two hours. The problem with that is that you can get the same rewards in five minutes by doing just about anything else, and the rewards for a PvP match are not scalable to the amount of effort required to obtain them. If a secondary dynamic were involved beyond just the flags, like perhaps a flag-specific 'held longest' timer that keeps track of which flags were contested and which ones were not, as relates to various rewards from the end of mission bonus, and somehow alters the dynamics of having multiple flags so that individual player agendas to gain a certain kind of points bonus or a certain kind of crafting component for the winning team (anomaly junk, like a stack of gas samples from the cloud flag, or a stack of mineral samples from the astrogeo flag, or batteries from the shipyard, or something... along with a bonus to BO training points for holding the station longest, or a bonus to money for holding the shipyard longest, or whatever) and ONLY the winning team, and ONLY if that specific flag was held longest... this would invite a certain level of complexity and personal investment that MIGHT cause people to identify the strategic patterns inherent in that kind of map, and allow people who otherwise need a ring in their nose and a guiderope to know what direction they're going... to be able to see a reason to do something besides sit and whine about not wanting to attack the "vastly superior" enemies (that are actually balanced quite well).
    Dekkameron wrote: »
    Long games are often the most fun.

    Depends on the length. Even a really fun match is super lame if I have had to pee for an hour, and can't, because I have to go chase down the flag-flipper and tractor him and chase him again and tractor him again and chase hmi again and then finally kill him because all of his engineering slots are geared for making him go real fast so he can slow the match down really really really slow to try and make his 6-cruiser fedball have a chance at winning by just slowly rolling back and forth through the middle of the map while nobody can possibly ever kill them. That's friggin boring, and that's how games get looooooooong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Manannan wrote:
    Kids these days so impatient.....

    Anyways I like when a cap and hold goes long is usually means you have good opponents. Also in reality I doubt there are very many that go beyond 20-30 mins anyways, so your proposal seems kinda pointless.

    I'm probably older than you, for the record, and 20-30 minutes is a quick game in there in my experience. I've had several games go over an hour. My exploration daily takes ~45 minutes every day. My pvp daily takes under an hour...unless its capture and hold, then I'm looking at 2-3 hours minimum.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I just wish there were some way to make the "Capture" part more engaging. Simply flying to a certain proximity of the marker and then just waiting... and waiting... and waiting... well, it gets pretty dull pretty quick. This is especially when there are others who just ignore the flags and just fight. While I admit the fighting part is fun, it doesn't challenge people strategically.

    I just think the game could benefit if players are more actively involved.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I still don't understand why they don't do it in STO, but in Champs, the longer matches give out more acclaim and experience. Yet in STO you get a flat reward regardless of how long it took.

    I know RA5s wouldn't care much, but for lower levels its certainly worthwhile to have the rewards scale with time.

    They could stand to lower the win requirements on all matches, though. Ground should never have stayed at 40 kills, yet its still there. And with the changes to the space game, why not set the salvage map to 1000 points instead of 1200?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I wouldn't mind if the rewards scaled, but they seem to be capped at a certain point.

    Otherwise, why not just add a 20 minute timer, and whoever has the most points at the end of the timer wins (if the game doesn't end prior).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I typically enjoy the Cap and Hold matches I've joined but I won't queue myself up unless I know I have the time to spend there. It can be a fun change of pace from the quick 15 kill and repeat and a lot of times you'll run into people or moves that are surprising.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    People don't understand how cap & hold works, and they just like to get into big furballs, which makes it drag forever.

    But still better than Assault...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm probably older than you, for the record, and 20-30 minutes is a quick game in there in my experience. I've had several games go over an hour. My exploration daily takes ~45 minutes every day. My pvp daily takes under an hour...unless its capture and hold, then I'm looking at 2-3 hours minimum.

    Ok then freaking baby boomers and their sense of entitlement.

    Seriously though in my experience 20-30 minutes is average to long, I dont think ive been in more than a handful of cap and hold games that have gone beyond it (and they have been among my fav games). I realize we arent going to be able to convince each other as to what the average length is but the devs must know and I imagine that if your experience of 3 hours to do 3 cap and holds was really typical they would feel the need to change it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Manannan wrote:
    I realize we arent going to be able to convince each other as to what the average length is but the devs must know and I imagine that if your experience of 3 hours to do 3 cap and holds was really typical they would feel the need to change it.

    Sure, but people in game have commented on having an experience similar to mine with it, which is part of what engendered my OP. And most of the posts on the thread have stated that they do tend to run long, or at least longer than other pvp battlegrounds. So the question seems more as to whether them being long is a good or bad thing, and if a bad thing, what should be done to fix it without removing the elements of gameplay that we enjoy in it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    wrote:
    Sure, but people in game have commented on having an experience similar to mine with it, which is part of what engendered my OP. And most of the posts on the thread have stated that they do tend to run long, or at least longer than other pvp battlegrounds. So the question seems more as to whether them being long is a good or bad thing, and if a bad thing, what should be done to fix it without removing the elements of gameplay that we enjoy in it.
    It never occured to me that I should protest loudly, but I definitely have not experienced matches lasting hours. Not ever so far.

    The only thing I spend an hour or more o was the damn Crystal Entity Fleet Action. Grr.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I think I only have encountered one cap'n hold that lasted for more than 45 minutes - and that was before 1.2. That was also the cap'n hold I remember, because it's the best match I've seen, from both sides. So all in all, cap'n hold are pretty much fast enough in my opinion, I'd rather have them longer actually.
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