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The most idiotic ability in PvP is...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2010 in PvP Gameplay
Ramming speed. I was killing people with that more than anything else and and am killed that way more often than anything else.

It does not need to be nerfed, it needs to be removed completely. The notion of ramming space ships is non-canon and utterly nonsensical. :mad:
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    Ramming speed. I now kill people with that more than anything else and amd killed that way too more oftewn than anything else.

    It does not need to be nerfed, it needs to be removed completely. The notion that ramming space ships is non-canon and utterly nonsensical. :mad:

    Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Nemesis, DS9: the episode with the Odyssey.

    It is most certainly canon
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    Ramming speed. I now kill people with that more than anything else and amd killed that way too more oftewn than anything else.

    It does not need to be nerfed, it needs to be removed completely. The notion that ramming space ships is non-canon and utterly nonsensical. :mad:

    Although i do agree that the skill is rather overused and should only be able to be activated once a ship has less than 25% hull.

    It is definitely canon as i seem to remember Picard ramming the Reman vessel in Star Trek Nemesis near the end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Nemesis, DS9: the episode with the Odyssey.

    It is most certainly canon

    Only if both ships blow up
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    Only if both ships blow up

    I think the ship that did the ram in First contact DID blow up.

    Btw, might i add that this thread isnt about YOU killing peeps a lot with ramming speed is it? Cmon be honest.. this is a barely concealed whine thread about how much you think it should be nerfed cos you die from it all the time.

    Cmon....

    Admit it.

    You'll feel better
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Dekkameron wrote: »
    I think the ship that did the ram in First contact DID blow up

    Fine, then make ramming speed mutually suicidal, not a tactic used in almost every match... frankly just get rid of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    faithborn wrote:
    Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Nemesis, DS9: the episode with the Odyssey.

    It is most certainly canon

    so someting that happened 3 times in what must be hundreds of shows is in and getting to shag hot alien chicks, which is soooo canon and happens almost every week is left out. Personally if i had to pick between them this game would have an 18+ rating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Personally i think the most idiotic ability is any "teams" that you use on yourself. Why oh why would you lose crew when they're not going anywhere? and to further that.. How does using tactical team upon yurself gain more crew?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ardept wrote: »
    so someting that happened 3 times in what must be hundreds of shows is in and getting to shag hot alien chicks, which is soooo canon and happens almost every week is left out. Personally if i had to pick between them this game would have an 18+ rating.

    I would still prefer to rip peoples' heads off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    "Future's End part II" of Voyager. Janeway proposes to ram the time ship to prevent it from entering the spatial anomoly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Surgery wrote:
    "Future's End part II" of Voyager. Janeway proposes to ram the time ship to prevent it from entering the spatial anomoly.

    Yep, it's this episode (one minute into the clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDc4i-MXWj0
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    When I think of Ramming Speed, I always think of the Babylon 5 Season 4 episode Endgame, where Sheridan needs to take out a weapons platform before it wipes out the eastern seaboard, and the only option is to do a suicide ramming speed into the platform to stop it.

    It's 34 and a half minutes into this: http://www.thewb.com/shows/babylon-5/endgame/ef0c79ba44

    Yeah, it ended up not happening, but still you can see from the acting that this was a last ditch, suicidal move. That's what I think of with Ramming Speed; you're not walking away from it if you ram someone.

    There was an earlier thread this week on ramming speed, and these were my suggestions on how to tweak it:


    1a) Ramming Speed drops all power levels but engines to 0. Thus making the target vulnerable to being shot down before the ram happens.
    1b) Resists drop to 0, and only brace for impact can add resists back.

    2) Raise the ramming timer to 5-10m vs the shorter one we got w/ 1.2

    3) Make it more reflective of relative mass (i.e. a bug hitting the windshield should splatter, not blow up the car and then fly away with a broken leg)

    4) Remove all maneuverabilty during the duration of the effect (you're locked into your current heading for the ram, so if the target moves, you miss)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Surgery wrote:
    "Future's End part II" of Voyager. Janeway proposes to ram the time ship to prevent it from entering the spatial anomoly.

    Great, so make ramming suicidal rather than a default tactic
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    Great, so make ramming suicidal rather than a default tactic

    Agreed.

    And also, ramming speed was used in the newest Star Trek....the Kelvin rammed the Romulan ship at the beginning.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ramming speed is very canon. As mentioned it has been used several times over the years.

    A way to make it a little more in line with how it is portrayed in the movies. Auto-suicide is stupid, did you not notice the list of rammers above? Still very alive. It should be crippling however, for you and your target, so I suggest that along with the damage, it disable 2 systems entirely of you and your target (each) at random for 10 seconds minimum. So if you do ram, you are going to be without something important for a little while

    Also.. with ALL this concern about Ramming why not install some tractor beams on your ship? Ramming speed is a 3m cooldown, tractor beam is what 30s?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    meh. ramming speed damage is modified by size and speed, so just hit them with a tractor beam, beam repel, photonic shockwave, or target their engines to either reduce/nullify the ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    In pvp once i had a fed sci ram my raptor as he was about to get killed, he didn't kill me but he took a good chunk of my hull away went from 70% to 20% , it was just enough for his fed teammates to finish me off. Most annoying.

    The only problem with ram is that if the ramming ship doesn't die and he kills the weaker ship he rammed then he is free to move as normal. After the ram impact it should disable the surviving ship completely and all systems should go offline for 20 seconds, then people would think twice about attack ramming.

    cloaked ram however that needs to stop though and implementing the above would help.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Vipermist wrote:
    cloaked ram however that needs to stop though and implementing the above would help.

    Perfectly viable tactic, although often hard to pull off (ooer)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I didn't even notice you could ram cloaked. even if it was intended.. unshielded ram should = death.
    Oh and an auto emote.. "4 teh 3mprir3!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ramming Speed getting some drawbacks I can see. Removing it not at all. It's not a standard battle tactic, but it is a battle tactic.

    Maybe the best solution is that it needs to ensure that you either kill both ships or you kill none. Barring that, I think a temporary (5 sec) disabling of shields and engines would be fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    It's not a standard battle tactic, but it is a battle tactic.

    It is indeed becoming a *standard* battle tactic. It is a rare pvp match now where I do not get rammed *at least* once and last night I encountered a Fed team who were 'pack ramming'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    RS should onl;y be an option at lower than 50% hull points.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Leave it the way it is but say add the old VM effect to both parties if they live and are under 20% hull after the ram.

    It makes sense that all systems would be borked after a ram on both sides and your ship is beat to heck. Being stunned for 15 sec after I think would make people think before using it and still not take away it's effectiveness. Also after a ram your crew must be knocked all over and would take time to get back their stations.

    Also for teams using this tactic chained it would add healing stress as they would have to heal sitting ducks for 15 sec.

    I don't think a nerf should be done but more penalties for doing it would be good. Make it more risky somehow is my thoughts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ramming Speed should automatically destroy the ship that triggers it, regardless of damage dealt to the opponent. It is meant to be a desperation / last-ditch tactic, not a battle strategy.

    That said, the overuse of Ramming Speed is just a symptom of the real problem, which is the near-impossibility of killing someone - especially a Cruiser - without it. There are so many shield and hull hardens, and RSP is on such a short cooldown, that finishing off an enemy ship without overwhelming firepower is extremely difficult. Ramming Speed is overused because it bypasses shields and lets you kill critically damaged ships where no other skill helps.

    Hardens are too strong. Resists are too high across the board when certain combinations of abilities (EP:Shields and RSF, for example) are active. Ships are hard to kill - and that's great - but right now I honestly think they're a little too hard to kill.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well ramming speed is usually suicidal for me in my BoP, so I wouldn’t mind if it was made fatal to both parties concerned.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ramming Speed should automatically destroy the ship that triggers it, regardless of damage dealt to the opponent. It is meant to be a desperation / last-ditch tactic, not a battle strategy.

    That said, the overuse of Ramming Speed is just a symptom of the real problem, which is the near-impossibility of killing someone - especially a Cruiser - without it. There are so many shield and hull hardens, and RSP is on such a short cooldown, that finishing off an enemy ship without overwhelming firepower is extremely difficult. Ramming Speed is overused because it bypasses shields and lets you kill critically damaged ships where no other skill helps.

    Hardens are too strong. Resists are too high across the board when certain combinations of abilities (EP:Shields and RSF, for example) are active. Ships are hard to kill - and that's great - but right now I honestly think they're a little too hard to kill.

    Yet I find teams I am in can take down cruisers just fine without ramming... it is a bit of work now... and that is fine too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    RS should onl;y be an option at lower than 50% hull points.


    That would probably work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ramming Speed should automatically destroy the ship that triggers it, regardless of damage dealt to the opponent. It is meant to be a desperation / last-ditch tactic, not a battle strategy.
    <snipped the rest I disagree with>

    This is part of the biggest issue I have with it. It isn't a last-ditch tactic in game, if anything it's used whenever it's available by other people (I hate it and refuse to use it unless a player constantly runs / quits when dying) and the 'pack' ramming of players mean that instead of a few seconds of concentrated fire from an escort it's now multiple ramming speed attacks.

    How I'd change it is similar to what a lot of others have suggested but with a little bit extra too. Make it *only* usable when your hull is at <25%, using it and hitting means your ship explodes and if you miss with the ram then you don't get to use it again until you die / respawn / start another PvP mission. Why make it so you can only ram once? It's a FINAL and DESPERATE act, to do as much damage to the enemy as possible when you know you're going to die. It isn't meant as a part of your standard battle strategy - fire phasers, torpedoes, then ram? No.... just no.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    evilhippo wrote: »
    Ramming speed. (edit)

    The notion of ramming space ships is non-canon and utterly nonsensical. :mad:

    All these "yes, it's canon" posts and no one mentions this specific scene and quote from which the ability gets its name?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llYKLJY2DuM

    Apparently, Worf had not unlocked the ability "brace for impact" yet:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFQgwMktT0
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Just throwing out another example of ramming used in canon that I've not seen mentioned.

    At the conclusion of "Best of Both Worlds" part 2, Riker gives the order to ram the Borg cube at warp speed moments before Data shuts the Borg down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Dyonas wrote: »
    It isn't meant as a part of your standard battle strategy - fire phasers, torpedoes, then ram? No.... just no.

    Indeed... so make it available only at 50% hull or lower and give it a 1 hour cool down then.
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