Although I like Ramming Speed, I feel it should be tweaked slightly. Cooldown and damage it does is fine, however the risk vs reward is slightly off. With a little bit of effort (mainly popping kinetic damage resist abilities before the ram) you can do obscene amounts of damage while receiving very little in return.
Suggestion one: Make the damage you suffer while ramming another ship an unmodifiable % based value of the total hull damage you do to the target ship, and make this splashback damage its own category so stuff like Brace for Impact will not help in negating the returned damage. So you ram something for 60.000 damage? You suffer 40.000 damage in return and nothing will prevent that damage.
This would make ramming speed a liability. If you ram something good you are likely going to blow up as well, which makes sense.
Second (my preferred) suggestion: Greatly reduce turnrate while under the effect of Ramming Speed and put Evasive Maneuvers on the same system cooldown. This puts the ball at the would-be victim. If he is paying attention he can evade the ram.
I prefer this one as it adds a bit more skill to the equation rather than just tweaking damage numbers/cooldown time. Downside is the incompetent players who are oblivious to their surroundings will still come to this forum and whine about it.:D
If you have any other suggestions feel free to add them here so the people at Cryptic have a nice source of possible tweaks to Ramming Speed to further improve PvP.:)
Of the two options I like the second although I'd rather not see Evasives and Ramming Speed share a cooldown. I do think it's funny when my BoP does 40k~ish damage to a target and I take 90k, lol.
in my sci/heal bop this has become a common reason for death, i would just like some wing mirrors attached to the ship because i dont always have the time to look 360 deg to see what is going on, after all i am trying to shoot, heal, debuff at some point
1a) Ramming Speed drops all power levels but engines to 0. Thus making the target vulnerable to being shot down before the ram happens.
1b) Resists drop to 0, and only brace for impact can add resists back.
2) Raise the ramming timer to 5-10m vs the shorter one we got w/ 1.2
3) Decrease the damage severity
4) Make it more reflective of relative mass (i.e. a bug hitting the windshield should splatter, not blow up the car and then fly away with a broken leg)
5) Remove all maneuverabilty during the duration of the effect (you're locked into your current heading for the ram, so if the target moves, you miss)
I like the suggestion to lock course once the ability is activated.
Some other ideas:
Both ships should suffer an additional stun effect upon contact, with duration proportional to their mass.
Damage distribution between the two ships is modified by arc hit on the target ship - ramming from the sides does bonus damage, while ramming from the front does less damage (gameplay reason = to prevent every head-on attack run from ending with a ram joust; immersion reason = ship structure, deflector field, and SIF are oriented to minimize damage from solid objects coming at the ship from the front).
Reduce total damage done by ramming once weapons damage is more reasonably balanced.
1a) Ramming Speed drops all power levels but engines to 0. Thus making the target vulnerable to being shot down before the ram happens.
1b) Resists drop to 0, and only brace for impact can add resists back.
2) Raise the ramming timer to 5-10m vs the shorter one we got w/ 1.2
3) Decrease the damage severity
4) Make it more reflective of relative mass (i.e. a bug hitting the windshield should splatter, not blow up the car and then fly away with a broken leg)
5) Remove all maneuverabilty during the duration of the effect (you're locked into your current heading for the ram, so if the target moves, you miss)
I think that 1, 2, 4 and 5 are actually not a bad idea if all are added as a package. Make people seriously consider the likely outcome to deter some of the spamming. That being said, I like this ability a lot and would hate to see it have a lame pay off. That's why I'm against the 3 option to decrease severity.
Damage distribution between the two ships is modified by arc hit on the target ship - ramming from the sides does bonus damage, while ramming from the front does less damage (gameplay reason = to prevent every head-on attack run from ending with a ram joust; immersion reason = ship structure, deflector field, and SIF are oriented to minimize damage from solid objects coming at the ship from the front).
Initial reaction was to disagree on the basis that when combining the speed of two objects traveling towards each other the damage should actually be greater. But you pretty much addressed that issue and now I'm leaning more towards your line of thinking. I would like to see a little more emphasis on which parts of which ships make contact, for example, whether or not it was a solid shot or my BoP skimmed right off the nacel or something.
In my opinion Ramming speed should always destroy the ramming vessel when used.
The Enterprise E wasn't destroyed when it rammed the Scimitar so why should all our ships be destroyed when using ramming speed? If it's something like a BoP or escort ramming an exploration cruiser, star cruiser or battleship then yeah the smaller ship should prolly be destroyed but a star cruiser ramming a BoP destroyed? no way.
Another thing, ramming isn't THAT easy and it's not used very often so I don't see why they should nerf it, it's just gonna stop people from using it.
Well, I'd think that a BoP could certainly take out a Cruiser depending on what was hit and if the resulting damage caused something catastrophic like a warp core breach or something. If you want to cite instances from the movies and shows, there was an episode of Deep Space 9 where a little Jem'Hadar /facepalm pwned a Galaxy Class ship.
I don't think that ramming should be an automatic end for either ship but that should certainly be a possible outcome. That kind of random critical severity is already built into the mechanics too.
The Enterprise E wasn't destroyed when it rammed the Scimitar so why should all our ships be destroyed when using ramming speed? If it's something like a BoP or escort ramming an exploration cruiser, star cruiser or battleship then yeah the smaller ship should prolly be destroyed but a star cruiser ramming a BoP destroyed? no way.
Another thing, ramming isn't THAT easy and it's not used very often so I don't see why they should nerf it, it's just gonna stop people from using it.
No reasean really. I was just thinking of the speeds involved, the mass of the participating vessels and the fact that they all have rather delicate warp cores that don't repsond well to being crushed during impact. A BoP traveling at nearly full impulse is a very destructive thing, just as a cruiser traveling at the same speeds is also a big, metal bullet and it will have similiar results.
On a side note, destroyed doesn't mean each ship is reduced to vapor and dust on impact. Even if the cruiser is only half destroyed it should still suffer more than enough dammage to take it completely out of play.
But mainly I think they should have both vessels destroyed when ramming to stop players from zerging with it.
Another thing, ramming isn't THAT easy and it's not used very often so I don't see why they should nerf it, it's just gonna stop people from using it.
When you can destroy enemy combatants fairly easily it isn't an issue. When you play against good individuals or coordinated Premade teams in PvP it becomes an issue. The persistent team healing just doesn't allow for Cruisers and Science vessels to "wear down" opponents...so for them, a ram is the next best thing. Since the patch I can count the number of times I have died at all in my Cruiser on one hand...and three of them were because of multiple, chained rams by the opposing team.
In my experience it is that easy and it is used very often...typically more than once in coordinated and pre-planned fashions. It should be kept in check with either longer cooldowns, increased damage to ramming vessel, a scaled damage based on speed/ship class/ramming ship class, or a mix of all three.
When you can destroy enemy combatants fairly easily it isn't an issue. When you play against good individuals or coordinated Premade teams in PvP it becomes an issue. The persistent team healing just doesn't allow for Cruisers and Science vessels to "wear down" opponents...so for them, a ram is the next best thing. Since the patch I can count the number of times I have died at all in my Cruiser on one hand...and three of them were because of multiple, chained rams by the opposing team.
In my experience it is that easy and it is used very often...typically more than once in coordinated and pre-planned fashions. It should be kept in check with either longer cooldowns, increased damage to ramming vessel, a scaled damage based on speed/ship class/ramming ship class, or a mix of all three.
I have been rammed 4 times in a bop in one match from a premade team, it is impossible to watch 360 deg all the time, the reason was i was built for shield/hull healing and the pew pew method does take a while, whereas a single blindsided ram is 99% likely to get the job done.
However i really dont see ramming itself as an issue, i do dislike the consequence free nature of it. The only times i have seen ramming on the movies or shows is a last resort thing resulting in significant damage at the very least to both ships. Personally i think there should be a collision marker that remains on both ships should they survive that disables devices located in the region rammed.
Thus if you are the ramming ship you lose your ability to fire forward wpns and any skills that is based on the deflector dish are no longer active either for a set amount of time to simulate long repairs or until the ship is destroyed and respawns. The ship rammed is effected in the same way, so being rammed from the rear disables rear weapons and engines, possibly with a percentage chance to disable a cloaking device should the ship be fitted with one etc.
You would have to consider the immediate tactical gain of removing the player you rammed over the longer term detriment to your ships ability. Sometimes one shooting a healer like faithborn would be worth it as you could roll the other 4, sometimes killing that escort would not as you efectively make it a 5 v 4.2 for 1.30min after the escort respawns unless they kill you first in your reduced state, however the more ramming you team does for short term gains will likely reduce the remaing ships ability to win in the longer term.
That sounds like some fun mechanics! Not as bland as straight damage where you blow up or you don't, and even establishes consequences if you survive. No zero sum ftw.
I had my first experience with the cordinated ramming tactic last night and I found it frustrating to say the least. Raming speed should be a last ditch effort to take out an enemy not an opening move.
I like the locked course idea and the all power to engiens 0 to other systems.
How about a short movment debuff if you conect. The more dead on the hit your momentom is decreased and your engiens go to 0 and have to build power back up.
It would be kind of cool in that case to see a boost to warp core breaches. Make them take longer, like 6 seconds into the respawn counter, and then increase their radius a bit. And where is that ball of light that always extends beyond the explosion?
It would be kind of cool in that case to see a boost to warp core breaches. Make them take longer, like 6 seconds into the respawn counter, and then increase their radius a bit. And where is that ball of light that always extends beyond the explosion?
well if it is better graphics you want then i want the last image when rammed to be my captain showing you the bird for your dastardly act, or as a sound to hear muttley snickering in the background.
LoL. Fair enough XD. I should have been more clear though. It's not just graphics I want boosted but damage! I want people to see a ship sputtering plasma and have both teams haul TRIBBLE$ out of there!
Obviously I'm taking this beyond Ramming Speed though. My bad... >_<
LoL. Fair enough XD. I should have been more clear though. It's not just graphics I want boosted but damage! I want people to see a ship sputtering plasma and have both teams haul TRIBBLE$ out of there!
Obviously I'm taking this beyond Ramming Speed though. My bad... >_<
Well if we include abandon ship in the mix the question is how do you make these options of last resort usefull while not making them overpowered where they are used as the main attack.
In my opinion Ramming speed should always destroy the ramming vessel when used.
Agreed.
It is supposed to be a suicidal last ditch tactic that only the most desperate captain would use. Not as it is now where peeps do it all the time without hardly even scratching their ship.
Comments
1a) Ramming Speed drops all power levels but engines to 0. Thus making the target vulnerable to being shot down before the ram happens.
1b) Resists drop to 0, and only brace for impact can add resists back.
2) Raise the ramming timer to 5-10m vs the shorter one we got w/ 1.2
3) Decrease the damage severity
4) Make it more reflective of relative mass (i.e. a bug hitting the windshield should splatter, not blow up the car and then fly away with a broken leg)
5) Remove all maneuverabilty during the duration of the effect (you're locked into your current heading for the ram, so if the target moves, you miss)
I have to agree, it really should be a death run. Heck it should grant the Klinks a 30 second dying with honor bonus on respawn. lol
Some other ideas:
I think that 1, 2, 4 and 5 are actually not a bad idea if all are added as a package. Make people seriously consider the likely outcome to deter some of the spamming. That being said, I like this ability a lot and would hate to see it have a lame pay off. That's why I'm against the 3 option to decrease severity.
Initial reaction was to disagree on the basis that when combining the speed of two objects traveling towards each other the damage should actually be greater. But you pretty much addressed that issue and now I'm leaning more towards your line of thinking. I would like to see a little more emphasis on which parts of which ships make contact, for example, whether or not it was a solid shot or my BoP skimmed right off the nacel or something.
The Enterprise E wasn't destroyed when it rammed the Scimitar so why should all our ships be destroyed when using ramming speed? If it's something like a BoP or escort ramming an exploration cruiser, star cruiser or battleship then yeah the smaller ship should prolly be destroyed but a star cruiser ramming a BoP destroyed? no way.
Another thing, ramming isn't THAT easy and it's not used very often so I don't see why they should nerf it, it's just gonna stop people from using it.
I don't think that ramming should be an automatic end for either ship but that should certainly be a possible outcome. That kind of random critical severity is already built into the mechanics too.
No reasean really. I was just thinking of the speeds involved, the mass of the participating vessels and the fact that they all have rather delicate warp cores that don't repsond well to being crushed during impact. A BoP traveling at nearly full impulse is a very destructive thing, just as a cruiser traveling at the same speeds is also a big, metal bullet and it will have similiar results.
On a side note, destroyed doesn't mean each ship is reduced to vapor and dust on impact. Even if the cruiser is only half destroyed it should still suffer more than enough dammage to take it completely out of play.
But mainly I think they should have both vessels destroyed when ramming to stop players from zerging with it.
When you can destroy enemy combatants fairly easily it isn't an issue. When you play against good individuals or coordinated Premade teams in PvP it becomes an issue. The persistent team healing just doesn't allow for Cruisers and Science vessels to "wear down" opponents...so for them, a ram is the next best thing. Since the patch I can count the number of times I have died at all in my Cruiser on one hand...and three of them were because of multiple, chained rams by the opposing team.
In my experience it is that easy and it is used very often...typically more than once in coordinated and pre-planned fashions. It should be kept in check with either longer cooldowns, increased damage to ramming vessel, a scaled damage based on speed/ship class/ramming ship class, or a mix of all three.
I have been rammed 4 times in a bop in one match from a premade team, it is impossible to watch 360 deg all the time, the reason was i was built for shield/hull healing and the pew pew method does take a while, whereas a single blindsided ram is 99% likely to get the job done.
However i really dont see ramming itself as an issue, i do dislike the consequence free nature of it. The only times i have seen ramming on the movies or shows is a last resort thing resulting in significant damage at the very least to both ships. Personally i think there should be a collision marker that remains on both ships should they survive that disables devices located in the region rammed.
Thus if you are the ramming ship you lose your ability to fire forward wpns and any skills that is based on the deflector dish are no longer active either for a set amount of time to simulate long repairs or until the ship is destroyed and respawns. The ship rammed is effected in the same way, so being rammed from the rear disables rear weapons and engines, possibly with a percentage chance to disable a cloaking device should the ship be fitted with one etc.
You would have to consider the immediate tactical gain of removing the player you rammed over the longer term detriment to your ships ability. Sometimes one shooting a healer like faithborn would be worth it as you could roll the other 4, sometimes killing that escort would not as you efectively make it a 5 v 4.2 for 1.30min after the escort respawns unless they kill you first in your reduced state, however the more ramming you team does for short term gains will likely reduce the remaing ships ability to win in the longer term.
I like the locked course idea and the all power to engiens 0 to other systems.
How about a short movment debuff if you conect. The more dead on the hit your momentom is decreased and your engiens go to 0 and have to build power back up.
well if it is better graphics you want then i want the last image when rammed to be my captain showing you the bird for your dastardly act, or as a sound to hear muttley snickering in the background.
Obviously I'm taking this beyond Ramming Speed though. My bad... >_<
Well if we include abandon ship in the mix the question is how do you make these options of last resort usefull while not making them overpowered where they are used as the main attack.
Agreed.
It is supposed to be a suicidal last ditch tactic that only the most desperate captain would use. Not as it is now where peeps do it all the time without hardly even scratching their ship.
Already happening. RS needs a massive nerf.