test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

to dev and bad escort flyer

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2010 in PvP Gameplay
first... to every player that call escort TRIBBLE now... you need to learn to play and adapt

i had to do major build changes to still be able to be viable in pvp, its doable

what i did... alot of testing on tribble before the official release... most peopel here... just waited the patch to come live and hoping to be decent from what they read from some bad tester from the test server

also, our damage didnt get trully nerfed that much, yea there is a reduction, but that not the main issue

dev, they main issue is the stackign resistance, even with all damage stackign bonuses, its impossible to kill a cruiser that can stack resistance helign bonus all day

i did alot of testing, and the main problem is... a good cruiser pilot spected for healing / survival vs an escort ( considerign the scort have adapted and gotten some good self healing) will end up in a never ending fight

well never ending... we called it that after 10 minute of trying

that patch have broken the 1v1 mechanic, its impossible 1v1 for an escort to kill a cruiser, but its also impossible for the cruiser to kill the escort

these testign are made by good players, not the average scrub.

1 last thing... the cannon nerf was trulyl uncalled for,

dev tell me the reason we got such a huge reduction

before 1,2 the reason we killed too fast was the mix of massive damage increase buff and torpedoes hit, not enegy weapon (cannnon) atack
you made cannon somethign very silly, at least , make the damage range or 10km do the maximum damage, because dual beam bank are better than cannon now
why?
-the dps loss over distance is less
-90 degree range
- very minor lower dps
so... if you start firing the beam from a wider distance, or farter, you technically gain more dps than cannon cuz you start shootign sooner at greater damage
plz dev, make cannons viable again
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    agreed, we need cannons back the way they were. its making them a real chore to use. as if the narrow firing arc didn't make things hard enough they decide to make them useless as well. all the healing bonuses for cruisers is enough to make the game more balanced. I like cannons so i really don't want to change but to be honest all this talk makes me want to change.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    The Base DPS for a MK X Dual Beam Bank is 208. The Base DPS for MK X Dual Heavy Cannons is 232.
    On the surface 24 points hardly justifies the additional damage loss by range and arc. Taken by this alone, it looks bad for cannons.

    However, there are still two good reasons to use cannons over beams. Beam overload is not an equal replacement for cannon rapid fire. CRF boosts the damage of all cannons for the duration, with beam overload you get only one shot. Granted it can be one massive shot, but all in all youll get a longer burst of sustained spike damage from a cannon load out with CRF

    And cannons still have the highest single shot damage of any non torpedo weapon. Base MK X DHC's is 348. Base damage for a MK X DBB is 260. Thats a slightly more significant difference. Coupled with Rapid fire cannons are still able to spike in more damage then beams.

    Im with most folks, I think they nerfed cannons to much. The differences between cannons and beams is VERY narrow. But on the whole, I still feel cannons come out on top. If even by the narrowest of margins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    You get the right escorts fighting each other 1 on 1 and it can be almost impossible for them to kill each other too. But its a good thing. Teamwork and the science skill wildcard is what wins matches now, not some lone tac that gets a lot of crits at the right times.

    But you know what, there are ways to split up a group of cruisers supporting each other, like with tractor beam repulsors. You can TRIBBLE up their healing with scramble sensors. Some of the revamped science and engineering skills also do some pretty sizeable damage, but that is more for science ships and cruisers. You can also try the revamped AOE skills like scatter volley to confuse and make them panic by getting selfish with their heals, and thus not heal the focused target.

    Teamwork isn't something you see a lot of, though. I still regularly outheal my whole team in my escort, yay PUGs.

    Personally though, I would like to see them restore cannons DPS/arc modifer but nerf crit severity. Spikes are still high and its still because of crits.

    At any rate, try out different tactics and strategies. Its not just a game of DPS and healing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    everythign debuff is too easely counterable now, its break the strategy mechanic
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I'm pretty sure as of right now Beams with BO are better than torps, people shields come back to fast now for most torp hits to be effective.

    I've been running 3dhcs up front and one DBB with 2turrets and a beam in the back with some awesome results, however I have been questioning either going all beam or splitting up my front with 2 cannons and two beams, as well as adding a beam in the back or going 3 beams.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Before the patch i had fully buffed cannons (for my build) on both tac's running at ~2500 (just over) dps, and that had a 15s duration with CRF.

    Today on my tac's post 1.2 i have a build that allows my cannons to reach ~2500 (just over) dps (discounting the bonus from cloak). However the duration is a little less due to timing changes. So i can spike the same as before, more or less, now i just have to find a target that doesn't get to heal faster than that and i am golden, those slow reacting players will still go pop just as they always did, and the good ones wont. The real differnce is once you get into a fight of atrition vs a good cruiser/engi player it is more likely they will come out ahead, but hey cant have it all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    your forgetting how firing arc and distance now factor into your cannon DPS more now, if you are not dead on at the right range your DPS drops significantly with cannons. Even though your tool tip says 2500 DPS that's under perfect conditions with you having your cannons on target perfectly for the full 10 seconds, and not including any resistances that your opponent may have. I would say, thanks to recent changes, I would expect at least 15% resistance from everyone, if not a lot more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Cannons right now are a preference only. Running Beams is most likely superior for many reasons, and BO and B:FaW are great and a tier lower in boff cost than cannons. Torps are still great damage, just quite a bit harder to use, almost to the point of not being useful in the majority of engagements.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    dev, they main issue is the stackign resistance, even with all damage stackign bonuses, its impossible to kill a cruiser that can stack resistance helign bonus all day
    Negative resist stuff was the problem that made Escorts broken.
    Positive shield resist stacking is now what makes Cruisers seem so impossible to kill in 1 on 1. Shield resistances, much to my surprise, don't work like hull resistance. They are "real" resistances. This means if you got a shield resist of 85 %, you really take only 15 % of the usual damage. And if you get one of 103 %... You don't take damage at all.

    Trying to raise cannon damage is the wrong move. It just means you can kill a shield-resist-stacking cruisers with bleedthrough, and everyone else with one volley. That can't be the goal.

    There are a few things to consider:
    1) If there is anything to nerf, it will have to be the way resistances for shields work.
    2) Do we really care about 1 vs 1? Minimum match size should be 5 vs 5 (if it wasn't for the broken Queue system). No one needs to be engaging someone else alone. With focused fire and targeting weak spots in the enemies defense, you should be able to overcome anyone. Exceptions occur for extreme matches - like 5 Cruisers vs 5 Cruisers.
    Focused fire is a also a reason to not up damage again. If one Escort can kill any single ship - 5 of them focusing fire on one target will be impossible to deal with, no matter the support lended.
    3) If the above isn't true - you can't overcome everyone in some way with the right timing and good teamwork, we need this adressed.
    4) If the above isn't true - 1 vs 1 become more common and expected - we will need to rework balance. (Considerably.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    lol to that guy, you have a few to learn, in any pvp game, 1v1 is part of it, minimal 1v1 balance is essentiel,

    even so a good healign cruiser can hold 3 people on him for 1 minute and more, which doesnt make sense

    2 thing they need to do to fix the problem

    1- cannon slight dps increase for the 45 degree angle

    2- similar to hull, some kind of shield resist cap
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Shield resists simply need to have dimminishing returns.
    Heck on my BOP I dropped Hazard emiters too run Transfer Shield Strength. WIth 2x Emergency power to shields and Transfer Shield strength your going to have to work to get at my hull anyway.
    The shield resist stack is silly... when my Emerg to Shields I and II overlap for 10 seconds and I hit Transfer Shield Strength... I am invincible to all by kinetic damage which I'm resisted against so I can cloak when I want too anyway.

    I'd say this is one of the few tweak they need to make right now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    The most important thing in this thread is the observation that resist stacking is broken.

    Damage output right now is fine. Healing output is fine. Hardens, say stacking Aux2SIF, TSS, HE, EP:Shields, and Extend Shields, are causing a lot of problems (including the "immortal Cruiser" issue) and need to be adjusted.

    Simple fix: nerf the numbers on every skill that imparts a general resist to either hull or shields. Nerf skills with powerful healing components relatively more than skills for which the harden is the main attraction (i.e. nerf Hazard Emitters, EP:Shields, and Transfer Shield Strength hardens more than Aux2SIF or Extend Shields).

    Complex fix: implement a hard cap (or diminishing returns, which has a similar effect) on the amount of resistance that can apply to either shields or hull. Say you set this cap at 50%; then, no matter what buffs are active on your ship, your shields will never take less than 50% of the raw incoming damage.
Sign In or Register to comment.