They need to fix the ridiculous knockback and hold spam. Immunity from knockbacks/holds after getting hit by one for a short time for a start. Its not fun getting pushed and held across the map.
The other issue with ground PVP is how quickly you die from focus fire. There isn't a whole lot you can do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you at the same time. Maybe a damage resistance on shields that absorbs more from #2 attacks would help.
Ever since Cryptic disabled the zone out button, and put a 4 minute timer that closed all possibilities for new people to join the match after the 4 minutes have passed, activity in ground PVP plummeted.
The logic behind those changes are so flawed, too. What do we gain from having this 4 minute time limit? Nobody wants to be locked in a 2 vs 5 match with no chances for anyone new to join to fill up the unbalanced side. It's absurd.
The other issue with ground PVP is how quickly you die from focus fire. There isn't a whole lot you can do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you at the same time. Maybe a damage resistance on shields that absorbs more from #2 attacks would help.
There isn't a whole lot you should be able to do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you in the first place.. after all your not in a space ship there and nothing stops your team from doing the exact same. Afterall its a teamplay game, assisting others on kills is exactly the way how it should be.
Instead of turning a 5vs5 team game into a 5x 1vs1 sort of game they should rather add an duel command additionally outside of team pvp.
There isn't a whole lot you should be able to do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you in the first place.. after all your not in a space ship there and nothing stops your team from doing the exact same. Afterall its a teamplay game, assisting others on kills is exactly the way how it should be.
Instead of turning a 5vs5 team game into a 5x 1vs1 sort of game they should rather add an duel command additionally outside of team pvp.
Its not fun at all to be insta killed, nor is it fun to insta kill.
Its not fun at all to be insta killed, nor is it fun to insta kill.
Its a TEAM game. Its not fun for 3-4 players to hit the one invincible guy that thinks he isn't supposed to die either.
It may be ok if you can tank 3-4 npc's hitting you.. it may even be ok if you survive if a couple hundred npc's hit you in some single player game where your the big invincible hero for some reason... but in player versus player games your supposed to be really challenged in a 1 on 1 fight already, taking on a 1 vs X fight against players is just unrealistic and has always a predictable outcome (if the players involved know what they are doing).
The fun in team pvp comes from successful team play, which is to be countered by team play and not by buffing individuals survival skills against multiple enemies. Calling targets, assisting each other, covering each other, calling for heals is all part of how team play works.
I play several hours of ground pvp every day these days (with fleet groups and solo/pugs [on both sides even]) and beeing focus fired upon imo isn't really a problem. If im with my friends / fleet groups we take care of each other, be it by healing or locking enemies down before they can deal dmg. Going solo in a game and/or playing with a pug on the other hand is a different story.. sometimes i get lucky and have group mates that stick around and help and sometimes i don't and thus get cornered by multiple and die quick, but thats only natural in a team game.
The real issue with ground pvp in sto is rather that the teams are very rarely even (a queue issue to start with), and sometimes when you think groups are even (by numbers) its still not even because you may have lots of inexperiences players vs a group of experienced ones that are focused on ground, or even worse you may have some that either want to die (to finish their quests quick) or don't even respawn anymore and thus remove any chance of their team to win (assuming there was a chance).
Regardless on what side you play with, be it the winning & team playing team or the bad team - games like that are most of the time very boring for both sides and everyone usually just wants to get it out of it asap. Sadly the amount of challenging / even numbered / fun to play games on ground are a lot more rare then in space pvp and thats in my opinion a major factor that drives players away from it.
The last change to the queue system to only allow reinforcements to teams within the first 4 minutes made the situation even worse and increased the amount of unbalanced games btw.
I have played in a lot of *really fun* ground PvP matches, although what constitutes fun for me may not be fun for everyone else. Fun matches involve long drawn out battles where the sides seem very even and the players are either gaining or losing ground through the hallways at a very slow pace. Groups can pin each other down behind obstacles and doorways, and they have time to try out different strategies to break one another's lines. The flow moves slowly enough that it can stop, shift direction and then reverse again. In the process, people are slowly picked off through carelessness or lucky chance, and somewhere in the background the killscore tally is increasing while everyone focuses on the firefight of their life.
To me, that's a lot of fun. And I've been fortunate enough to play in enough ground PvP matches to know that those kinds of battles do happen.
What's absolutely not fun is one or two people being repeatedly chased through the halls and gunned down every 30 seconds by a roving band of enemy players. And then these players say "good game!" afterwords. Was it really? Is that what makes up a good game to some people? I guess we all have different tastes.
The ground PvP maps need a lot of help. For the most part they're just a bunch of connecting corridors that encourage players to endlessly lap in a pack together and mow down whatever pops up in their path. There is no specific point to defend or assault, no requirement to force teams to split up into more manageable encounters. No safe place to fall back to and regroup. And when you combine all of that with the fact that you respawn randomly somewhere on the map, and often alone, it's no wonder a lot of these matches play out like they do: a pack of 5 players running from one respawn point to the next, annihilating any unprepared individual who pops up along their route. This is only made worse by the fact that we all show up on radar, even when we're out of sight.
I've been on both ends of that and, to me, neither side of it is any fun. I wish these maps were designed with some actual tactical PvP play in mind. I really appreciate it when the matches happen to go in that direction, but often they just boil down to lapping the map repeatedly in a pack and shooting something dead before it causes you to break your stride.
Just thinking it needs to be blended a bit more in some fashion. perhaps if your space traits also affected ground traits and it wasn't like a dividing line for which way you want to play your character. If I've made a character with 4 space traits. I'm not likely going to ground pvp with him.
Get rid of the ridiculous amount of holds, or increase the immunity granted after. Right now, you are hold for 6s, and the immunity lasts 8s...so you will have it 2s :rolleyes:
Also, anoying bunnyhoppers, sniper lock, and lunge rubber banding have to be fixed.
The best matches are when you have a premade team versus a premade team. When everyone is supporting each other, then there is not a big problem with exposes/holds/rifle butt. When teamwork is involved, then the fights last longer and are more fun. In my opinion, it all depends on having a SCIENCE officer who is healing the team. Whether or not you have a medic will make or break the match (unless you are a bunch of engineers).
Here are some good examples of teams sticking together both of the Fed and Klingon sides.
Here is a video of a team that puts up a very coordinated fight, but ultimately lost because they didn't have enough heals. Notice how skilled everyone is in avoiding rifle butt (as in, they're constantly moving away from enemies and giving themselves breathing space). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5GU3Lbux4
You mean a good healer is a must?
And without one you're screwed?
I could swear I said that somewhere....
T4 and T5 are basically not winnable if you do not have a GOOD healer when the opposition has one, unlike the lower tiers, where good teamwork can overcome a healer even if you do not have one because they can be killed easier (separated out with ONE person making it so they have to heal themselves to stay alive, while the rest fight normally). Just cannot do that at higher tiers, as a good healer can keep themselves and 1 or 2 others fully up because the healing outweighs the damage by so much.
Exploits used to overcome this at T5 and sorta put every class on equal terms (You HAD to evade or pop a shield charge, or die), as healers cannot keep more than 2 people Expose immune. But with the damage nerf on Exploits, EVERYONE can handle and exploit shot if they have decent gear and at least 1/3 shield.
I was in a loose friends/pug group with Surge immediately after that patch was introduced, and we lost the match against a pre-made with a Healer (close, but LOST). Surge was like "WTF, how did we lose?", and I said "Welcome to the new STOL ground where Healers dominate". He went and got a kit right after the match...
One thing I liked before the Exploit nerf, was class did not matter if you played as a team. That patch made class choice a MUST ( you HAVE to have GOOD healer to win, IF the other team is good and they have one) and turned the ground game into like an old style WoW group thing.
OK, before you join our group, what's your class and spec? Need healer for PvP...
imo, this was one of Cryptics first change introductions (out of a few) that ruined ground PvP.
Just my opinion of course....
I am just an average ground pvp'er who thinks pvp is one of the best parts of the game. Unfortunately, there are decreasing numbers in the queue and less matches. I don't know if it is because of the queue system--allowing mismatches or because some players get discouraged from losing, or some get bored from winning, but I am hopeful it can make a rebound and become full of players again.
I don't mind facing pre-made teams with pugs--getting slaughtered as a team is not really fun, but it is challenging. I should probably try to get a pre-made group going myself.
I thought the addition of Shanty Town would bring some back to the pvp ground battles, but I have rarely
seen that queue full.
Are other maps necessary to get others involved again? What will it take to make pvp more interesting for the average player, and fill up the queues again?
I thought the addition of Shanty Town would bring some back to the pvp ground battles, but I have rarely seen that queue full.
I think the PvP menu itself is part of the problem. It always seems like the maps listed towards the bottom of the menu are rarely visited. Do players just not bother to scroll down? A good example of this is the FvF space maps. FvF Cracked Planet is towards the top and always being queued for. For some reason the FvF Solar Wind is much further down and I hardly ever see anyone signing up for it at the Admiral Ranks.
Maybe if the PvP menu was organized better, and made much larger so all the maps were on the screen at once (even if the lists have to be done in side-by-side columns), maps like Shanty Town (which is all the way at the bottom of the current menu) would see some action.
Just thinking it needs to be blended a bit more in some fashion. perhaps if your space traits also affected ground traits and it wasn't like a dividing line for which way you want to play your character. If I've made a character with 4 space traits. I'm not likely going to ground pvp with him.
This would be a big help. Traits don't matter in PvE, so it makes sense to pick them based entirely on PvP. PvP tends to favor min/maxing, and since ground PvP is much less popular than space PvP, many players focus exclusively on space traits, which keeps them from *ever* playing ground matches. The game is designed so that instead of favoring one but doing both, it's a lot better to focus on one and ignore the other.
Not being able to leave a match early just adds insult to injury. On space maps you can still fly off the edge of the map if you really want to. I know it's bad form to leave a match early but if you end up alone against a full team, with no hope of other players coming into a game which is already in progress, then it's usually more fun to just turn the game off and do something else than it is to wait through getting killed 40 times.
I was never that upset by people leaving early, and I didn't mind coming into matches which were already in progress, so I really don't understand why Cryptic changed that. Some matches are going to suck, but the only thing worse than a game that sucks, is a game that sucks which you can't leave and can't get any help if you just hold out long enough.
I do agree that it would be nice to see better organization with the maps. Having them separated in list form is confusing,...especially if a new person wants to try pvp for the first time.
Perhaps we can water the desert of ground pvp by inviting fellow fleet members to try it. Helping them with what type of weapons, shield, armor and kit to bind on will be a positive step. Playing matches with them will also go far, helping them with important tactics, how/when to use hypos, power cells etc...
I am personally going to try inviting fleet mates to pvp with me. Maybe we can change the deserted landscape one player at a time.
Ever since Cryptic disabled the zone out button, and put a 4 minute timer that closed all possibilities for new people to join the match after the 4 minutes have passed, activity in ground PVP plummeted.
The logic behind those changes are so flawed, too. What do we gain from having this 4 minute time limit? Nobody wants to be locked in a 2 vs 5 match with no chances for anyone new to join to fill up the unbalanced side. It's absurd.
Any time a game forces you to log out and not play rather than just quit the match is faced with some serious core problems that go beyond just one set of PvP rules. :eek:
The system of combat (PVP) need a complete revision. It is poorly conceived, badly thought out.
The system queue is not the right solution. Sometimes, too often, we must wait our turn while he does something else, or one is AFK ...
Conclusion, too often, teams are not equal. It often has a 1 vs 5, or 2 vs 4, etc. ...
FED / KDF same battle.
Sometimes, yes sometimes we have fights interesting. But it's too rare (1 / 10).
Disintegration is a real problem too. Sometimes, when we have a full life bar and a shield up, it can be rapidly disintegrate. Kill one or two players. It reappears, and you die again as quickly disintegrated ...
Where is the playing technique ? team play ?
when there are no enemies in front, we can not leave the party. It remains blocked for 1 hour ... without doing anything ...
The PVP need a complete revision.
Add an open area for 50 or 100 players in the space and ground.
If you chose to PvP, we should not wait randomly between 15 minutes or 1 hour .....
This was Cryptic's attempt to stick me in an uneven 3 vs 5 feds, with two other random Klingons, to laugh at me while I'm being tortured and no one new can join to fill up the KDF side due to the new 4-minute lockout rule. And sadly, uneven teams is more common now than even numbered teams. How much more obvious can the phrase "something is wrong here" get.
That's the thing, people always hated ground PvP, mainly because of those long-stuns and how easily exposes could be put on people. (Science really has an easy time putting exposes on).
But what was Cryptic's response? "We put Expose Debuffers on our shield charges". :rolleyes:
Then STO Arenas, something they obviously took from Halo and such. Which is why people want open PvP, so you can pick the location and use real strategy than wolf packing.
the major thing that needs fixing in both ground and space is the mis-match games. the amount of 2vs5 games I've played recently is a joke (something like 80-90% have at lest one side missing people). its not fun for either side.
-Even if its as simple as invite twice the number of people into the game, and first 5 (or 10) to accept get it, show a little number of 'slots left' so if not enough have accepted it might guilt trip another to join.
-get rid of the 4 min window, if your worried about people coming in last min and getting credit make their rewards be based on the % of time in game.
after that other things can be changed to have more ground combat, like reducing the number of kills needed, removing the cap on pvp map queued up for, or bringing in a random factor to what map you play
Just an idea, but wouldn't it be helpful if we could bring our bridge officers into ground PvP to make up the numbers when they are mismatched? I hate playing 5v1 no matter whether I'm on the advantaged or disadvantaged side, with this option that would no longer be a problem. Bridge officers could be booted when a new player joins.
I haven't read all the posts here, but personally, I LOVE ground combat. But only in PvE! It could be even more strategic than space combat, because of the map (in space you can hit the target most of the time, but at ground you can crouch behind objects etc.), the turrets and generators, many different and really cool skills like Thermal Vent, or all those grenades, healing abilities and so on, and better "maneuverbility" (<- totally failed at spelling) e. g. in space you have to turn like 5 seconds to shoot with your main weaponary, but at ground you can shoot, run into coverage, buffing, run out and shoot someone, all that in 3 seconds or something.
But the REALITY is, that ground combat is very bad. The controls are totally srewed up, sometimes I walk forward with "d", sometimes with "s" but only 50% of the time I'm walking forward with "w"! There are to many holds and knockbacks and exposes. I know from other MMOs, that it couls be much better. In fact, ground PvP in STO isn't strategic. It should be like this: You think about your skills, and use the right ones, the enemy reacts on your actions, if you are damaged you fall back or got healed from a teammate, if you're an engineer you maybe get coverage and fabricate a generator or something behind the corner, if you're a Tactical you activate your buffs, the enemy does all the same... Ground PvP is too fast! Plus, the radar shows every enemy, and since you respawn randomly (which is very stupid) you will get killed in a few seconds from a large group. The "Expose and Exploit" system is a very good idea, but in STO it doesn't work at all.
Space PvP is much better, why did they TRIBBLE up Ground PvP so much? Make it more like Space combat, Cryptic!!!
And sorry for my bad English, I'm very tired and don't speak Native English, so please forgive me.
Yes and no. I really think that the PvP model they're using in CO (which is what we have here) works well for what it is... a large arena with super heroes flying around, throwing cars at each other in a melee free-for-all. Which is the complete opposite of what we want/need in STO.
Cryptic, I implore you, get some of your level designers, the guy in charge of ground skill/ability balance, anybody involved in PvP design really (and include the space guys as well) and take a look at what's out there. I'm not saying that you should copy anything directly, but what we get can be heavily influenced by a couple of greats:
For space PvP, look at PotBS. There isn't much they do right in that game, but open PvP ship to ship combat is one of them.
For ground, look at a few different models. If you like run-and-gun, look at Modern Warfare 1 and 2 (or any of the earlier WW2 CoD games), if you're more interested in player based squad tactical PvP, look at Battlefield 2 or 2142... for squad based tactical gameplay with NPCs, look at Full Spectrum Warrior and the Brothers in Arms games.
There are a lot of games that do PvP well. We aren't limited to MMORPG style of combat, as long as it's fun and immersive.
Comments
The other issue with ground PVP is how quickly you die from focus fire. There isn't a whole lot you can do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you at the same time. Maybe a damage resistance on shields that absorbs more from #2 attacks would help.
The logic behind those changes are so flawed, too. What do we gain from having this 4 minute time limit? Nobody wants to be locked in a 2 vs 5 match with no chances for anyone new to join to fill up the unbalanced side. It's absurd.
There isn't a whole lot you should be able to do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you in the first place.. after all your not in a space ship there and nothing stops your team from doing the exact same. Afterall its a teamplay game, assisting others on kills is exactly the way how it should be.
Instead of turning a 5vs5 team game into a 5x 1vs1 sort of game they should rather add an duel command additionally outside of team pvp.
Its not fun at all to be insta killed, nor is it fun to insta kill.
Its a TEAM game. Its not fun for 3-4 players to hit the one invincible guy that thinks he isn't supposed to die either.
It may be ok if you can tank 3-4 npc's hitting you.. it may even be ok if you survive if a couple hundred npc's hit you in some single player game where your the big invincible hero for some reason... but in player versus player games your supposed to be really challenged in a 1 on 1 fight already, taking on a 1 vs X fight against players is just unrealistic and has always a predictable outcome (if the players involved know what they are doing).
The fun in team pvp comes from successful team play, which is to be countered by team play and not by buffing individuals survival skills against multiple enemies. Calling targets, assisting each other, covering each other, calling for heals is all part of how team play works.
I play several hours of ground pvp every day these days (with fleet groups and solo/pugs [on both sides even]) and beeing focus fired upon imo isn't really a problem. If im with my friends / fleet groups we take care of each other, be it by healing or locking enemies down before they can deal dmg. Going solo in a game and/or playing with a pug on the other hand is a different story.. sometimes i get lucky and have group mates that stick around and help and sometimes i don't and thus get cornered by multiple and die quick, but thats only natural in a team game.
The real issue with ground pvp in sto is rather that the teams are very rarely even (a queue issue to start with), and sometimes when you think groups are even (by numbers) its still not even because you may have lots of inexperiences players vs a group of experienced ones that are focused on ground, or even worse you may have some that either want to die (to finish their quests quick) or don't even respawn anymore and thus remove any chance of their team to win (assuming there was a chance).
Regardless on what side you play with, be it the winning & team playing team or the bad team - games like that are most of the time very boring for both sides and everyone usually just wants to get it out of it asap. Sadly the amount of challenging / even numbered / fun to play games on ground are a lot more rare then in space pvp and thats in my opinion a major factor that drives players away from it.
The last change to the queue system to only allow reinforcements to teams within the first 4 minutes made the situation even worse and increased the amount of unbalanced games btw.
To me, that's a lot of fun. And I've been fortunate enough to play in enough ground PvP matches to know that those kinds of battles do happen.
What's absolutely not fun is one or two people being repeatedly chased through the halls and gunned down every 30 seconds by a roving band of enemy players. And then these players say "good game!" afterwords. Was it really? Is that what makes up a good game to some people? I guess we all have different tastes.
The ground PvP maps need a lot of help. For the most part they're just a bunch of connecting corridors that encourage players to endlessly lap in a pack together and mow down whatever pops up in their path. There is no specific point to defend or assault, no requirement to force teams to split up into more manageable encounters. No safe place to fall back to and regroup. And when you combine all of that with the fact that you respawn randomly somewhere on the map, and often alone, it's no wonder a lot of these matches play out like they do: a pack of 5 players running from one respawn point to the next, annihilating any unprepared individual who pops up along their route. This is only made worse by the fact that we all show up on radar, even when we're out of sight.
I've been on both ends of that and, to me, neither side of it is any fun. I wish these maps were designed with some actual tactical PvP play in mind. I really appreciate it when the matches happen to go in that direction, but often they just boil down to lapping the map repeatedly in a pack and shooting something dead before it causes you to break your stride.
Also, anoying bunnyhoppers, sniper lock, and lunge rubber banding have to be fixed.
Here are some good examples of teams sticking together both of the Fed and Klingon sides.
Part 1 and 2 of a healer on each team. Each fight is drawn out because of the medic (barely any "instakills"), so people stay alive longer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgst9WL4MVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAy2d4vA6E
Here is a video of a team that puts up a very coordinated fight, but ultimately lost because they didn't have enough heals. Notice how skilled everyone is in avoiding rifle butt (as in, they're constantly moving away from enemies and giving themselves breathing space).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5GU3Lbux4
not true!
You can be spawn camped in Ker'rat all day long.
And without one you're screwed?
I could swear I said that somewhere....
T4 and T5 are basically not winnable if you do not have a GOOD healer when the opposition has one, unlike the lower tiers, where good teamwork can overcome a healer even if you do not have one because they can be killed easier (separated out with ONE person making it so they have to heal themselves to stay alive, while the rest fight normally). Just cannot do that at higher tiers, as a good healer can keep themselves and 1 or 2 others fully up because the healing outweighs the damage by so much.
Exploits used to overcome this at T5 and sorta put every class on equal terms (You HAD to evade or pop a shield charge, or die), as healers cannot keep more than 2 people Expose immune. But with the damage nerf on Exploits, EVERYONE can handle and exploit shot if they have decent gear and at least 1/3 shield.
I was in a loose friends/pug group with Surge immediately after that patch was introduced, and we lost the match against a pre-made with a Healer (close, but LOST). Surge was like "WTF, how did we lose?", and I said "Welcome to the new STOL ground where Healers dominate". He went and got a kit right after the match...
One thing I liked before the Exploit nerf, was class did not matter if you played as a team. That patch made class choice a MUST ( you HAVE to have GOOD healer to win, IF the other team is good and they have one) and turned the ground game into like an old style WoW group thing.
OK, before you join our group, what's your class and spec? Need healer for PvP...
imo, this was one of Cryptics first change introductions (out of a few) that ruined ground PvP.
Just my opinion of course....
I don't mind facing pre-made teams with pugs--getting slaughtered as a team is not really fun, but it is challenging. I should probably try to get a pre-made group going myself.
I thought the addition of Shanty Town would bring some back to the pvp ground battles, but I have rarely
seen that queue full.
Are other maps necessary to get others involved again? What will it take to make pvp more interesting for the average player, and fill up the queues again?
I think the PvP menu itself is part of the problem. It always seems like the maps listed towards the bottom of the menu are rarely visited. Do players just not bother to scroll down? A good example of this is the FvF space maps. FvF Cracked Planet is towards the top and always being queued for. For some reason the FvF Solar Wind is much further down and I hardly ever see anyone signing up for it at the Admiral Ranks.
Maybe if the PvP menu was organized better, and made much larger so all the maps were on the screen at once (even if the lists have to be done in side-by-side columns), maps like Shanty Town (which is all the way at the bottom of the current menu) would see some action.
Not being able to leave a match early just adds insult to injury. On space maps you can still fly off the edge of the map if you really want to. I know it's bad form to leave a match early but if you end up alone against a full team, with no hope of other players coming into a game which is already in progress, then it's usually more fun to just turn the game off and do something else than it is to wait through getting killed 40 times.
I was never that upset by people leaving early, and I didn't mind coming into matches which were already in progress, so I really don't understand why Cryptic changed that. Some matches are going to suck, but the only thing worse than a game that sucks, is a game that sucks which you can't leave and can't get any help if you just hold out long enough.
Perhaps we can water the desert of ground pvp by inviting fellow fleet members to try it. Helping them with what type of weapons, shield, armor and kit to bind on will be a positive step. Playing matches with them will also go far, helping them with important tactics, how/when to use hypos, power cells etc...
I am personally going to try inviting fleet mates to pvp with me. Maybe we can change the deserted landscape one player at a time.
Any time a game forces you to log out and not play rather than just quit the match is faced with some serious core problems that go beyond just one set of PvP rules. :eek:
The system queue is not the right solution. Sometimes, too often, we must wait our turn while he does something else, or one is AFK ...
Conclusion, too often, teams are not equal. It often has a 1 vs 5, or 2 vs 4, etc. ...
FED / KDF same battle.
Sometimes, yes sometimes we have fights interesting. But it's too rare (1 / 10).
Disintegration is a real problem too. Sometimes, when we have a full life bar and a shield up, it can be rapidly disintegrate. Kill one or two players. It reappears, and you die again as quickly disintegrated ...
Where is the playing technique ? team play ?
when there are no enemies in front, we can not leave the party. It remains blocked for 1 hour ... without doing anything ...
The PVP need a complete revision.
Add an open area for 50 or 100 players in the space and ground.
If you chose to PvP, we should not wait randomly between 15 minutes or 1 hour .....
THX
This was Cryptic's attempt to stick me in an uneven 3 vs 5 feds, with two other random Klingons, to laugh at me while I'm being tortured and no one new can join to fill up the KDF side due to the new 4-minute lockout rule. And sadly, uneven teams is more common now than even numbered teams. How much more obvious can the phrase "something is wrong here" get.
But what was Cryptic's response? "We put Expose Debuffers on our shield charges". :rolleyes:
Then STO Arenas, something they obviously took from Halo and such. Which is why people want open PvP, so you can pick the location and use real strategy than wolf packing.
Cryptic really doesn't know jack about PvP.
the major thing that needs fixing in both ground and space is the mis-match games. the amount of 2vs5 games I've played recently is a joke (something like 80-90% have at lest one side missing people). its not fun for either side.
-Even if its as simple as invite twice the number of people into the game, and first 5 (or 10) to accept get it, show a little number of 'slots left' so if not enough have accepted it might guilt trip another to join.
-get rid of the 4 min window, if your worried about people coming in last min and getting credit make their rewards be based on the % of time in game.
after that other things can be changed to have more ground combat, like reducing the number of kills needed, removing the cap on pvp map queued up for, or bringing in a random factor to what map you play
I concur ground PvP is not fun because ground controls are terrible.
I can see why people are tired of ground PvP, because of people running around as midgets. The easy expose / kills, and the stupidy of the map itself.
So is Cryptic going to overhaul Ground PvP? I doubt it.
But the REALITY is, that ground combat is very bad. The controls are totally srewed up, sometimes I walk forward with "d", sometimes with "s" but only 50% of the time I'm walking forward with "w"! There are to many holds and knockbacks and exposes. I know from other MMOs, that it couls be much better. In fact, ground PvP in STO isn't strategic. It should be like this: You think about your skills, and use the right ones, the enemy reacts on your actions, if you are damaged you fall back or got healed from a teammate, if you're an engineer you maybe get coverage and fabricate a generator or something behind the corner, if you're a Tactical you activate your buffs, the enemy does all the same... Ground PvP is too fast! Plus, the radar shows every enemy, and since you respawn randomly (which is very stupid) you will get killed in a few seconds from a large group. The "Expose and Exploit" system is a very good idea, but in STO it doesn't work at all.
Space PvP is much better, why did they TRIBBLE up Ground PvP so much? Make it more like Space combat, Cryptic!!!
And sorry for my bad English, I'm very tired and don't speak Native English, so please forgive me.
Friendly Greetings!
Yes and no. I really think that the PvP model they're using in CO (which is what we have here) works well for what it is... a large arena with super heroes flying around, throwing cars at each other in a melee free-for-all. Which is the complete opposite of what we want/need in STO.
Cryptic, I implore you, get some of your level designers, the guy in charge of ground skill/ability balance, anybody involved in PvP design really (and include the space guys as well) and take a look at what's out there. I'm not saying that you should copy anything directly, but what we get can be heavily influenced by a couple of greats:
For space PvP, look at PotBS. There isn't much they do right in that game, but open PvP ship to ship combat is one of them.
For ground, look at a few different models. If you like run-and-gun, look at Modern Warfare 1 and 2 (or any of the earlier WW2 CoD games), if you're more interested in player based squad tactical PvP, look at Battlefield 2 or 2142... for squad based tactical gameplay with NPCs, look at Full Spectrum Warrior and the Brothers in Arms games.
There are a lot of games that do PvP well. We aren't limited to MMORPG style of combat, as long as it's fun and immersive.