so apparently people who recycle their bridge officers are exploiters now too, so says an unamed escort (kek) from an unamed reputable pvp fleet (7th core). I just think its funny. i mean every semi-decent pvp team i have known recycles their Boffs, and apparently the word on the street is we are ALL exploiters....i dont get it.
I would like to add i am in no way saying anything negavtive about 7th core, alot of those guys are great, and good players to boot....cheers
personally, I swap BO's often (out of combat of-course), though with slightly different abilities not really the same ones.
for example, sometimes I will load my sci BO with tractor repulse
i know it's cheesy, but it seems it's kinda easy to push the healing cruiser out of range of his support and kill him
The footprint of a cruiser is kinda large so it just ram his broadside with evasion and Tractor Repulse, just need to get him out of range of HazEmit or Extend Shields
But to the point, i swap BO's all the time.. Don't see it as an exploit,
Global Cooldown is basically there for a reason. What we discussing, abusing the Commander Station? Omega III or CRF III?
My tac slots which i have assigned 2 have simular abilities omega, CRF, HY. granted i could swap, I just find it easier to mash buttons, i swap my sci guys as the game progresses and on what would be helpful
in-fact, i don't even have regular Names for them, Since the ones I swap are in my LT stations the first two abilities is all I care about.
Jam'Sci
Haz'Sci
Sci'Trac
Eng'Rsp
See below, I put myself in combat, can't swap then. So, whats the big deal?
My biggest pain is finding where the abilites went to on my hotbar
Whenever someone is incapable of coming up with a counter to somthing people can do in the game, you are automatically a exploiter... Get used to it.
I could say somthing about the source about the accusation, but im biased already toward a affiliation you've mentioned, so im geussing that it would be better not to.
Why would we be given so many different officer slots if the intention wasn't for dynamic changes.
Ya a BoP has 4 positions, was one of my active members suppose to die in combat for me to swap in one of the other 9 commissioned? [rhetorical question]
what they just should do is a global cd on same bo abilities to prevent the abuse of just switching out BO's after a fight to have fresh cd's on long cd abilities like RSP. dunno where else that could be "exploited". so if on switches out a ... this is so pointless... end
The design intent of a cooldown is to limit the uptime of a powerful ability by preventing its reuse within a certain period of time.
Swapping BOFFs for the purpose of resetting the cooldown timer increases the ability's uptime and thus is clearly a circumvention of that intent.
However, the implemented game mechanic does not disallow this practice.
Therefore, IMO, from a sportsmanship perspective, the practice is down at the dark end of the grey area. It's against the spirit of the rules, but not the letter.
From a pragmatic standpoint, there's nothing to be gained by making accusations toward other players, especially those who are already aware of this and choose to engage in the practice anyway. Addressing grievances to the developers could be more useful, but as changes are already in testing that would alter this mechanic (see below), it is unlikely that further comments would have any effect at this point.
From a forward-looking standpoint, the global cooldown system on Tribble will dampen but not curtail the practice of BOFF swapping to reset cooldowns - a player with two RSPs will receive no benefit, as they are already global cooldown-capped. A player with a single copy could still benefit, but stands to gain less, because the global cooldown will still limit frequency to no more than 15/45 seconds (i.e. they won't be able to RSP, run out, swap, and come back in 10 seconds with a fresh copy ready to go). If BOFF-swapping also circumvents the global ability cooldown (I'll have to test that tonight, I suppose), then I'd consider that a likely candidate for a bug.
From a forward-looking standpoint, the global cooldown system on Tribble will dampen but not curtail the practice of BOFF swapping to reset cooldowns - a player with two RSPs will receive no benefit, as they are already global cooldown-capped. A player with a single copy could still benefit, but stands to gain less, because the global cooldown will still limit frequency to no more than 15/45 seconds (i.e. they won't be able to RSP, run out, swap, and come back in 10 seconds with a fresh copy ready to go). If BOFF-swapping also circumvents the global ability cooldown (I'll have to test that tonight, I suppose), then I'd consider that a likely candidate for a bug.
I believe this is the case now on tribble, you can no longer bypass the global cooldown by swapping out a Bridge officer, only the longer cooldown for the used power.
Swapping out BOs should be acceptable...but it shouldnt reset any cool downs. Why should cool downs remain? because tye cool downs are due to sub-system limitations for use, not the inability of the BO to muster up enough strength to activate a special...it cant be that, it generally only requires a few button pushes on the panel.
If it turns out that swappingf BOs resets timers for specials like RSP, or some other very effective/advantage shifting BO special, then it is an exploit.
So even if the powers are slightly different between BOs, swapping to get a particular skill off of cool down sooner is exploiting a weakness or over-sight in the game mechanics.
I'm in the 7th Core and will defend kek to a point on this issue. I don't have a problem with swapping BO's to different skills based on how the match is progressing. But I do have a problem with people that swap to avoid the cooldowns. Your in a match and getting tractored constantly and your need a skill to break it and your not running it well then you swap to an officer with Polorize Hull or Omega to break the Tractor. Thats fine but when your fighting guys in a 5v5 cracked and they always have a copy of RSP when the come into battle then that is an exploit of the cooldown by swapping.
Wow. I had no idea this was an issue. Personally, I'm in favor of swapping BOffs in combat, but with a small cool down on all his/her abilities. (Wait, don't shoot me yet!)
My reasoning is this:
We're captaining starships, with crews up to (in some cases) thousands of people. We've seen interior modifications made to ships during combat in almost every episode that had it.
We've all seen episodes where an officer on the bridge had to be replaced in the middle of a fight. And it makes sense, that we should be able to order these things to take place; like changing the tachyon emitter arrays of the polaron junction tubes to allow the flow of tetryon particles, or ordering Mr. Crusher to shut up, and get down to sick bay... someone will move immediately to replace him.
So anyway, I've been in favor of hot-swapping (both components and Bridge Officers) during combat, but with an appropriate cool down. (To represent the time it takes to modify a system, or for an officer to get up, be relieved, the new guy signs in to his console, and is available for orders.
Possible cool downs:
Switch a component out: 30 seconds to one minute. A long time in combat. (and of course, it's debatable.)
Switch Bridge Officer: 5 - 10 seconds. -- The replacement is most likely on standby on the bridge, in a position to relieve whoever. All he has to do is walk/run (depending on the size of your bridge) over and sit down.
This would also work for hot-swapping deployables in a carrier.
Well i still like to use them for the dmg buff, but you are partially correct. While one omega is on cooldown the other will be available shortly after the global cooldown.
I just don't like to swap out my tac, maybe my button bar will make it clearer.
So wait... Swaping out Bridge officers is now an "Exploit"?
What's next? Cloaking or Mask energy signature?
No.. wait.. I got it.. Auto fire is an exploit.. Yup.. Just because I like to not have to emergency power to space bar, it's an exploit..
Or maybe he's saying it's a good thing.. Maybe he's fresh off Ground combat and imagined an orange ring around you.. And then got mad because he couldn't one shot you with his exploit attack..
So wait... Swaping out Bridge officers is now an "Exploit"?
What's next? Cloaking or Mask energy signature?
No.. wait.. I got it.. Auto fire is an exploit.. Yup.. Just because I like to not have to emergency power to space bar, it's an exploit..
Or maybe he's saying it's a good thing.. Maybe he's fresh off Ground combat and imagined an orange ring around you.. And then got mad because he couldn't one shot you with his exploit attack..
I thought the Cooldown was on the Station+ability, not the BO+Ability. Which is why I had two tac's in thier seats with same/simular ability. Didn't realize you could just get out of combat, swap and have CRFIII and HYIII again. I guess in most cases people doing the RSP reset. It's why I put the image of of my two stage attack cycle, but all with loaded BO's.
Well I can say I never flew out of combat to return right away with fresh spells. I have fled out (tactical retreat ) of 10yds and waited, usually not to long on those ability, but RSP is a long wait; so I would go back in with SCI Team and a bucket of prayers, in hopes they decided to retarget someone else.
I have mixed feeling, I want to be able to put people in place when I feel I need them, but shouldn't undo the Cooldown cycle.
This is an exploit when used to reset cooldowns. Like has been said, this is chiefly seen with RSP, but it should be pretty much gone with the coming changes.
This is an exploit when used to reset cooldowns. Like has been said, this is chiefly seen with RSP, but it should be pretty much gone with the coming changes.
And I maintain, we should be able to swap out BOffs at any time, including during combat, albeit with a small cool down to represent the time it takes for one BOff to vacate his chair, and another one sit down in his place, and take over his console.
If you're using a separate BOff, then no, I don't think it's an exploit. (The definition being to use a game bug or system to gain an unfair/unplanned advantage. If you were swapping them while IN combat, (even though I think we should be able to do so) then yes, it's an exploit.
This is also easily combatted yourself by keeping a second BOff available with the correct counter abilities and switching out BOffs yourself.
And just for the record, the mechanic is basically the same with depoyables on my carrier. This is the only way to replace damaged fighters, unless you feel like repairing them one at a time (kind of a waste of a HE, Sci Team or Eng Team). Once the cool down is complete, just switch out to something else, the fighters will despawn, then reload/relaunch them.
I'm in the 7th Core and will defend kek to a point on this issue. I don't have a problem with swapping BO's to different skills based on how the match is progressing. But I do have a problem with people that swap to avoid the cooldowns. Your in a match and getting tractored constantly and your need a skill to break it and your not running it well then you swap to an officer with Polorize Hull or Omega to break the Tractor. Thats fine but when your fighting guys in a 5v5 cracked and they always have a copy of RSP when the come into battle then that is an exploit of the cooldown by swapping.
If it was a true exploit then it would be hotfixed, my guess is it was overlooked by devs, and they are adressing it in the next patch. The same as all the other so called 'exploits' people cry about contunuously.
The fact remains that this function is open to all people without limitation, and can only be done outside of combat. You would be silly not to utilize it when possible. I think people just get upset because they didn't think to use it, and want you to feel guilty for that situation. Its a type of reverse jealousy.
I understand why people cry about things like this, much like all the crying about TSS in the past. Simply because they are not able to utilize the available options as effectively as others, so then they believe it should be an 'exploit'.
The one thing i can't understand why people can't just get over the pride and hurt ego's andjust ask others their tactics and strategies. Maybe most people think that you wont tell them in an act of competitive secrecy. I am sure some don't ask because they don't want to feel inferior somehow....the FACT of the matter is...noneof us know EVERYTHING...we are all constantly learning more and more as we gain experience.
Instead of nerd raging and flaming people over false accusations of 'exploiting'...maybe you should just ask how they do what they do. I am sure not everyone will be forthcoming with their information but you might be surprised...i for one have almost always volunteered information about all my gameplay with whomever asks.
Also:
I pay MY money to play this game each month...and i pay that money to play it MY way...not your way. I play for MY entertainment. And if i am being headhunted in a CnH map by 2 7th core members over and over again, who are stacking rsp, betas, and a number of other things, if i didnt recycle my Boffs each time i died to reset RSP cooldown...i might as well log off cause honestly the only chance i stood was when rsp was up (until it was TSS'ed off) So i do not feel bad in the slightest for resetting a CD each time i died to at least give me half a chance against a 2v1 scenario.
And i am certain that most anyone else who knew how to do it, would aslo. Including you Cartman.
I agree with what most people are saying. Swapping out BOs to have the best abilities to suit your enemy is fine. Swapping out BOs to reset cooldowns is not, and is being fixed in the Tribble build.
Xigent, I don't think anyone has a problem with you specifically. I appreciate everyone's candor (think I spelt that right).
I'm afraid, its out there now, and the practice will probably be exponential now.
Personally, I respect forum people more than just people in-game. I think those who care enough to look at forums, care more about the game than others. Like those people who put in the extra hour at work with no pay.
I agree with you, I often will ask people what they do for my own experience. 99% of the time, people are open to discussion about it and can make some good friends in-game cause of it.
I also got my Fed to RA5 so I could understand my enemy I think if more feds made BG5's, they would understand some of the false accusations made about klinks.
I'm willing to bet, more Klinks understand Tier 5 fed ship limitations and abilities than feds know about klink ships. I know several D.O.B. Klinks, so I think on average they do understand their enemy.
I can't disagree about what's in-game now, how people will use it. More will now. I'll continue to do my behavior of swapping BO's for the current tactical requirements.
The disagreement is now a moral/ethical thing. But keeping in mind more people will be doing it, when does the saying, When in Rome, do as a roman do start to apply.
I'm afraid, its out there now, and the practice will probably be exponential now.
.
Actually I believe its mostly irrelevant now, since the way system and global cooldowns have changed in the update makes this almost entirely useless to reset cooldowns.
Actually I believe its mostly irrelevant now, since the way system and global cooldowns have changed in the update makes this almost entirely useless to reset cooldowns.
Agreed, but this wasn't the patch yet right? It's down for some replicator buy back bug?
This wasn't a personal shot at you Xigent, I was only making a point on RSP CD's. And I'll call it a work around instead of an exploit. The point I'm making is that it was a blatent attempt to avoid the cooldown process that everyone has to deal with when you fire a skill. Since the 1.2 this work around is going to be curved abit so problem solved.
Plus I like the Cartman line. Expecially since I'm leveling Kenny in the U.S.S. South Park right now. Peace dude and I'll see you in the game.
so apparently people who recycle their bridge officers are exploiters now too, so says an unamed escort (kek) from an unamed reputable pvp fleet (7th core). I just think its funny. i mean every semi-decent pvp team i have known recycles their Boffs, and apparently the word on the street is we are ALL exploiters....i dont get it.
I would like to add i am in no way saying anything negavtive about 7th core, alot of those guys are great, and good players to boot....cheers
well this is what i think about that rsp switching. it makes u look altot better then you are bye boosting ur chance to win/score. no one in 7th core swaps out officers to get rsp and we always do great in pvp games.
and you posting this on the forums just makes you look like a high school girl asking for drama
Well with the new patch, the global cooldowns stops an escort from being able to chain RSP. But honestly, firing off RSP right before combat and then swapping BOff to get a fresh copy was exploiting the system and really lame.
Comments
personally, I swap BO's often (out of combat of-course), though with slightly different abilities not really the same ones.
for example, sometimes I will load my sci BO with tractor repulse
i know it's cheesy, but it seems it's kinda easy to push the healing cruiser out of range of his support and kill him
The footprint of a cruiser is kinda large so it just ram his broadside with evasion and Tractor Repulse, just need to get him out of range of HazEmit or Extend Shields
But to the point, i swap BO's all the time.. Don't see it as an exploit,
Global Cooldown is basically there for a reason. What we discussing, abusing the Commander Station? Omega III or CRF III?
My tac slots which i have assigned 2 have simular abilities omega, CRF, HY. granted i could swap, I just find it easier to mash buttons, i swap my sci guys as the game progresses and on what would be helpful
in-fact, i don't even have regular Names for them, Since the ones I swap are in my LT stations the first two abilities is all I care about.
Jam'Sci
Haz'Sci
Sci'Trac
Eng'Rsp
See below, I put myself in combat, can't swap then. So, whats the big deal?
My biggest pain is finding where the abilites went to on my hotbar
I could say somthing about the source about the accusation, but im biased already toward a affiliation you've mentioned, so im geussing that it would be better not to.
Why would we be given so many different officer slots if the intention wasn't for dynamic changes.
Ya a BoP has 4 positions, was one of my active members suppose to die in combat for me to swap in one of the other 9 commissioned? [rhetorical question]
Yikes that's a lot of tac for a BoP
i bet the x2 APO is a throw back to the VM days
Swapping BOFFs for the purpose of resetting the cooldown timer increases the ability's uptime and thus is clearly a circumvention of that intent.
However, the implemented game mechanic does not disallow this practice.
Therefore, IMO, from a sportsmanship perspective, the practice is down at the dark end of the grey area. It's against the spirit of the rules, but not the letter.
From a pragmatic standpoint, there's nothing to be gained by making accusations toward other players, especially those who are already aware of this and choose to engage in the practice anyway. Addressing grievances to the developers could be more useful, but as changes are already in testing that would alter this mechanic (see below), it is unlikely that further comments would have any effect at this point.
From a forward-looking standpoint, the global cooldown system on Tribble will dampen but not curtail the practice of BOFF swapping to reset cooldowns - a player with two RSPs will receive no benefit, as they are already global cooldown-capped. A player with a single copy could still benefit, but stands to gain less, because the global cooldown will still limit frequency to no more than 15/45 seconds (i.e. they won't be able to RSP, run out, swap, and come back in 10 seconds with a fresh copy ready to go). If BOFF-swapping also circumvents the global ability cooldown (I'll have to test that tonight, I suppose), then I'd consider that a likely candidate for a bug.
I believe this is the case now on tribble, you can no longer bypass the global cooldown by swapping out a Bridge officer, only the longer cooldown for the used power.
If it turns out that swappingf BOs resets timers for specials like RSP, or some other very effective/advantage shifting BO special, then it is an exploit.
So even if the powers are slightly different between BOs, swapping to get a particular skill off of cool down sooner is exploiting a weakness or over-sight in the game mechanics.
My reasoning is this:
We're captaining starships, with crews up to (in some cases) thousands of people. We've seen interior modifications made to ships during combat in almost every episode that had it.
We've all seen episodes where an officer on the bridge had to be replaced in the middle of a fight. And it makes sense, that we should be able to order these things to take place; like changing the tachyon emitter arrays of the polaron junction tubes to allow the flow of tetryon particles, or ordering Mr. Crusher to shut up, and get down to sick bay... someone will move immediately to replace him.
So anyway, I've been in favor of hot-swapping (both components and Bridge Officers) during combat, but with an appropriate cool down. (To represent the time it takes to modify a system, or for an officer to get up, be relieved, the new guy signs in to his console, and is available for orders.
Possible cool downs:
Switch a component out: 30 seconds to one minute. A long time in combat. (and of course, it's debatable.)
Switch Bridge Officer: 5 - 10 seconds. -- The replacement is most likely on standby on the bridge, in a position to relieve whoever. All he has to do is walk/run (depending on the size of your bridge) over and sit down.
This would also work for hot-swapping deployables in a carrier.
Well i still like to use them for the dmg buff, but you are partially correct. While one omega is on cooldown the other will be available shortly after the global cooldown.
I just don't like to swap out my tac, maybe my button bar will make it clearer.
What's next? Cloaking or Mask energy signature?
No.. wait.. I got it.. Auto fire is an exploit.. Yup.. Just because I like to not have to emergency power to space bar, it's an exploit..
Or maybe he's saying it's a good thing.. Maybe he's fresh off Ground combat and imagined an orange ring around you.. And then got mad because he couldn't one shot you with his exploit attack..
you go cracked planet or something kill the other team then you swap bo out of combat to refresh timers.. this is lame imo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE-wFopKEnI
Oh, I at least see his point now...
I thought the Cooldown was on the Station+ability, not the BO+Ability. Which is why I had two tac's in thier seats with same/simular ability. Didn't realize you could just get out of combat, swap and have CRFIII and HYIII again. I guess in most cases people doing the RSP reset. It's why I put the image of of my two stage attack cycle, but all with loaded BO's.
Well I can say I never flew out of combat to return right away with fresh spells. I have fled out (tactical retreat
I have mixed feeling, I want to be able to put people in place when I feel I need them, but shouldn't undo the Cooldown cycle.
And I maintain, we should be able to swap out BOffs at any time, including during combat, albeit with a small cool down to represent the time it takes for one BOff to vacate his chair, and another one sit down in his place, and take over his console.
If you're using a separate BOff, then no, I don't think it's an exploit. (The definition being to use a game bug or system to gain an unfair/unplanned advantage. If you were swapping them while IN combat, (even though I think we should be able to do so) then yes, it's an exploit.
This is also easily combatted yourself by keeping a second BOff available with the correct counter abilities and switching out BOffs yourself.
And just for the record, the mechanic is basically the same with depoyables on my carrier. This is the only way to replace damaged fighters, unless you feel like repairing them one at a time (kind of a waste of a HE, Sci Team or Eng Team). Once the cool down is complete, just switch out to something else, the fighters will despawn, then reload/relaunch them.
If it was a true exploit then it would be hotfixed, my guess is it was overlooked by devs, and they are adressing it in the next patch. The same as all the other so called 'exploits' people cry about contunuously.
The fact remains that this function is open to all people without limitation, and can only be done outside of combat. You would be silly not to utilize it when possible. I think people just get upset because they didn't think to use it, and want you to feel guilty for that situation. Its a type of reverse jealousy.
I understand why people cry about things like this, much like all the crying about TSS in the past. Simply because they are not able to utilize the available options as effectively as others, so then they believe it should be an 'exploit'.
The one thing i can't understand why people can't just get over the pride and hurt ego's andjust ask others their tactics and strategies. Maybe most people think that you wont tell them in an act of competitive secrecy. I am sure some don't ask because they don't want to feel inferior somehow....the FACT of the matter is...noneof us know EVERYTHING...we are all constantly learning more and more as we gain experience.
Instead of nerd raging and flaming people over false accusations of 'exploiting'...maybe you should just ask how they do what they do. I am sure not everyone will be forthcoming with their information but you might be surprised...i for one have almost always volunteered information about all my gameplay with whomever asks.
Also:
I pay MY money to play this game each month...and i pay that money to play it MY way...not your way. I play for MY entertainment. And if i am being headhunted in a CnH map by 2 7th core members over and over again, who are stacking rsp, betas, and a number of other things, if i didnt recycle my Boffs each time i died to reset RSP cooldown...i might as well log off cause honestly the only chance i stood was when rsp was up (until it was TSS'ed off) So i do not feel bad in the slightest for resetting a CD each time i died to at least give me half a chance against a 2v1 scenario.
And i am certain that most anyone else who knew how to do it, would aslo. Including you Cartman.
I'm afraid, its out there now, and the practice will probably be exponential now.
Personally, I respect forum people more than just people in-game. I think those who care enough to look at forums, care more about the game than others. Like those people who put in the extra hour at work with no pay.
I agree with you, I often will ask people what they do for my own experience. 99% of the time, people are open to discussion about it and can make some good friends in-game cause of it.
I also got my Fed to RA5 so I could understand my enemy
I'm willing to bet, more Klinks understand Tier 5 fed ship limitations and abilities than feds know about klink ships. I know several D.O.B. Klinks, so I think on average they do understand their enemy.
I can't disagree about what's in-game now, how people will use it. More will now. I'll continue to do my behavior of swapping BO's for the current tactical requirements.
The disagreement is now a moral/ethical thing. But keeping in mind more people will be doing it, when does the saying, When in Rome, do as a roman do start to apply.
I for one appreciate you starting this topic.
Actually I believe its mostly irrelevant now, since the way system and global cooldowns have changed in the update makes this almost entirely useless to reset cooldowns.
Agreed, but this wasn't the patch yet right? It's down for some replicator buy back bug?
Plus I like the Cartman line. Expecially since I'm leveling Kenny in the U.S.S. South Park right now. Peace dude and I'll see you in the game.
No that was last week's patch, this is the big one today.
well this is what i think about that rsp switching. it makes u look altot better then you are bye boosting ur chance to win/score. no one in 7th core swaps out officers to get rsp and we always do great in pvp games.
and you posting this on the forums just makes you look like a high school girl asking for drama