Yes plz do not listen to these ppl when it comes to nerfs.
Last pvp match. I won't use names, but ship class. This was a Cracked planet. FvK and is shows not all ppl
know what the heck they are doing and call for nerfs. I will round off damage.
ship - kills - deaths - damage
escort- 2 - 4 - 9k
crueser- 0 - 4 - 2k
escort - 1 - 3 - 31k
Sci - 1- 3 - 3k
Myself
escort - 7 - 1 - 227k
Ok reason making this post. After the match the one escort with 9k damage starts spamming chat that BOP is over powered and needs a nerf. Plz Cryptic do not listen to ppl like this when they come to the forums and ask for nerfs.
They don't have a clue what they are doing and all they want is pvp to be so nerfed there is nolonger any skill needed.
There must be a way you can keep track of how ppl do in pvp so when they ask for stuff you can check the record and see if they even have any clue what they are doing.
I find this too, some teams seem like thay have no clue and go dowm 0-15 others are more together and
we get our ___ handed to us and then other games its as close as 1 point.
Its less the game and more that ppl just need to learn to play their character...
I'm pretty convinced the devs don't read the PvP forums, or at least don't listen to us. For instance, let's take a snippet from today's State of the Game:
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
I'm pretty convinced the devs don't read the PvP forums, or at least don't listen to us. For instance, let's take a snippet from today's State of the Game:
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
OMG i feel sick. I pvp all the time and most of the ppl i know who do the same are for the most part happy with balance. We all want more pvp content, but that is for another thread.
How in the heck do they know these ppl are high-end unless they can do what i was asking for in my post.
I'm pretty convinced the devs don't read the PvP forums, or at least don't listen to us. For instance, let's take a snippet from today's State of the Game:
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
OMG i feel sick. I pvp all the time and most of the ppl i know who do the same are for the most part happy with balance. We all want more pvp content, but that is for another thread.
How in the heck do they know these ppl are high-end unless they can do what i was asking for in my post.
high level, not high skill.
many of the high skill players are perfectly fine with the system the way it is. most of the low skill players are best sticking to pve.
unfortunately, the low end players don't see it that way. Ultimately it will ruin the game, and a great deal of the population has already sworn off the next patch (including me)
A couple of qualifications: I've been PvPing in STO since closed beta. I really enjoy PvP, I find the challenge of battling players to be much more interesting than the ever-predictable NPCs. This is true in almost any game I've played. (Although I didn't really care for PvP in AoC.) I enjoy PvP for the sake of it being PvP, although some kind of incentive makes it more appealing.
That said, there is no doubt in my mind that 3 second kills are not what was intended by the dev team when they said that combat will resemble "tall ship" combat, with ships jockeying for position, using terrain obstacles and mutually supporting friendly ships with buffs and heals. One of the examples given was the Enterprise/Reliant fight in TWoK.
PvP (or PvE for that matter) just doesn't match that vision. It's not even close. Now, is that a bad thing? Some people enjoy that kind of combat. I, for example, really enjoy FPS games, it's where I started gaming, and I still play them today. In fact, I think many of the systems that are used in games like BF2/2142 could be brought over to an MMO and truly enhance the experience. But... that's not what combat was like in Star Trek. That's not what combat is like in STO. Currently, there is no time to dispatch a damage control team to repair a hull breach, or realign a sensor dish to read tachyon emissions.
What we do is hit a couple of hot keys, and mash the spacebar. It's simply not what I signed up for when I saw Star Trek Online. Again, that doesn't mean that some people don't enjoy it, in fact, I do myself... but it can be much better, much more Star Trek. I truly think that with some changes, we can get closer to what it should be, what it was supposed to be, according to the devs.
That requires constant adjustments, rebalancing, testing.
The point is, we're all supposed to be the heroes here. We're all Captain Picard and General Chang. When they get attacked, they aren't destroyed in 3 seconds. They maneuver, they program attack patterns, they innovate and improvise...
The way the game is designed now does not preclude the kind of combat I'm talking about, but it's going to need adjustment to get there.
In my opinion, a cruiser should be able to soak up the damage a single escort can dish out. I guess it's a difference in my perception of an escort's role. I think of an escort like a modern day destroyer, while a cruiser is analogous to a battleship. A single destroyer can't take down a battleship unless it gets extremely lucky, or unless it works together with other destroyers, or maybe a sub and some fast moving aircraft. In that case, the battleship will be destroyed; unless it cuts and runs. (Which is a wholly valid tactic, in my opinion.)
The sci ship is roughly equal to the Aegis destroyer, using it's technological advantage to assist it's friends, to enhance the bubble of protection that is projected by the battleship and it's outriders.
This is why escorts are called escorts. They're designed to... escort other ships. They're not intended to stand on their own. If they were, they'd call them something else. The problem is that this is a game, and no one wants to have to depend on others to be viable in combat. So what I think happened is that they were artificially inflated beyond their intended capabilities, to where we are now. The changes on Tribble are intended to address this, and in my opinion, absolutely necessary.
Are they the right changes? I won't know until I've seen them live, and seen what individual players will come up with to overcome any perceived shortcomings.
Bottom line Cryptic wants to slow the pace of combat down to current T2 levels......shields and lasers PEWPEW style.
Players that actually excel at playing MMO's particularly in PVP are not their target audience, trekkies that will pay to play anything Star trek related is.
I am sure they realize that if they make the changes they want to make and slow the pace down, the hardcore pvpers will still win against PUG's, although PUG's will now get the "captain KIrk" feeling that they pay to get. "OMFG I just took on 5 of the best PVPers and it took 15+ minutes for the match to end versus the 8 minutes it took previous to 1.2. WOOT I must be an amazing player. I knew stacking RSP would make me great"
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game.
Cryptic I realize that when you are throwing a "welcome back weekend" after being open for 3 months its a tell-tale sign of a dying game but if you wish to keep a wider audience then really tell those that cry for nerf to stay in PVE or get better at PVP.
Ships in star trek get blown up within 3 seconds all the time. And if your heals are off cooldown and you can't heal him within 3 seconds, he deserves to die. 3 seconds is ample time in pvp. Most spikes in games happen within 1 second. And there are people that catch those all the time.
"Players that actually excel at playing MMO's particularly in PVP are not their target audience, trekkies that will pay to play anything Star trek related is.
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."
lol
yeah, make a star trek game that does not appeal to "treekkies" - but to pvp mmo'rs? lol
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."[/I]
lol- thank god. self proclaimed "real pvp players" (lol) are delusional at best. Game would be much stronger without them
"Players that actually excel at playing MMO's particularly in PVP are not their target audience, trekkies that will pay to play anything Star trek related is.
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."
lol
yeah, make a star trek game that does not appeal to "treekkies" - but to pvp mmo'rs? lol
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."[/I]
lol- thank god. self proclaimed "real pvp players" (lol) are delusional at best. Game would be much stronger without them
lol are u serious. the game will be a lot weaker without the good pvp players. they know every move by hearth. they know when to use wich move, they have tested it out. the knowledge of nubs about this game ends at RSP and space bar. the things ive seen bad players yell/cry about are just amazing.
did u know that u can realy arlready get a star trek feeling with the current incarnation of the game. it can be realy slow. u just have to MANUEVRE, DISTRIBUTE SHIELD POWER, REDIRECT POWER TO ..., HIT THE RIGHT BUFF AT THE RIGHT TIME.
do u have any idea how long a descent skilled player can survive on his own. u realy wanne cry over getting nuked in three seconds by multiple ships? u are the lol.
one more little point. u are NOT in a television show, u are actualy playing an mmo. (and u realy should take a look at some DS9 episodes. that might give u a thougt of how fast can realy die, heck it can even give u some knowledge of how fast entire fleets of thousands of ships can die, realy realy realy fast, id say like in 1-3 seconds)
to devs, u realy want to balance pvp better? tweak burst damage a little bit. with little being the operative word
That said, there is no doubt in my mind that 3 second kills are not what was intended by the dev team when they said that combat will resemble "tall ship" combat, with ships jockeying for position, using terrain obstacles and mutually supporting friendly ships with buffs and heals.
And indeed, this is precisely what the news post is talking about: we've been asking for this bug to be fixed ever since it was first introduced about a month ago.
Does anybody else find it really, really funny that back then, when the patch with the bug in it was released, people were saying "oh no this is awful, it's going to kill the game, roll back the patch", and now that the fix to the bug is being released, people are saying "oh no this is awful, it's going to kill the game, roll back the patch"? And also, a little depressing.
It's pretty much a repeat of what we had about rapid fire cannons, as well.
So what I think happened is that they were artificially inflated beyond their intended capabilities, to where we are now. The changes on Tribble are intended to address this, and in my opinion, absolutely necessary.
Nah, nothing so subtle. It's a fix to one notable bug (the critical rates that are making escorts do far more damage than they should), a few relatively minor balance adjustments, and a determined attempt to rationalise a collection of values that were pretty much guesses and should have been rationalised ages ago (but nobody remembered or got around to it) - specifically the recharge and duration times. In the currently live build, recharge/duration times are individually assigned based on what sounded like a reasonable figure at the time. Some of these are right, some are hideously, laughably wrong (nadion inversion, I'm looking at you), and some are not dreadful but also not giving the intended result (engineering team was never meant to be a primary heal, or to be maintained continually). The patch currently in development is replacing the whole lot with a system based on rules so that this variation in wrongness goes away.
The patch is neither complete nor has the right values in it yet. Everybody who has been testing it, and the developer who has been working on it, is aware of this. It is still being updated every few days as players figure out what the problem are. Most of the things being whined about in other parts of the forums are problems that have already been fixed. Most of the rest are things that the developer is currently preparing fixes for. The "escorts must melt faces or it is NGE" crowd are simply insane.
All the people talking about "what the patch will do" have got absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Nobody has seen the finished patch yet, because it is not finished. With a little luck, they will ragequit before they do see it.
Ships in star trek get blown up within 3 seconds all the time. And if your heals are off cooldown and you can't heal him within 3 seconds, he deserves to die. 3 seconds is ample time in pvp. Most spikes in games happen within 1 second. And there are people that catch those all the time.
Of course they do, but my point was that Captain Kirk's ship doesn't, nor does General Chang's. The only ships that blow up in 3 seconds in every book, TV show and movie are the faceless unknowns. We're supposed to be the Kirks and Changs of the galaxy, not the faceless unknowns. We're the heroes of the galaxy. -- Hence the reason that the ships shouldn't blow up so quickly in the game.
All the people talking about "what the patch will do" have got absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Nobody has seen the finished patch yet, because it is not finished.
Heh, you sir, can say in one sentence what I took a book to say, well done.
I'm pretty convinced the devs don't read the PvP forums, or at least don't listen to us. For instance, let's take a snippet from today's State of the Game:
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it why would a high end play scream nerf? Whats happening is these PvE player come PvP and think the can just kill us off the back with no ploan no team and no PvP skills. Half the time they have no idea what my team is doing to the so they can not counter. thats it let them learn let them grow to become better players.
I'm pretty convinced the devs don't read the PvP forums, or at least don't listen to us. For instance, let's take a snippet from today's State of the Game:
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
Now that I've taken a few minutes to look back at last month, it's these threads:
So that "don't read the PvP forums or don't listen to us" line is rubbish. It was right here, and they responded by fixing the issues raised. Perhaps you don't read the PvP forums?
So that "don't read the PvP forums or don't listen to us" line is rubbish. It was right here, and they responded by fixing the issues raised. Perhaps you don't read the PvP forums?
LOL
Three threads: two *****ing about shields not being strong enough and another that points to four specific skills/items, only one of which Cryptic is actually addressing (i.e. TSS).
I make it a policy not to take personal jabs at people, but you just did, so now you're fair game. Quit crying, learn to play, or just give up. PvP is, by nature, competetive. Just because you aren't "the best" and you're trying to assuage a bruised ego by rationalizing a sweeping set of game-changing nerfs doesn't mean that PvP is broken.
You whine about escort critical chance. Easy fix: tweak APA. Instead of taking a few measured steps to balance gameplay, Cryptic has decided to stuff dynamite down an anthill. According to you, space combat dynamics are presently ruled by "a collection of values that were pretty much guesses." I suppose that means all the gameplay and testing to date has been pointless ? Good one.
Instead of adding to the game to make it more fun, the devs are shunting most of their energy into fixing so-called "balance issues" in order to placate the bleating babies of STO. Meanwhile, players continue to walk out the back door because there's nothing fun and meaningful to do once you hit the level cap. Oh wait, I forgot about PvP. Nevermind, they're "fixing" that too...
Your ability to reliably detect which players are "high skill" and then poll them by the thousand is impressive.
newsflash, there aren't thousands of good players in this game. most escorts can't outdamage a healspecced cruiser, most cruiser don't understand that they're not the USS Enterprise. The good ones have spoken, the good ones know the effects.
All the people talking about "what the patch will do" have got absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Nobody has seen the finished patch yet, because it is not finished. With a little luck, they will ragequit before they do see it.
But we do know what we're talking about. The game on tribble is slow. the game is passive, boring, and even more reliant on teamwork. They're not rage quitting because of balance, their ragequitting out of BOREDOM. If they didn't quit out of boredom they would be roflstomping pugs even worse than on holodeck.
Your arguement reminds me a little of GW patches and builds, where people can generally call which builds will affect what with good percision within hours of the patch coming out. New people call BS on it, but guess what, within hours the next FOTM team set up gets created.
newsflash, there aren't thousands of good players in this game. most escorts can't outdamage a healspecced cruiser, most cruiser don't understand that they're not the USS Enterprise.
But that's exactly my point. Cyptic's built this game so that everyone is captaining the Enterprise. We're all billed as the heroes of the Alpha Quadrant. This is the target that they're adjusting to, and the gameplay that they ultimately want. Right or wrong, this is what they intend for the game.
We're simply not supposed to take down an enemy in 3 seconds. Until you understand their vision of the game (whether we agree with it or not), you'll never have any luck influencing the direction of the game.
If you work within the system, within their parameters, then you can start to see some results. Only then can you nudge the combat model in the direction you'd like to see it go, as long as it fits within those basic parameters. Otherwise, you're asking for something they're just not willing to consider.
But we do know what we're talking about. The game on tribble is slow. the game is passive, boring, and even more reliant on teamwork. They're not rage quitting because of balance, their ragequitting out of BOREDOM. If they didn't quit out of boredom they would be roflstomping pugs even worse than on holodeck.
And the answer is to make it fun for everybody, or at least as large a part of the playerbase as possible, where now it's only fun for a select few. If that large part of the playerbase can't figure it out, or for reasons of trying to play within certain self-imposed limits because they want to be as close as possible to Star Trek, then that's what Cryptic's going to do.
They are not going to cater to a small group of players who feel elitist because they learned how to stack the right skills together.
The answer is to make PvP more accessible, with scaleable difficulty and complexity, so the more advanced players can get as complex as they want, and the folks who just want a casual 20 minutes with a USB game controller in PvP can get that too.
I'm going to stick my neck out here and just say that I like the idea of slightly slower paced combat. Mainly because I'm a slow old man, lol.
However, I don't think that nerf bludgeoning all damage is the solution. The possibility of 30 minute 5v5 matches doesn't appeal to me. If they're going to nerf damage as much as it looks like, then in my opinion, they need to remove RSP, or change it to just a big shield resist buff.
In none of my posts have I ever once claimed to be "elite" or even that I'm one of the better PvPers in STO. I'll let my performance in matches speak for itself, whatever the outcome. However, if I'm going to come up against other players, I like it to be challenging. If there's no challenge, what's the point? If there's no motivation to get better, why PvP?
People forget that PvP (in most MMOGs), by nature, precludes the possibility of everyone being "Captain Kirk" simultaneously. If I remember correctly, there was only one Captain Kirk in TOS (unless you count the mirror universe...). Sometimes you have to settle for being Captain Pike, or even Captain Jellico.
Anyway, PvP is competetive, just like any sport. How many sports/games can you think of in which everyone has an equal chance to win, regardless of individual ability? That's why I applaud fleets like D.O.B and . Section 31 . - they're some of the better PvPers I've come up against. If you get rolled by a tight group of good players, it should make you want to improve your style/build. Obviously, if a handful can be at the top, anyone can be.
The funny thing is, nomatter what cryptic does to the game the good pvp players will always kill the clueless ones. So the constant rants to nerf this and nerf that will never stop.
Give both a stick and the one who knows how to use the stick will 98% of the time slaughter the one who does not. Then what is to be done you can't nerf the stick or can u?
Point being even if they gave us all the same skills, ships and so on ppl who have no clue will always die in pvp and run to the forums nerf this and that even if everything was the same for all in skills, ship, weaps and so on.
Who are the high end players? Is there something higher than RA5? Is a RA5 PvPer not the Highest End player? I hope that a RA5 PvE player is not considered "The Highest End" player. Because I have to tell you...A drunk monkey having sex with a flat football can do RA5 high end PvE...
"ALL" PvPers had to do PvE before they could PvP, and most still PvE to a point. Most PvEers "do not" or "have not" PvPed...I understand PvE makes up the bulk of the players in STO but, I blame that on STO for not making it more worthwhile to learn how to PvP. It would be very easy to incorporate PvE schemes into a PvP orientated episode, FvK in a save the disabled ship mission??? I can see it. That would be very challenging indeed.
So "The High End" players would be STO's "most" experienced and "well rounded" players, ie: PvPers. I am not talking about the PvP players that do a couple of PvP Ques and get smoked, than complain about it. I am talking about the players that are doing a 60/40 split or better, PvP vs PvE game playing time. STO should listen to us a little more...we know what we're talking about when it comes to game combat and general play.
By the time we get to RA5 there should be no "easy button" for PvP or PvE and maybe thats the problem. Its to easy to get to the High End game. Toughen up the players in the lower ranks, so when they play with the Big Dogs, they don't get pee'ed on.
So "The High End" players would be STO's "most" experienced and "well rounded" players, ie: PvPers. I am not talking about the PvP players that do a couple of PvP Ques and get smoked, than complain about it. I am talking about the players that are doing a 60/40 split or better, PvP vs PvE game playing time.
So basically all the Klingon players? (I fly a bus, for what it's worth)
The funny thing is, nomatter what cryptic does to the game the good pvp players will always kill the clueless ones. So the constant rants to nerf this and nerf that will never stop.
Give both a stick and the one who knows how to use the stick will 98% of the time slaughter the one who does not. Then what is to be done you can't nerf the stick or can u?
Point being even if they gave us all the same skills, ships and so on ppl who have no clue will always die in pvp and run to the forums nerf this and that even if everything was the same for all in skills, ship, weaps and so on.
So now we get to the meat of what you mean: "good players means just me, do what I say". I hope you didn't think this would be convincing.
Never said that, the game only has a few thousand players, and at that most of the players have not truly dived into pvp. Most players only do enough pvp to satisfy their daily quest requirements, then ***** about balance. There are great players in the game, but there are certainly NOT thousands of good players in the game. The game is not doing as well as you think it is. The playerbase is diminishing weekly, and most of the people leaving are in fact the better players.
Did you read what I wrote? You do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen the finished patch. Because it does not exist yet.
Then by that logic the entire world is sunshine and butterflies. It must be assumed that the patch being described is the current balance. Should the patch change then the balance will change. In all the versions however, the gameplay is slow and boring. We DO know we are talking about because we have seen what the results of doing so in past games have been.
So basically all the Klingon players? (I fly a bus, for what it's worth)
Hate to say it, but most Klinks only decent players (at best, there are still alot of horrible klinks). They just suck less then feds. The average klink pug beats the average fed pug, but the average fed premade roflstomps the average klink premade. Of course you may say that there are some amazing Klink DPS'rs but thats what about 95% of the klink population plays. It is really hard to find a good support player if you play on the klingon side.
Closing words:
Prove me wrong. You can forum war against me all you want, say we don't actually know what we're talking about, throw mud at our reputations. I've honestly stopped caring about what people think about me. I'm helpful if you ask; but when people started calling the good players "elitist" for offering their opinions and giving advice (and SHOWING that they're good), ya, now we have a problem.
When all the good players leave, I guess we would be wrong, because all the crappy players suddenly became better when the competition gets worse. Doesn't change the fact the game is hemorrhaging players at an alarming rate. Sure, the balance team is scrambling to speed up the rate of combat from the godawefully slow tribble version but it doesn't change the fact that they're insisting on using a terrible method to do it.
The playerbase is diminishing weekly, and most of the people leaving are in fact the better players.
And you also have access to the player population numbers that the rest of us don't! Must be nice to be you.
It must be assumed that the patch being described is the current balance
When people are actively working on the patch, with the developers, who are making changes every few days and understand all the current issues and are working on those... no, it is neither necessary nor sane to assume that.
Prove me wrong.
When all you do is spam speculation, nobody can prove anything about it. Speculation can be neither right nor wrong - it's just noise.
many of the high skill players are perfectly fine with the system the way it is. most of the low skill players are best sticking to pve.
unfortunately, the low end players don't see it that way. Ultimately it will ruin the game, and a great deal of the population has already sworn off the next patch (including me)
The whine wins out everytime. I've seen it ruins several cryptic games so far and it skeeves me off.:mad:
Comments
Dont need a brain to spend money
ROFL, thanks for that.. Made my day.
I find this too, some teams seem like thay have no clue and go dowm 0-15 others are more together and
we get our ___ handed to us and then other games its as close as 1 point.
Its less the game and more that ppl just need to learn to play their character...
"We have those DPS/recharge/global-ability-cooldown adjustments that many of our high-end players have been requesting."
Don't believe me? Read for yourselves - http://startrekonline.com/node/1730
OMG i feel sick. I pvp all the time and most of the ppl i know who do the same are for the most part happy with balance. We all want more pvp content, but that is for another thread.
How in the heck do they know these ppl are high-end unless they can do what i was asking for in my post.
high level, not high skill.
many of the high skill players are perfectly fine with the system the way it is. most of the low skill players are best sticking to pve.
unfortunately, the low end players don't see it that way. Ultimately it will ruin the game, and a great deal of the population has already sworn off the next patch (including me)
That said, there is no doubt in my mind that 3 second kills are not what was intended by the dev team when they said that combat will resemble "tall ship" combat, with ships jockeying for position, using terrain obstacles and mutually supporting friendly ships with buffs and heals. One of the examples given was the Enterprise/Reliant fight in TWoK.
PvP (or PvE for that matter) just doesn't match that vision. It's not even close. Now, is that a bad thing? Some people enjoy that kind of combat. I, for example, really enjoy FPS games, it's where I started gaming, and I still play them today. In fact, I think many of the systems that are used in games like BF2/2142 could be brought over to an MMO and truly enhance the experience. But... that's not what combat was like in Star Trek. That's not what combat is like in STO. Currently, there is no time to dispatch a damage control team to repair a hull breach, or realign a sensor dish to read tachyon emissions.
What we do is hit a couple of hot keys, and mash the spacebar. It's simply not what I signed up for when I saw Star Trek Online. Again, that doesn't mean that some people don't enjoy it, in fact, I do myself... but it can be much better, much more Star Trek. I truly think that with some changes, we can get closer to what it should be, what it was supposed to be, according to the devs.
That requires constant adjustments, rebalancing, testing.
The point is, we're all supposed to be the heroes here. We're all Captain Picard and General Chang. When they get attacked, they aren't destroyed in 3 seconds. They maneuver, they program attack patterns, they innovate and improvise...
The way the game is designed now does not preclude the kind of combat I'm talking about, but it's going to need adjustment to get there.
In my opinion, a cruiser should be able to soak up the damage a single escort can dish out. I guess it's a difference in my perception of an escort's role. I think of an escort like a modern day destroyer, while a cruiser is analogous to a battleship. A single destroyer can't take down a battleship unless it gets extremely lucky, or unless it works together with other destroyers, or maybe a sub and some fast moving aircraft. In that case, the battleship will be destroyed; unless it cuts and runs. (Which is a wholly valid tactic, in my opinion.)
The sci ship is roughly equal to the Aegis destroyer, using it's technological advantage to assist it's friends, to enhance the bubble of protection that is projected by the battleship and it's outriders.
This is why escorts are called escorts. They're designed to... escort other ships. They're not intended to stand on their own. If they were, they'd call them something else. The problem is that this is a game, and no one wants to have to depend on others to be viable in combat. So what I think happened is that they were artificially inflated beyond their intended capabilities, to where we are now. The changes on Tribble are intended to address this, and in my opinion, absolutely necessary.
Are they the right changes? I won't know until I've seen them live, and seen what individual players will come up with to overcome any perceived shortcomings.
Players that actually excel at playing MMO's particularly in PVP are not their target audience, trekkies that will pay to play anything Star trek related is.
I am sure they realize that if they make the changes they want to make and slow the pace down, the hardcore pvpers will still win against PUG's, although PUG's will now get the "captain KIrk" feeling that they pay to get. "OMFG I just took on 5 of the best PVPers and it took 15+ minutes for the match to end versus the 8 minutes it took previous to 1.2. WOOT I must be an amazing player. I knew stacking RSP would make me great"
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game.
Cryptic I realize that when you are throwing a "welcome back weekend" after being open for 3 months its a tell-tale sign of a dying game but if you wish to keep a wider audience then really tell those that cry for nerf to stay in PVE or get better at PVP.
+1 to the OP
Ships in star trek get blown up within 3 seconds all the time. And if your heals are off cooldown and you can't heal him within 3 seconds, he deserves to die. 3 seconds is ample time in pvp. Most spikes in games happen within 1 second. And there are people that catch those all the time.
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."
lol
yeah, make a star trek game that does not appeal to "treekkies" - but to pvp mmo'rs? lol
Taking the game down to the lowest common demoninator is Cryptics goal, and when they reach that goal I will be gone along with 99% of the real PVPers in the game."[/I]
lol- thank god. self proclaimed "real pvp players" (lol) are delusional at best. Game would be much stronger without them
lol are u serious. the game will be a lot weaker without the good pvp players. they know every move by hearth. they know when to use wich move, they have tested it out. the knowledge of nubs about this game ends at RSP and space bar. the things ive seen bad players yell/cry about are just amazing.
did u know that u can realy arlready get a star trek feeling with the current incarnation of the game. it can be realy slow. u just have to MANUEVRE, DISTRIBUTE SHIELD POWER, REDIRECT POWER TO ..., HIT THE RIGHT BUFF AT THE RIGHT TIME.
do u have any idea how long a descent skilled player can survive on his own. u realy wanne cry over getting nuked in three seconds by multiple ships? u are the lol.
one more little point. u are NOT in a television show, u are actualy playing an mmo. (and u realy should take a look at some DS9 episodes. that might give u a thougt of how fast can realy die, heck it can even give u some knowledge of how fast entire fleets of thousands of ships can die, realy realy realy fast, id say like in 1-3 seconds)
to devs, u realy want to balance pvp better? tweak burst damage a little bit. with little being the operative word
Your ability to reliably detect which players are "high skill" and then poll them by the thousand is impressive.
And indeed, this is precisely what the news post is talking about: we've been asking for this bug to be fixed ever since it was first introduced about a month ago.
Does anybody else find it really, really funny that back then, when the patch with the bug in it was released, people were saying "oh no this is awful, it's going to kill the game, roll back the patch", and now that the fix to the bug is being released, people are saying "oh no this is awful, it's going to kill the game, roll back the patch"? And also, a little depressing.
It's pretty much a repeat of what we had about rapid fire cannons, as well.
Nah, nothing so subtle. It's a fix to one notable bug (the critical rates that are making escorts do far more damage than they should), a few relatively minor balance adjustments, and a determined attempt to rationalise a collection of values that were pretty much guesses and should have been rationalised ages ago (but nobody remembered or got around to it) - specifically the recharge and duration times. In the currently live build, recharge/duration times are individually assigned based on what sounded like a reasonable figure at the time. Some of these are right, some are hideously, laughably wrong (nadion inversion, I'm looking at you), and some are not dreadful but also not giving the intended result (engineering team was never meant to be a primary heal, or to be maintained continually). The patch currently in development is replacing the whole lot with a system based on rules so that this variation in wrongness goes away.
The patch is neither complete nor has the right values in it yet. Everybody who has been testing it, and the developer who has been working on it, is aware of this. It is still being updated every few days as players figure out what the problem are. Most of the things being whined about in other parts of the forums are problems that have already been fixed. Most of the rest are things that the developer is currently preparing fixes for. The "escorts must melt faces or it is NGE" crowd are simply insane.
All the people talking about "what the patch will do" have got absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Nobody has seen the finished patch yet, because it is not finished. With a little luck, they will ragequit before they do see it.
Of course they do, but my point was that Captain Kirk's ship doesn't, nor does General Chang's. The only ships that blow up in 3 seconds in every book, TV show and movie are the faceless unknowns. We're supposed to be the Kirks and Changs of the galaxy, not the faceless unknowns. We're the heroes of the galaxy. -- Hence the reason that the ships shouldn't blow up so quickly in the game.
Heh, you sir, can say in one sentence what I took a book to say, well done.
I was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it why would a high end play scream nerf? Whats happening is these PvE player come PvP and think the can just kill us off the back with no ploan no team and no PvP skills. Half the time they have no idea what my team is doing to the so they can not counter. thats it let them learn let them grow to become better players.
Now that I've taken a few minutes to look back at last month, it's these threads:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=150842
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=144015
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=156426
So that "don't read the PvP forums or don't listen to us" line is rubbish. It was right here, and they responded by fixing the issues raised. Perhaps you don't read the PvP forums?
LOL
Three threads: two *****ing about shields not being strong enough and another that points to four specific skills/items, only one of which Cryptic is actually addressing (i.e. TSS).
I make it a policy not to take personal jabs at people, but you just did, so now you're fair game. Quit crying, learn to play, or just give up. PvP is, by nature, competetive. Just because you aren't "the best" and you're trying to assuage a bruised ego by rationalizing a sweeping set of game-changing nerfs doesn't mean that PvP is broken.
You whine about escort critical chance. Easy fix: tweak APA. Instead of taking a few measured steps to balance gameplay, Cryptic has decided to stuff dynamite down an anthill. According to you, space combat dynamics are presently ruled by "a collection of values that were pretty much guesses." I suppose that means all the gameplay and testing to date has been pointless ? Good one.
Instead of adding to the game to make it more fun, the devs are shunting most of their energy into fixing so-called "balance issues" in order to placate the bleating babies of STO. Meanwhile, players continue to walk out the back door because there's nothing fun and meaningful to do once you hit the level cap. Oh wait, I forgot about PvP. Nevermind, they're "fixing" that too...
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Your Pal, Indigofyre
newsflash, there aren't thousands of good players in this game. most escorts can't outdamage a healspecced cruiser, most cruiser don't understand that they're not the USS Enterprise. The good ones have spoken, the good ones know the effects.
But we do know what we're talking about. The game on tribble is slow. the game is passive, boring, and even more reliant on teamwork. They're not rage quitting because of balance, their ragequitting out of BOREDOM. If they didn't quit out of boredom they would be roflstomping pugs even worse than on holodeck.
Your arguement reminds me a little of GW patches and builds, where people can generally call which builds will affect what with good percision within hours of the patch coming out. New people call BS on it, but guess what, within hours the next FOTM team set up gets created.
But that's exactly my point. Cyptic's built this game so that everyone is captaining the Enterprise. We're all billed as the heroes of the Alpha Quadrant. This is the target that they're adjusting to, and the gameplay that they ultimately want. Right or wrong, this is what they intend for the game.
We're simply not supposed to take down an enemy in 3 seconds. Until you understand their vision of the game (whether we agree with it or not), you'll never have any luck influencing the direction of the game.
If you work within the system, within their parameters, then you can start to see some results. Only then can you nudge the combat model in the direction you'd like to see it go, as long as it fits within those basic parameters. Otherwise, you're asking for something they're just not willing to consider.
And the answer is to make it fun for everybody, or at least as large a part of the playerbase as possible, where now it's only fun for a select few. If that large part of the playerbase can't figure it out, or for reasons of trying to play within certain self-imposed limits because they want to be as close as possible to Star Trek, then that's what Cryptic's going to do.
They are not going to cater to a small group of players who feel elitist because they learned how to stack the right skills together.
The answer is to make PvP more accessible, with scaleable difficulty and complexity, so the more advanced players can get as complex as they want, and the folks who just want a casual 20 minutes with a USB game controller in PvP can get that too.
However, I don't think that nerf bludgeoning all damage is the solution. The possibility of 30 minute 5v5 matches doesn't appeal to me. If they're going to nerf damage as much as it looks like, then in my opinion, they need to remove RSP, or change it to just a big shield resist buff.
People forget that PvP (in most MMOGs), by nature, precludes the possibility of everyone being "Captain Kirk" simultaneously. If I remember correctly, there was only one Captain Kirk in TOS (unless you count the mirror universe...). Sometimes you have to settle for being Captain Pike, or even Captain Jellico.
Anyway, PvP is competetive, just like any sport. How many sports/games can you think of in which everyone has an equal chance to win, regardless of individual ability? That's why I applaud fleets like D.O.B and . Section 31 . - they're some of the better PvPers I've come up against. If you get rolled by a tight group of good players, it should make you want to improve your style/build. Obviously, if a handful can be at the top, anyone can be.
Give both a stick and the one who knows how to use the stick will 98% of the time slaughter the one who does not. Then what is to be done you can't nerf the stick or can u?
Point being even if they gave us all the same skills, ships and so on ppl who have no clue will always die in pvp and run to the forums nerf this and that even if everything was the same for all in skills, ship, weaps and so on.
"ALL" PvPers had to do PvE before they could PvP, and most still PvE to a point. Most PvEers "do not" or "have not" PvPed...I understand PvE makes up the bulk of the players in STO but, I blame that on STO for not making it more worthwhile to learn how to PvP. It would be very easy to incorporate PvE schemes into a PvP orientated episode, FvK in a save the disabled ship mission??? I can see it. That would be very challenging indeed.
So "The High End" players would be STO's "most" experienced and "well rounded" players, ie: PvPers. I am not talking about the PvP players that do a couple of PvP Ques and get smoked, than complain about it. I am talking about the players that are doing a 60/40 split or better, PvP vs PvE game playing time. STO should listen to us a little more...we know what we're talking about when it comes to game combat and general play.
By the time we get to RA5 there should be no "easy button" for PvP or PvE and maybe thats the problem. Its to easy to get to the High End game. Toughen up the players in the lower ranks, so when they play with the Big Dogs, they don't get pee'ed on.
My 2 credits worth
So now we get to the meat of what you mean: "good players means just me, do what I say". I hope you didn't think this would be convincing.
Did you read what I wrote? You do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen the finished patch. Because it does not exist yet.
So basically all the Klingon players? (I fly a bus, for what it's worth)
This is so true.
Closing words:
Prove me wrong. You can forum war against me all you want, say we don't actually know what we're talking about, throw mud at our reputations. I've honestly stopped caring about what people think about me. I'm helpful if you ask; but when people started calling the good players "elitist" for offering their opinions and giving advice (and SHOWING that they're good), ya, now we have a problem.
When all the good players leave, I guess we would be wrong, because all the crappy players suddenly became better when the competition gets worse. Doesn't change the fact the game is hemorrhaging players at an alarming rate. Sure, the balance team is scrambling to speed up the rate of combat from the godawefully slow tribble version but it doesn't change the fact that they're insisting on using a terrible method to do it.
And you also have access to the player population numbers that the rest of us don't! Must be nice to be you.
When people are actively working on the patch, with the developers, who are making changes every few days and understand all the current issues and are working on those... no, it is neither necessary nor sane to assume that.
When all you do is spam speculation, nobody can prove anything about it. Speculation can be neither right nor wrong - it's just noise.
And when they are not screaming for a nerf, they are accusing you of hacking / exploiting / cheating / etc.
The whine wins out everytime. I've seen it ruins several cryptic games so far and it skeeves me off.:mad: