test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Something I noticed while reading the old Tech manual...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I was perusing the old Starfleet Tecnical Manual (the TNG version) and I was somewhat struck by something in the introduction. Allow me to quote:

"Remember, Star Trek is about people; the technology is merely part of their environment. As Gene points out in his introduction, the real mission of the starship Enterprise is to serve as a vehicle for drama."

- Rick Sternback & Michael Okuda



Why do I point this out?

The reason is that I see an obsession over STUFF in the game. The next ship, the best weapon, the purple gear. As the creators of Star Trek have said, these things aren't the point of Star Trek. It should be more about the drama, the story, and the characters.

I hope the devs will keep this in mind as they continue to build upon an excellent foundation for the game.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Mojo wrote: »
    I was perusing the old Starfleet Tecnical Manual (the TNG version) and I was somewhat struck by something in the introduction. Allow me to quote:

    "Remember, Star Trek is about people; the technology is merely part of their environment. As Gene points out in his introduction, the real mission of the starship Enterprise is to serve as a vehicle for drama."

    - Rick Sternback & Michael Okuda



    Why do I point this out?

    The reason is that I see an obsession over STUFF in the game. The next ship, the best weapon, the purple gear. As the creators of Star Trek have said, these things aren't the point of Star Trek. It should be more about the drama, the story, and the characters.

    I hope the devs will keep this in mind as they continue to build upon an excellent foundation for the game.

    That is what roleplaying is for. Join a fleet and RP your way through the game.

    I just can't see a possible way for true personal drama in a scripted way. Sure it can enhance the RP factor of said drama.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Bracknell wrote:
    That is what roleplaying is for. Join a fleet and RP your way through the game.

    I just can't see a possible way for true personal drama in a scripted way. Sure it can enhance the RP factor of said drama.


    I can do that with a pen and paper RPG ( and have been since 1979 ) and I can do it in an environment that I design without spending $15 a month for the privilege.

    role-playing in a game such as STO and using it as an excuse for playing is just allowing the lazy production to continue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    I can do that with a pen and paper RPG ( and have been since 1979 ) and I can do it in an environment that I design without spending $15 a month for the privilege.

    role-playing in a game such as STO and using it as an excuse for playing is just allowing the lazy production to continue.

    I certainly don't see it that way. This game is destined to become one of the greatest MMOs ever made. It just needs time to grow and to evolve. I am supporting this game 100 %.

    I am from another generation. Being only 25 years old. I prefer this MMORPG. It is just my opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Bracknell wrote:
    I certainly don't see it that way. This game is destined to become one of the greatest MMOs ever made. It just needs time to grow and to evolve. I am supporting this game 100 %.

    I am from another generation. Being only 25 years old. I prefer this MMORPG. It is just my opinion.

    I don't suggest that you don't like it. Just that paying someone else for you to role-play seems odd to me.

    I'm glad you enjoy the game. I think you are very misguided to consider that this game will

    "become one of the greatest MMOs ever made"

    it's already a run of the mill second-rate title with dwindling support. It's run by a company who's own shareholders have given them less than 2 years to perform or they dissolve the company but if this is what you consider quality then who am I to argue?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    I don't suggest that you don't like it. Just that paying someone else for you to role-play seems odd to me.

    Really? So you got all your "Character Sheets" for free? What about the "Monster Manual"? "Player's Handbook"? I assume you didn't pay a dime for the "pencil and paper" either?

    C'mon, beefing on someone because they RP in an mmoRPg?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Really? So you got all your "Character Sheets" for free? What about the "Monster Manual"? "Player's Handbook"? I assume you didn't pay a dime for the "pencil and paper" either?

    C'mon, beefing on someone because they RP in an mmoRPg?

    yeah I got it all for free, apart from the home printing costs.

    you want it all? It's freely downloadable now.

    We used to share it via photocopiers in my day, but times have moved on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Mojo wrote: »
    I was perusing the old Starfleet Tecnical Manual (the TNG version) and I was somewhat struck by something in the introduction. Allow me to quote:

    "Remember, Star Trek is about people; the technology is merely part of their environment. As Gene points out in his introduction, the real mission of the starship Enterprise is to serve as a vehicle for drama."

    - Rick Sternback & Michael Okuda



    Why do I point this out?

    The reason is that I see an obsession over STUFF in the game. The next ship, the best weapon, the purple gear. As the creators of Star Trek have said, these things aren't the point of Star Trek. It should be more about the drama, the story, and the characters.

    I hope the devs will keep this in mind as they continue to build upon an excellent foundation for the game.

    I keep in mind that this is an MMOG. It's been my experience that story isn't exactly high on the list of things needed to keep them running. There's a lot of talk about STUFF on here because that's what people want, that's a part of what keeps them in the game.

    Story can keep me ingame while there's story around, but in an MMOG that becomes an increasingly small portion of the time you'll eventually spend on it, for those other times there's the STUFF.

    i also like the quote in the tech manual. Seems like it's saying the book means nothing but they know that you'll waste upwards of $40 on it anyways so here it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    yeah I got it all for free, apart from the home printing costs.

    you want it all? It's freely downloadable now?

    We used to share it via photocopiers in my day, but times have moved on.

    OHHH so you want him to STEAL instead of pay, I get it now!

    EDIT

    Let these folks know that you enjoyed their free games!
    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And here, dear OP, is the huge problem with that: the ST shows were about the specific stories of the specific crew of the specific ship the show was about. However, the Devs cannot write specific stories about the specific crews of our ships because their all different. STO isnt about one ship and crew, its about...well, however many players there are. The only story the Devs can write is a very general story for each faction, which they are already doing. That said, I do prefer new episodes over new items, and I look forward to the weekly episodes becoming a reality.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Cormoran wrote: »
    I keep in mind that this is an MMOG. It's been my experience that story isn't exactly high on the list of things needed to keep them running. There's a lot of talk about STUFF on here because that's what people want, that's a part of what keeps them in the game.

    Story can keep me ingame while there's story around, but in an MMOG that becomes an increasingly small portion of the time you'll eventually spend on it, for those other times there's the STUFF.

    i also like the quote in the tech manual. Seems like it's saying the book means nothing but they know that you'll waste upwards of $40 on it anyways so here it is.

    this game is no different than pokemon. Obsessive fans will be given the option to collect nonsense within the framework of a 'game' and when it stops generating income over expenditure it will stop.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Glad to see the Nagus here, his thread on Player Gen. Content is right up your ally OP.

    The only way to have the "drama" from the shows, is if you write it yourself. As The Grand points out, the shows were specific to the ship/character (TNG: "Data's Day") Heck, I don't really refer to episodes by their name, but by the character the episode is about.

    "Oh, it's a Worf episode!"

    "Ug, not a Neelix!"

    "Woo! Data!"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    this game is no different than pokemon. Obsessive fans will be given the option to collect nonsense within the framework of a 'game' and when it stops generating income over expenditure it will stop.

    Let me ask you this. Why are even here? Why are you even playing this game when it seems to be so terrible for you?

    Why post on a forum for a game that takes your many and doesn't do anything for you?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    OHHH so you want him to STEAL instead of pay, I get it now!

    EDIT

    Let these folks know that you enjoyed their free games!
    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/

    I'm shifting 5TB a day on my tracker including the latest blockbuster movies. You think I care about some obscure pnp stuff? Worse, do you think that Wizards of the coast care?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Bracknell wrote:
    Let me ask you this. Why are even here? Why are you even playing this game when it seems to be so terrible for you?

    Why post on a forum for a game that takes your many and doesn't do anything for you?


    I hate answering questions with questions but in this case I will.

    Why are you asking me questions about something that you have already made your opinion about yet can have absolutely no valid reason for your assumptions?

    did I discuss the game? Did I say it was terrible? Did I say it does nothing for me? Do you also perform miracles seeing as you are omnipotent and all knowing?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    I hate answering questions with questions but in this case I will.

    Why are you asking me questions about something that you have already made your opinion about yet can have absolutely no valid reason for your assumptions?

    did I discuss the game? Did I say it was terrible? Did I say it does nothing for me? Do you also perform miracles seeing as you are omnipotent and all knowing?

    lol

    Reading your posts gave me an impression which lead me to my questions. If I misinterpreted them I am sorry.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    I'm shifting 5TB a day on my tracker including the latest blockbuster movies. You think I care about some obscure pnp stuff? Worse, do you think that Wizards of the coast care?

    (Last response on this)
    Just because some people do not STEAL to role play, does not make them somehow "less than". I have run RP guilds over 2 MMO's not to mention running the RP sections of 2 more. I have also been a DM for a long time.

    In addition, the RP potential of this game might be enough to quench the OP. Since you did not make the OP, your OPINION on the worthwhile properties of RP is worth as much as you think RPing in a MMO is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    (Last response on this)
    Just because some people do not STEAL to role play, does not make them somehow "less than". I have run RP guilds over 2 MMO's not to mention running the RP sections of 2 more. I have also been a DM for a long time.

    In addition, the RP potential of this game might be enough to quench the OP. Since you did not make the OP, your OPINION on the worthwhile properties of RP is worth as much as you think RPing in a MMO is.

    so we agree that opinions are worthless hmm?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    CraigF wrote: »
    so we agree that opinions are worthless hmm?

    Are they ever! I tried to sell mine the other day, I actually had to pay someone to take it!

    Oh, and I agree with you at the same time as with the RP fellow. This game needs more, I should not have to RP to feel like I am playing a MMO.

    And, for the record (ha! pun!), I don't think anyone is "less than" for 'stealing' (IE Torrents, the Wizards material) <--My worthless opinion :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And here, dear OP, is the huge problem with that: the ST shows were about the specific stories of the specific crew of the specific ship the show was about. However, the Devs cannot write specific stories about the specific crews of our ships because their all different. STO isnt about one ship and crew, its about...well, however many players there are. The only story the Devs can write is a very general story for each faction, which they are already doing. That said, I do prefer new episodes over new items, and I look forward to the weekly episodes becoming a reality.

    Directed at Nagus:
    I think he is more upset about the overall gear and advancement focus of STO as an MMO...

    General Commentary:
    Keep in mind pretty much every MMO is about getting better gear and improving one's ability in the game through the acquisition of stuff. But getting new gear is one of the focuses of MMOs... just like it was one of the focuses of tabletop games... you can't take down harder stuff without getting better equipment and leveling...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well. This is certainly not the direction I was thinking this thread might go.

    I'm not referring to RP or story in and of itself. I'm just saying I hope the game will evolve in a direction that can emphasize character advancement and development over the collection of "stuff."

    From my perspective, a rich and detailed random mission generator that allows for missions within missions, difficult decisions, puzzles and dilemmas would go a log way toward this.

    My favourite mission so far in the game is the one where you have to decide whether to side with the Spy or the (supposedly undine) Captain. You have to make a choice, and that made it interesting. That made it fun.

    For the loot monkeys, they'd be interested in what will give them better rewards. For the RPers, they might choose based on their character's personality. The point is, that option exists. It doesn't exist in any other mission in the game.

    It became about the character, about the story. Not just about loot. That made it STAR TREK.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I'd care more about the game being drama over loot, if the missions were more than click this, shoot that, with wall of text filler.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Mojo wrote: »
    I'm not referring to RP or story in and of itself. I'm just saying I hope the game will evolve in a direction that can emphasize character advancement and development over the collection of "stuff."
    And it is not like that now? I don't know about you, but those cluster missions I run don't give me any "awesome stuff" just some badges and BO points (BO points are used in emphasizing Character Development.)
    Mojo wrote: »
    From my perspective, a rich and detailed random mission generator that allows for missions within missions, difficult decisions, puzzles and dilemmas would go a log way toward this.
    I agree, but since it does not exist we have to make due with what is called "adapting", at least until something is implemented. And, as it stands, we do have a rich and detailed random mission generator. The problem is the choices the generator has to choose from, not beefing just clarifying.
    Mojo wrote: »
    My favourite mission so far in the game is the one where you have to decide whether to side with the Spy or the (supposedly undine) Captain. You have to make a choice, and that made it interesting. That made it fun.
    Can't say I have done this one yet, though I tend to skip "main missions" due to their length (time wise). However, I can see what you are saying. Considering I have had no other mission that had a "choice" other than "Do I press "F" or just stand here looking pretty?"
    Mojo wrote: »
    For the loot monkeys, they'd be interested in what will give them better rewards. For the RPers, they might choose based on their character's personality. The point is, that option exists. It doesn't exist in any other mission in the game.
    Alright, I have to ask. How can anyone be a "loot monkey" (nice term) in this game? I am lucky if a kill nets me anything, and even luckier if it isn't a battery. And, I don't know about you, but I don't consider 20 engine batteries "loot", maybe "junk".
    Mojo wrote: »
    It became about the character, about the story. Not just about loot. That made it STAR TREK.
    Well, that isn't entirely true. If any federation ship encounters loot covered in Omega molecules... <--That's a joke son, a joke I say.

    Unfortunately, with an MMO we have to take into consideration that others are also playing. And what I find "Star Trek" or "Fun" is going to be another persons "Star Wars" and "Boring". Honestly, if you are having a less than fun time, you should at least try RP. Then, in my opinion, you would have more ground in these complaints, because you would have tried all avenues of repair. (Avenues that you drive, not DEVs)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Mojo wrote: »
    I was perusing the old Starfleet Tecnical Manual (the TNG version) and I was somewhat struck by something in the introduction. Allow me to quote:

    "Remember, Star Trek is about people; the technology is merely part of their environment. As Gene points out in his introduction, the real mission of the starship Enterprise is to serve as a vehicle for drama."

    - Rick Sternback & Michael Okuda



    Why do I point this out?

    The reason is that I see an obsession over STUFF in the game. The next ship, the best weapon, the purple gear. As the creators of Star Trek have said, these things aren't the point of Star Trek. It should be more about the drama, the story, and the characters.

    I hope the devs will keep this in mind as they continue to build upon an excellent foundation for the game.

    That is the difference between a TV show which relies on drama for the story to function and a MMO which does not need just drama, but a sense of accomplishment to satisfy the players need to immerse oneself into a game.
    I for one love a good background storyline, but find little need to learn the viewpoints, feelings or personal interactions of my mindless NPC crew members. Though a certain level of personality (aka ME2) in the BO's would be nice to have, as well as minigames and choices that effect future gameplay.
Sign In or Register to comment.