Below are changes that came into Tribble, Absolutly game breaking mechanics soley for the purpose of balancing PVP. These changes are going to absolutly be game breaking in PVE.
Balancing end game? No not really cryptic, you are taking a easy way to balance PVP. Yet again another game that breaks PVE content for the purpose of balancing PVP.
snix
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: May 2009 DPS Changes Incoming on Tribble
Greetings all,
We've been working on improving the end-game and overall DPS balance issues and we have several changes that should appear on Tribble this weekend. The overall focus was to lower some of the burst damage and slow the pace of space combat back to its original intent.
Thanks for your patience and have fun playing with the new stuff!
-snix
Weapon Energy Drain Mechanic
The energy drain mechanic when firing energy weapons has changed. Weapon Power drain is now instantly refunded at the end of a weapons firing cycle, instead of a slow return as was previously implemented. Multiple weapons being firing at the same time will still produce a significant drain and will affect their damage proportionately, but once the weapons stop firing the weapon power level will immediately return to normal.
This change was made due to negative player feedback on firing multiple energy weapons and draining away all power after successive bursts, and how EPS consoles were interacting with the energy drain mechanic. Players may now fire all of their energy weapons repeatedly burst after burst, but the damage for each weapon is still diminished during the firing cycle.
EPS consoles were originally intended as an option to improve the transfer rate of energy between systems. Their magnitude for this purpose has been adjusted accordingly. The interaction of EPS consoles with the energy drain mechanic was producing unintended results, allowing ships with the consoles stacked to fire at near maximum power continually while ships without the consoles suffered a significant loss in DPS due to weapon drain. With the new system, energy weapon DPS is more consistent among all players while the EPS consoles still provide a role during power transfer.
Um? really so your nerfing cruisers even more? great... yes i want to have cannons on my slow boat cruiser...... thanks cryptic.
Narrow Arc Multiplier
Cannons receive a narrow firing arc multiplier to their damage. The multiplier bonus was to offset the extra difficult of keeping a target in arc, as opposed to a wide arc weapon such as a beam. From play experience, the bonus granted vs. the difficulty of ships that mainly use cannons keeping a target in arc was weighed and found to be excessive. This bonus has now been reduced such that cannons still deliver more damage than beams, but the difference is more in line with the added challenge of keeping the target in arc.
Damage Type Tactical Consoles
The damage type tactical consoles (such as bonus phaser damage) have been reduced in magnitude to match consoles that grant a bonus to a weapon type (such as bonus beam damage). This change was made to reduce end game damage slightly, as well as provide more choice for the player to either augment a damage type or a weapon type equally, without feeling like the choice would be diminishing their maximum potential. Are you serious cryptic? there is a difference between damage types and weapon types. Why would you get the same bonus for SPECIALIZING in one damage type? It is correct as is. You get some bonus for all types of damage if you use "cannons" but if you specialize and use Plasma cannons and have Plasma tactical consoles you should get MORE of a bonus. You are not balancing end game you areadly dont even have enough consoles in the loot table. Yet now you are nerfing them even further
Excessive Critical Hits
It was determined that Attack Pattern Alpha was out of line in the amount of critical hit chance and severity that it was granting. These values were reduced.
Ability Stacking and Duration vs. Recharge
Significant changes have been made to ability stacking and the recharge duration ratios of abilities. Abilities now have smaller system shared cooldowns (15 seconds for most) but a larger global ability cooldown that affects all versions of that ability across all officers (using Engineering Team I puts all Engineering Team abilities into a global ability cooldown). This global ability cooldown is 2:3 of the abilitys recharge time, which means that slotting two copies of the same ability is helpful in that it can be used more frequently, but the same ability will no longer be able to be stacked by a single player.
Duration vs. Recharge is related to the ability stacking issue. Each ability now conforms to a Duration/Recharge category (1-5), which indicates the ratio between its duration and recharge values.
Category 1 has a 2:3 ratio (duration to recharge)
Category 2 has a 1:3 ratio
Category 3 has a 1:6 ratio
Category 4 has a 1:9 ratio
Category 5 has a 1:12 ratio
Note that Category 1 abilities have a ratio that matches the global ability cooldown, which means that these abilities can have a 100% uptime if two copies of the same ability are slotted.
Again just to balance PVP, and the only reason you are doing this is RSP. Again breaking PVE for PVP
Subsystem Debuff Stacking
The debuff power level drain caused by subsystem targeting attacks on the same system will no longer stack. Only the most powerful drain debuff will apply at any one time, but the other debuffs are still active should the most powerful drains duration expire.
For example:
If three subsystem target shield debuffs (-30, -40, -50) were applied to a single ship, only the -50 debuff would apply while the other two debuffs would remain on the starship for their durations. Should the -50 expire before the other two, the -40 would then apply and so on. Breaking PVE for PVP...............
Starship Power Level Bonuses
Some starships have received an adjustment to their innate power levels.
Cruisers now gain a +5 to each system (Weapons, Shields, Engines, Auxiliary)
Battlecruisers now gain a +10 to Weapons and Engines
Raiders, Raptors, and Escorts now gain a +15 to Weapons
Carriers now gain a +5 to Weapons and Auxiliary
Science Vessels retain their +10 to Auxiliary
Basicaly cryptic if you put these changes into the live server you are breaking your game, this game is already rated as one of the lowest MMOs (can we call it a MMO?) stop breaking the game for PVP, right now all of these Incoming changes are not needed, the game is finely balanced in PVE, but now you are going to nerf the ability to damage and stay alive in PVE, and when Elite STFs get released there will be no way now to complete them as you nerfed DPS, survivabilty, Energy, and the ability to use different Tiered skills.
These changes are starting to show up on other boards and most of the comments are negative. Not really what you need during a subscriber push Cryptic.
Have you actually tried the changes on tribble yet? I did some PvE combat in the B'tran cluster and my cruiser's performance was pretty much exactly the same as it is on live... but without having to use a single EPS console...
The patch notes make the changes sound completely game changing, but if you try them out for yourself, you'll notice they are actually pretty subtle...
Have you actually tried the changes on tribble yet? I did some PvE combat in the B'tran cluster and my cruiser's performance was pretty much exactly the same as it is on live... but without having to use a single EPS console...
The patch notes make the changes sound completely game changing, but if you try them out for yourself, you'll notice they are actually pretty subtle...
But that takes more effort than writing a long exaggerated post.
These changes are starting to show up on other boards and most of the comments are negative. Not really what you need during a subscriber push Cryptic.
Even if most posts about it are negative it's still a minority of players posting.
These changes are soft compared to the cooldown and power category reorganization that is taking place. That's the meat of what's changing and will affect everyone and affect playstyle dramatically.
This stuff? Most of it isn't what it seems. And if you're in a cruiser ... these changes are ... debatable that they even change much. In PVP or PVE.
The cooldowns and everything now being put in specific categories ... that stuff? That stuff means you will have to choose some different BOFF powers most likely. You will have to reallocate BOFF skill points. And possibly use powers you never even used before which might mean some changing of your own captain spec. And you captain powers now share cooldowns with your BOFF skills, which means you have to again re-evaluate everything. Playstyles will have to change. And that's going to be HUGE and probably be the real focus of the negative feedback.
EPS nerfs? Nah. People should be used to those by now.
Totally re-doing your entire BOFF layout? That's gonna tick people off.
The only part of any of that I take issue with is the damage type console change, which is also the only change on that entire list that legitimately warrants nerdrage. Your point is basically dead on on that subject; umbrella bonuses should not ever be the same magnitude as single bonuses, else suddenly there's no point in having unique consoles for each type. It's stupid and needs to be changed back.
Everything else sounds harmless, though reading the cooldown changes is like me reading Klingon, so I could be missing something.
though reading the cooldown changes is like me reading Klingon, so I could be missing something.
That thread has a LOT of changes. A LOT to take in. A LOT to test. It is daunting. There are some very fundamental changes to gameplay that are going to happen with those changes.
I can focus in on some aspects of it and think "yeah, ok, that change to miracle worker is nice" but ... it's all linked together. Which means there's a butterfly effect. And so ...
Totally re-doing your entire BOFF layout? That's gonna tick people off.
I disagree. Having to swap BOFFS around doesn't fundamentally change the pace of the game. It's a given that some power would become better or worse as time goes on and players and developers discover more about the specifics of the game.
An across the board nerf to damage, especially the drastic EPS changes (with no counter balance), will simply make space combat sluggish and the game more tedious.
It looks to me like an effort to slow the game down, to address the complaints by players that there's nothing to do at the end of the game. Balance is one thing. Deliberately hamstringing the game to make it last longer? No way.
You think I'll be grinding merits at RA5? I'll be playing something different.
Just reminding.
People here tend to conveniently "forget" that you can still respec with in game currency.
Dunno why... Maybe they get intoxicated by the wine. And then the next day you got a big splat of yesterdays dinner on the carpet... Ick.
I disagree. Having to swap BOFFS around doesn't fundamentally change the pace of the game. It's a given that some power would become better or worse as time goes on and players and developers discover more about the specifics of the game.
It's more than just that. You have to switch your BOFFs around because the layout you were using no longer works. You carry 3 RSPs? You can't anymore. Cooldown prohibits that.
You trying to use hazard emitters and the shield heal on a teammate? Gotta rethink that strategy.
Tyken's Rift III?
Attack Pattern buff stacking?
TSS stacking from you and other sources?
It's all changing. Everything's reorganized. Most things are on shared cooldowns that are at odds with other powers you may want to use. Your favorite captain powers now can lock you out of other BOFF powers you like. And a ton of long cooldown powers got shorter cooldowns, but consequently shorter cooldowns got extended.
Everything is different in function. It's a radical shift in the choices you make, the buttons you push and when you can push them.
God I hate to open this pandora's box, but ... the changes in this patch are sweeping enough and affect enough powers, skills, setups, ships, builds and choices ... that a free respec would be something the playerbase could lobby for with just cause.
But the caveat is ... none of this is live yet. And is still just being tested.
Every game I've ever played which had both PvE and PvE has undergone constant changes to keep PvP balance. That goes for the 6 year-old WoW all the way to the three month-old STO. Nothing new here.
Every game I've ever played which had both PvE and PvE has undergone constant changes to keep PvP balance. That goes for the 6 year-old WoW all the way to the three month-old STO. Nothing new here.
Boggles the mind.
Anyways... Guild Wars did it right.
Skills are different depending on if its PvE or PvP you are doing.
I'll definitely have to test once it goes live. One part of my strategy was Attack Patterns Alpha and Omega, and I was planning on adding Beta to that list. I probably still will, but from the sound of this I won't be stacking them anymore. Instead, I'll actually have to think about how to use them, and when.
Hazard Emitters and a shield buff on the same cooldown... that could prove troublesome. My poor Advanced Escort might not like that. But I don't, or more acurately am incapable of and do not wish to, play on difficulty harder than Advanced, so this hopefully won't be too painful.
At the very least, this has helped me decide to postpone my third alt until my main and secondary have had their chance to adapt.
God I hate to open this pandora's box, but ... the changes in this patch are sweeping enough and affect enough powers, skills, setups, ships, builds and choices ... that a free respec would be something the playerbase could lobby for with just cause.
I don't believe Cryptic is shy about giving out Respecs if a change warrants it.
And is still just being tested.
That's the major point; and something anyone who's ever done any type of Playtesting understands. Things are tested for the precise reason of trying to determine if they work. If Cryptic simply wanted to do it they'd just implement the changes and leave it at that. We test to find the sweet-spot between "no way" and "could be good."
Cryptic, do this and kill your game simple as that.
This patch will be the end of STO if it goes live.
After putting up with BS like waiting around for content and half assed STFs this will be the last nail in the coffin. I know my account will most likely be canceled if this goes live.
I have way too much on my plate Have still to finish Bioshock 2, Mass Effect 2. Still got an unfinished character in Dragon Age Origins and Awakening. I started playing Champions Online yesterday but I'll be capped out in a week at most. Still got Pole Position 10, Settlers 7 to install on top of Warhammer, DDO, WOW and LOTRO active accounts. I barely have time to drink beer as well
The part that aggrivates me is the tactical damage consoles. They think they're making it so players now have more options in weapon types vs. energy types. If that change goes in, they actually make it LESS of a choice. Players will need to spec out in only one energy type, and max it with full consoles to make up for the decrease in points that the consoles give, in order to really maximize damage output. Current system, you can get away with splitting points between energy types, because the consoles give added boost.
Besides, it's only natural that the weapon type consoles give less reward... the skills themselves are less rewarding for maxing out! Maybe if the energy types didn't have such cost at later levels, or better effects for the higher tier types, THEN it would be in line. But as the change stands, it will make even less sense to spec in the higher tier energy types at all.
The main problem with the big change I see here, that people actually need to use their brains when fighting...
It was easier before, just running around killing everything with 1 or 2 cannonvolleys. Now you might have to think about tactics and stuff... and oh my god, yes, you need to think about... oh no bad bad word... defenses...
Ugh thats horrible...
I can just imagine how the DPS-Junkees are sitting infront of their USS Pew Pew and thinking.... WTF... Instead of Weaponsconsoles and stuff that throws all my power to my pew-pew's I need to consider some resistance platings or even a console for shield power...
That cant be right. Just imagine Cryptic you force people to actually change their gameplay. No more, I-kill-you-with-one-shot-so-I-dont-need-any-defensive-systems...
I have way too much on my plate Have still to finish Bioshock 2, Mass Effect 2. Still got an unfinished character in Dragon Age Origins and Awakening. I started playing Champions Online yesterday but I'll be capped out in a week at most. Still got Pole Position 10, Settlers 7 to install on top of Warhammer, DDO, WOW and LOTRO active accounts. I barely have time to drink beer as well
I'd like to make a suggestion that might speed you along to those many awesome games you've got lined up.
Stop posting here.
And I'm being serious.
You could be playing many great games. Enjoying BoiWare stories, playing old, established MMO's what aren't in danger of breaking anytime soon, heck, even getting drunk.
Instead? You come here and act borderline ego-maniacal. Your time could be so much better spent.
Makes me wonder if there isn't some spark of hope deep inside your cynical heart that this game may still be worth your time, and by God, I hope that spark is right.
The changes look a lot worse in text than they actually are in game..
Nah... that would require work... its so much more fun just to join in the bashing and flaming and its easier. Who gives a damn about how it looks on the gameplay. It sounds horrible on the paper so it MUST be horrible
I do not PvP, I dislike the attitude that most "hardcore" PvP players adopt, thinking that the entire game is all about getting to PvP, that all the players exist solely to be content for the PvPers, and that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their way of thinking is a complete non-factor in every way.
Because I don't PvP, I have to look at what this is going to do to PvE. As it stands, if I try to play higher difficulty levels in PvE as an escort, I already have trouble staying alive. It doesn't matter if I'm flying solo or in a group, if I get more than 2 ships shooting at me, I'm dead. My only counter for that has always been my ability to kill the other ships before they kill me, but Cryptic is now taking that away by reducing the overall power available to my weapons, reducing their crit chance, and the most damning thing, reducing the base damage for my dual cannons (note: I do not fly with dual heavy cannons, I perfer consistant DPS over spike DPS).
Now combine that with all the new linked abilities, longer cooldowns, global cooldowns, and the rest of the mess Cryptic just put on Tribble, and even when I'm in a group with people spec'd for healing, I'm STILL going to die A LOT because my teammates will no longer be capable of healing me nearly as well as before these changes. I'm going to go from flying glass cannon to flying tissue paper.
I DO NOT support any of the changes on Tribble right now. Space is fine as-is. If you really want to balance PvP, then all you need to do is link the reverse shield polarity abilities, reduce the critical hit chance on cannons and attack patterns, and LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE!
Comments
These changes are starting to show up on other boards and most of the comments are negative. Not really what you need during a subscriber push Cryptic.
The patch notes make the changes sound completely game changing, but if you try them out for yourself, you'll notice they are actually pretty subtle...
Really... It's not as bad as it sounds.
Even if most posts about it are negative it's still a minority of players posting.
Actualy wasnt that long since the majority was copy and pasted from cryptic.:)
These changes are soft compared to the cooldown and power category reorganization that is taking place. That's the meat of what's changing and will affect everyone and affect playstyle dramatically.
This stuff? Most of it isn't what it seems. And if you're in a cruiser ... these changes are ... debatable that they even change much. In PVP or PVE.
The cooldowns and everything now being put in specific categories ... that stuff? That stuff means you will have to choose some different BOFF powers most likely. You will have to reallocate BOFF skill points. And possibly use powers you never even used before which might mean some changing of your own captain spec. And you captain powers now share cooldowns with your BOFF skills, which means you have to again re-evaluate everything. Playstyles will have to change. And that's going to be HUGE and probably be the real focus of the negative feedback.
EPS nerfs? Nah. People should be used to those by now.
Totally re-doing your entire BOFF layout? That's gonna tick people off.
Everything else sounds harmless, though reading the cooldown changes is like me reading Klingon, so I could be missing something.
That thread has a LOT of changes. A LOT to take in. A LOT to test. It is daunting. There are some very fundamental changes to gameplay that are going to happen with those changes.
I can focus in on some aspects of it and think "yeah, ok, that change to miracle worker is nice" but ... it's all linked together. Which means there's a butterfly effect. And so ...
Yeah. That thread's the more important one.
I disagree. Having to swap BOFFS around doesn't fundamentally change the pace of the game. It's a given that some power would become better or worse as time goes on and players and developers discover more about the specifics of the game.
An across the board nerf to damage, especially the drastic EPS changes (with no counter balance), will simply make space combat sluggish and the game more tedious.
It looks to me like an effort to slow the game down, to address the complaints by players that there's nothing to do at the end of the game. Balance is one thing. Deliberately hamstringing the game to make it last longer? No way.
I hear from tribble that escort cannon specs are now tickling the enemy. Looks like another respec then. Oh wait, I have to pay for that?
You think I'll be grinding merits at RA5? I'll be playing something different.
People here tend to conveniently "forget" that you can still respec with in game currency.
Dunno why... Maybe they get intoxicated by the wine. And then the next day you got a big splat of yesterdays dinner on the carpet... Ick.
It's more than just that. You have to switch your BOFFs around because the layout you were using no longer works. You carry 3 RSPs? You can't anymore. Cooldown prohibits that.
You trying to use hazard emitters and the shield heal on a teammate? Gotta rethink that strategy.
Tyken's Rift III?
Attack Pattern buff stacking?
TSS stacking from you and other sources?
It's all changing. Everything's reorganized. Most things are on shared cooldowns that are at odds with other powers you may want to use. Your favorite captain powers now can lock you out of other BOFF powers you like. And a ton of long cooldown powers got shorter cooldowns, but consequently shorter cooldowns got extended.
Everything is different in function. It's a radical shift in the choices you make, the buttons you push and when you can push them.
Compared to a console nerf?
But the caveat is ... none of this is live yet. And is still just being tested.
Anyways... Guild Wars did it right.
Skills are different depending on if its PvE or PvP you are doing.
I'll definitely have to test once it goes live. One part of my strategy was Attack Patterns Alpha and Omega, and I was planning on adding Beta to that list. I probably still will, but from the sound of this I won't be stacking them anymore. Instead, I'll actually have to think about how to use them, and when.
Hazard Emitters and a shield buff on the same cooldown... that could prove troublesome. My poor Advanced Escort might not like that. But I don't, or more acurately am incapable of and do not wish to, play on difficulty harder than Advanced, so this hopefully won't be too painful.
At the very least, this has helped me decide to postpone my third alt until my main and secondary have had their chance to adapt.
That's the major point; and something anyone who's ever done any type of Playtesting understands. Things are tested for the precise reason of trying to determine if they work. If Cryptic simply wanted to do it they'd just implement the changes and leave it at that. We test to find the sweet-spot between "no way" and "could be good."
This patch will be the end of STO if it goes live.
After putting up with BS like waiting around for content and half assed STFs this will be the last nail in the coffin. I know my account will most likely be canceled if this goes live.
The power issue didn't see to be a big deal nor was the cannon damage a big loss...
The powers/cooldown thing... that was a pain. I wasn't even double stacking and it was still an issue. They really need to reevaluate these changes.
I have way too much on my plate
surely that's not a big loss to you? How's it going to affect me with a face full of DHC?
Besides, it's only natural that the weapon type consoles give less reward... the skills themselves are less rewarding for maxing out! Maybe if the energy types didn't have such cost at later levels, or better effects for the higher tier types, THEN it would be in line. But as the change stands, it will make even less sense to spec in the higher tier energy types at all.
It was easier before, just running around killing everything with 1 or 2 cannonvolleys. Now you might have to think about tactics and stuff... and oh my god, yes, you need to think about... oh no bad bad word... defenses...
Ugh thats horrible...
I can just imagine how the DPS-Junkees are sitting infront of their USS Pew Pew and thinking.... WTF... Instead of Weaponsconsoles and stuff that throws all my power to my pew-pew's I need to consider some resistance platings or even a console for shield power...
That cant be right. Just imagine Cryptic you force people to actually change their gameplay. No more, I-kill-you-with-one-shot-so-I-dont-need-any-defensive-systems...
Its a disaster
/sarcasm off
Oh boy
I'd like to make a suggestion that might speed you along to those many awesome games you've got lined up.
Stop posting here.
And I'm being serious.
You could be playing many great games. Enjoying BoiWare stories, playing old, established MMO's what aren't in danger of breaking anytime soon, heck, even getting drunk.
Instead? You come here and act borderline ego-maniacal. Your time could be so much better spent.
Makes me wonder if there isn't some spark of hope deep inside your cynical heart that this game may still be worth your time, and by God, I hope that spark is right.
How about you log into tribble and find out?
The changes look a lot worse in text than they actually are in game..
Nah... that would require work... its so much more fun just to join in the bashing and flaming and its easier. Who gives a damn about how it looks on the gameplay. It sounds horrible on the paper so it MUST be horrible
You obviously don't fly an escort of any kind.
I do not PvP, I dislike the attitude that most "hardcore" PvP players adopt, thinking that the entire game is all about getting to PvP, that all the players exist solely to be content for the PvPers, and that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their way of thinking is a complete non-factor in every way.
Because I don't PvP, I have to look at what this is going to do to PvE. As it stands, if I try to play higher difficulty levels in PvE as an escort, I already have trouble staying alive. It doesn't matter if I'm flying solo or in a group, if I get more than 2 ships shooting at me, I'm dead. My only counter for that has always been my ability to kill the other ships before they kill me, but Cryptic is now taking that away by reducing the overall power available to my weapons, reducing their crit chance, and the most damning thing, reducing the base damage for my dual cannons (note: I do not fly with dual heavy cannons, I perfer consistant DPS over spike DPS).
Now combine that with all the new linked abilities, longer cooldowns, global cooldowns, and the rest of the mess Cryptic just put on Tribble, and even when I'm in a group with people spec'd for healing, I'm STILL going to die A LOT because my teammates will no longer be capable of healing me nearly as well as before these changes. I'm going to go from flying glass cannon to flying tissue paper.
I DO NOT support any of the changes on Tribble right now. Space is fine as-is. If you really want to balance PvP, then all you need to do is link the reverse shield polarity abilities, reduce the critical hit chance on cannons and attack patterns, and LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE!